I always liked the way Thundra looked. Don't have many comics with her, though. Is there any must read storyline with her?
March 31, 2017 02:56pm ET
Credit: Mike Deodato Jr. (Marvel Comics)
Credit: Marvel ComicsAccording to David Gabriel, Marvel's Senior Vice President of Sales, Print & Marketing, a sales downturn at the publisher that accompanied a "big shift in the entire industry" beginning in October 2016 came as a result of many factors, including, according to the executive, the market "turning up their noses" at any title not featuring a "core Marvel character."
Suggesting the answer to the question of why people's tastes suddenly changed was better answered by Direct Market retailers,
Gabriel told ICv2 that "What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don't know that that's really true, but that's what we saw in sales."
Gabriel described what was no longer viable as "things that we had been doing successfully for the past three years..."
"We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against," he explained. " That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked."
Gabriel cited other factors for the market shift, including the economy, specifically events occurring in October/November that affected how consumers wanted to spend their money (with the unsaid implication of the U.S. presidential election), unease and lack of cash flow due to returns to Diamond Comic Distributors from DC's "Rebirth" initiative, a glut of product, and just a general sense of anger over all these issues.
"There was anger because of story reasons for all of us."
"It was the old things coming back in that time period, three books in particular, Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, that had Spider-Man and Mary Jane married, that worked," he further explained. "The Venom book worked and the Thanos book worked. You can take what you want out of who might be enjoying those three books, but it is definitely a specific type of comic book reader, comic book collector that really liked those three series."
Credit: Marvel Comics
Knowing they had to make changes to adjust to the market, Gabriel explained it took six months in order for them to execute their plans, which they're now starting to promote. Recently the publisher revealed a marketing intiative which will feature the return of its classic characters and include the tagline "Make Mine Marvel."
Marvel's upcoming Generations series, which takes place during its summer Secret Empire crossover, will pair new iterations of Marvel's heroes with their classic counterparts.
Originally Posted by Mike Murdock
It's not implausible, sad as that is. That being said, part of Marvel's goal was to expand the market to attract fans not just holding to nostalgia with hopes of making up for any declines in sales.
And before anyone claims that it isn't diversity that's an issue, they just don't want their characters replaced by the diverse character, I ask if they bought Mosaic, which was precisely that.
Anyway, even though a return to the previous status quo is inevitable, I hope they don't do it all at once. The transition to what we have now was done over a period of years. I hope they scale it back at the same speed. It seems Secret Empire is a good point for Sam to change back. Jane's Thor is a more popular character and it seems that the transition for Odinson to reclaim his title is beginning, but I think that can play out over a period of time. I fear Riri will be pushed out already, but I'd prefer she get at least some time to develop first. On the Captain/Ms. Marvel fronts, that one should and likely will be a permanent status quo. I don't think people actually want Mar-Vell back full time. He's a great legacy character to remember and Kamala is a great new Ms. Marvel.
Originally Posted by zenith16
it's half that and there are indeed those that want thing the same no matter what and those are the one that barley even read the book.
but the thing of late that's a thing is the problem is the transition. the problem here is how it happening thor has always repeatedly lost that hammer so that's not a problem.
but for some others like cyclops or spiderman or captain america or prof X I think fan are tired of the writer doing character assassination doing it for controversy . when they can just do it the normal way put the character in administrative position's and let the new people handle the field work. it's not that hard . but some writer think ok I'll kill this character off and put in my creation and while the new people are there doing the job they are missing thing, like certain skills that are needed to do the job and while some might say they will learn it the writer's these day's make it so they won't learn that much needed skill for a very long time(as in years) and alot of people these day don't like to wait.
they have alot impatience issues especially they know how alot of writers act these days . and it's not helping that writer's have been making character not as smart as they used to be ether just to push the story along. it's a number of issue's it's just simple one answer any more sadly
I think there is room for but as there's always been befor but they need to stop replacement in the I'll kill them off way and also ruin their rep or what was likeable about them to do it . << this is why there strong back lash and make them a boss figure like bruce wayne was in batman beyond or when he became police commissioner of Gotham in the golden age and he had his daughter helena wayne when he started batman inc or the out siders.
tony stark doesn't have make fast come back let riri do the work of handling the bad guys and let tony get back to in venting and being her mission control and advisor. and only show to help when she need in the iron man books.
Let them get old or more importantly move on career wise let younger other character handle the field work. let the older be the boss and handle the stuff of political intrigue etc. it's working for nick fury jr as it did worked for his dad nick fury senor and it worked for Xavier.
April 03, 2017
Marvel Comics has recently seen a huge sales nosedive, with most comics cancelled and then relaunched every six issues.
Marvel Comics VP of Sales David Gabriel recently spoke at a retailer summit (via ICV2), where he blamed fans for "turning their noses up" at diversity and even said that fans “didn’t want female characters out there." (via ICV2).
Ms. Marvel writer G. Willow Wilson even realized this problem as she stated on her website:Wilson is on-point with that one. Why kill off an iconic character just to replace them with worse versions? Why can't they just create new characters? It seems Marvel Comics has taken fans for granted and expect them to buy whatever they can release without caring about the fan base or being more creative with new characters.
This is a personal opinion, but IMO launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating the original character sets the legacy character up for failure. Who wants a legacy if the legacy is ******?
Over the past several years, there has been a decided shift in Marvels superhero line, with the on-page characters starting to look a bit more like people in the real world.
Weve seen a dramatic increase in series starring female superheroes, as well as a less pronounced (but still significant) increase in titles starring people of color. But now there are signs the shift is over, and the pendulum might be shifting back toward the white, male superheroes of yore.
Last week, David Gabriel, Marvels senior vice president of sales and market, stated in an interview with ICv2.com that retailers have told Marvel, people didnt want any more diversity. They didnt want female characters out there. Thats what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I dont know that thats really true, but thats what we saw in sales.
Although Gabriel walked back his original statement a bit the next day, promising, our fans and retailers are excited about these new heroes. And let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere, diversity is and remains a tempting target to blame for Marvels current sales slump. It paints a simple narrative: Marvel tried to reach out to new audiences, but the sales werent there. It means all Marvel has to do is shift focus back to its core superheroes and core audience, and everything will be fine.
The problem with that is simple: That narrative is just not true. As I did some digging into comic sales data, a far more complicated story took shape; sales on Marvels superhero line have slumped across the board since the end of Secret Wars, with only a single ongoing series selling more that 50,000 copies a month to specialty shops. While All-New, All-Different Marvel Now started out strong in October 2015, it quickly sputtered, with many books hemorrhaging sales, especially after DCs Rebirth relaunch.
One of the major culprits was that the All-New, All-Different relaunch turned out not to be all that new or different, with at least 24 series continuing on post-Secret Wars with the same creative team, or at least the same writer. In almost every single case, those continuing series saw dramatic sales drops after their initial relaunch.
Another culprit? Between October 2015 and February 2017, Marvel launched or relaunched at least 104 ongoing superhero series, for an average of about six new #1s a month. That is an astounding number of titles. Unsurprisingly, a very large number of these series have failed to find an audience: roughly a quarter (25) were canceled with 10 or fewer issues published; at least another seven books (7 percent) launched in late-2016/early-2017 appear to be very likely to meet the same fate, even if their cancellation has not yet been formally announced.
Looking at the data, its difficult not to get the sense that Marvel has been throwing everything at the wall, hoping that something will stick. Unfortunately, not much has been sticking. In February 2017, Marvel published only two ongoing superhero series that sold above 40,000 single issues: The Amazing Spider-Man (61,953) and The Mighty Thor (40,175). The predecessors of both series were among Marvels top sellers in 2015, with their last pre-Secret Wars issues selling 88,338 and 86,222 copies, respectively. The remainder of Marvels top 10 books all sell in the 35-39,000 copy range. Prior to Secret Wars, Marvels top 10 ongoing superhero titles were all selling above 50,000 copies per month. That is a significant drop in sales, indicating a hollowing-out of Marvels customer base.
Just to be clear, diversity has very little to do with the drop in sales in Marvels top 10 books. Only three (The Mighty Thor, Invincible Iron Man and Black Panther) can be considered diverse, in that they star a lead character who is a woman or a person of color. The rest are series starring white male heroes or teams made up predominantly of white male heroes.
These are Marvels traditional A-list heroes, being written and drawn by A-list writers and artists (almost all of whom are themselves white men), and yet they are floundering.
That is not to say that these particular books are selling worse than they should be. Several, including Invincible Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther, sell well above the level of previous series involving the same characters, and The Mighty Thor continues to sell better than its predecessor, Thor: God of Thunder, despite its own steep post-Secret Wars drop.
hile Marvel has admittedly had some misses among its diverse titles, it has also had some genuine hits. The Mighty Thor remains Marvels No. 2=selling ongoing superhero series. Black Panther has been a solid hit as well, selling enough single issues to be in Marvels top 10, and enough trades to make the bestseller lists. Invincible Iron Man (starring Riri Williams) is also in the top 10, showing very little attrition from writer Brian Micahel Bendis pre-Civil War II series. Spider-Man is close behind, selling about 5,000 more copies than Miles Morales pre-Secret Wars series.Spider-Gwen and All-New Wolverine are also both doing well, with more than 29,000 copies sold in February for both titles. And then theres Ms. Marvel and The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, two series whose trades have also made the bestsellers lists.
Having dug into the data, its become clear that diversity is not hurting Marvel. The truth is, Marvels diverse titles actually sell decently. The problem, instead, appears to be a hollowing-out of Marvels traditional A-List, titles whose sales have dropped by tens of thousands of copies in the past few years. Especially painful has been the collapse of X-Men sales, which once made up Marvels bread and butter, though the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy lines have also seen a major declines since Secret Wars. Blaming diversity only goes so far when it is series about white men and teams of white men that have been dropping the furthest.
There are many potential explanations for why Marvels sales have declined since Secret Wars the decision to relaunch titles that were already selling well, a weak slate of new series, reader fatigue with the seemingly unending string of events and crossovers, a desire for more escapist stories at a time when Marvel was prepping for an event about fascism, steep competition from DCs Rebirth relaunch, poor marketing outside of the direct market, etc. but the publishers current focus with diversity is not among them.
we marvel has this bad habit of taking thing too far at times far too often of late and I never liked the attitude that they think their fan base will take any and every thing that was one of the things I heard from some in old forum of comics fan @Xfan back in the day and man that caused alot of problems of the flame war verity and devide people and I saw alot of them back then.YEP. The social justice toilet and terrible writing is to blame. The political nonsense is even worse than event fatigue that is mentioned above as well as the disregard for the characters we have grown to love over 40+ years.
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel-comics-blames-fans-low-sales-not-themselves
"The problem is Marvel Comics has taken the fans for granted as they have always counted on their "zombies" that buy anything. Well, apparently the zombies have had enough, and it's about time."
AMEN to that...
I'm a long time fan that they need to win back. Can they stop the liberal nonsense without firing editors and writers or is it too ingrained and will seep in to their work?
YEP. The social justice toilet and terrible writing is to blame. The political nonsense is even worse than event fatigue that is mentioned above as well as the disregard for the characters we have grown to love over 40+ years.
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel-comics-blames-fans-low-sales-not-themselves
"The problem is Marvel Comics has taken the fans for granted as they have always counted on their "zombies" that buy anything. Well, apparently the zombies have had enough, and it's about time."
AMEN to that...
I'm a long time fan that they need to win back. Can they stop the liberal nonsense without firing editors and writers or is it too ingrained and will seep in to their work?