Ultimate Comics Thread - Part 1

[chamber-music]

Already half black/half hispanic superheroes Darwin from X-Men/X-Factor and Sunspot from X-Men/New Mutants

THIS IS NOT THE 616 UNIVERSE. The
Ultimate Universe tends to play for keeps. You die and you stay dead. Why would they bring Peter back for the Amazing Spiderman? They have the 616 spidey to use. They have the guy with a book that comes out 3 times a month. They have the guy who is on the avengers which means he's out 4 times a month. Thats not counting the new event at that point in time.

Remember what happened when Iron Man 2 came out? They did promote the black widow........in the 616 universe. She got her come comic and had more appearances.
War machine got his own comic.

Marvel doesn't need to change the Ultimate Universe for the movies. Hell they use the Ultimate universe as a way to manipulate the movies(Hawkeye's movie costume).

I don't see how this insult the Peter Parker character. They aren't changing things across the board. Its one comic and they have done this from the start. They manipulate characters. This time they have chosen to remove Peter but keep in Spiderman.

Investment? Why should you have less investment with the new guy then Ultimate Peter Parker. Is it because he's not white? They aren't pulling a Ben Reilly where Peter is gone everywhere. The Ultimate Universe was created the change up things.

Why I support this. Marvel finally took the opportunity to address and glaringly bad problem. They have black characters.......But many of them are C list and below. Panther and Storm are AFRICAN. I'm African American, yeah these characters are black but its like trying to relate to some dude from Sweden. Luke Cage and Falcon are former convicts(.....great..). Captain Marvel? Umm not Captain Marvel in any shape or form.
War Machine is probably the best one to have come out of this.

The problem addressed here is finally the main role is a non white character. I do wish they may have used a name like Ben Reilly or that of 2099 but whatever. Some people may go "Well that PC" or something like that. If your not a minority then you don't get it.

Then you may ask why not Asian or something? Well then your not Black. Blacks in America do not get the same treatment as asians or others. Also we don't have a whole lot of media devoted to us. There may be few asian superheroes in american comics.........but umm Manga? Asian Television? Asian American representation is low. African *insert country of origin* worldwide is downright low unless its about starving children in africa.

Storm is American. Her father is African American and she was born in Harlem. Her mothers from Kenya.

Luke Cage was framed for a crime he didn't commit and he went on to clear his name.

They could of made Robbie Robertson Spiderman in ultimate universe I suppose.

Marvels Black characters are not more than b/c listers because most of them don't have solo comics or are poorly written/managed or simply forgotten about.

 

[Spade]

I'd lose interest in USM entirely if Peter's back next year. The whole point of the Ultimate imprint is to do things we haven't seen before. When they can't do that anymore, they should stop.

 

[chris moore]

I can see a lot of forum focus on the fact that it's not a pre-existing character. But why there's so much on the character's ethnicity, I don't get it. I don't get why Marvel is even making a point of saying he's half this and half that. All the ruckus about representation and where ethnic characters fit in the MU - why can't it just have been a new guy and he happens to be of what we "oh-so-smartly" label as an ethnic representation? Better still would have been a pre-existing character who also happens to be half latino etc, but that they chose simply because he'd been underused in the Ultimate universe or not had a useful entry avenue in it yet and becoming spidey was a good vehicle. But no - we go the route of "look at us - we're attracting attention to the fact that there is unimportant physical difference in the world and that aside from the bigots who have a problem with variety, the only reason there is any segregation or labelling or grouping or communities is because there is some unfounded demand that these be called communities - but we're doing it in a positive light by empowering an ethnicity"

Ask a two year old to describe their friend who happens to be black, and they'll say "they've got dark hair, and always wears a red jumper, and they're really funny". Ask an adult to do the same and the first thing they say is "well, they're black, and about 6ft etc"

Bit of a rant, and sorry if it offends. But to be fair something "offends" everybody, whatever it might be. Idiots offend me - but we don't have an idiot community demanding specific rights now do we? I just wish (ironically as it turns out as I've done it myself now) there wasn't "focus" on something when it isn't "the norm". Make Spidey ethnic for the randomness of the artist being bored using the same facial style all the time. Do it because the writer thought up a cool sounding name and it sounded like it wasn't exactly Anglo Saxon. Don't do it because of some demographic or political correctness.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I'm not entirely sure I get the point you're trying to make but I'mm pretty sure I disagree with it.

I'm saying that it's okay to change a character's race, especially in Ultimate books, but to kill a character off just to give his alter-ego over to a minority character is kind of demeaning to minorities.

What about all the other little Miles Morales'es out there? Do they need to wait for some white guy to die before they can make something of themselves? I don't think so.

Think of some ethnic or mixed kid who has been following me, UltimateJustin, over the past five exciting years and sees me as kind of a symbol or icon or whatever. I say to him, just go for it yourself, vato; you don't have to wait for me to die.

 

[Drz]

Here's the 2nd USA today article:

Spoiler

Bendis inspired by Don Glover on creating the new Spider-Man

Glover has reacted humbly to his part in the creation of a new Spider-Man, tweeting overnight “So fly,” before adding this morning to Bendis: “Just wanted to say ‘wow; and thank you for doing something really cool and interesting! You’re tops.”

 

[UltimateJustin]

Here's the 2nd USA today article:

Spoiler

Bendis inspired by Don Glover on creating the new Spider-Man

Glover has reacted humbly to his part in the creation of a new Spider-Man, tweeting overnight “So fly,” before adding this morning to Bendis: “Just wanted to say ‘wow; and thank you for doing something really cool and interesting! You’re tops.”

Well, Bendis is def. in a position where he can affect change for Spider-Man and I can certainly understand him being inspired to do so. I reacted to Glover not being cast as well, by having absolutely no interest in the new movie.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Well, Bendis is def. in a position where he can affect change for Spider-Man and I can certainly understand him being inspired to do so. I reacted to Glover not being cast as well, by having absolutely no interest in the new movie.

So you decided to not care about the movie because they went with a traditional version of the character? Did you not read Ultimate Spiderman when it first came out because they went with a white Peter Parker then too?

I'm not against this new Spiderman's ethnicity at all, but Marvel is doing a pretty ****** job of being humble and/or coy about this. It's the same thing DC did with the new Batwoman. "We're so awesome, you should buy our comics because we're socially aware".

It's ******** attention garnering. Just tell the story, and the character should be able to speak for itself. We don't need to hear about how "enlightened" you are for including 2 different minority ethnicities into one character.

I also think Marvel is getting their hopes up about how this will bring more readers in. I don't think this is going to be a major selling point for new readers, except for maybe the .5% of their fanbase that also happens to be half black, half latino and don't already read the Ultimate line.

 

[Union Jack]

there are plenty of brilliant black heroes i don't get why some folk get upset about it,these heroes are some of my fave heroes too..
luke cage,falcon,black panther,rage,storm,war machine,patriot,3d man..all great heroes.
luke becoming near a list has been great..he's a fantastic character!!
it's really the villains we should moan about...can't think of any decent black villains.
i hope that people take to miles morales as spidey..but for me peter parker is spider-man..is wolverine and doctor strange still dead in the Ultimate universe??

 

[chamber-music]

Moses Magnum is a good black villain he is an enemy of Luke Cage, Black Panther and X-Men. He was in the Hoods gang as well I would like to see more of him.

There is Tombstone too.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

He apparently will also be gay in the future. I just cannot understand why.

 

[Drz]

is wolverine and doctor strange still dead in the Ultimate universe??

Ofcourse they are.

He apparently will also be gay in the future. I just cannot understand why.

Please don't post assumptions/rumours as facts, if this is regarding the new Spider-Man.

 

[UltimateJustin]

So you decided to not care about the movie because they went with a traditional version of the character? Did you not read Ultimate Spiderman when it first came out because they went with a white Peter Parker then too?

I'm not against this new Spiderman's ethnicity at all, but Marvel is doing a pretty ****** job of being humble and/or coy about this. It's the same thing DC did with the new Batwoman. "We're so awesome, you should buy our comics because we're socially aware".

It's ******** attention garnering. Just tell the story, and the character should be able to speak for itself. We don't need to hear about how "enlightened" you are for including 2 different minority ethnicities into one character.

I also think Marvel is getting their hopes up about how this will bring more readers in. I don't think this is going to be a major selling point for new readers, except for maybe the .5% of their fanbase that also happens to be half black, half latino and don't already read the Ultimate line.

Ultimate Spiderman came out after nearly 40 years of 616 continuity, and brought it back to its roots and avenues that hadn't been explored in decades. I'm not interested in the new movie because nothing about it looks fresh or interesting. It could only either be less than, better than or different from the recent films. With all the rehashed scenes in the trailer it certainly doesn't look different enough to get me excited. I know only time will tell if it is better, but at this point I'm not interested in it because it looks superfluous to me.

100% agree with everything else you said.

 

[daveswb]

To be honest this feels like a gimmick. They’ve killed a lot of heroes in the ultimate books (and di not bring them back, even another person as the same hero), why are they bringing back spider-man? And so soon after his death? I’ll admit I’m not a big fan of the ultimate books (I think due to the fact that I grew up reading the 616 stuff) but given the way the ultimate verse has been handled thus far this really feels like a gimmick in comparison.

And ½ African American ½ Hispanic? Really? No offense but I don’t see the point other than selling books. They could of introduced a truly new super hero with the same ethnic qualities. Yet they picked Marvel’s flag ship character to do so. And it makes it feel like they killed Peter just to introduce this character. Again just give us new hero to identify with. I really think Hispanic and African Americans should be offended at this obvious publicity stunt. And why not an Asian American? An Indian? A Native American? Why? Because there are more African Americans and Hispanics in this country and they are trying to sell them comic books. Again an offensive trick.

But the main issue I have with this is that Spider-Man is the story of Peter Parker. Just like Batman is the story of Bruce Wayne and Superman is the story of Kal-El/Clark Kent. They’ve tried changing the person under the mask so many times and it always reverts back to Peter. It doesn’t work with anyone else. It’s a nice distraction for a while, but after a time fans want to read the story of Peter Parker again.

 

[Drz]

To be honest this feels like a gimmick. They’ve killed a lot of heroes in the ultimate books (and di not bring them back, even another person as the same hero), why are they bringing back spider-man? And so soon after his death? I’ll admit I’m not a big fan of the ultimate books (I think due to the fact that I grew up reading the 616 stuff) but given the way the ultimate verse has been handled thus far this really feels like a gimmick in comparison.

The characters are barely like their counterparts however, it's a new 21th century spin on them to keep things fresh. Why is a new Spidey coming after Peter Parker's public death? Because the whole world felt it, everyone knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man and everyone knows he's dead, his death is on youtube, the news you name it. Miles Morales is inspired by Peter Parker's heroism and decides to try and fill this hole he's death has left, he wants to do good and help the world.

And ½ African American ½ Hispanic? Really? No offense but I don’t see the point other than selling books.

Are you really implying people will purchase this comic monthly because of race over quality of the writing? This is like saying Ultimate Spider-Man only sold because of Peter Parker, not because of the quality in writing and art.

They could of introduced a truly new super hero with the same ethnic qualities. Yet they picked Marvel’s flag ship character to do so. And it makes it feel like they killed Peter just to introduce this character.

Bendis was tasked to pitch +24 issues of comics with Peter Parker vs. +24 issues of Miles Morales and Peter Parker as "Uncle Ben" and he ultimately saw the bigger potential and went along with it. It's to tell a story you'll never see in the mainstream comics, so why not? Quality stories are always quality stories.

Because there are more African Americans and Hispanics in this country and they are trying to sell them comic books. Again an offensive trick.

Shouldn't Hispanic African American find this comment offensive because you're trying to claim they would only read a hero of their own skin? Alongside offensive to white people such as myself that i wouldn't read this comic or i would read this comic because of Ethic background? I don't care what his background is, i just want good stories.

But the main issue I have with this is that Spider-Man is the story of Peter Parker. Just like Batman is the story of Bruce Wayne and Superman is the story of Kal-El/Clark Kent. They’ve tried changing the person under the mask so many times and it always reverts back to Peter. It doesn’t work with anyone else. It’s a nice distraction for a while, but after a time fans want to read the story of Peter Parker again.

And they can read The Amazing Spider-Man which has been critically praised and loved by fans once Dan Slott started writing it, so they always have that option.

 

[daveswb]

Shouldn't Hispanic African American find this comment offensive because you're trying to claim they would only read a hero of their own skin? Alongside offensive to white people such as myself that i wouldn't read this comic or i would read this comic because of Ethic background? I don't care what his background is, i just want good stories.

Sorry I don't mean to offend anyone. Maybe my point wasn't clear. The argument there is that they are more likely to read a book based on a character of thier on ethniticity. And seriously look at how this is evolving, it's more about selling books then good story writting.

They told people about his ethnicity before the issue hit the stores. Why not have a new mysterious spider-man show up for like 6 months here and there in other ultimate books then after a while tell people his true identity? Because they are trying to get people to buy books, not because they are trying to write a good story.

Heck, That could make for a real compelling story. The people trying to deal with Peter's death seeing a new Spidey and not knowing who he is. And wondering is it Peter? How'd he get his powers?

Bendis is the biggest ego in comics and he really isn't that creative either. I'm shocked by all the people that thinks he's great and this is such a brilliant origional move.

Smell a publicity stunt when it's right in front of you.

 

[Drz]

Maybe my point wasn't clear. The argument there is that they are more likely to read a book based on a character of thier on ethniticity. And seriously look at how this is evolving, it's more about selling books then good story writting.

Like i said: Bendis realized he has more potential with Miles than Parker, he sees the big potential and uniqueness that there is for Peter Parker being Uncle Ben. Also considering the "fact" that most comic readers are white, shouldn't that mean the smart thing to "sell a book" was to keep Peter Parker white? Or are you trying to imply there will be a whole new comic audience because of ethic background?

They told people about his ethnicity before the issue hit the stores. Why not have a new mysterious spider-man show up for like 6 months here and there in other ultimate books then after a while tell people his true identity? Because they are trying to get people to buy books, not because they are trying to write a good story.

Doing PR to keep people talking is what sells the book. USA TODAY has been showing previews of each issue of Flashpoint, they revealed the DC relaunch coming this September, they talked about Death of Spider-Man and there are so many more examples. PR is PR and it gets people deeming them as collector's items, but if you honestly think that 1 issue every now and then is what Marvel is aiming at, then you're being baseless. Like i already have told you: Bendis was tasked to pitch +24 issues worth of context for Miles vs. Peter and he saw the potential.

If you honestly don't think nomatter what it's not going to be a good story, simply don't pick up Ultimate Fallout #4 today.

Heck, That could make for a real compelling story. The people trying to deal with Peter's death seeing a new Spidey and not knowing who he is. And wondering is it Peter? How'd he get his powers?

Don't forget that Spider-Man became an embraced and loved hero to New York and even J Jonah Jameson became the biggest Spider-Man supporter, when he realized Parker = Spider-Man what did he do? He told Parker he wants to pay his College/University as a small return for all the great heroics Parker's done, so what happens now with a new Spidey? Will Jameson think this guy is ruining Parker's legacy? Will he find it insulting? Is this the new angle on "Spider-Man is a Menace" for Jameson?

There might be even an Ultimate Daveswb who finds this new Spidey as insulting to the heroic teenager. As you can see: Lots of story potential.

Bendis is the biggest ego in comics and he really isn't that creative either. I'm shocked by all the people that thinks he's great and this is such a brilliant origional move.

Oh sure you can relate this with Wally West and Barry Allen angle, but what have you found lackluster on his USM run?

Smell a publicity stunt when it's right in front of you.

It gets people to talk and curious to check things out, sure #1 might sell like hotpancakes, but it's the quality of the writing that keeps the comic strong, not the ethic background or the name Peter Parker.

 

[RAMORE]

So you decided to not care about the movie because they went with a traditional version of the character? Did you not read Ultimate Spiderman when it first came out because they went with a white Peter Parker then too?

I'm not against this new Spiderman's ethnicity at all, but Marvel is doing a pretty ****** job of being humble and/or coy about this. It's the same thing DC did with the new Batwoman. "We're so awesome, you should buy our comics because we're socially aware".

It's ******** attention garnering. Just tell the story, and the character should be able to speak for itself. We don't need to hear about how "enlightened" you are for including 2 different minority ethnicities into one character.

I also think Marvel is getting their hopes up about how this will bring more readers in. I don't think this is going to be a major selling point for new readers, except for maybe the .5% of their fanbase that also happens to be half black, half latino and don't already read the Ultimate line.

I like some of your comments but I think your misreading this I think they want the attention they are trying not to let it all be about DC and the new launch. I wonder if they heard about DC planning something big so they decided to do something BIG too.

 

[SpideyForPrez]

So has anyone read Ultimate Fallout #4 yet? I was trying not to spoil the new Spider-Man for myself but Conan O'Brien and George Lopez (Lopez was just on in the background... I don't watch his show) both spoiled it for me during their monologues, so I ended up reading about this Miles Morales fellow. If anyone's read it, how much do we learn about him?

I'll give this new Spidey a chance. I don't care what race he is as long as the writing's good and they make him an interesting character. Though I was about ready to quit USM anyway.

 

[Drz]

Bendis on the new Spider-Man

- 13 Year olds
- Puerto Rican on his Mother's side
- Lives in Brooklyn which is still damaged from all the damage Ultimatum caused.
- Aunt May and Gwen Stacy confirmed to appear on the 1st arc
- Spider-Woman will appear
- Characters close to Peter Parker will be seen in new ways.
- How the new Spidey got his powers? Explained in the first issue.

 

[SpiderJ]

not sure how I feel about the new Spider-man.......

why not just create a brand new character?

 

[UltimateJustin]

I wouldn't be so upset that this is a gimmick/stunt/publicity move and not a decision driven by desire to tell better stories. If I were to think up the absolute worst way to tell great stories, it would be in short, monthly installments over the course of decades and rapidly complex continuity.

At any rate, it's improved USM's sales for the moment. Mission accomplished.

 

[Drz]

@SpiderJ: So they could show a world where Peter Parker is deemed as a global hero who did countless sacrifises and whatnot, to show how popular characters related to him would react and show that Peter Parker even in death can inspire others to become heroes and help the world. With great power comes great responsibilities.

I wouldn't be so upset that this is a gimmick/stunt/publicity move and not a decision driven by desire to tell better stories.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-ultimate-spider-man-brian-michael-bendis-110803.html

Nrama: With the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon debuting next year, was there any concern that there might be brand confusion with Peter Parker in the cartoon and Miles Morales in the comic?
Bendis: I asked that very question, and it seems the answer was no.
But I notice that some people feel that Peter will be back in the comic book by the time the cartoon comes out. That is not the case. I have already written up to the issues of when the cartoon comes out. That's not happening. This is a long-term goal. This is it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I like some of your comments but I think your misreading this I think they want the attention they are trying not to let it all be about DC and the new launch. I wonder if they heard about DC planning something big so they decided to do something BIG too.

My problem is it's not big, and it's a fairly safe change. Number one, it's not as though they've "upped the diversity" because honestly Ultimate Spider-Man now is a C-Lister at best. The cartoon will feature Peter Parker, so Miles will face the same challenges as he would if he weren't dawning his Spider-Man-esque costume. Also the new movie, potentially a new trilogy will also feature Peter Parker. He's Spider-Man 2099 or Spider-Man 1602, a basically irrelevant character in the scheme of things

Which brings me to my second point: this isn't 616...and I agree, this is almost exactly like Batwoman/The New Question "Look at how diverse and tolerant we are, aren't we tolerant". The irony of course is they are using a white character to boost the popularity of a non-white character, tacitly admiting that if they tried to write him from scratch with his own identity it probably wouldn't work.

I have no problem with the replacement actually, no more than I did Rhodey or John Stewart, although Marvel and DC respectively did a much better job of infusing those characters into their mythos and making them popular. They introduced them as supporting cast members, allowed them to get popular, rather than awkwardly announcing how diverse they were to the media. Axel Alonso's comments worry me to, about how his diversity "reflects the times". I didn't know white people had ceased to exist, or how his race somehow is more relateable or reflective of our era. Peter Parker story of heartache and constant money problems are more relateable to me now, in this day and time, than they were when I was young. His "whiteness" has nothing to do with this, and while I expect Miles to have similar problems, it won't be his race that makes these problems seem any more real or relateable.

 

[chamber-music]

Bendis on the new Spider-Man

- 13 Year olds
- Puerto Rican on his Mother's side
- Lives in Brooklyn which is still damaged from all the damage Ultimatum caused.
- Aunt May and Gwen Stacy confirmed to appear on the 1st arc
- Spider-Woman will appear
- Characters close to Peter Parker will be seen in new ways.
- How the new Spidey got his powers? Explained in the first issue.

Damn 13 years old thats a bit young.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Damn 13 years old thats a bit young.

Only two years younger than Peter when he started out and plus kids age quicker these days.