Wonder Woman - Review Thread [TAG SPOILERS]

[sf2]

Ares influence manipulated humans to continue their war, he didn't start the war, humans did that themselves.

Ares wanted greater destruction, more conflict, no peace. The reasons to fight war was man's creation.



Except it isn't, the lasso works on everyone.







So is Ras al Ghul and Joker. Comic book villains are like that.




Not many people knew what Dr. Maru and Ludendorf were upto, all were just waiting for the Armistice to be signed next day, many on English side didn't even knew about the new poison gas. Their plan could have worked as they were counting on element of surprise attack.

She was so devastated after killing Ludendorf until she refused to help Steve. She thought she was wrong.

Shouldn't she feel excited to see ARES... because she was right, ARES was still alive and wasn't killed.!!! human are poisoned by HIM!!!

shouldn't she get motivated and excited again to kill him??? why confusing??? why doubting her childish believe at the very last moment??? so the enlightenment came from ARES??? because of the lasso interrogation??? lol



i thought they could do better than that.


got it now???


anyway, it is just a standard movie, no big surprise and no big wow. just being blown out of proportion...

 

[sf2]

What would the British have stopped it with? It's not like the British had squadrons of Spitfires to attack the bomber. The British had enough trouble trying to stop big, slow moving Zeppelins from bombing London in WW1.
A four engine prop driven bomber would have been a much harder target to catch up with and hit.

shoulder-fired missiles, portable missiles, anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons??? not invented yet???


btw, was German against England or Russia during WW1??? lol

 

[Micromind]

She was so devastated after killing Ludendorf until she refused to help Steve. She thought she was wrong.

Shouldn't she feel excited to see ARES... because she was right, ARES was still alive and wasn't killed.!!! human are poisoned by HIM!!!

shouldn't she get motivated and excited again to kill him??? why confusing??? why doubting her childish believe at the very last moment??? so the enlightenment came from ARES??? because of the lasso interrogation??? lol



i thought they could do better than that.


got it now???

She killed Ludendorf thinking that he was Ares but the war continued, she was confused why the war hadn't ended, Diana realized that maybe Ares was not the only reason why humans were fighting, maybe they were not as good, noble people she thought they were initially.

In her conversation with Steve Trevor about this subject, Steve replies "We are All to blame", which tells her that humans have both good and bad within them.

So, when WW sees Ares, she wants him to tell her the truth, which is why she wraps the lasso around him to compel him to tell her the facts.

She learns that Ares is manipulating humans to fight with each other and poisoning the minds of generals but she also learns that humans themselves are also responsible for those wars, so killing Ares is not the full solution to stop the War. Killing Ares will just prevent further escalation of the War.

Her initial childish convictions are now replaced by more pragmatic convictions. How can they (filmmakers) do better than that ?

 

[sf2]

She killed Ludendorf thinking that he was Ares but the war continued, she was confused why the war hadn't ended, Diana realized that maybe Ares was not the only reason why humans were fighting, maybe they were not as good, noble people she thought they were initially.

In her conversation with Steve Trevor about this subject, Steve replies "We are All to blame", which tells her that humans have both good and bad within them.

So, when WW sees Ares, she wants him to tell her the truth, which is why she wraps the lasso around him to compel him to tell her the facts.

She learns that Ares is manipulating humans to fight with each other and poisoning the minds of generals but she also learns that humans themselves are also responsible for those wars, so killing Ares is not the full solution to stop the War. Killing Ares will just prevent further escalation of the War.

He initial childish convictions are now replaced by more pragmatic convictions. How can they (filmmakers) do better than that ?

When did she learn that humans themselves are also responsible for those wars??? ARES was still alive. the enlightenment came from where??? her conversation with Steve was prior to ARES.

 

[Willi Berg]

While I think that's a fair review. I personally think that Jenkins handles action scenes deftly, having WW flip around and use various weapons really fast, and using slo-mo for dramatic hits (in an Arkham style/Zack Snyder style).

It's only in the final battle where I think a better combination of fighting styles could have been used.

Spoiler

Having the final villain be beat down rather than merely redirected with powers would be more exciting, imho.

It would be good in the future for WW to have an extended beat down fight with a villain or mythological creature. Using her lasso extensively, as well as hand-to-hand combat.

 

[Micromind]

When did she learn that humans themselves are also responsible for those wars??? ARES was still alive. the enlightenment came from where??? her conversation with Steve was prior to ARES.

Yes, her conversation with Steve was prior to meeting with 'real' Ares but Steve did say that humans were also to blame for War, he say (something like) "I wish I could tell you that it's all happening due to One bad Guy but it isn't, we are to blamed (for War)"

That made her question her earlier logic, so she wanted to know more, which is why she listened to what Ares had to say.

 

[sf2]

Yes, her conversation with Steve was prior to meeting with 'real' Ares but Steve did say that humans were also to blame for War, he say (something like) "I wish I could tell you that it's all happening due to One bad Guy but it isn't, we are to blamed (for War)"

That made her question her earlier logic, so she wanted to know more, which is why she listened to what Ares had to say.

Didn't he say about the same earlier before she walked into the battlefield? i mean it all made sense until ARES appeared.

if one has a childish notion / belief, she needs cold, cruel and hard fact to strike her great enough to awake her.

i wish she didn't kill Ludendorf. She killed ARES instead. only then when she saw people were still fighting and killing each other right before her eyes, she would realise how naive and childish she was. you know like a child (though she is a very adult) seeing adults doing the most awful things...

then she can say the line "walk away from the horror of mankind a century ago..." sorta.

 

[Micromind]

Didn't he say about the same earlier before she walked into the battlefield? i mean it all made sense until ARES appeared.

if one has a childish notion / belief, she needs cold, cruel and hard fact to strike her great enough to awake her.

i wish she didn't kill Ludendorf. She killed ARES instead. only then when she saw people were still fighting and killing each other right before her eyes, she would realise how naive and childish she was. you know like a child (though she is a very adult) seeing adults doing the most awful things...

then she can say the line "walk away from the horror of mankind a century ago..." sorta.

She didn't 'walk away' in a literal sense.. I think this post from MissLane38 addresses this point -

The epilogue tells you all you need to know:

I used to want to save the world. To end war and bring peace to mankind. But then, I glimpsed the darkness that lives within their light. I learned that inside every one of them, there will always be both. The choice each must make for themselves - something no hero will ever defeat. And now I know... that only love can truly save the world. So I stay. I fight, and I give... for the world I know can be. This is my mission now. Forever.

That's all.

 

[Mach2Infinity]

Didn't he say about the same earlier before she walked into the battlefield? i mean it all made sense until ARES appeared.

if one has a childish notion / belief, she needs cold, cruel and hard fact to strike her great enough to awake her.

i wish she didn't kill Ludendorf. She killed ARES instead. only then when she saw people were still fighting and killing each other right before her eyes, she would realise how naive and childish she was. you know like a child (though she is a very adult) seeing adults doing the most awful things...

then she can say the line "walk away from the horror of mankind a century ago..." sorta.

It made thematic sense that when she killed Ludendorf she came to realise Ares wasn't the instigator of war. He only encouraged it with manipulation and ideas on weapons of mass destruction.

It was important for Ares to explain his modus operandi because it paints a more starker and complex reality which was necessary for Diana's character growth. She had to learn the hard truth before she could love and embrace humanity despite their faults and believe in their potential for good, love and compassion.

 

[Loki882]

What would the British have stopped it with? It's not like the British had squadrons of Spitfires to attack the bomber. The British had enough trouble trying to stop big, slow moving Zeppelins from bombing London in WW1.
A four engine prop driven bomber would have been a much harder target to catch up with and hit.

Also they address that. If they shoot it down, the gas would still kill every living thing within a 50 square mile radius. And they cannot simply ground it because it's on a timer, so it would just detonate on the airfield and do the same thing.

The movie addresses this openly.

 

[Flemm]

If they shoot it down, the gas would still kill every living thing within a 50 square mile radius.

The only hope would have been that shooting down the plane might have incinerated the gas, rather than releasing it.

But there would have been no way to guarantee that (either the plane getting shot down, or the gas igniting).

So what Steve did made sense, as it was the only way to make sure the plane was destroyed and the flammable gas was ignited, rather than spreading everywhere. By sacrificing himself he removed the variables and was able to ensure that only he would die in the explosion.

 

[Loki882]

He also flew it far enough into the air so that it was out of range (presumably any gas that wasn't incinerated instantly would dissipate into the atmosphere before reaching the ground).

 

[Khaos]

Entertaining to a certain degree, but not what i would call a great film. The novelty factor, the feel good elements and the lack of thematic controversy make it a typical crowd pleaser. But when you break it down to its core, it's really mediocre on almost every level. There's nothing special about the story or the plot. The acting is OK but not memorable. The villain is as weak as you can get. The fighting scenes are nothing we haven't seen before a zillion times. The visuals and cinematography are just more of that same lazy computer generated garbage that half of the time looks like a video game. Some scenes of her walking in slow mo are just cringeworthy. Oh, and talking about slow-mo...you really gotta know how to use it.

6/10. It doesn't give me enough to deserve more.

 

[Loki882]

The acting is FAR better than merely "ok."

I also think that for some people, having a relatively simple/straightforward plot has become like a dirty thought. It's like they think that, in order for a film to be good, it HAS to have a really complicated plot with lots of twists and turns. And well no, some of the best/most entertaining films out there for me can be best summed up as "it's a simple plot, executed really well."

Now that's not to say that having complicated plots/lots of twists is automatically bad either. Because some films pull it off brilliantly. But the thing is, if you don't pull it off well, it often makes your movie look all the worse as a consequence.

Here, there's really only like 3 or 4 things that could be considered "twists." One of which is foreshadowed/hinted at A LOT throughout the film, so when it happens (if you haven't already figured it out by then), most people will probably go "oh, so that's what they kept hinting at, ok that makes sense." And the others will probably have a "ok that also makes sense" or "ok I see why they did it that way" effect on most of the audience as well.

I didn't need a WW origin film to try and radically change how CBM's were made. What I needed was a good film that did Diana justice. And I certainly got that and then some.

 

[sf2]

It made thematic sense that when she killed Ludendorf she came to realise Ares wasn't the instigator of war. He only encouraged it with manipulation and ideas on weapons of mass destruction.

It was important for Ares to explain his modus operandi because it paints a more starker and complex reality which was necessary for Diana's character growth. She had to learn the hard truth before she could love and embrace humanity despite their faults and believe in their potential for good, love and compassion.

I think otherwise. the appearance of ARES will excite her and give her the chance to prove herself right again.


misslane38's quote was only right if there was no BvS... if she didn't appear, do and say the things in BvS.



She doesn't need JL which will tie and restrict her. she can stand on her own.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

shoulder-fired missiles, portable missiles, anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons??? not invented yet???

None of that existed during World War One.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Entertaining to a certain degree, but not what i would call a great film. The novelty factor, the feel good elements and the lack of thematic controversy make it a typical crowd pleaser. But when you break it down to its core, it's really mediocre on almost every level. There's nothing special about the story or the plot. The acting is OK but not memorable. The villain is as weak as you can get. The fighting scenes are nothing we haven't seen before a zillion times. The visuals and cinematography are just more of that same lazy computer generated garbage that half of the time looks like a video game. Some scenes of her walking in slow mo are just cringeworthy. Oh, and talking about slow-mo...you really gotta know how to use it.

6/10. It doesn't give me enough to deserve more.

It's not the ingredients that make a soup good. It is how they a prepared. In the hands of an amateur chicken, carrots, celery, and noodles can turn out terrible. In the hands of a
master chef it is a gourmet meal. Patty Jenkins is the Julia Child of superhero movies.

 

[2kt09]

It's not the ingredients that make a soup good. It is how they a prepared. In the hands of an amateur chicken, carrots, celery, and noodles can turn out terrible. In the hands of a
master chef it is a gourmet meal. Patty Jenkins is the Julia Child of superhero movies.

He/she concluded with the soup doesn't taste that good while breaking down those taste buds. ¯\_(-.-)_/¯

 

[Khaos]

It's not the ingredients that make a soup good. It is how they a prepared. In the hands of an amateur chicken, carrots, celery, and noodles can turn out terrible. In the hands of a
master chef it is a gourmet meal. Patty Jenkins is the Julia Child of superhero movies.

So, basically you're saying you don't agree with me and see the movie as being better than what i think it is? Ok.

To me that soup was bland.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

So, basically you're saying you don't agree with me and see the movie as being better than what i think it is? Ok.

To me that soup was bland.

Obviously I disagree with you. Wonder Woman was a gourmet meal.

 

[Khaos]

Obviously I disagree with you. Wonder Woman was a gourmet meal.

Not a fan of bland food, but i know a lot of people who like it.

Cheers.

 

[Willi Berg]

What is this MasterChef?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What is this MasterChef?

I know, right? People get so caught up with their metaphors around here.

 

[SSAV]

I saw the movie a month back and have been trying to catch up on what everyone else thought of the film before providing a review.

For me at least, it was one of the best films I have ever seen (despite the flaws); and definitely one of the most enjoyable ones.

The best part was Gal Gadot because I think she just shines in the role. Or, fits the role perfectly I should say.

(It could be because I am typically biased towards female characters in a movie, so I am not knocking Chris Pine here).

A few notes:

Spoiler

1. Steve Pine's characterisation was great! I really liked that he is a decent guy and not a jerk whose opinion of women changes as he gets to know Diana better; he is a guy with whom you could have a genuine friendship.
2. The rest of the merry band. Thinking back on them, I think they served to teach Diana about the complextities of the world; and they also set the world for us. Oh, and one of them gave me one of the best lines in the movie: "Who will sing for us Charlie?" Paraphrased I think. The line is a cliche, but the way Diana delivered it was heartwarming.
3. No sexualisation of either custom or the actor. The camera was respectful. I actually thought BvS had some of that with Superman (in fact all of them).
4. The theme and arc of the movie: Starting with naive belief in humanity, to losing faith when faced with their darkness, to believe in it again and hoping that goodness will prevail and hence, to use own powers for help and service. An arc that every person would have go to go through (with or without superpowers).

Also, my straight friends, who typically favor hot guys rather than women thought Gal was a goddess. t: I mean, they do love strong women, but this was on a whole other level.

Some things that I wanted more from:

Spoiler

1. Themyscira: I thought it lacked depth; only Hippolyta/Antiope/Diana scenes were focused on. I have no idea, for example, what Diana's relationship with the rest of the Amazons is like. In some ways she seemed distant from the Amazons. Looking back, it makes sense that she was pretty isolated and lacked friends because she was the only child there. There would have been a world of difference between her experiences and those of the Amazons. Still I hope she does go back there and then gains some friends.
2. Very limited female friendships or interactions for Diana. This gets aggravated because of what is there in Themyscira (or what is lacking there) but yeah, she has barely any meaningful interaction with women. Her only friends in her life seems to be Steve and his fellows. Which is sad for me.

On the first: I was wondering if the loneliness that Diana faced could have fueled her enthusiasm for fighting and becoming a warrior; she may have thought learning the arts and becoming like Antiope would make her part of the group. She would have considered it part of her inheritance of course, (and battles are heroism are exciting especially for someone brought up on Greek myths,) but also part of what was required to fulfill her role as a full-fledged Amazon.

So, I guess, it may have been intentional on Patty's part; and how Gal delivered it, seemed like that too.

Another favorite line: Hippolyta's final line to Diana: "You have been my greatest love! ... And, today you are my greatest sorrow." The way Diana's face lights up and then falls.

I hope the Greek Gods are not gone forever!

Oh! Score: 9 (Mainly because of the emotions; )

 

[-Arya-]

Entertaining to a certain degree, but not what i would call a great film. The novelty factor, the feel good elements and the lack of thematic controversy make it a typical crowd pleaser. But when you break it down to its core, it's really mediocre on almost every level. There's nothing special about the story or the plot. The acting is OK but not memorable. The villain is as weak as you can get. The fighting scenes are nothing we haven't seen before a zillion times. The visuals and cinematography are just more of that same lazy computer generated garbage that half of the time looks like a video game. Some scenes of her walking in slow mo are just cringeworthy. Oh, and talking about slow-mo...you really gotta know how to use it.

6/10. It doesn't give me enough to deserve more.

The story and plot are secondary. The other elements are so well done that most people overlook it. Much like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Do people rave about the story in that movie? No, but because it handled the characters and setting so well, nobody cared. Same situation here.

But I know we've disagreed about this in another thread. I don't want to start a debate.