Wolverine and the X-men: Episode 24: "Foresight part 1"

More review & thoughts on the 3 part finale:

Meanwhile, awkwardly paced in a future that almost doesn't matter anymore, Future Wolverine, whose hair is a little spikier and his clothes a little holier ("Full of holes, y'know, holy" as Robin said in BATMAN FOREVER) shows up to rescue Xavier and his team from Master Mold. He's backed up by the only team he seems able to tolerate and lead most efficiently; a half dozen clones of HIMSELF. That's right, if you thought X-23 was awesome before, then SIX of her has to be X-AWESOME, huh? Logan even calls one "Laura". What a shock, an L name. As one of the many people who was hardly thrilled with X-23 back in Evolution and has seen her as a waste of a character years later, I was only mildly annoyed. With Logan turning the tide of battle at their darkest hour like Optimus Prime, Future Xavier asks him what was the missing strategy that doomed the world twenty years ago, the one detail they missed. Future Logan sighs and replies, basically, himself.

That's right, folks, the entire crux of the future is that Logan chose not to trust Frost at a key moment, and that doomed the world to Pheonix's wrath. How that exactly led to Master Mold then running the world only makes sense to those seeking a No-Prize from Marvel Editorial. Furthermore, how did any of this mean it was a good idea to have Logan lead the team rather than, say, Beast, who was already at the damn Mansion? Any X-Man would have just followed whatever orders Future X gave them, and I dare say Beast would have been far more level headed. While he did sort of co-lead with Logan the first few episodes, by episode 5-6 he started taking a back seat as the roster expanded, and that still continued. I suppose with Pheonix having killed the X-Men and most of Genosha, that left no one to oppose Master Mold when she returned, but that really is a shoddy way to try to connect two completely unconnected storylines. It's stretching at best. And what is better is that Future Xavier isn't even perturbed to hear that; he's all like, "well, dem's the brakes, let's take out Master Mold and try to leave a vague hint for your past self". And so with barely any juice in his Cerebro contraption, Future X leaves Logan a message of "trust" before fizzling out.

Back at the Clubhouse, Frost leads her dynamic duo alongside Cyclops against her teammates, and they are quickly overwhelmed. Frost surrenders after Selene holds Scott hostage with her lifeforce draining powers, and seeks to crush their spirit by revealing that Frost and the Cuckoos were the ones who caused Jean to "explode" a year ago, that Frost deliberately planted the comatose Xavier on Gensosha so she could "earn" her spot on the team by finding him, and that she was a mole all along. Saddened, Scott mumbles, "was everything a lie?" and Frost regretfully replies, "Not everything." Unfortunately, contrary to Frost's wishes, Shaw asked the Cuckoos to continue with the process of unlocking the Phoenix from Jean without Emma's assistance, and quickly the five are possessed by the Phoenix, donning costumes that will be of no importance to anyone who isn't an X-Men fan and homaging either WARSONG or ENDSONG from the comics. This caves the roof around everyone and scatters the Club; before the final sacrifice, Frost once again has some of the few genuinely touching and powerful moments of the finale to herself when she moves near Cyclops' semi-conscious body and begs him not to leave her. By now, though, Jean is awake and very pissed off at Frost. She uses her TK to bind Frost to a wall with some metal pipes, and the two ditch her to try to stop the Phoenix. Jean is prepared to sacrifice herself to stop the Phoenix's wrath, a plan that Cyclops deems out of the question, as he naturally seeks to destroy the entity himself.

They leave Frost behind, and I did like that the show got her powers right, nothing that her diamond form makes her invulnerable, but not any stronger than she normally is (only strong enough to move in her diamond form). They also stated specifically a few times over the course of the show that Frost can't use her telepathy in diamond form; see, explaining powers doesn't have to be THAT hard. At this point Logan shows up and in a scene heavily edited, considers either leaving Frost there or outright murdering her. In the end, Future Xavier's vague hint seems to do the trick, as he decides to "trust" Frost, perhaps as Cyclops once did.

The X-Men meanwhile fight off the Sentinels, although the scene where they announce their hunt against humans was pretty good and dramatic, a nice role reversal of the horror that they deal to mutants. Despite Magneto controlling them, the Sentinels put up no more fight against the X-Men than usual, and most of the X-Men can down at least one by themselves at this point (unlike "Backlash", when they seemed to barely be able to handle about five). Kitty Pryde and Nightcrawler probably get some of the most memorable sequences, and Rogue "borrows" some of Iceman's powers in mid-battle to save a falling Beast from one of Magneto's attacks. You would think this would have some extra oomph, a founding X-Man once again dueling the Master of Magnetism, but nope, just mundane, no time for that stuff. The Phoenix then comes out of nowhere and starts smashing both Sentinels and Magneto alike, with only Quicksilver saving Magnus from a nasty fall. Having been dwarfed by their power, Magneto finally has some remorse for his decision, even if he really had NOTHING to do with the Phoenix and could never have anticipated it. His escalation of the Sentinel war had NOTHING to do with Frost kidnapping Jean and the Club unleashing the Phoenix; NOTHING. The only connection you could claim is the X-Men maybe would have been able to stop the Club had they not been preoccupied by Sentinels, but again, that is a friggin' stretch to connect two unrelated stories.

To Cyclops' credit, he genuinely tries to blast at Phoenix and to destroy it, but of course he is swatted aside by the Cosmic PMS Bird rather easily. I mean there's no way anyone can really stop it if they aren't a powerful psychic. Seeking to undo her sins, Frost takes the absorbing blow for Jean, sucking the power away from her Cuckoos and containing it into her diamond form. Saying a final farewell to Cyclops, she starts to crack and then shatter into pieces, on screen. To say it was a sad end for her is an understatement. Her only crime was falling in love with a completely unworthy man, who only saw her as a means to an end to find his REAL girlfriend. To this day I have no idea what the hell Frost saw in Cyclops, only that she had far better chemistry with him than Jean, or any character had with him really. She was the only one who didn't abandon him emotionally, or who not only wanted to actually understand Cyclops' pain, but was willing to actually do something to, gasp, remove it from him, rather than just giving lectures or ignoring him. While Cyclops did trust her, in the end he's too busy hugging Jean to give more than an over-the-shoulder look at Frost's demise. The X-Men don't seem to mourn her loss or sacrifice a scene later, either. They're all like, "Hooray, we saved the world, our token red-head, and Zordon is pleased with us! Milk-shakes for all!" And that has been a problem for me with this series; these are the least compassionate X-Men ever. Angel has turned into a vicious warrior and aside for one scene with Logan and Storm, the rest don't even care. Kitty and Kurt used to have some sort of dynamic with Colossus at the start of the show; yet never in the heat of a hard battle does either kind of mumble, "Isn't it shame that Piotr's not here?" No one on the X-Men beyond the INNER CIRCLE MOLE gave two turds about Cyclops even when he was borderline suicidal. And now Frost saved the world at the cost of her own life, and a second later it's as if she was just bruised or something.

In fact, the notion of Rogue forgiving Logan for abandoning the team from the start of the season, which should be a big, grand moment, instead almost feels tacked on, included by obligation, and is over in about ten seconds. Considering this was one of the show's interesting and rarely developed character conflicts, it seemed a bit wasted to be resolved so quickly and cleanly. There simply may not have been enough time, but that is my point; there could have been if this stuff was paced differently, if this sort of stuff wasn't seen as a hinderence to action or a complicated storyline.

You can't sacrifice emotion and character interaction for action spectacules. Without that investment, even the best action will feel flatter or less important than it should. Some things you can't shortcut.

The future team manages to fight Master Mold (trading Hellion for Polaris), but aside for some nice power moves it doesn't add much to the story but more smashing, which is fine enough, but nice smashing still has to have a point. Despite having 26 episodes instead of 13 for a season, this finale seemed very crammed.

Future Xavier/Zordon (I'm sorry, he looks SO much like Zordon sometimes) congratulates the X-Men and of course Wolverine for saving the world, but warns that while the future is free of Master Mold, there now is a new threat to have to deal with; the Age of Apocalypse, where floating pyramids hover over cities, Mr. Sinister and Cyclops are his right hand agents, and Apocalypse's head looks like Kingpin's with facepaint. A mostly good and faithful rendition of the design I suppose, which may get better when the animators have more practice with it; I just thought his head looked awkward. EVOLUTION's Apocalypse had a more unique design, but everyone wants the awesome shoulderpads, the grey tubing, and an "A" somewhere.

Frankly, the whole Future Xavier thing seemed like the ghost of a former draft that should have been removed. It basically took a lot of drama and pressure of Logan actually leading the team, because he didn't really lead it. He followed Xavier's orders. It seemed a way of the crew wanting to have their cake and eat it to; removing Xavier to give a reason why Logan has to rally the team without Cyclops or Storm, but still keeping him for vital exposition or Logan ego rubbing. It didn't work as well as it could have. And now the hint that they will basically be doing the same thing again, only swapping Master Mold for Apocalypse, seems kind of lazy. Hopefully Future X is dispatched quickly, thus forcing the X-Men to actually operate without him.

Scarlet Witch takes over Genosha, and has Blink banish Magneto and Quicksilver from it. Presumably they will be leading the other Brotherhood mooks in Season 2.

And for those who look at the Age of Apocalypse from the comics and go, "Gee, this will be a big thing for Cyclops, as he was undermining Apocalypse from within and was uber pivotal at the end, and it likely won't be Good Wolverine vs. Evil Cyclops like many of you haters fear", all I say is that you are horribly naive. This show has bent over backwards to prove that Wolverine is physically and morally superior to every X-Man possible, especially Cyclops. This show would give nothing less than to have a clear cut example of Good Wolverine vs. Evil Cyclops, and I doubt AOA will be a temptation they will resist. We may get a cool fight out of it, at least. If this season has proven anything, is that this is a show for those who think character development is for sissies, that the real game is sagas, punching, and sagas that involve punching. Whatever character focus and development there is must come after the checklist of "events" have already happened.

The characters that were well fleshed to the point of being understood, even if not always sympathetic, were Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Frost, Cyclops, Scarlet Witch, and Magneto. To a lessor extent, Angel, whose fall from grace was properly developped, and Rogue was fine until about 2/3rds into the season when she rejoined the X-Men and then did little else. Everyone else had some defining moments and some fun lines now and again, but weren't as defined. Despite an origin episode, Storm was almost a non-entity. Jean was a walking Maguffin.

The finale was in a Catch 22 in a way. Had they killed off Jean rather than Frost, it would have been truer to the current comic dynamic, and left Scott with a better developed girlfriend for season two, but it would have felt flat because Jean wasn't enough of a character (even if Jennifer Hale played her exceedingly well) to care about. Having sacrificed Frost for a twist gave us a death that had more punch and meaning, but left us with a stale, boring romantic couple, and a Cyclops who, intentionally or not, appears to be a cad. In the comic books, naturally, Frost was shattered but was saved; her psyche was still floating about, and Jean used TK to piece her together (albeit with budding Phoenix power), so considering this wasn't the end for Frost in the comics, it may be possible that she will return in Season 2. Criag Kyle likes "dark chicks" in that way, such as Enchantress, and I can't imagine him leaving Frost dead forever in a series he has a lot of creative sway over. It would have been far more interesting to have Scott move on with Frost rather than always fall into Jean's arms. It was bittersweet when they basically did the same thing in X-MEN EVOLUTION, although Rogue's crush wasn't as blatently obvious as Frost's love was here (Rogue was more introverted). Despite Hale's performance, I have little interest in Jean, and Season 2 will be an uphill battle to prove why she was more deserving of a future than Frost, considering she spent much of the season off camera, or with amnesia, or wrathing in agony to unleash the Threat of the Month.

Plus, what was the point of the Hulk fight episode, beyond fan *******? Why out of anything to have Nightcrawler fight for two episodes, was it Mojo? Why did we need two Weapon X episodes when only one was good? And as much as I may have enjoyed the Silver Samurai episode, that one really does look like filler now.

My final grade of the show as a season is B. There is enough goodness in it to avoid being tagged as average at B-, but too much wasted potential or busy plots to really evolve it past B+ territory beyond a few standout episodes. Maybe season 2 will make this look better. X-MEN EVOLUTION wasn't "great" until the end of their second season, which was around episode 29 or so. But that show had deeply developed characters who were well fleshed and defined, so one could forgive some of the mundane or weak plots because the characters in them were worth following anyway. W&TXM was nothing without it's fights and sagas. Maybe that is what the X-Men have been in the past, but I did wish to see a better blend of the event-style stuff of the 90's show with the deep rich pathos of Evolution. This season didn't accomplish that balance.

It is a frustrating show to review and watch, but this show IS a good show, better than average and better than many on TV, including BATMAN BRAVE AND THE BOLD. It isn't a great show, not yet anyway, and especially not when SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN is airing. It isn't the animation or the acting that are hinderances; in fact both are highlights. It's the writing that needs to step up.
 
Last edited:
This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. I must say you always manage to hit the nail on the head. CHARACTER is definitely the key.
 
To compare this to the 90s show, by the 26th episode ("Reunion Part II"), I had far more attachment to the cast (apart from Jubilee, who was annoying). I think there was a bit too much solo stuff or diversions to the fringes of the mythos before they'd really established the team as a team with lots of interacting characters; indeed, most episodes don't even have the whole team.

Now, this is a good show, but there's a ton of stuff that could have been done much better. They gave us the best Nightcrawler and Scarlet Witch yet animated, but huge amounts of the regular team (Kitty, Iceman, Beast, Forge, Cyclops, Storm) are barely there most of the time.
 
The finale was kind of a let down it was too much in so little time,but overall the season was well done.

The way magneto just gave up and left was not well done but I like that he is now banished from Genosha. Asteroid M??

Emma Frost sacrificing herself was different but the Dark Phoenix saga felt so rushed, the old x-men TAS done it way better. The X-men only need one Telepath on the team so it is highly doubtful she will be back. The phoenix is gone so jean can't do anything about reviving Emma, maybe the writers might bring her back but that would be a bad move because I thought her side of the story is done. They should bring in new villains and characters, colossus?. Its good to see Jean back with all the X-men standing in front of Xavier, he was very happy to welcome back jean. With jean back that adds a new dynamic to the team, Cyclops should get back to form with her back with him.
 
The X-men only need one Telepath on the team so it is highly doubtful she will be back. The phoenix is gone so jean can't do anything about reviving Emma, maybe the writers might bring her back but that would be a bad move because I thought her side of the story is done.
To the first point, that's never stopped Professor X and Jean from both being around. Since the writers make the rules, there's no reason the Phoenix would be necessary like in the comics (personally, I'd have Sinister gather all the pieces and put her back together as a Horseman).
 
Considering this exact thing has happened before to Emma in the past, I'd say it's a very strong possibility she will be back.
 
I doubt Emma will come back though simply because her role as it pertains to the story was completed. What would they do with her if they resurrected her?
 
Bring her back to have her back on the team or maybe use her as a driving force between Cyc and Jean?
 
The thing is. In the comics, the Phoenix force is NEVER gone for good.

And Emma could still get together with Scott at some point.
 
Season 2 features Age of Apocalypse? Wow, bring it on bc thats gonna be interesting

Bring her back to have her back on the team or maybe use her as a driving force between Cyc and Jean?
There really wasnt much of an attraction for Emma on Scott's part. This series showed that he clearly loved Jean and was focused on her. I dont think Emma returning would be much of a factor for their relationship.
 
Last edited:
After her sacrifice, maybe it would; he wasn't really aware she was attracted to him until the very end.
 
To this day I have no idea what the hell Frost saw in Cyclops, only that she had far better chemistry with him than Jean, or any character had with him really. She was the only one who didn't abandon him emotionally, or who not only wanted to actually understand Cyclops' pain, but was willing to actually do something to, gasp, remove it from him, rather than just giving lectures or ignoring him. While Cyclops did trust her, in the end he's too busy hugging Jean to give more than an over-the-shoulder look at Frost's demise. The X-Men don't seem to mourn her loss or sacrifice a scene later, either.


It’s kind of clear why she was willing to stick by him, while others didn’t. Besides the crush-turned-love, the major factor was the guilt. She made Jean go boom and put Professor in a coma. She was the cause of all his pain and suffering; the hell the X-men went through. But Scott was the most she affected. Minimizing his pain would be minimizing her own guilt.

And I was also seriously expecting a scene where X-men mourn Emma’s loss. But in reality, if you think about it, it’s kind of hard to forgive someone like that, even if they sacrifice themselves. The negative always overshadow the positives.

But I’m still expecting a scene where Scott atleast puts flowers at her grave or something in season 2! Or slowly starts to realize that Emma’s eye didn’t wander to another man like Jean’s did. It’s worthy of noting, he did show worry for Emma after she had absorbed the Phoenix and did not run away with Jean as Emma ordered and even protested when Wolvie was trying to drag him away. And it’s definitely great to see him call out a name which isn’t Jean.

As for Emma falling for Scott…… I’m still with Scott’s ability to be so devoted towards his girlfriend. He seems like the guy you can get married to and have a family with. The men Emma appears to be associated with all have the rule-the-world syndrome. And also it might be selfish, but Scott is also the kind of someone who can be easily whipped by a woman :oldrazz:

As for future evil Scott, is it possible that Jean’s flirtation toward Logan, Xavier and Logan’s jerkiness attitude toward Scott, lead to this? Especially with no Emma around to comfort him? I doubt Xavier will realize that letting Logan lead the team only resulted in a worst future than the one before :whatever:

Is there any news on when season 2 will air?
 
Anyone else get an Ultimate X-men vibe in regards to this Phoenix story? The whole setup felt very much like Hellfire and Brimstone
 
Their version of the Hellfire Club being primarily devoted to managing the Phoenix had some overtones of the Ultimate Hellfire Cult, but otherwise it seemed mainly 616-influenced.
 
I agree with the similarity. They did grab some select stuff from Ultimate X-men like that. They kind of picked and choosed multiple continuities, stories, etc.
 
I like the Ultimate version a bit better. Cause you didnt have to deal with Jean/Pheonix dying 20 times and coming back to life.

The idea of Jean controlling the Phoenix and using it for own cause, is just a better idea. Specially when she went one on one against Apoc in the comics.
 
It wasnt just the Hellfire stuff but the plot with Magneto and the sentinels at the same time much like Return of the King happening right after the Phoenix story

Oh and I hated that X-23 was a bunch of clones. I was looking to seeing her but she lost all sense of individuality appearing how she or better yet they did.
 
Thats just a version of X-23 though, still not the concrete version we get in the present timeline.
 
okay did no one else notice that MasterMold looks EXACTLY like the Danger Room from Astonishing X-Men?

anyway, I LOVED how they did this. I have so many nitpicks but they don't outweigh the fun ride i was taken on while watching this series.

I felt that gambit was portrayed nicely, nightcrawler was done well, aside from teh lack of his faith being played out which TAS will always be top notch for pulling it off just right.

anyone notice they didnt let Apocalypse speak? lol just in case they change up voices for the next season.


TAS spoiled me a LOT on voices. the only voice i will never accept is any incarnation of wolverine other than TAS. Everyone else sounds "forced" or like they are trying hard to sound like TAS but not trying.
 
Last edited:
Well Apocalypse didn't even have a voice this season, so there really wouldn't be a change period.
 
This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. I must say you always manage to hit the nail on the head. CHARACTER is definitely the key.

Thanks. Yeah, I thought that characterization definitely took a back seat this season. You can't have most of the cast sit out some 2-4 episodes at a time and then hope a focus one on maybe one of them every now and then makes it up. It usually just seems choppy.

Compare it to a show that usually tries to flesh out even the most minor of supporting characters, like SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, and it really makes some of the character depth in this show seem very shallow.

It is a shame; TheVileOne once boasted this show as having "the best voice cast of any X-Men show", and while I won't agree yet, they all were incredibly good actors giving great performances. The animation models were usually solid, with a good animation budget. Some of the fight sequences were boarded a bit generically, but that just meant it couldn't be THE BATMAN, which relied EXCLUSIVELY on awesome fights for many episodes. It is the writing that definitely was the show's Achilles Heel, and needs to be improved upon in Season 2.

Having full access to the X-Men library without Kid's WB or Cartoon Network breathing down a writing team's collective neck can make them perhaps feel like kids in a candy store, but that isn't a cohesive unit; that's a sugar high. Hopefully, now that a season is in the can and the show is a commercial hit, there is some settling down and ironing out the kinks.

Frankly, the strength of X-MEN EVOLUTION was that it kept things simple. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, like many of the films and even the 90's show at some later junctures, just tries to handle five things at once, and sometimes that can't be juggled well.

To compare this to the 90s show, by the 26th episode ("Reunion Part II"), I had far more attachment to the cast (apart from Jubilee, who was annoying). I think there was a bit too much solo stuff or diversions to the fringes of the mythos before they'd really established the team as a team with lots of interacting characters; indeed, most episodes don't even have the whole team.

Now, this is a good show, but there's a ton of stuff that could have been done much better. They gave us the best Nightcrawler and Scarlet Witch yet animated, but huge amounts of the regular team (Kitty, Iceman, Beast, Forge, Cyclops, Storm) are barely there most of the time.

Having rewatched the 90's show recently, I don't think it gets enough credit for it's ability to juggle it's cast of some 7-8 characters relatively well. Yes, Wolverine starts to move towards the center by Season 4, but he often has to share many episodes with Beast and/or Rogue at the least, and often Storm, Jubilee, or even Cyclops. Out of that central cast, only Gambit was usually the most neglected, with only a single solo episode and stretches of time being MIA or doing little beyond a Cajun one-liner after Season 2.

Even some of the guest characters were written well. Colossus and Nightcrawler both only showed up in a single episode each, a season apart (Colossus in seasons 1 and 2, Nightcrawler in seasons 4 and 5), but both usually were fleshed out competently and even given character dilemmas to sort through. In a single episode, I know Iceman better from the 90's show than in all his appearances in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN.

Yes, Jubliee is annoying, but much of the dialogue was a product of it's time; EVERYONE had some painfully choppy and cliched dialogue by today's standards, especially Storm and Rogue. If anything, I appreciate that both X-MEN EVOLUTION and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN had their characters, especially Storm, talk like real people and not comic book characters, like the 90's show did.

All I can hope is that the production team will objectively look at Season 1 as a success, but a major learning experience.

Considering this exact thing has happened before to Emma in the past, I'd say it's a very strong possibility she will be back.

I doubt Frost will be dead forever. Not only did being shattered fail to kill her in the comics, but Kyle seems to have a definite soft spot for "bad girl" type heroines (not that Frost was really evil here anyway, but definitely darker than the pure-as-silk Jean). During the HULK VS. THOR commentary it was very clear he found Enchantress more appealing and interesting than Sif, and had he more control of Thor might even have the two date (the story was mostly written by Yost and Paur).

Besides, X-MEN EVOLUTION fans will remember that "statue" of Mystique being seemingly broken and her "killed", and that was hardly permanent. Boy, was that dramatic, though. I still can't believe Rogue pushed her, that Kurt couldn't 'port in time...oh, well. Ancient history.

I may make a post expanding on this in another topic, but from a writing perspective, getting to play with both Jean and Frost in the same Mansion should be impossible to resist for 26 episodes.

It’s kind of clear why she was willing to stick by him, while others didn’t. Besides the crush-turned-love, the major factor was the guilt. She made Jean go boom and put Professor in a coma. She was the cause of all his pain and suffering; the hell the X-men went through. But Scott was the most she affected. Minimizing his pain would be minimizing her own guilt.

I missed that completely in my criticisms/analysis, but you're right. Guilt is of course a part of Frost's character, which came up during her GENERATION X days and was supposedly the focus of TORN from Joss Whedon (when he wasn't distracted with his poofy Logan bits). Still, I do get the idea that Frost was there to do a job but ended up caring more than she expected for the X-Men in general and Cyclops in particular. She literally destroyed his life, even if his life was a fragile farce to begin with. Ironic that she was thus the only one who CARED about Scott's destroyed life, beyond lectures or guilt trips.

Cyma said:
And I was also seriously expecting a scene where X-men mourn Emma’s loss. But in reality, if you think about it, it’s kind of hard to forgive someone like that, even if they sacrifice themselves. The negative always overshadow the positives.

I disagree. There is always time for a "they redeemed themselves at the end" sort of ends for a so-called villain. I have seen it done in cartoons too many times. Hell, in "THE JUGGERNAUT RETURNS" in the 90's series, they found enough time to showcase the X-Men being astonished that the Juggernaut is showing thanks to Charles for saving his life by ceasing his attack and leaving them alone. "HIS SILICON SOUL" from B:TAS found a minute or two for Batman to show remorse that his robotic duplicate chose to destroy itself once it thought it killed someone, and sacrificed itself to stop it's creator HARDAC from reviving. Even as recently in Season 2 of SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, an episode found a moment to
have Spider-Man appreciate Sandman changing his tune when he saw his "biggest score" would have killed a crew of sailors, and chose to save them all and "sacrifice" himself to stop the exploding rig. Up until that point, Sandman had been a perennial menace and enemy of Spidey.

No, if priorities are straight, there is always time to show characters CARING. The series finale for EVOLUTION showed that.

Even W&TXM showed that, to show everyone mourning the sacrifice of Rover, and wasn't even a person. :p

Cyma said:
But I’m still expecting a scene where Scott atleast puts flowers at her grave or something in season 2! Or slowly starts to realize that Emma’s eye didn’t wander to another man like Jean’s did. It’s worthy of noting, he did show worry for Emma after she had absorbed the Phoenix and did not run away with Jean as Emma ordered and even protested when Wolvie was trying to drag him away. And it’s definitely great to see him call out a name which isn’t Jean.

Cyclops above everyone else should morn Frost the most. She was literally the only one in that Mansion or across time who didn't give up on him or saw any worth in him at all...aside for Mr. Sinister, of course. Wolverine usually dismissed Scott as a useless emotional mess, which he usually was, and the rest were usually distant.

With Jean back, in theory there should be no reason for Logan to lead the team, but thanks to episode 20, I can understand why; according to that, Cyclops was only a tinpot, token, unearned leader. It makes perfect sense for Logan to take the position he "earned".

Cyclops showed some concern for Frost, but even at the end he was all about cuddling Jean. I don't think he ever really realized that Frost loved him until she blew up, which is more oblivious than Peter Parker. And, for the record, no male character in the history of human existence is more oblivious than Peter Parker. ;)

Cyma said:
As for Emma falling for Scott…… I’m still with Scott’s ability to be so devoted towards his girlfriend. He seems like the guy you can get married to and have a family with. The men Emma appears to be associated with all have the rule-the-world syndrome. And also it might be selfish, but Scott is also the kind of someone who can be easily whipped by a woman :oldrazz:

All true. Once Scott bonds, he's obsessed unto death, apparently. It did put Frost into a Catch-22, though, having to reunite Scott with his beloved, for which he forsakes any other desire or duty, even sometimes shaving.

Still, Frost would have been better for him. She's more assertive. She wouldn't make Scott promise not to bend any of Logan's biker hair. :p She'd probably cheer him on. At least from Whedon's AXM, Frost seemed most attracted to Scott when he was being assertive and stoic. Just a shame he rarely was in this series.

Cyma said:
As for future evil Scott, is it possible that Jean’s flirtation toward Logan, Xavier and Logan’s jerkiness attitude toward Scott, lead to this? Especially with no Emma around to comfort him? I doubt Xavier will realize that letting Logan lead the team only resulted in a worst future than the one before :whatever:

Is there any news on when season 2 will air?

If Scott becomes evil, it won't be stated as from anything Wolverine did. This show has bent over backwards to make him sympathetic at every turn, and usually the victim of someone other creep's actions, manipulations, favoritism, or some other raw deal. He may call himself a "monster", but none of his actions or motives are ever monstrous.

W&TXM have usually painted Cyclops as needy and weak, which are unappealing traits in a man especially (at least to other men). Fast money is on him selling his soul to Mr. Sinister to revive Frost or something else.

As for whether the Age of Apocalypse is worse than the Age of Master Mold, we'll have to wait until next season. The X-Men never seem able to escape some hellish future where they're all dead and one of their villains controls everything, though.

If anything, Cyclops was acting a bit akin to King Kong at times, going on rampages without his lady....

It was approved late last year, so it may be a while; animation is a long process. I would be surprised if we saw any of Season 2 before 2010 beyond promo footage and whatnot, considering Season 1 officially started in 2009 in the states.

Anyone else get an Ultimate X-men vibe in regards to this Phoenix story? The whole setup felt very much like Hellfire and Brimstone

There were a few allusions to the Ultimate comics. I did get a vibe from some of Millar's launch run, as well as an almost word for word recreation of some panels of Ult. XM #5 I think.

Frankly, W&TXM may have inherited a flaw from Mark Millar's run on Ultimate X-Men; the ability to write a good lead up, and then be hit or miss on the climax.

That's her name in the comics.

I know, I was just noting the L commonality. Just like Cyclops named his kid...uh, Nathan. Nevermind.

okay did no one else notice that MasterMold looks EXACTLY like the Danger Room from Astonishing X-Men?

Yeah, I thought they merged Master Mold with Whedon & Cassaday's Danger character rather well. Master Mold was kind of generic in the 90's series to be honest and this was a very good reboot of the concept. A machine that "births" robots should be symbolically a woman, right?
 
Last edited:
I think Dread's arguments are well written though he lets his bias and markdom for Cyclops delude him and cloud his judgement.

Regarding Emma. I don't see what else the X-men could have done. I think Wolverine and Cyclops were both clearly stunned and/or saddened by her unselfish sacrifice. And it was really Emma's only unselfish act in the course of the show unless if you consider it was the only way for Scott to forgive her and not hate her. Sure the X-men could've mourned and felt sorry about her more. But none of what happened to them in the last year would've happened at all if not for Emma Frost. The dark future with Zordon Xavier or whatever was brought about by Emma and the Hellfire club's actions. The triggering of Jean's Phoenix powers. Xavier's coma. The destruction of the mansion. The disbanding of the X-men and the fall from grace for Scott. Emma had a part in all of it.

I know Dread likes to nitpick so much, but all the thought and things he is over thinking about were not necessarily crucial or important in the series. Scott is so terrible for not giving Emma the time of day but . . . that's the point. Emma in the end truly did care about Scott and did try to redeem herself even though Scott still loved and was devoted to Jean. Emma's a telepath. Meaning she can sense and feel Scott's pain and anger. So in working with Scott she would feel Scott's loss more than anyone. When Emma talked about Scott being a good person, I don't think she was being dishonest at all, I think that's how she truly feels about Scott and I think that's why she liked Scott.

And yet all Dread seems to think about how Cyclops wouldn't jump into bed with her fragmented corpse. I think what Dread really wanted was a moment with Beast picking up her broken pieces and putting them back together with Cyclops looking on saying, "Soon Emma, my darling." I mean seriously, I'm sure Cyclops did feel some sadness over what happened, but again all of it happened because of the same woman and he got the woman he loves back.

When Emma does come back, I imagine there will be plenty of room for some dramatic tension between Jean, Emma, and Scott. Because when she does come back, where do you expect her to go? Not the Hellfire Club. And when she goes back to the X-men it will be a matter of, well she did put us through a year of hell but she did sort of make up for it and got shattered to pieces as a result.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
201,638
Messages
21,998,201
Members
45,795
Latest member
TheImmortalDan
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"