Venom now has a stand alone film, according to the studio.

Hush boy; adults are speaking. Go play in your sandbox.

There's no need to completely REINVENT the character just so you can have your black suit fanboyism satiated. He's not worthy of a solo film; his solo comic was a disaster, and the angle you're going with for the reinvention is another bland, anti-hero angle. Yawn. Wow, how original. An anti-hero. In a black costume. Wow.
"Kid"?... Why don't you get back on the banana boat?

Anyhow, why do you have a problem with "REINVENT"ing a character like Venom? You're so damn obnoxious, and caught up in your own hate for the character that you can't except the fact that if they do something along these lines, it could only make the character itself, far better. Conan's cliche, and look what he's got: a video-game, a comic-book series, an upcoming movie. Venom's NOT cliche, and look at what they could do to him. Anything's possible with a character like Venom, but it's people like you who will never open their eyes to see that.
 
Venom is way too 1-dimensional of a character to ever pull of a quality film.

Agreed.

There's just nothing there with the comic book character to warrant a solo movie. The anti hero stuff they did with him was shallow, cliche, and just downright awful. They only did it because the stalk and fight Spidey routine got stale, so they tried something else with the character. Venom's whole basis is being an enemy to Spider-Man. Without Spidey, he doesn't work.

People are saying reinvent him. For what? What's the point in doing his character if you're going to change him? Do you want VINO? They reinvented Catwoman, and look how that turned out.

If they want an anti hero movie, then do the Punisher. At least he has some substance.
 
Agreed.

There's just nothing there with the comic book character to warrant a solo movie. The anti hero stuff they did with him was shallow, cliche, and just downright awful.

Exactly why Venom needs another chance to be done right on film.

A solo movie could do that.

They only did it because the the stalk and fight Spidey routine got stale,

How can it get stale when they never did much with it in film?

so they tried something else with the character.

Which failed.

Venom's whole basis is being an enemy to Spider-Man.

Agreed.

Without Spidey, he doesn't work.

They can still have him obsessing about Spider-man.

People are saying reinvent him. For what? What's the point in doing his character if you're going to change him?

We want him to be more like the comic version.

Change isn't really the right word for it. It's more about exploring the other sides of his personality they didn't show in Spider-man 3.

Do you want VINO?

We want an improvement.

They reinvented Catwoman,

That wasn't a reinvention it was a new character altogether.

and look how that turned out.

Because the people who made it were never suited to the franchise.

If Venom has a talented staff whose skills fit the franchise it could be good.

If they want an anti hero movie, then do the Punisher.

They want to expand the Spider-man film franchise. Venom has potential to do that.

At least he has some substance.

There is substance in Venom.
 
Exactly why Venom needs another chance to be done right on film.

A solo movie would do that.

No, it wouldn't. Venom doesn't work solo. Not on the comic book page, and certainly not in a 2 hour movie by himself.

How can it get stale when they never did much with it in film?

What are you talking about? I was stating the reason why they used the lame anti-hero routine in the comics. They hit rock bottom with the Venom character being a stalker of Spidey with a chip on his shoulder, so they tried something different.

It failed.

Which failed.

Exactly! And some of you here are asking for it on screen.

They can still have him obsessing about Spider-man.

What purpose would that serve if Spider-Man's not even in it? It'd just remind us all why Venom came to be, and that crucial element is absent from the movie.

We want him to be more like the comic version.

Then wait for a Spider-Man franchise reboot. Or watch the new cartoon show.

Change isn't really the right word for it. It's more about exploring the other sides of his personality they didn't show in Sider-man 3.

Like what? The anti hero stuff? You just agreed above that it failed.

We want an improvement.

You wont get it with a solo movie, because the character doesn't work without Spidey.

That wasn't a reinvention it was a new character altogether.

You could argue the same thing of The Penguin and Catwoman in Batman Returns. But it wasn't. It was labelled as a reinvention, and that's what it was.

It was just a crappy one.

Because the people who made it were never suited to the franchise.

And you're basing this on....?

If Venom has a talented staff whose skills fit the franchise it could be good.

Knowing what I know about the Venom character, that is extremely unlikely.

They want to expand the Spider-man film franchise. Venom has potential to do that.

Who says they want to expand the Spider-Man franchise?

There is substance in Venom.

No, there isn't. Certainly not enough to warrant a solo movie, that's for certain. Sam Raimi even found him lacking when he researched the character:

I had never read Venom in the comic books, since they came after my time. Because of that, I didn't have a natural inclination toward him. And when I read those comics, at [producer] Avi Arad's urging, I didn't understand where Venom's humanity was. I know that kids think he looks cool, and they think he's a good villain for Spider-Man. I actually didn't. What was it about Peter's own makeup that this villain represented some weaker or darker side to? Just looking like a dark version of him is not enough for me. The more I read [Venom stories], the less interested I became.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20035285_20035331_20037557,00.html
 
I wrote a little piece with Shocker as the villain, and I was surprised at how similar Brock and Schultz were. Shocker's origin might have to be revised a bit, but if you can draw a parallel between Venom and Shocker, the result could be some great dialogue. Doc Ock's origin was changed, and it worked. The same could be done with Shocker. Instead of the usual 'accident transforms guy into insane menace', Schultz is a genius, rookie scientist working for an Oscorp rival. As a weapons developer, he is successful, but on his way somewhere he sees someone being beaten by thugs. In the midst of Spider-Man 2, there's no Spidey to help him out. Sneaking behind the thugs, he kicks one of them in the knees, grabs his gun and shoots them down. When the victim gets up, he violently attacks Schultz, but is shot after a long scuffle. He suffers trauma to the head, but decides against going to the hospital due to fear of being sent to prison. Schultz is also shooken up by the reaction of the man he apparently 'saved'.

He tries to continue on with life, but always has his mind on something else when he should be focusing on work and life. Neglecting his family and sheltering himself from even more pain, he hides his personality from others. Now very protective of himself, he loses his job, but on his way out takes his work, kills everyone he encounters, and destroys the plans. Traumatized by his actions, he can't focus on anything else, and has no idea what to do with his life. His world begins to fall apart thereafter.

With seemingly no other option left, he breaks down and decides to take his own life. He tries to kill himself on a bridge with a gun, but when stopped by someone else, shoots him instead. Fearing for his life, he runs. Venom (don't ask me how he reappears. I'm only suggesting the villain's origin) appears and basically rips his body to shreds. Schultz throws the gun over the bridge and the paramedics arrive.

He spends several months in the hospital, but his bouts of PTSD worsen and he doesn't feel safe in the hospital at all. The man sneaks out of the hospital and is stricken with rage. With more of a desire to start over than try to take his life again, he begins to build a new career as a criminal.


Anyway, just an idea of mine. It'll never happen, but I feel it would work on screen. No more "I WANT CARNAGE ON SCREEN" suggestions. Shocker, I think, would work.
 
I wrote a little piece with Shocker as the villain, and I was surprised at how similar Brock and Schultz were. Shocker's origin might have to be revised a bit, but if you can draw a parallel between Venom and Shocker, the result could be some great dialogue. Doc Ock's origin was changed, and it worked. The same could be done with Shocker. Instead of the usual 'accident transforms guy into insane menace', Schultz is a genius, rookie scientist working for an Oscorp rival. As a weapons developer, he is successful, but on his way somewhere he sees someone being beaten by thugs. In the midst of Spider-Man 2, there's no Spidey to help him out. Sneaking behind the thugs, he kicks one of them in the knees, grabs his gun and shoots them down. When the victim gets up, he violently attacks Schultz, but is shot after a long scuffle. He suffers trauma to the head, but decides against going to the hospital due to fear of being sent to prison. Schultz is also shooken up by the reaction of the man he apparently 'saved'.

He tries to continue on with life, but always has his mind on something else when he should be focusing on work and life. Neglecting his family and sheltering himself from even more pain, he hides his personality from others. Now very protective of himself, he loses his job, but on his way out takes his work, kills everyone he encounters, and destroys the plans. Traumatized by his actions, he can't focus on anything else, and has no idea what to do with his life. His world begins to fall apart thereafter.

With seemingly no other option left, he breaks down and decides to take his own life. He tries to kill himself on a bridge with a gun, but when stopped by someone else, shoots him instead. Fearing for his life, he runs. Venom (don't ask me how he reappears. I'm only suggesting the villain's origin) appears and basically rips his body to shreds. Schultz throws the gun over the bridge and the paramedics arrive.

He spends several months in the hospital, but his bouts of PTSD worsen and he doesn't feel safe in the hospital at all. The man sneaks out of the hospital and is stricken with rage. With more of a desire to start over than try to take his life again, he begins to build a new career as a criminal.


Anyway, just an idea of mine. It'll never happen, but I feel it would work on screen. No more "I WANT CARNAGE ON SCREEN" suggestions. Shocker, I think, would work.
I thought of something simular(mainly with Shocker as the villain):
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=299159
 
No, it wouldn't. Venom doesn't work solo. Not on the comic book page,

Any character has potential. All it takes is talented people with a good idea. Marvel has not done this in the comics yet.

Deadpool was a nobody in comics for years until Joe Kelly made him work. No reason this can’t happen with Venom.

and certainly not in a 2 hour movie by himself.

That’s debatable.

What are you talking about? I was stating the reason why they used the lame anti-hero routine in the comics. They hit rock bottom with the Venom character being a stalker of Spidey with a chip on his shoulder, so they tried something different.

It failed.

It didn’t just fail because Venom was anti-hero. He was over-exposed. That’s hurt popular characters no matter who they are.

Exactly! And some of you here are asking for it on screen.

I meant Riami’s new direction.

It might have worked if it had more time in Spider-man 3 but we’ll never know now.

What purpose would that serve if Spider-Man's not even in it? It'd just remind us all why Venom came to be, and that crucial element is absent from the movie.

I've already addressed this in a prior post:

There may be a solution. Instead of having him want to kill Spider-man get him to want to do a better job at crime fighting then him. he could be constantly avoiding Spider-man during the movie, too. Spider-man should only have a small cameo at most but mostly stay in long distance shots swinging around the city, rescuing people, fighting criminals, the public talk about him, he's always in the news but he should never directly interact with Venom. Spider-man must have a presence in the movie which he can't truly escape.


Then wait for a Spider-Man franchise reboot.

Why wait when Sony wants to do a Venom movie now?

Or watch the new cartoon show.

What’s Venom like on that show?

Like what? The anti hero stuff? You just agreed above that it failed.

No, I didn’t.

You wont get it with a solo movie, because the character doesn't work without Spidey.

Already responded to this.

You could argue the same thing of The Penguin and Catwoman in Batman Returns. But it wasn't.

No, those were reinventions.

It was labelled as a reinvention, and that's what it was.

The film makers can call it whatever they want. It's not a reinvention.

It was just a crappy one.

That's an understatement. :D

And you're basing this on....?

The Catwoman movie.

Knowing what I know about the Venom character, that is extremely unlikely.

What do you know about Venom? What don’t you find interesting?

Who says they want to expand the Spider-Man franchise?

They want to make a Venom spin-off, don’t they?

That’s an expansion.

No, there isn't. Certainly not enough to warrant a solo movie, that's for certain.

Did you think the same with Blade when you heard he was getting a movie?

Sam Raimi even found him lacking when he researched the character:

Quote:
I had never read Venom in the comic books, since they came after my time. Because of that, I didn't have a natural inclination toward him. And when I read those comics, at [producer] Avi Arad's urging, I didn't understand where Venom's humanity was. I know that kids think he looks cool, and they think he's a good villain for Spider-Man. I actually didn't. What was it about Peter's own makeup that this villain represented some weaker or darker side to? Just looking like a dark version of him is not enough for me. The more I read [Venom stories], the less interested I became.


http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20035285_20035331_20037557,00.html

Everybody has different tastes with things. It’s obvious Venom just never could appeal to Riami’s sensibilities no matter what he read.

He isn’t the only director in Hollywood who could make Venom work in a movie. Hollywood is filled with creative people. Sony just needs to find one who has a good story to tell with the character.

Turtle-Man:

That's a great idea. Shocker would make a great villain for Venom to fight.
 
Any character has potential. All it takes is talented people with a good idea. Marvel has not done this in the comics yet.

No, every character does not have potential to have their own movie. Every character has a potential to be good, IMO. But that doesn't deem them solo movie material.

Some people here are of the notion that if a character had a solo series in the comics, that means they are meant for solo stardom on the big screen. That is BS.

Catwoman had her own series for years. But the kind of antics she gets up to on her own is fine for a 22 page comic. It's not movie material. Even my favorite villain, The Joker, had his own series:


200609_tacbmcyway3009.jpg



Again, that doesn't mean he should get his own movie.

That’s debatable.

I don't see any winning ideas from anyone so far. What do you want them to do with Venom for 2 hours?

It didn’t just fail because Venom was anti-hero. He was over-exposed. That’s hurt popular characters no matter who they are.

Wolverine is the most over exposed, ****ed out character I have ever seen in comic book land. Yet here is is getting a solo movie that looks to be really good.

Why? Wolverine has depth and substance. Wolverine has a story worth telling.

I've already addressed this in a prior post:

You want Venom to be on a quest to be a better crime fighter than Spider-Man?

Heavens to murgatroid, that might actually be worse than the anti-hero routine, if that's even possible. No offence meant, Major. But that sounds dreadful.

Why wait when Sony wants to do a Venom movie now?

Because quality is worth waiting for. I was impatient as hell waiting for 3 years for TDK after Begins. But man, it was sooooooooooo worth it.

Sony is just cashing in on a character's popularity here. That's all. That's what most spin offs are all about.

What’s Venom like on that show?

He's really good. It's actually the only version of the character I enjoyed. The show itself just oozes quality.

No, those were reinventions.

Come on. The Penguin was practically nothing like his comic book counterpart. Sewer mutant hating on society, with a circus gang, and wanting to murder the children of Gotham.

The Penguin of the comics is posh, dapper master criminal, who is like the aristocrat of crime. He steals faberge eggs, rare species of bird, uses trained killer birds etc.

But the character in Returns is labelled a reinvention. Like Berry's Catwoman.

The Catwoman movie.

Catwoman is not solo movie material. What would they have her do for 2 hours? She's a Batman villain. She's a thief, who has a sexual attraction to Batman, and who flip flops between sides whenever it suits her.

She's a great character, but she was never destined to carry a movie. Wouldn't matter who made the movie about her.

What do you know about Venom?

Everything. I've read all his comics. It's why I can make such an impassioned opinion on it.

What don’t you find interesting?

Characters with a story worth telling.

They want to make a Venom spin-off, don’t they?

That’s an expansion.

That's a cash in, and we both know it. Sony is only interested in making $$$, and they think they can get it by selling some half baked Venom product to his rabid fans who were left unsatisfied with SM-3.

They probably will make the bucks, too.

Did you think the same with Blade when you heard he was getting a movie?

Nope, because the success of Buffy proved that vampire slayers and their world make for good stories.

Everybody has different tastes with things. It’s obvious Venom just never could appeal to Riami’s sensibilities no matter what he read.

Because Sam only likes characters who have depth and emotion. It's not like he resented the character from the get-go. He went and did his homework, and saw what was there: a shallow character who sky rocketed to fame and popularity due to a cool look and similar Spidey powers.

He isn’t the only director in Hollywood who could make Venom work in a movie. Hollywood is filled with creative people. Sony just needs to find one who has a good story to tell with the character.

Well, they say miracles can happen :cwink:
 
I agree that Venom can't be played by Topher Grace but TG as Spidey would have been nice.
 
Anything can work on the big screen. Hollywood has produced all sorts of films. If Venom doesn't have enough depth, make some revisions to the character. If characters can be created from scratch (in many cases, screenwriters use original ideas), a pre-existing character can be altered to work. You just have to look beyond what already exists and provide something that works. My Shocker concept is an example of adapting the character to fit the big screen. As long as it's realistic, and stays somewhat true to the source material, you can use your imagination to add what's missing.
 
Anything can work on the big screen. Hollywood has produced all sorts of films. If Venom doesn't have enough depth, make some revisions to the character. If characters can be created from scratch (in many cases, films use original ideas), a pre-existing character can be altered to work. You just have to look beyond what already exists and provide something that works. My Shocker concept is an example of adapting the character to fit the big screen. As long as it's realistic, and stays somewhat true to the source material, you can use your imagination to add what's missing.
Sweet, I got someone promoting my 'Venom' script. Now all I have to do is shamelessly promote it myself:
'VENOM' MOVIE SCRIPT BY 'thej:cwink:n93'! READ IT NOW, OR YOU FAIL!
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=299159
 
Anything can work on the big screen. Hollywood has produced all sorts of films.
Anything can work but doesn't mean it will work well.
Hollywood produces a lot of different movies but don't mean they're all good.

Venom can work but it's hard to see him exist as a standalone without Spiderman in the picture. I think that if SM3 had set him up better then it may have carried through to a standalone movie better as well. Venom could go either way but I think it'll fall by the wayside only partly due to the sour aftertaste of SM3.
 
... someone promoting your Venom script? Maybe. I was talking about my little excerpt up there, but your idea is a pretty good one too. I am fond of the idea of using Shocker in a Venom film, though. :cwink:
 
Anything can work but doesn't mean it will work well.
Hollywood produces a lot of different movies but don't mean they're all good.

Venom can work but it's hard to see him exist as a standalone without Spiderman in the picture. I think that if SM3 had set him up better then it may have carried through to a standalone movie better as well. Venom could go either way but I think it'll fall by the wayside only partly due to the sour aftertaste of SM3.

Think Batman. Before the Burton Batman, every regular person out there knew him as Adam West. The film completely changed everyone's perception of Batman. If the film receives plenty of hype, promotion and attention, it'll surely be noticed. If it can live up to the hype, that'll revive the Venom character's potential altogether.
 
this couldn't work as a spinoff . it would be like a reboot.
 
Were you too caught up with Gambit and Ryan Reynolds to catch the fact that the diologue was horrible and the acting(apart from Hugh and Liev) was horrible as well? Trailers are met to make a movie look good, for me... this 'Wolverine' trailer didn't do anything to make me believe this will be a good movie. We all felt Jennifer Garner was great as Elektra, but that didn't make her spin-off movie great, now did it? So do me a favour, don't raise your hopes for 'Wolverine', because then you'll claim that you knew it all along and so will all of it's "former" fans by the time of the film's release.


I was definitely less excited to see Ryan Reynolds than anything else. It is a minute and 45 seconds how can you judge the acting. There is only like 35 seconds of actual dialogue in the trailer and it is all Danny Huston and Liev and Hugh. I think Will.I.Am. has one line but he isn't even a major part of the film. Jennifer Garner? She was awful as Elektra. I will give her credit for her athletic ability but she is awful at delivering lines.

Oh, I looked at your original post about the Wolverine movie being a disaster. It is almost word for word what that Fox guy said.
 
There's a big difference between being burned & being COMPLETELY INCINERATED.

You must not like venom at all huh? Is it really happening... IDK, but it could work done right. Hopefully it wouldn't be another Steel movie.

I hate how spider-man kills off every villain. It's kinda pathetic.
 
I was definitely less excited to see Ryan Reynolds than anything else. It is a minute and 45 seconds how can you judge the acting. There is only like 35 seconds of actual dialogue in the trailer and it is all Danny Huston and Liev and Hugh. I think Will.I.Am. has one line but he isn't even a major part of the film. Jennifer Garner? She was awful as Elektra. I will give her credit for her athletic ability but she is awful at delivering lines.

Oh, I looked at your original post about the Wolverine movie being a disaster. It is almost word for word what that Fox guy said.
Hey, hey, hey!... First off, you never talk to a respected individual like that, that's just not cool. Second, you've got "Wolverine Fan-Boy" sprayed all over you, so it's pretty much impossible for me to believe anything, let along everything, you say. Period.
 
Hey, hey, hey!... First off, you never talk to a respected individual like that, that's just not cool. Second, you've got "Wolverine Fan-Boy" sprayed all over you, so it's pretty much impossible for me to believe anything, let along everything, you say. Period.


That or am I proving you have no legitimate examples about the trailer. Respected individual? What is this the mob or are we on a forum? Don't tell me what to do. So what I like Wolverine, you are obviously a Venom fan and you are just mad because of the butchering he received in Spidey 3.

All I hear is "the movie will suck...your wrong...the movie will suck...". I'm sick of that, just explain it.

What is this a chain of command? Please.
 
That or am I proving you have no legitimate examples about the trailer. Respected individual? What is this the mob or are we on a forum? Don't tell me what to do. So what I like Wolverine, you are obviously a Venom fan and you are just mad because of the butchering he received in Spidey 3.

All I hear is "the movie will suck...your wrong...the movie will suck...". I'm sick of that, just explain it.

What is this a chain of command? Please.
I exampled what was horrible about the trailer. I am a respected individual, and anyone who doesn't realize this... let's just say I have connections. Actually... funny story, I %$&#in' hate Venom, I'm dead serious. When I heard he was in 'Spider-Man 3', my eyes rolled into the back of my skull. I want to see a 'Venom' movie, because I believe that they can make this character interesting.

And, everything I say is true. This movie will suck, I am right and this movie will suck. I don't have to explain myself because I don't need to. I'm making a statement, 'Wolverine' will suck, period.

It's my goddamn chain of command, so don't question me again.
 
I exampled what was horrible about the trailer. I am a respected individual, and anyone who doesn't realize this... let's just say I have connections. Actually... funny story, I %$&#in' hate Venom, I'm dead serious. When I heard he was in 'Spider-Man 3', my eyes rolled into the back of my skull. I want to see a 'Venom' movie, because I believe that they can make this character interesting.

And, everything I say is true. This movie will suck, I am right and this movie will suck. I don't have to explain myself because I don't need to. I'm making a statement, 'Wolverine' will suck, period.

It's my goddamn chain of command, so don't question me again.

Do I have to respond to a statement like this? What connection? Bigger than everyone else's? Do you know Avi or Ari Arad? Have you talked to Gavin Hood? Benioff? Any of Fox producers...or did a friend of a friend of a friend tell you something over World of Warcraft and you know he is right.

I heard the podcast I know what one guy told those two guys. I know that two people from Joblo talked to a few Fox guys at comic con and they said that Wolverine is really well done.

If you hate Venom, then why did you write a Venom script?

Try not to be an a**hole! Maybe respect other peoples opinions and express yours with more depth than "don't question me again". It's an open forum. No one is any different than the other but atleast I ask questions why rather than see your 2000 + posts and just say, "Wow, he is a bigger nerd than me! I better defer to him." 2000+ posts. THere's guys with 10000 and 20000 and more. They don't act like a**holes so why do you?

But I guess Uber-omniscent-nerdman must be right.
 
Do I have to respond to a statement like this? What connection? Bigger than everyone else's? Do you know Avi or Ari Arad? Have you talked to Gavin Hood? Benioff? Any of Fox producers...or did a friend of a friend of a friend tell you something over World of Warcraft and you know he is right.

I heard the podcast I know what one guy told those two guys. I know that two people from Joblo talked to a few Fox guys at comic con and they said that Wolverine is really well done.

If you hate Venom, then why did you write a Venom script?

Try not to be an a**hole! Maybe respect other peoples opinions and express yours with more depth than "don't question me again". It's an open forum. No one is any different than the other but atleast I ask questions why rather than see your 2000 + posts and just say, "Wow, he is a bigger nerd than me! I better defer to him." 2000+ posts. THere's guys with 10000 and 20000 and more. They don't act like a**holes so why do you?

But I guess Uber-omniscent-nerdman must be right.
"World of Warcraft"?!... Take a hike, jerk-off, 'World of Warcraft' is a loser's game. And, another thing, I ain't an a**hole, I'm just arrogant. Get that through your head. I wrote a 'Venom' script to further example to people how I'd like to see a 'Venom' movie in reality. Also, what the %$&# are you talking about? 1 post, 2 post, 3 post, take your %$&#in' pick, I never said my post-count mattered against anything you imbusile, and another thing, anyone who thinks their better than people by their number of posts are immediate a**holes.
 

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