Apocalypse Users Rate, Review, and React to X-Men: Apocalypse (TAG SPOILERS)

[X-Maniac]

I thought Xavier said in the movies that he was involuntarily bombarded with the thoughts of others like an incessant babble (his own version of the social media nightmare!) and had to learn how to deal with that. He talks to his old self in DoFP about feeling all the pain of others and being overwhelmed by it.

This means he hears people's thoughts without wanting to do so.

I also thought 'mind rape' - a trendy expression in fiction that is itself rather questionable compared to actual real-life physical rape - was far more horrible than pushing some of Moira's memories to the back of her mind (she recalled a kiss and a few other vague things but nothing specific that could trace Xavier or identify his school).

TV Tropes describes mind rape as "Their mind and soul are assaulted with painful, horrifying visions, sensations, and/or memories, and their will and sanity broken until afterward they're powerless, hopeless and numb, but not dead, although they may wish they were. Minimal to no sexual contact actually occurs, but as the name indicates, everything else is there to resemble a rape — the ultimate violation of privacy and consent, extreme humiliation that annihilates all sense of self-esteem, near-absolute helplessness even against your very own mind and body, and the corrupt perversion of what could otherwise be a source of identity and joy."

That sounds far more severe an experience than what he did to Moira.

Yes Xavier's actions can be questionable but that's always the thing with telepathy, some of which is just his mind automatically reaching out.

Yes, it's debatable but then so are many of these mutants' powers. Which is what Senator Kelly debated in X1.

Storm's manipulation of weather has consequences (if she forces a downpour in one area, then the rain is taken away from another area, so some crops might be deprived of rain etc etc). Wolverine's claw slashing is hardly acceptable, there are other ways to deal with opponents than stabbing and slicing them to bits, lol...

 

[Havok83]

Storm's manipulation of weather has consequences (if she forces a downpour in one area, then the rain is taken away from another area, so some crops might be deprived of rain etc etc).

Is it though? I thought she created her weather out of nothing. I mean she can create a hurricane in the middle of the danger room when there is nothing that should be able to draw from in order to do so

 

[Matt]

I thought Xavier said in the movies that he was involuntarily bombarded with the thoughts of others like an incessant babble (his own version of the social media nightmare!) and had to learn how to deal with that. He talks to his old self in DoFP about feeling all the pain of others and being overwhelmed by it.

This means he hears people's thoughts without wanting to do so.

I also thought 'mind rape' - a trendy expression in fiction that is itself rather questionable compared to actual real-life physical rape - was far more horrible than pushing some of Moira's memories to the back of her mind (she recalled a kiss and a few other vague things but nothing specific that could trace Xavier or identify his school).

TV Tropes describes mind rape as "Their mind and soul are assaulted with painful, horrifying visions, sensations, and/or memories, and their will and sanity broken until afterward they're powerless, hopeless and numb, but not dead, although they may wish they were. Minimal to no sexual contact actually occurs, but as the name indicates, everything else is there to resemble a rape — the ultimate violation of privacy and consent, extreme humiliation that annihilates all sense of self-esteem, near-absolute helplessness even against your very own mind and body, and the corrupt perversion of what could otherwise be a source of identity and joy."

That sounds far more severe an experience than what he did to Moira.

Yes Xavier's actions can be questionable but that's always the thing with telepathy, some of which is just his mind automatically reaching out.

Yes, it's debatable but then so are many of these mutants' powers. Which is what Senator Kelly debated in X1.

Storm's manipulation of weather has consequences (if she forces a downpour in one area, then the rain is taken away from another area, so some crops might be deprived of rain etc etc). Wolverine's claw slashing is hardly acceptable, there are other ways to deal with opponents than stabbing and slicing them to bits, lol...

It is taking away someone's memory against their will. Think about that. Imagine having weeks of your life just plucked away from you. Wouldn't you feel fairly violated?

That being said, let's accept your premise that it is debatable. Fine, I can go for that. But I think any logical person can agree that it isn't a romantic gesture or something that should be treated as a cause for comedy any more than slipping a girl a roofie would be.

 

[X-Maniac]

It is taking away someone's memory against their will. Think about that. Imagine having weeks of your life just plucked away from you. Wouldn't you feel fairly violated?

That being said, let's accept your premise that it is debatable. Fine, I can go for that. But I think any logical person can agree that it isn't a romantic gesture or something that should be treated as a cause for comedy any more than slipping a girl a roofie would be.

Suppressing memories, not taking them away. He 'restored' them in this latest film, but they hadn't gone anywhere... she just wasn't able to access them, aside from some vague recollections of a kiss.

The films deal with these things in a more superficial manner because it isn't a hard-hitting Law & Order crime drama and it has just two hours. But they dealt with Xavier's mental blocks, the idea of Mutant Registration Act to find out what mutants could do with their powers, etc.

Anyway, I though we wanted the films to be LESS preachy, and LESS heavy... and more like the comics... You want Xavier to be put in the electric chair for it or something? Is that going to get the fans excited?

 

[Schlosser85]

My review

Spoiler

By sending Wolverine back in time from an apocalyptic future to the 1970s to change the past, Days of Future Past basically served as a reboot within a reboot of the "young" X-Men prequel/origin series. Like J.J. Abrams' Star Trek films, Apocalypse exists in an alternate timeline that is not tied to previous established chronology (hence why Wolverine and Nightcrawler encounter the X-Men here far earlier than in the previous films) and, conceivably, anything goes. Unfortunately, after taking the time to set up a convoluted alternate timeline, Singer and screenwriter Simon Kinberg don't do much fresh or innovative with it. Plot elements feel repetitive (as in First Class, fledgling new recruits are forced to undergo a baptism of fire into full-fledged X-Men to combat a megalomaniac intent on reshaping the world in his image). As in Days of Future Past, the series tries to have its cake and eat it too by including both new and old characters, but throwing Jean Grey, Cyclops, Angel, Storm, Quicksilver, Nightcrawler, and Psylocke all into the mix, along with bringing back Moira MacTaggart and the young William Stryker (Josh Helman), makes the movie feel crowded. Hugh Jackman's glorified cameo as Wolverine, while surely a crowd-pleasing moment, feels shoehorned into the movie just to be doing it, the same kind of fan service as Wonder Woman in Batman v Superman or Spider-Man in Captain America: Civil War (although he has less screentime than either of them). The subplot in the first act involving Magneto's newfound family lacks the impact it aims for, partly because it feels perfunctory and underdeveloped, partly because it's a repetitive plot element (Magneto tragically losing his family as a catalyst to drive him to the dark side, then wrestling with inner conflict). It's telling of the general lack of fresh or innovative ideas that a flashback of Magneto's friendship with Xavier from First Class is more moving than most of his new material here. Also irksome is the way Mystique goes further afield of the comics character with each installment, elevated to a central status she doesn't warrant and here a full-fledged "hero" and de facto team leader of the young X-Men (as indignant comic fans will tell you, that's Cyclops' job). Whether Mystique's inflated role and "heroine" status is due to egotism on the part of Jennifer Lawrence, or the studio wanting the series' "It Girl" front-and-center, or both, it's mildly irritating and smacks of a character being shoehorned into a role that doesn't suit it because it's played by a popular movie star (it's also annoyingly conspicuous how much time Jennifer Lawrence spends looking exactly like Jennifer Lawrence, only donning the blue-skinned, red-haired, yellow-eyed makeup on few and far between occasions; by contrast, Rebecca Romijn went through three movies as Mystique and only got to look like herself in two brief scenes). The pace is muddled and all the globe-trotting feels like a bit of aimless meandering. A series veteran gets a thankless throwaway offscreen death.

apocalypse3Perhaps the movie's biggest flaw is its title character, Apocalypse himself. We're meant to be awed by his godlike powers, but however technically powerful he might be, Apocalypse has a black hole for a personality and comes across like the equally bland and generic brother of Guardians of the Galaxy's Ronan or Thor: The Dark World's Malekith. Like Lee Pace and Christopher Eccleston before him, Oscar Isaac is saddled with the thankless role of being buried unrecognizably beneath excessive makeup and prosthetics and being given nothing to do besides ponderous speechifying (at least he's still got Star Wars). Quite frankly, Apocalypse himself is boring, and one of the X-Men comics' biggest villains being brought to screen unimpressively is both disappointing and drags the whole movie down. In fact, Apocalypse often seems to be getting in the way of more interesting characters and scenes around him. Guardians of the Galaxy was so enjoyable (and Ronan's screentime limited) that it succeeded in spite of a weak villain. Here, Apocalypse's deficiencies are not so easily brushed aside, partly because he is a more central part of the movie, partly because the movie around him isn't quite good enough to overcome him.

On the plus side, there is some entertaining stuff, usually when the movie gets away from its Big Bad or even the main plotline. The budding group dynamic and teamwork among young Jean Grey, Cyclops, and Nightcrawler is enjoyable. Lightning-fast Quicksilver (Evan Peters) gets an expanded role, and once again gets the most show-stopping moment in the movie, this time even more impressive than the kitchen sequence in Days of Future Past, as he zips around rescuing dozens of students from the exploding mansion. While the lengthy climactic battle pitting the fledgling X-Men against Apocalypse's Four Horsemen verges on the same excessive whiz-bang CGI-fest of Batman v Superman, Xavier's "mind palace" duel with Apocalypse, and Jean unleashing her full Phoenix powers, is at least more interesting than CGI figures flipping around blasting lasers and lightning at each other (too much of this kind of stuff gets old).

The returning series veterans are what we'd expect from them, with James McAvoy's Xavier settling a bit more into his professorial mentor role (and going bald) and Michael Fassbender's Magneto continuing to veer back-and-forth between friend and foe. Despite a couple meaty scenes, Fassbender doesn't command the screen to the extent he achieved in both First Class and Days of Future Past. Rose Byrne returns as Moira (although Xavier's mind-wipe the last time they met means they're basically meeting for the first time all over again, at least as far as she knows). Sophie Turner (one of the weaker cast members of Game of Thrones) is a bit wooden as Jean Grey, but Tye Sheridan and Kodi Smit-McPhee are likable as the young Cyclops and Nightcrawler. Their presences serve as an obvious passing of the torch; one wonders if they're poised to take more leading roles in the upcoming next installment, set in the 1990s. Storm, Angel, and Psylocke fall into the usual pitfall of henchmen in this series; they're onhand for their powers, not their nonexistent personalities.

As standard-issue comic book superhero summer escapism, Apocalypse is moderately entertaining, but it's not nearly as fresh as First Class or as innovative as Days of Future Past, and it's not a game-changer that dares to do something different like Deadpool. And even among more standard-issue superhero movies, I was not as impressed with Captain America: Civil War (also still currently playing in theaters) as some reviewers, but it was a more consistently engaging and entertaining ride than this. Fans may still enjoy themselves, but it's unlikely to draw any new converts into the fold. It's "just another comic book movie", and in a movie landscape increasingly crowded with them, that's no longer good enough.

http://www.jestersreviews.com/reviews/3339

 

[YoungBlood]

Suppressing memories, not taking them away. He 'restored' them in this latest film, but they hadn't gone anywhere... she just wasn't able to access them, aside from some vague recollections of a kiss.

The films deal with these things in a more superficial manner because it isn't a hard-hitting Law & Order crime drama and it has just two hours. But they dealt with Xavier's mental blocks, the idea of Mutant Registration Act to find out what mutants could do with their powers, etc.

Anyway, I though we wanted the films to be LESS preachy, and LESS heavy... and more like the comics... You want Xavier to be put in the electric chair for it or something? Is that going to get the fans excited?

You're kind of talking to a brick wall at this point.

 

[Havok83]

Suppressing memories, not taking them away. He 'restored' them in this latest film, but they hadn't gone anywhere... she just wasn't able to access them, aside from some vague recollections of a kiss.

Same difference. Result is she had no access to them and was mentally manipulated.

The films deal with these things in a more superficial manner because it isn't a hard-hitting Law & Order crime drama and it has just two hours. But they dealt with Xavier's mental blocks, the idea of Mutant Registration Act to find out what mutants could do with their powers, etc.

Anyway, I though we wanted the films to be LESS preachy, and LESS heavy... and more like the comics... You want Xavier to be put in the electric chair for it or something? Is that going to get the fans excited?

it would be more like the comics if she had more of a reaction to what he did to her. Xavier has done this to those close to him and has faced backlash in the books. And no one on here said Xavier should be legally punished. What we have said is that Moira should have had more of a reaction. She didnt and thats where the issue lay. It would have been natural for her to show signs of upset after hearing what he had done., not be like okay, whatever. The show treated it like a romantic moment when he finally came clean to her

 

[Raiden]

While Xavier should probably get more than just a slap on the wrist for suppressing Moira's memories against her will, but Magneto killed thousands and he didn't get any punishment at all. Xavier even treated him like he's a hero. That's messed up.

 

[MadVillainy]

While Xavier should probably get more than just a slap on the wrist for suppressing Moira's memories against her will, but Magneto killed thousands and he didn't get any punishment at all. Xavier even treated him like he's a hero. That's messed up.

Yes it was. But that's the world of superhero movies.
Scarlett Witch caused the Hulk rampage which caused so much damage. She was rewarded by becoming an Avenger.

 

[Ruth Fisher]

Some more thoughts I had on the film....

- It would have been nice if they acknowledged the mass destruction they caused around the world. Like Magneto probably killed hundreds, if not thousands, with his foolishness. Arrest him!

- The Quicksilver scene was a great watch. It was great visually, but I didn't like the transition from a dark & tense scene (Xavier Kidnapped/ Havok's death) to Quicksilvers light hearted & goofy rescue . But I guess that is what most people love about Quicksilver. He provides some comic relief. I would have liked the mansion explosion/Quicksilver rescue to be a more serious scene where you actually feared for the students, and then maybe later on have another quicksilver performance which could have been light-hearted.

- I am not here for Charles and Moria's love story. She can do better.

 

[Raiden]

Yes it was. But that's the world of superhero movies.
Scarlett Witch caused the Hulk rampage which caused so much damage. She was rewarded by becoming an Avenger.

I think the difference is that (1) Hulkbuster stopped Hulk before he could caused more collateral damage, and as we can see in that fight, Tony Stark prevented additional casualties so while the destruction caused millions in damage, the actual human death count was small or minimal (2) Wanda was a big part in helping the Avengers stopping Ultron in the end while losing her brother.

So while she was also responsible for Hulk's rampage, I think the fact that Magneto caused much more deaths is the difference between the two. And Wanda also willingly joined the Avengers to help their missions around the world while Erik is just going to walk away scott free like nothing had happened.

 

[MadVillainy]

Some more thoughts I had on the film....

- It would have been nice if they acknowledged the mass destruction they caused around the world. Like Magneto probably killed hundreds, if not thousands, with his foolishness. Arrest him!

- The Quicksilver scene was a great watch. It was great visually, but I didn't like the transition from a dark & tense scene (Xavier Kidnapped/ Havok's death) to Quicksilvers light hearted & goofy rescue . But I guess that is what most people love about Quicksilver. He provides some comic relief. I would have liked the mansion explosion/Quicksilver rescue to be a more serious scene where you actually feared for the students, and then maybe later on have another quicksilver performance which could have been light-hearted.

- I am not here for Charles and Moria's love story. She can do better.

Yes. That wouldve really made the scene. I said the same in my review.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think the difference is that (1) Hulkbuster stopped Hulk before he could caused more collateral damage, and as we can see in that fight, Tony Stark prevented additional casualties so while the destruction caused millions in damage, the actual human death count was small or minimal (2) Wanda was a big part in helping the Avengers stopping Ultron in the end while losing her brother.

So while she was also responsible for Hulk's rampage, I think the fact that Magneto caused much more deaths is the difference between the two. And Wanda also willingly joined the Avengers to help their missions around the world while Erik is just going to walk away scott free like nothing had happened.

I mean I'm not gonna argue which event was worse because obviously Magneto/Cairo was. But human life is human life. Hulk rampage definitely cause some lives to be taken. Also all the property damage.
And by the logic of Wanda helped stop Ultron, Magneto helped stop Apocalypse.

Both to me are examples of weird situations involving characters having a change of heart.

 

[Raiden]

I mean I'm not gonna argue which event was worse because obviously Magneto/Cairo was but human life is human life. Also property damage.
And by the logic of Wanda helped stop Ultron. Magneto helped stop Apocalypse.

Yes, that's why I said the difference is the number of lives lost. I think if Stark had not stopped Hulk in time and prevented more damages and lives lost, then you may have a point, but the fact that Hulk was stopped did alleviate much of her "crime". The same cannot be justify for Magneto, and not just for this movie but also for DOFP and FC.

 

[ciscostudent561]

Yes, that's why I said the difference is the number of lives lost. I think if Stark had not stopped Hulk in time and prevented more damages and lives lost, then you may have a point, but the fact that Hulk was stopped did alleviate much of her "crime". The same cannot be justify for Magneto, and not just for this movie but also for DOFP and FC.

What? Sokovia situation is all stil Stark
Tons of peoole died
Stark is just as guilty as magneto

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Is it though? I thought she created her weather out of nothing. I mean she can create a hurricane in the middle of the danger room when there is nothing that should be able to draw from in order to do so

I'm annoyed that they never actually said what Storm's abilities are. This was supposed to be a reintroduction of the character. They just *assumed* viewing audiences would know. Stuff like this is what the critics hammered them on: talking over the GAs head.

 

[Mad Ones]

I didn't think they've ever said what her abilities are in any of the movies.

 

[Tymminator]

Although it was just a cameo at best, I'll just say I don't buy how they dealt with the Blob.

I want to see the deleted scene of the kids in the mall, I feel it could have been a cool scene.

 

[Raiden]

What? Sokovia situation is all stil Stark
Tons of peoole died
Stark is just as guilty as magneto

And Stark is ridden with guilt, which is why he decided to support the Accord in CW. I doubt Magneto even feel guilty for anything he has done.

 

[Drab87]

Storm's manipulation of weather has consequences (if she forces a downpour in one area, then the rain is taken away from another area, so some crops might be deprived of rain etc etc). Wolverine's claw slashing is hardly acceptable, there are other ways to deal with opponents than stabbing and slicing them to bits, lol...

I've NEVER heard or read this anywhere. I'm almost 100% sure that's not accurate. I do know of another female mutant named Oya, who manipulates temperature (hot & cool) and her power works by heating up one area and causing another to freeze. But I've never read that about Storm.

Oya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oya_(comics)

 

[Nerial]

While Xavier should probably get more than just a slap on the wrist for suppressing Moira's memories against her will, but Magneto killed thousands and he didn't get any punishment at all. Xavier even treated him like he's a hero. That's messed up.

Kinberg doing what Kinberg does best--being inconsistent.

I find it ironic that Xavier took away a few weeks of memories from Moira, (after she expressly told him the CIA was threatening her to give up his location, etc), and it's being treated like he raped her (as someone who knows several women who have been assaulted, the easy-breezy use of this word on this thread sickens me).

But Magneto literally murders thousands of people, far more that Apocalypse did on his own...and everyone his praising him for turning on Apocalypse at the very last second?

Did all of us watch the same movie?

Oh, and one more thing--I don't give a hot mess what they did in the comics. This is the movie-verse and these characters have their own arcs and morals. Perfect example is how the Phoenix is an alien entity in the comics but not in the movies. Or how Jean is dead in the comics and Scott was sleeping with Emma Frost. I'm watching the movies, not reading the stupid comics.

 

[PelvicSorcery]

Overall this was just very underwhelming and unimaginative. There isn't really one scene that wasn't something we haven't already seen in the other films before, and it just felt lazy and drab.

Things I liked:

-Tye, Sophie, and Kodi were all good. I wouldn't mind seeing them return in a better film.
-Costumes and action sequences felt more "X-Men" than past films.
-The pyramid settings made for unique set pieces in a film like this.

Things I didn't like:

-Most of the action in the trailers was in the last 20 minutes. I thought it would be more spread out even though I know that's not really the style of these films.
-Apocalypse turned out to be kind of a bore. I was really hopeful he'd be a great and memorable villain, and he definitely could have with better writing, but it was just blah. What a disappointment and waste of Oscar Isaac.
-Apocalypse absorbing the tv - LOL so cheesy
-The horsemen's motivations were unclear. I didn't understand why any of them joined Apocalypse, especially since he was kind of boring and unconvincing.
-Quicksilver's "funny" scene was completely forced and overlong this time. If they're going to do the same gimmick in every film he appears in, it's going to have diminishing returns each time.
-Quicksilver searching for his father storyline. Also forced and hardly developed enough to care. I just don't like this character anymore.
-Jennifer Lawrence seems as bored with Mystique as I am. The hero worship of her was even worse than I imagined! LOL at that lingering shot of Storm's Mystique poster.
-More women of color sidelined for the more "marketable" stars. Poor Jubilee, Psylocke, and once again, Storm.
-Havok's death came out of nowhere and was quickly forgotten about.
-I agree that Xavier's relationship with Moira is coming off kind of creepy. Moira didn't really need to be in this film at all really.
-Hate the Beast Hulk but the makeup is so awful it made me wish he'd stay in his human form.
-Really didn't need more shoehorned Wolverine. That would have been a good moment to show the other X-Men growing into their powers and working as a team, but no, we needed Wolverine to inadvertently save the day.

 

[Raiden]

Kinberg doing what Kinberg does best--being inconsistent.

I find it ironic that Xavier took away a few weeks of memories from Moira, (after she expressly told him the CIA was threatening her to give up his location, etc), and it's being treated like he raped her (as someone who knows several women who have been assaulted, the easy-breezy use of this word on this thread sickens me).

But Magneto literally murders thousands of people, far more that Apocalypse did on his own...and everyone his praising him for turning on Apocalypse at the very last second?

Did all of us watch the same movie?

Oh, and one more thing--I don't give a hot mess what they did in the comics. This is the movie-verse and these characters have their own arcs and morals. Perfect example is how the Phoenix is an alien entity in the comics but not in the movies. Or how Jean is dead in the comics and Scott was sleeping with Emma Frost. I'm watching the movies, not reading the stupid comics.

I think that's because ever since FC, they've been trying hard to make Magneto more of an anti-hero than a villain, who has a redemption arc which he supposedly fulfilled by turning against Apocalypse. But of course they will sweep all the deaths he created under the rug to make it happen, and it will never be brought up again.

 

[First Avenger]

You'll notice that Ratner actually addressed the issue though. He did not treat it as a joke or a romantic gesture. It was treated as a violation of Jean's autonomy, is it should have been treated.

You can laugh all you want, but Charles entered Moira, against her will and used his power's to take advantage of her. Was Jessica Jones not raped because she was consenting (due to psychic control)?

Holy...you're right. That never crossed my mind. O.O

 

[bes628]

OK movie, Id give 6 out of 10. They played this movie impossibly safe. Other than the Quicksilver Shot and the Opening, There was hardly any spectacle to it.