vegata( when he first came to earth) vs superman

[buutenks]

Ontopic:Vegeta wins.

 

[Jplaya2023]

I still dont get it why people argue whose better because of some stupid feats they can do. Were no arguing who can do this or that, the argument is in a fight who wins. In a fight vegeta wins, in a feats contest than superman wins because vegeta has never had to do anything like that.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

I still dont get it why people argue whose better because of some stupid feats they can do. Were no arguing who can do this or that, the argument is in a fight who wins. In a fight vegeta wins, in a feats contest than superman wins because vegeta has never had to do anything like that.

yup

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

I think that she's had enough lol

 

[MSGohan]

The feats in DBZ sucks. At least after the Frieza saga. Since they were "increasing" up till the end of Frieza saga, but after that, they didn't increase, they were rather weaker sometimes. Probably because AT wanted to end DBZ at the end of Frieza saga.

 

[Sloth7d]

She'll be back. I think its kinda late over where she lives.

 

[Sloth7d]

The feats in DBZ sucks. At least after the Frieza saga. Since they were "increasing" up till the end of Frieza saga, but after that, they didn't increase, they were rather weaker sometimes. Probably because AT wanted to end DBZ at the end of Frieza saga.

I always thought it was wierd that Yamcha moved faster than the eyes can see in the saiyan saga, yet SSj3 Goku looked like he could barely move at all.But I blame the animators. In the manga everything looks fine.
I think the animators just animated it wrong.

 

[MSGohan]

I think that she's had enough lol

Don't worry she will be back with red glowing eyes.

 

[Jplaya2023]

She'll be back. I think its kinda late over where she lives.

Doesnt she live in Cali??

 

[buutenks]

The feats in DBZ sucks. At least after the Frieza saga. Since they were "increasing" up till the end of Frieza saga, but after that, they didn't increase, they were rather weaker sometimes. Probably because AT wanted to end DBZ at the end of Frieza saga.

Wel yeah,the only good feats that the dbz characters have through the whole dbz manga is ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta destroying the rock formations around them ripping the whole ground apart and mountains falling apart just by the shockwaves of their punches and ssj2 Gohan killing a Cell Jr. with one punch.

And ssj3 Gotenks ripping a whole through a dimension.

Note:In the anime ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were destroying mountains with the sockwave of their punches.

 

[Sloth7d]

I thought she lived in france or something

 

[MSGohan]

I always thought it was wierd that Yamcha moved faster than the eyes can see in the saiyan saga, yet SSj3 Goku looked like he could barely move at all.But I blame the animators. In the manga everything looks fine.
I think the animators just animated it wrong.

Yea true. And there are tons of examples like these.
Actually already in DB they could move faster than the eye could see.

 

[MSGohan]

Wel yeah,the only good feats that the dbz characters have through the whole dbz manga is ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta destroying the rock formations around them ripping the whole ground apart and mountains falling apart just by the shockwaves of their punches and ssj2 Gohan killing a Cell Jr. with one punch.

And ssj3 Gotenks ripping a whole through a dimension.

Note:In the anime ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were destroying mountains with the sockwave of their punches.

Actually rocks were getting rips apart when Goku and Vegeta first fought each other on earth.
You also get the feeling of how strong the characters are in the anime.

 

[buutenks]

I always thought it was wierd that Yamcha moved faster than the eyes can see in the saiyan saga, yet SSj3 Goku looked like he could barely move at all.But I blame the animators. In the manga everything looks fine.
I think the animators just animated it wrong.

Actually Yamch could move faster then the eye could see back in db and ssj3 Goku not moving that fast is because he wasn't actually moving,he was just fighting but not a t super speed.

Edit:Many dbz characters have shown that they move so fast that their invisible completely and that not even the z-fighters could see them,now that's speed.

Raditz could move that fast,Nappa,Piccolo,Goku,kid Goku,fpssj Goku,ssj Goku,Piccolo,Freeza etc.

 

[buutenks]

Actually rocks were getting rips apart when Goku and Vegeta first fought each other on earth.
You also get the feeling of how strong the characters are in the anime.

No,no rocks were falling apart in the manga,Goku only punched Vegeta into a bit rocky hill and Oozura Gohan destroyed a big stone pillar with one punch and this Oozura Gohan was weaker then Nappa.

Edit:And there is more.

 

[buutenks]

Yea true. And there are tons of examples like these.
Actually already in DB they could move faster than the eye could see.

Yeah I know,Master Roshi could even move so fast that he and Krillin did alot of stuff in one second.

 

[MSGohan]

No,no rocks were falling apart in the manga,Goku only punched Vegeta into a bit rocky hill and Oozura Gohan destroyed a big stone pillar with one punch and this Oozura Gohan was weaker then Nappa.

Edit:And there is more.


Yeah I know,Master Roshi could even move so fast that he and Krillin did alot of stuff in one second.

I can't believe we're discussing wether or not they can destroy mountains.. lol!
Even Kame-senin him self could destroy the moon. Saying that the characters can't survive mountain/planet shattering attacks is just pointing out that the person doesn't know much about DB.
I'll make another example, before Gluon says that they can only withstand moon shattering attack but not planet shattering or something funny like that. Kaio-sama stated that the Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb) can easely destroy the earth, so Goku had to be careful. Yet Vegeta survived that attack. I would post the scans from the manga, but I can't seem to get acces to the site right know.

And underestimating the characters by saying, that they only are good at using energy attacks is ridiculous. Because their strengh/powerlevel IS their KI/energy. If they want planet shattering punches they can just channel their energy to their hands. Remember Goku channeled energy into one finger and fought against Trunks while he was using the sword against Goku. Goku was defending against the sword with that finger.

 

[buutenks]

I can't believe we're discussing wether or not they can destroy mountains.. lol!
Even Kame-senin him self could destroy the moon. Saying that the characters can't survive mountain/planet shattering attacks is just pointing out that the person doesn't know much about DB.
I'll make another example, before Gluon says that they can only withstand moon shattering attack but not planet shattering or something funny like that. Kaio-sama stated that the Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb) can easely destroy the earth, so Goku had to be careful. Yet Vegeta survived that attack. I would post the scans from the manga, but I can't seem to get acces to the site right know.

And underestimating the characters by saying, that they only are good at using energy attacks is ridiculous. Because their strengh/powerlevel IS their KI/energy. If they want planet shattering punches they can just channel their energy to their hands. Remember Goku channeled energy into one finger and fought against Trunks while he was using the sword against Goku. Goku was defending against the sword with that finger.

Hey I didn't said that they can't survive mountain busting attacks,they could survive easily island busting blasts,Freeza couldn't even hurt ssj Goku with his attacks at 70% of his power and they can destroy mountains with their punches.
A ssj2 can destroy mountain ranges with the shockwave of his punches and he could easily kill a fpssj with one punch and other beings thta aren't stronger then the Cell Jr.

 

[warpdrive]

It would be a pretty good match but Goku would be a better candidate, it just has to be a neutral palce with no kryptonite of course. Superman would have to take martial art lessons from batman.

 

[buutenks]

I can't believe we're discussing wether or not they can destroy mountains.. lol!
Even Kame-senin him self could destroy the moon. Saying that the characters can't survive mountain/planet shattering attacks is just pointing out that the person doesn't know much about DB.
I'll make another example, before Gluon says that they can only withstand moon shattering attack but not planet shattering or something funny like that. Kaio-sama stated that the Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb) can easely destroy the earth, so Goku had to be careful. Yet Vegeta survived that attack. I would post the scans from the manga, but I can't seem to get acces to the site right know.

And underestimating the characters by saying, that they only are good at using energy attacks is ridiculous. Because their strengh/powerlevel IS their KI/energy. If they want planet shattering punches they can just channel their energy to their hands. Remember Goku channeled energy into one finger and fought against Trunks while he was using the sword against Goku. Goku was defending against the sword with that finger.

I have the manga in my computer,I'll search for it.

 

[MSGohan]

Hey I didn't said that they can't survive mountain busting attacks,they could survive easily island busting blasts,Freeza couldn't even hurt ssj Goku with his attacks at 70% of his power and they can destroy mountains with their punches.
A ssj2 can destroy mountain ranges with the shockwave of his punches and he could easily kill a fpssj with one punch and other beings thta aren't stronger then the Cell Jr.

I wasn't refering this to you. It's because we were discussing this with Gluon. Thats what I meant. And I gave you proof that even when Vegeta came to earth he could survive planet destroying attacks. There is no need to go up to a SSJ or SSJ2.
Here Kaio-sama says that the Genki Dama can destroy earth. And Vegeta survived that attack.

EDIT: And Here is Goku channeling energy to one finger, and defending against the sword with that finger.

 

[buutenks]

I wasn't refering this to you. It's because we were discussing this with Gluon. Thats what I meant. And I gave you proof that even when Vegeta came to earth he could survive planet destroying attacks. There is no need to go up to a SSJ or SSJ2.
Here Kaio-sama says that the Genki Dama can destroy earth. And Vegeta survived that attack.

EDIT: And Here is Goku channeling energy to one finger, and defending against the sword with that finger.

I just found that too,I guess you beat me to it.
It's at volume 18 chapter 8.

Edit:And I got more examples of that,Imperfect Cell took an attack that could easily destroy Freeza(who can survive the explosion of a planet) without having a cut,that proves that he can take planet destroying blasts.

Perfect Cell took attacks from Ussj Vegeta that would destroy freeza but he didn't even had a cut.

And there is more.

 

[Vic Von Doom]

Sorry to interfer again, but I just couldn't ignore your statements, I tried to resist, but I couldn't stop my self. And please spare me from "Last desperate attempt, eh?"-stuff, we're here to discus not to fight.

Ok, I only have your word on that, but that's ok.

Something you ASSUME, yet when we assume something in DBZ, it's always incorrect because it's never shown in the manga.


Well, here I have to apologize to you, since I thought you were talking about Vegeta. But Gohan should be able to handle at least 10g, after his training for the fight against Vegeta and Nappa, since he became stronger than Raditz, who was a saiyan. And Kaio-sama him self says, that Planet Vegeta has a gravity that is 10 times stronger than earths, and Raditz was a saiyan, so he must be used to 10g with a powerlevel of about 1.000, but Gohan on Namek (if not on earth), was stronger than that. Besides Namek can't have much higher gravity than earth, since Bulma was there with them, it would have been overkill for her, at even 2g.

This wasn't to poke on your comment, I only noticed this, since you were talking about the gravity stuff on Namek or Kaio-sama's planet. I thought you were trying to say that Namek wasn't that much bigger than earth and therefore gravity most be equal. But I see that I was wrong. Forget about this.

Again, you assume he should have been on a planet with much higher gravity than earth, since his been in space for so long time. But this isn't in the comics, then you shouldn't state this. Because when DB-fans states something similar you don't regcognize it and need proof. So this won't be recognized either. Sorry.

1. Highspeed combat, maybe. But this isn't saying anyting about the gravity.
2. Ok here you say "not-high-speed-combat". But this was about higher gravity than earth.


You just proved that you don't have much knowledge about the details in DBZ.
It's true when Goku arrived he was far stronger than Vegeta. But when vegeta got that senzu bean, he became a little more powerful, since he after that could beat one the last member of the Ginyu force (not Ginyu him self). He also made Krilin put him to near death situation, and make Dende heal him. After all of this his power would definetly be above 1.000.000. Because Frieza's 2nd form as stated in the manga had a powerlevel above 1 mil. And Vegeta could stand against Frieza's 4th form, wich Piccolo couldn't. So he was stronger than Piccolo. And since Piccolo was almost even with Frieza's 2nd form, Vegeta's powerlevel is logically higher than 1 mil, after being healed by Dende.

You, my friend, are the biggest nerd on the planet. I feel like reading your post has caused me to gain 200 lbs, break out in zits, and lose all libido for real women...curiously, my sexual desire for Xena, Warrior Princess and Lara Croft, Tomb Raider has skyrocketed.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I simply couldn't resist any longer. I said I wasn't going to argue with people who weren't even going to think, but I simply couldn't resist myself.

Anyways, here we go.

Sorry to interfer again, but I just couldn't ignore your statements, I tried to resist, but I couldn't stop my self. And please spare me from "Last desperate attempt, eh?"-stuff, we're here to discus not to fight.

Could've fooled me with all of the little picky technicality stuff. But I'll go with you on that. And I WOULD spare you, but you give me no choice.

Ok, I only have your word on that, but that's ok.

Something you ASSUME, yet when we assume something in DBZ, it's always incorrect because it's never shown in the manga.

See, in the comics, over the vast decades Superman has continually made these feats and worded observations, one would assume even by chance that you people have read at least ONE of these. Several times has he visited planets and stated they were bigger and heavier with gravity, several times. Several several times. In fact, especially in the late eighties after he got the huge depowering, he'd constantly have strength problems that you could compare him to, and later on, in the 2000's, you'd have things he simply could and couldn't do with comparable weights. Large islands ranging in the millions of tons are things he could move, but moon's ranging in the billions of ton's he would require help.

He could move inside the pull of a black hole, who's gravity was enough to super compact pretty much any object next to it, but he could fly around it, and actually accelerate in it's high gravity field.

Well, here I have to apologize to you, since I thought you were talking about Vegeta. But Gohan should be able to handle at least 10g, after his training for the fight against Vegeta and Nappa, since he became stronger than Raditz, who was a saiyan. And Kaio-sama him self says, that Planet Vegeta has a gravity that is 10 times stronger than earths, and Raditz was a saiyan, so he must be used to 10g with a powerlevel of about 1.000, but Gohan on Namek (if not on earth), was stronger than that. Besides Namek can't have much higher gravity than earth, since Bulma was there with them, it would have been overkill for her, at even 2g.

It's cool. Minor mistakes happen all the time. Though I agree that Gohan should be capable of 10 G training at that time. He was basically (under heavy duress) on Goku's level, or just under it at that point. As for Namek, it's gravity really couldn't be that much higher for the point you made, which does somewhat invalidate my point of Namek's gravity, and Gohan's point on it. Though it does reinforce the little to no ability gain, since all of their "training" was along the way in incidents rather than structured training. And their only increases were the unlocking of their potentials. Though comparing Gohan to Raditz at that time wasn't really something useful, since all the little plant guys were at Raditz' level, and nobody seemed to really have a problem with them in a one on one fight. Sure, Yamcha died, but it wasn't due to the overwhelming power of one of the plant men. Whatever their names really were.

This wasn't to poke on your comment, I only noticed this, since you were talking about the gravity stuff on Namek or Kaio-sama's planet. I thought you were trying to say that Namek wasn't that much bigger than earth and therefore gravity most be equal. But I see that I was wrong. Forget about this.

It's cool. I'll just ask that you don't look for problems in my writing, and try to see it for what it is. A share of information. Because I REALLY hate it when people will get to the point where they'll argue with me over why a wheel works better than a square for movement simply because they won't see things for what they are. And really, you DO have potential.

Again, you assume he should have been on a planet with much higher gravity than earth, since his been in space for so long time. But this isn't in the comics, then you shouldn't state this. Because when DB-fans states something similar you don't regcognize it and need proof. So this won't be recognized either. Sorry.

Actually, it IS in the comics. It's there, you just have to read it. Unfortunately, I don't have the screen shots of the teeming hundreds, possibly thousands of Superman comics there are, so I'll definitely allow doubt to filter in there. However, DB-fans state something that there is no comparison or thought pattern for. "Vegeta is on Superman's level." How? That's what I'm asking. A rationalization. And the reason I ask for examples, is because the Anime forum is ripe with irrational people who make irrational statements. Which, truly, we're all guilty for, but still.

1. Highspeed combat, maybe. But this isn't saying anyting about the gravity.
2. Ok here you say "not-high-speed-combat". But this was about higher gravity than earth.

Technically, Superman's abilities shouldn't be hindered all that much in several degrees higher than Earth's gravity given his ability. In fact, he should be moving in slow motion on Earth, and super speed in higher gravities on a natural basis. Just think of people's movement on the moon for that one.

You just proved that you don't have much knowledge about the details in DBZ.
It's true when Goku arrived he was far stronger than Vegeta. But when vegeta got that senzu bean, he became a little more powerful, since he after that could beat one the last member of the Ginyu force (not Ginyu him self). He also made Krilin put him to near death situation, and make Dende heal him. After all of this his power would definetly be above 1.000.000. Because Frieza's 2nd form as stated in the manga had a powerlevel above 1 mil. And Vegeta could stand against Frieza's 4th form, wich Piccolo couldn't. So he was stronger than Piccolo. And since Piccolo was almost even with Frieza's 2nd form, Vegeta's powerlevel is logically higher than 1 mil, after being healed by Dende.

Actually, the one mil could easily be punched as a mistake. Though this is more or less a technicality of knowledge since it really has no bearing on the arguement itself.

You claim my knowledge is bad, yet you say that things I say is true in the end. So you can't have it both ways. I'm definitely giving you guys the generous belief that you have some moderate knowledge in comics, because I can EASILY say you lack any form of serious comic knowledge just as quickly. But I'm definitely offering the benefit of the doubt here. I'm not saying my knowledge on DB is perfect to any pretense (notice I said "Correct me if I'm wrong.") Note I don't sit there and go BACK against what you guys say about DBZ.

Though continue the rant if you please. Next post.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You keep using the example that it is much easier to destroy an object from within. It's not like they fight inside mountains. They're leveling the mountaining with they shockwaves, from outside.

That I will definitely give you. I keep using the example since most of the examples I use it against are when people destroy mountains or islands directly, where the energy goes in, and the explosion is the result. The mountains shaking apart (Note: not utterly exploding into a million pieces) is separate.

Only? He destroyed planet Vegeta in his base form.

Through a large charge up of energy. THIS has been explained more than once.

1. Here is Nappa, leveling a whole city with his fingers.
2. Here is Goku, taking a more powerful attack, since his so pissed off and so powered up.

I've said it before, and apparently, I'm going to have to say it again.

The energy manipulation ability is their OBVIOUS means to powering up and defending themselves. You even said this later on considering the sword blocking thing. So I don't see where this is coming from.