To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

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You might need more dopamine ;) Seriously in studies, those of higher religious beliefs have shown much higher levels of dopamine in their brain than non believers.

The studies of vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2) are also quite interesting.

"Monoaminergic systems, i.e., the networks of neurons that utilize monoamine neurotransmitters, are involved in the regulation of cognitive processes such as emotion, arousal, and certain types of memory."

It's commonly believed that excess dopamine and to some extant seratonin play a huge part in schizophrenia. I take risperdal which is a pretty hardcore anti-psychotic and it blocks a lot of that in me so I don't hear voices or get paranoid. I know that logically speaking when Jesus appeared to me it was a hallucination brought on by the chemical imbalance in my brain but it really affected me and I took it to heart that when he said everything would be okay it would. Who is to say that the small percentage of the population who suffers from these mental illnesses aren't the ones who are somehow in contact with another dimension or God?
 
It's commonly believed that excess dopamine and to some extant seratonin play a huge part in schizophrenia. I take risperdal which is a pretty hardcore anti-psychotic and it blocks a lot of that in me so I don't hear voices or get paranoid. I know that logically speaking when Jesus appeared to me it was a hallucination brought on by the chemical imbalance in my brain but it really affected me and I took it to heart that when he said everything would be okay it would. Who is to say that the small percentage of the population who suffers from these mental illnesses aren't the ones who are somehow in contact with another dimension or God?

First: Someone was asking for the Harris/Dawkins video and likely was referring to this one:



As for your question, as one that believes in the natural world... the idea that we could be within it and also be in contact with another dimension at the same time is rather difficult. If that percentage who succumbs to hallucinations can only do so when their brain is chemically imbalanced, I would tend to believe it is more of a condition than a connection.
 
Well I believe in the multui-verse, or M-theory if you will, and I also believe that the being we try to envision as "God" is in fact the mutli-verse
 
It's commonly believed that excess dopamine and to some extant seratonin play a huge part in schizophrenia. I take risperdal which is a pretty hardcore anti-psychotic and it blocks a lot of that in me so I don't hear voices or get paranoid. I know that logically speaking when Jesus appeared to me it was a hallucination brought on by the chemical imbalance in my brain but it really affected me and I took it to heart that when he said everything would be okay it would. Who is to say that the small percentage of the population who suffers from these mental illnesses aren't the ones who are somehow in contact with another dimension or God?

I've always believed this. I used to take medications like you Deej, but lately I've been able to take almost (I still have moments :hehe: All have sinned, all fall short as they say) full control over this through meditation and prayer and it's been pretty wonderful. Plus some things are happening that I feel have been kind of preordained, but still falling into place, and it's just a crazy awesome roller coaster man.

Come to think of it, this has truly been a really blessed Easter for me. Even though I don't go to church anymore, because of my honest, open relationship while maintaining my true self—not a representation of myself as I think people would want to see me—before God is just such a miraculous thing to me.

Wow.
 
I've always believed this. I used to take medications like you Deej, but lately I've been able to take almost (I still have moments :hehe: All have sinned, all fall short as they say) full control over this through meditation and prayer and it's been pretty wonderful. Plus some things are happening that I feel have been kind of preordained, but still falling into place, and it's just a crazy awesome roller coaster man.

Come to think of it, this has truly been a really blessed Easter for me. Even though I don't go to church anymore, because of my honest, open relationship while maintaining my true self—not a representation of myself as I think people would want to see me—before God is just such a miraculous thing to me.

Wow.

Ya I tried going off my meds once and after a couple of weeks I started getting really paranoid (thinking the roommates were witches and trying to poison me), and then the voices started coming back. So even though the meds are hardcore I have to take them. One thing that irritates me about AA is a lot of folks try and say you should go off your meds and that it was from untreated alcoholism. It may be true in some cases I guess but I know I have to take my meds. I'm not trying to be one of these people who pop up in my abuse of power threads killed by cops because I have a mental breakdown
 
I've always believed this. I used to take medications like you Deej, but lately I've been able to take almost (I still have moments :hehe: All have sinned, all fall short as they say) full control over this through meditation and prayer and it's been pretty wonderful. Plus some things are happening that I feel have been kind of preordained, but still falling into place, and it's just a crazy awesome roller coaster man.

Come to think of it, this has truly been a really blessed Easter for me. Even though I don't go to church anymore, because of my honest, open relationship while maintaining my true self—not a representation of myself as I think people would want to see me—before God is just such a miraculous thing to me.

Wow.

No offense but it sounds like you're high. lol
 
Three things, ShadowBoxer.

First, you have to stop acting like you're not part of a religion. That's simply not true. You believe Jesus was the Son of God and the Bible to be the Word of God, which makes you a Christian. You don't necessarily have to identify with any specific denomination - you could be an Independent Christian - but that still makes you a Christian and part of an overall religion nonetheless.

Second, you've essentially just repeated everything we've discussed previously. To which my response would still be the same: the human mind is extremely susceptible to illusion. That goes for all of us, not just the religious people. There's a great video by Dawkins and Harris on this topic but I can't find it on the moment, so I'll leave you off with an analogy.

People often say the same thing about cancer survivors. They say it's a miracle if they or someone they know has survived through the horror of cancer. But let's think about that for a second. The probability for the survival of certain cancers is about 5%. That means 1 out of 20 patients would survive. Sure, it may be a miracle for that one patient who prayed to God and let Jesus in his heart...until you take into account the majority of those 19 patients probably did the same, yet you won't see a headline on news titled "19/20 pray to God, then die" because that's just in poor taste. Same thing applies to cases like the Holocaust, where the surviving Jews were deemed as a miracle and example of God's grace...forgetting two thirds of them were wiped out. That's just the brilliance the human mind at work, trained to isolate the positives from the negatives as a means of creating hope for going forward (and that's not necessarily always a bad thing).

The point being: When you take in account the grander context and realize the randomness of the universe., you begin to realize the chaotic randomness that happens daily in our lives. Every time you feel like God reached out to you, there were probably 10 or 20 people in your same shoes whose prayers weren't answered.

Finally, the fact you're happier as a Christian has nothing to do with the validity of the claims made by religion. You're not arguing why Christianity is true; you're arguing why it's useful. It's an important distinction to make. And to an extent, you're very right. Studies show that the average Christian, given all other factors being equal, is much happier than the average atheist. But that still doesn't add any validity to the factual claims made by Christianity. At best, it shows beliefs have their own evolutionary advantages and the human brain is reliant on it to a certain amount. It may be in our nature, but that by itself doesn't make it true.

No offense but non believers like you self seem so sure that everyone who is religious and feel as though they had a real encounter with God either has some sort of mental issue or its an illusion or something. How can you be so sure? You weren't there to witness anything or really feel what that person felt. To me it takes a whole lot more faith to believe theories than it does in believing in a higher power. Can you prove that God doesn't exist without a shadow of a doubt? Also is there any proof that heaven and hell don't exist or is it somehow a known fact that all that's an illusion too? Some of the people in my world who are christians are highly intelligent the kinds of people that got straight A's in college. They feel the same way I do. Y'all seem to think science has an explanation for everything even though we still don't know all there is to know about it. Like anything in life, science has its limitations. I respect everyone's beliefs or lack of thereof but you can't really tell me what I have experienced is an illusion created by the mind. You may have a strong opinion that God isn't real and they random event can be explained by science, but at the end of the day that's just your opinion, not facts.

The Christian life may not make sense to you, but to me it does. I honestly believe there is something to it other wise millions of other people wouldn't bother following God or the Christian lifestyle. And I don't think it's got anything to do with illusions or people fearing hell or punishment. And yes, technically I am a Christian but being religious and having a relationship with God are two different things. Just going to church or simply owning a bible, just acknowledging God exist doesn't make you a Christian or gives you salvation. The personal relationship is what really matters.
 
To me it takes a whole lot more faith to believe theories than it does in believing in a higher power.

By definition, it requires more faith to believe in a higher power. Scientific theories are supported by evidence. Faith is believing without evidence, or shoddy evidence at best, like the anecdotal evidence you cling to.

Can you prove that God doesn't exist without a shadow of a doubt? Also is there any proof that heaven and hell don't exist or is it somehow a known fact that all that's an illusion too?

You can't claim something and then invite people to DISprove it. You have to PROVE it first.

Y'all seem to think science has an explanation for everything even though we still don't know all there is to know about it.

You keep repeating this but nobody in this thread has said this. Nobody.

Just going to church or simply owning a bible, just acknowledging God exist doesn't make you a Christian

Believing in the Christian god makes you a Christian, yes. A serial killer is still a Christian if he believes in God.
 
You know what I'm tired of? The total misuse of the word tolerant. It's tossed around left and right and yet I see very little of it's actual meaning implemented in modern society.

Lately the word tolerance means that it's OK to believe what you want to believe as long as you don't mention it to anyone and if you do then you HAVE to agree with them. So, basically...it's ok to believe what you want as long as it matches what others thing.


I understand it's the vocal minority on various "sides" that do this...but i'm still sick of seeing it in society.



We will be tolerant of peoples beliefs...as long as they are not Christian....as long as they are not Muslim...as long as they are not republican or democrat or whatever other title or label we disagree with then suddenly they are called intolerant because they won't agree with your perspective on things.



It's no wonder we can't fix anything...we're all too busy with our heads up our asses.
 
By definition, it requires more faith to believe in a higher power. Scientific theories are supported by evidence. Faith is believing without evidence, or shoddy evidence at best, like the anecdotal evidence you cling to.



You can't claim something and then invite people to DISprove it. You have to PROVE it first.



You keep repeating this but nobody in this thread has said this. Nobody.



Believing in the Christian god makes you a Christian, yes. A serial killer is still a Christian if he believes in God.

I am saying some are acting as though every person who claims to have had a encounter with God either imagined it or something and throw out some explaination regarding psychology or whatever as if it's a fact that that's what happened to those people. It's cool if that's their opinion, but it's not cool to make it seem as though it's fact. Second, believing in a sequence of random events that just happen the create the earth and everything on it, with wildlife, people of different cultures and seasons and whatever and it all just happened by chance? But it's so absurd to believe in a higher power? Who's to say a higher power didn't cause those chain of events to happen? Third, just because you believe in God does NOT make you a Christian. The devil believes there is a God does that make him a christian? That's like me going to Taco Bell and saying I am a taco. Being a Christian means living your life according to God's word and being in relationship. Just going to church, owning a bible, singing worship songs and going through the motions is just religion. So that's the difference between the two.
 
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You know what I'm tired of? The total misuse of the word tolerant. It's tossed around left and right and yet I see very little of it's actual meaning implemented in modern society.

Lately the word tolerance means that it's OK to believe what you want to believe as long as you don't mention it to anyone and if you do then you HAVE to agree with them. So, basically...it's ok to believe what you want as long as it matches what others thing.


I understand it's the vocal minority on various "sides" that do this...but i'm still sick of seeing it in society.



We will be tolerant of peoples beliefs...as long as they are not Christian....as long as they are not Muslim...as long as they are not republican or democrat or whatever other title or label we disagree with then suddenly they are called intolerant because they won't agree with your perspective on things.



It's no wonder we can't fix anything...we're all too busy with our heads up our asses.

Honestly I agree with you there.
 
Being a Christian means living your life according to God's word and being in relationship. Just going to church, owning a bible, singing worship songs and going through the motions is just religion. So that's the difference between the two.

God's word is not the same to everyone. The members of the Westboro Baptist Church are Christians. They believe in God and live their lives according to their interpretation of God's word.
 
Anyone do any Easter Egg hunts for Easter??

th
 
No offense but non believers like you self seem so sure that everyone who is religious and feel as though they had a real encounter with God either has some sort of mental issue or its an illusion or something. How can you be so sure?
There have been studies shown how the brain chemistry appears different between those identifying themselves as religious vs non religious. Certain levels such as dopamine are increased in a religious person's brain for example. Even with some evidence, a religious person won't accept it as a possibility. For a non religious person, the bible being expressed as evidence for God is a bit sketchy.
You weren't there to witness anything or really feel what that person felt. To me it takes a whole lot more faith to believe theories than it does in believing in a higher power. Can you prove that God doesn't exist without a shadow of a doubt? Also is there any proof that heaven and hell don't exist or is it somehow a known fact that all that's an illusion too?
Theories based on science within a natural world don't require faith. A belief based on no evidence requires a lot of faith. I can't prove that a Parastratiosphecomyiastratiosphecomyioides (real name of fly found in India) is God, but if I had faith in it I suppose I could state that as a deity and base a religion around it. It would be a long name for a church though ;)
Some of the people in my world who are christians are highly intelligent the kinds of people that got straight A's in college. They feel the same way I do. Y'all seem to think science has an explanation for everything even though we still don't know all there is to know about it. Like anything in life, science has its limitations.
Yet those who are of highest educational levels in areas of science show that at each higher level of expertise, there is a decrease in the belief of a personal God. Only 7% of those considered experts in scientific study consider themselves religious and believing of such an intervening God. Many of those experts before their studies, grew up in traditional religious households.
I respect everyone's beliefs or lack of thereof but you can't really tell me what I have experienced is an illusion created by the mind. You may have a strong opinion that God isn't real and they random event can be explained by science, but at the end of the day that's just your opinion, not facts.
It's not to dismiss your beliefs, but rather to explain a reason within our current limits of scientific understanding. Science is not about knowing every answer, but at least seeking correct answer and eliminating those of which have no merit or basis. It's not as simple as looking at Christian belief as an illusion.

Look at some of the brain scans in studies of a religious mind vs that of a non believer. In terms of emotional control, the left caudate is significantly lower activity. The frontal lobes for someone with controlled willful and conscious behavior have a higher level of blood flow in this area. The higher the level of belief, the lower the emotional control. This is even evidenced between a typical Christian vs someone who speaks in tongues.

sit02_bscan.jpg


I'm sure that a religious person may look to dismiss such a study because that would go against their faith... less control can be spun as giving one's self up to God, thus "eliminating" these scans as proof. However, I think such evidence is useful because there is reason and logic to it.
The Christian life may not make sense to you, but to me it does. I honestly believe there is something to it other wise millions of other people wouldn't bother following God or the Christian lifestyle. And I don't think it's got anything to do with illusions or people fearing hell or punishment. And yes, technically I am a Christian but being religious and having a relationship with God are two different things. Just going to church or simply owning a bible, just acknowledging God exist doesn't make you a Christian or gives you salvation. The personal relationship is what really matters.
There are also 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. There are 8 million Scientologists in the world. There are 350 million Buddhists in the world. There are 5 million believers in Shintoism as well... etc.
 
i'm not judging, but I don't really like this guy, however I think his video makes some interesting points.

this guy on the other hand, well, I'm not sure what to say.
 
Second, believing in a sequence of random events that just happen the create the earth and everything on it, with wildlife, people of different cultures and seasons and whatever and it all just happened by chance? But it's so absurd to believe in a higher power?

For me it's really easier to think that something simple forms something more complex. Instead of there always being pretty much the most complex entity which creates all the other things. Now that would be random to me compared to some organic molecules forming and ultimately leading to life. It also helps that it really didn't happen overnight...or even in 6 days. But then again I'm a simple guy and I enjoy simple things.

Randomness and chance are difficult concepts, because we're always trying to look patterns and make sense of things. When it comes to life, some people seem to be scared that we or the whole universe might be here because of some kind of random events. That is because many of us want to have a big purpose or something. But we might not be as significant as we like to believe.
 
i'm not judging, but I don't really like this guy, however I think his video makes some interesting points.


This guy is a hypocrite. First he posits that everything must have a cause, and he uses God as our cause. Then he throws that out of the window and claims that God is eternal and uncreated.

He takes Allah's proposed characteristics and uses them to argue for... Allah. Of course Allah is going to conform to his own standards.
 
This guy is a hypocrite. First he posits that everything must have a cause, and he uses God as our cause. Then he throws that out of the window and claims that God is eternal and uncreated.

He takes Allah's proposed characteristics and uses them to argue for... Allah. Of course Allah is going to conform to his own standards.
I'm not sure how the two things conflict.

I don't really like him because to me comes off as kinda pretentious and condescending but I don't wanna judge because it's not like I know any better.
 
Point 1. Everything must have a cause --> God is the cause
Point 2. God doesn't need a cause --> contradicts point 1
nothing but god is eternal. it had no beginning nor will it have an end.
 
ShadowBoxer said:
I honestly believe there is something to it other wise millions of other people wouldn't bother following God or the Christian lifestyle. And I don't think it's got anything to do with illusions or people fearing hell or punishment.
Uhhh ermmm.... Shadow? Come on man. I'm more open to Christianity than Greens or BvS but this is a pretty bad argument.
There are also 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. There are 8 million Scientologists in the world. There are 350 million Buddhists in the world. There are 5 million believers in Shintoism as well... etc.
This is an excellent point. Shadow stated that because millions of people follow a certain type of Christianity that it somehow equates to validity of it being true. There are thousands upon thousands of different segments for Christian religions, each claiming to be a truer form than another.
 
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At the end of the day I believe what I believe for reasons I have stated many times in this topic. I simply don't believe in that everything the way it is by mere chance or randomness. Science is cool and all but it doesn't given me a good enough reason to say their is no God and I doubt it ever will. I am also perfectly fine not always understanding God's ways. People may not like my views and opinons because of my faith and that's also fine. I am honestly not here to please other people. But one thing I won't do is turn my back and my beliefs just because society says I should go along with whatever the popular opinion is of the time is. I been laughed at, and even been called stupid for my beliefs but honestly none of that matters to me.

All I can do is live my life according to what I believe in my heart and mind to be true and keep it moving. I feel as though I been extremely blessed beyond what I actually deserve. Not to toot my own horn, but I done things in my life other 27 year olds only dream about doing, and to me it all stems staying faithful to God. And if by some small chance there is indeed no God, then I lost absolutely nothing. But I honestly believe there is. Nothing in this world would give me more joy than standing before God during judgement and him saying the words " Well done my good and faithful servant".
 
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