Venom now has a stand alone film, according to the studio.

[cherokeesam]

If Carnage isn't the main villain in Venom's first film, who would be?

And S6 doesn't need Spider-Man. On the contrary, putting Spider-Man in an S6 movie would make it worse for that and the next Spider-Man movie.

The press release made it abundantly clear that all the movies form a continuous story arc, and they emphasized Spidey's involvement. It's not a slam dunk, but it's highly likely that Spidey is still the hero throughout the ongoing saga, but at least two of the films will be shown from the villain's POV.

 

[I'm Venom]

Also, I think Venom being in Amazing Spider-Man 3 is a possibility. They'd have to set up Brock and his dealings with Peter/Spidey, the symbiote, symbiote Spidey, Venom. They could show Brock's animosity toward Peter and build it up until Peter rids himself of the suit and Brock finds it. Venom deserves to be THE villain in a movie.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I think we could see the Symbiote/Eddie Brock make an appearance in TASM3. As far as Venom being a villain in it, I just can't see it happening.

 

[I'm Venom]

If they do Venom eventually, I wish they'd do the story that got Brock fired - the one with the masked murderer killing people he saw as sinners. That was a powerful story. I know it involved Daredevil, but I really think they can make it work.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Be realistic though, this won't be a movie featuring a serial killer. It'll be aimed for a kid audience afterall.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Be realistic though, this won't be a movie featuring a serial killer. It'll be aimed for a kid audience afterall.

Venom (at least the Brock version) doesn't work when he's kid-centric. This will have to be PG-13 because Venom is a scary, insane character. If Sony tries to do something like Spidey 3's version, the movie will be neutered before it gets off the ground.

 

[Flint Marko]

I can almost guarantee you it'll be PG-13.
If FOX can't muster up the stones to make an R-rated Wolverine movie, you can bet your bottom dollar Sony won't make a Spider-man spin-off film with an R-rating.
I don't think that's a nail in the coffin for the movie, because honestly Venom can work with a PG-13 movie. Yes he's scary, creepy, and violent, but I don't buy into the fact that he absolutely requires an R-rated to get the character right. They've done a decent enough job with Wolverine in all PG-13 movies and he definitely deserves an R-rating more so than Venom.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Agreed. I found Venom in SM3 to be a decent version of the character, he looked very scary and creepy at that rating.

My only problems were he wasn't big enough, he was basically a darker spider-man, and Brock was just shoehorned in and under-utilised.

 

[I'm Venom]

My personal thoughts are:

Amazing Spider-Man 3 - a cliffhanger having Eddie find the symbiote.

 

[DrCosmic]

Also, I think Venom being in Amazing Spider-Man 3 is a possibility. They'd have to set up Brock and his dealings with Peter/Spidey, the symbiote, symbiote Spidey, Venom. They could show Brock's animosity toward Peter and build it up until Peter rids himself of the suit and Brock finds it. Venom deserves to be THE villain in a movie.

This is the problem with the Venom movie. It needs Spidey to be a main character, basically, because Venom's origin is the Spider-Man Symbiote story. Venom could spinoff after that, but you can't just have Brock find the symbiote without showing symbiote Spidey somewhere. That, in all honesty, would be a pretty strong retread of ASM2. Unless they find some new way to do it, that's a bad idea too.

The press release made it abundantly clear that all the movies form a continuous story arc, and they emphasized Spidey's involvement. It's not a slam dunk, but it's highly likely that Spidey is still the hero throughout the ongoing saga, but at least two of the films will be shown from the villain's POV.

A story arc, like the MCU? Yes. A continuous story arc like Venom is a sequel to ASM2? No. That's not what they said at all.

So not only did they not say it, but my statement was: They don't need Spidey. No one's given a reason why they do.

I also said: It'd be worse with him in it. The protagonists (S6) can't kill/ruin/unmask/significantly win against the antagonist if it's Spider-Man. That's very limiting to a story when you can't even significantly harm the antagonist in the end. It would also make the S6 appearing in a Spidey-focused movie redundant if we've already seen the S6 battle Spidey in Sinister Six. So not only would putting Spidey in the movie make the villain movie bad, but it'd make the next ASM movie bad as well.

Why would Sony do that?

 

[cherokeesam]

This is the problem with the Venom movie. It needs Spidey to be a main character, basically, because Venom's origin is the Spider-Man Symbiote story. Venom could spinoff after that, but you can't just have Brock find the symbiote without showing symbiote Spidey somewhere. That, in all honesty, would be a pretty strong retread of ASM2. Unless they find some new way to do it, that's a bad idea too.



A story arc, like the MCU? Yes. A continuous story arc like Venom is a sequel to ASM2? No. That's not what they said at all.

So not only did they not say it, but my statement was: They don't need Spidey. No one's given a reason why they do.

I also said: It'd be worse with him in it. The protagonists (S6) can't kill/ruin/unmask/significantly win against the antagonist if it's Spider-Man. That's very limiting to a story when you can't even significantly harm the antagonist in the end. It would also make the S6 appearing in a Spidey-focused movie redundant if we've already seen the S6 battle Spidey in Sinister Six. So not only would putting Spidey in the movie make the villain movie bad, but it'd make the next ASM movie bad as well.

Why would Sony do that?

A) The MCU is not "a continuous story arc." It's a developing universe, not a single storyline threading through multiple movies.
B) There is absolutely nothing in the Sony press release that speaks against these villain movies being a continuous story arc told across all of the Spideyverse movies. In fact, the language is far more conducive towards that than against that.

And how do you figure that the villains can't "harm" Spidey in their movies? The Death of Gwen arc could be saved for the S6 movie, for instance, letting Sony get a lot more mileage out of the ever-popular Emma Stone (and with Shailene's departure, there's no indication of an MJ showing up in the near future now at all).

Besides, a movie from the villain's POV doesn't mean the villain has to "win," any more than a typical hero's movie requires the hero to "win." Audiences still appreciate movies where the focus character *doesn't* win the day, or get the girl, or achieve his goal, or whatever.

 

[I'm Venom]

I'm not talking about that ultimate Venom either, I mean Eddie Brock in the main continuity. It could be based on the comics and starts when the symbiote breaks Eddie out of prison and in the process spawns Carnage, and then it shows you what happens to him between that period and when he fights Carnage. I'm pretty sure Venom could hold his own without Spider-Man.

 

[Loki882]

Again, are we even sure that it will be Brock? Other men have worn the symbiote, one of whom was already introduced in TASM.

 

[I'm Venom]

Again, it won't be Flash. The producers already confirmed it's Brock in the suit.

 

[Flint Marko]

There was always a zero percent chance anyone other than Brock would be in the film. It shocks me, honestly it does, that anyone really entertained the idea that Flash could be the star of the Venom movie..

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I think the agent venom route is a real possibility, but not for this first film.

 

[I'm Venom]

I'd much rather see Brock as Venom. Put the black costume in Amazing Spider-Man 3, the climax will have Spider-Man lose the symbiote in the tower, then post-credits we see Brock as Venom.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I'd much rather see Brock as Venom. Put the black costume in Amazing Spider-Man 3, the climax will have Spider-Man lose the symbiote in the tower, then post-credits we see Brock as Venom.

Thats pretty much my dream situation I feel like venom needs to be the main villain in TASM4, then spin off into a Lethal Ptotector type film.

 

[DrCosmic]

A) The MCU is not "a continuous story arc." It's a developing universe, not a single storyline threading through multiple movies.
B) There is absolutely nothing in the Sony press release that speaks against these villain movies being a continuous story arc told across all of the Spideyverse movies. In fact, the language is far more conducive towards that than against that.

And how do you figure that the villains can't "harm" Spidey in their movies? The Death of Gwen arc could be saved for the S6 movie, for instance, letting Sony get a lot more mileage out of the ever-popular Emma Stone (and with Shailene's departure, there's no indication of an MJ showing up in the near future now at all).

Besides, a movie from the villain's POV doesn't mean the villain has to "win," any more than a typical hero's movie requires the hero to "win." Audiences still appreciate movies where the focus character *doesn't* win the day, or get the girl, or achieve his goal, or whatever.

A) So you're saying that the MCU doesn't have continuity? If so, which one of the films is a break in the MCU story arc? Which one of the films is unconnected to all the others. Because if the MCU has continuity, then it is, by definition continuous. The Spidey Universe will be continuous as well. This does not mean that all movies will star the same characters though.
B) I agree. I thought at first that continuous meant that they'd all have the same lead character (Spider-Man) in common, but that doesn't make any sense from a marketing or logistical standpoint.

The Sinister Six can definitely harm Spidey. Re-read that statment. Do you think the S6 can kill Spidey? Do you think they can unmask him. Do you think they can kill Aunt May or anything that significantly changes Spider-Man's status quo before going into the next film?

The Death of Gwen Stacy is a bad idea for S6 because:
1) GG is a bad idea to be a member of the S6, because he's not supposed to be sympathetic.
2) DoGS works best when we focus on Peter and see his efforts to save her and his reaction and how it fits in with the rest of his life. In a movie that doesn't focus on Peter, emotional emphasis for the film wouldn't be put on his reaction, but on the main characters' reaction. I'm not really interested in Doc Ock, Electro and Rhino's reaction the Death of Gwen Stacy. The story would be best if they weren't around or involved or connected at all.

Audiences don't really appreciate downer endings in big budget action blockbusters. Can you imagine how people would have felt if the Avengers had lost and Earth had been invaded. Plus, the big thing that a villain movie offers is the villain winning. If the villain loses, well... that's what always happens. It's true they *could* make sure not to do the things that would make the film awesome and unique and popular... but chances are they know the first thing about making movies, as opposed to trying to find reasons to put Spider-Man in a S6 movie.

And, again, like I said, Spidey isn't needed in S6 in any way. I have no idea why anyone would want him in it, much less Sony.

 

[cherokeesam]

A) So you're saying that the MCU doesn't have continuity? If so, which one of the films is a break in the MCU story arc? Which one of the films is unconnected to all the others. Because if the MCU has continuity, then it is, by definition continuous. The Spidey Universe will be continuous as well. This does not mean that all movies will star the same characters though.
B) I agree. I thought at first that continuous meant that they'd all have the same lead character (Spider-Man) in common, but that doesn't make any sense from a marketing or logistical standpoint.

The Sinister Six can definitely harm Spidey. Re-read that statment. Do you think the S6 can kill Spidey? Do you think they can unmask him. Do you think they can kill Aunt May or anything that significantly changes Spider-Man's status quo before going into the next film?

The Death of Gwen Stacy is a bad idea for S6 because:
1) GG is a bad idea to be a member of the S6, because he's not supposed to be sympathetic.
2) DoGS works best when we focus on Peter and see his efforts to save her and his reaction and how it fits in with the rest of his life. In a movie that doesn't focus on Peter, emotional emphasis for the film wouldn't be put on his reaction, but on the main characters' reaction. I'm not really interested in Doc Ock, Electro and Rhino's reaction the Death of Gwen Stacy. The story would be best if they weren't around or involved or connected at all.

Audiences don't really appreciate downer endings in big budget action blockbusters. Can you imagine how people would have felt if the Avengers had lost and Earth had been invaded. Plus, the big thing that a villain movie offers is the villain winning. If the villain loses, well... that's what always happens. It's true they *could* make sure not to do the things that would make the film awesome and unique and popular... but chances are they know the first thing about making movies, as opposed to trying to find reasons to put Spider-Man in a S6 movie.

And, again, like I said, Spidey isn't needed in S6 in any way. I have no idea why anyone would want him in it, much less Sony.

There's a big difference between Marvel Studios' MCU and Sony's Spideyverse --- namely, that the MCU revolves around *a lot* of different franchises that necessarily exist independently of each other; while the Spideyverse centers on a single character, who just happens to be the mascot of Marvel Comics proper. Everything we know about Venom and any variant of the Sinister Six is necessarily contextual to Spider-Man, since they are his rogues' gallery. Neither Venom nor the S6 without Spidey make much sense. Leave Spidey out, and both fandom and the general audiences will be left scratching their heads.

 

[DrCosmic]

First, the franchises of the MCU don't exist independently. They are intimately connected and build to the same story, and derive much of their popularity from their interconnectedness. They simply have more franchises.

Contextual doesn't mean that Spider-Man is a part of the film as a character. The Incredible Hulk is contextual to Captain America, but... no Cap to be seen. No one was scratching their heads. Likewise, while nods to Spider-Man are necessary in these spinoffs, his appearance is not.

Six criminals team up for a big heist to get revenge on/freedom from Osborn/Kingpin meanwhile dealing with *****ey hero Jean DeWolfe/Frog-Man on their tail. Where is the audiences left scratching their heads, exactly? Is there something about a classic story with a superhero twist that makes their heads itch?

Eddie Brock finding an alien symbiote that gives him powers but makes him evil-ish... why would audiences be left scratching their heads. Fans would be miffed that symbiote spidey was cut out of the origin, but scratching their heads? They weren't even scratching their heads for organic web shooters.

Now, as a fan, I've seen Sinister 6 without Spidey in comics, so that doesn't really bother me. I think a lot of the people who think the S6 revolves around Spidey aren't fans of these characters and maybe know them best from cartoons. Venom without the Spidey symbiote origin would be weird though, even for me. Here's how I would do it to address everything without giving Andrew Garfield a major story arc and appearance in someone else's film:

As the after credits cliffhanger for whatever Spider-Man film comes right before Venom, I'd have him meet Eddie Brock and end up getting the symbiote. At the beginning of the Venom movie, symbiote spidey would be tearing stuff up, ruining Eddie's life, and at the end of the first act, there'd be that whole belltower thing, but Eddie would have something to do with that. Because he's the focus, it'd be partially his fault he got the symbiote. Peter Parker would then be off-camera or unconscious recuperating for the rest of the film. Then the Venom story goes from there, Carnage is created and Venom ends up being this brutal protector until he learns what real brutality is from Carnage, and that sets them on a collision course for the end of the film.

So you can have Spidey without giving him any focus and taking away from Venom's film. That would probably be the best way to satisfy the fans. General audience doesn't care, naturally.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I'd much rather see Brock as Venom. Put the black costume in Amazing Spider-Man 3, the climax will have Spider-Man lose the symbiote in the tower, then post-credits we see Brock as Venom.

I hope they introduce Eddie in TASM3, then he gets the symbiote at the end. I really don't want the Venom solo movie to be an origin film.

 

[SilentWarriorZ]

I would like to see venom origins exploring some dark alien race past finally binding with with eddie brock character .

 

[thejon93]

I always thought it'd be cool to start a Venom film where Eddie's already become Venom and he's just "supposedly" murdered Spider-Man without knowledge of it. Imagine the symbiote being like The Thing, where it jumps from host-to-host whenever it's not satisfied with the person's anger, so they take advantage of those evil traits and make people do things that they cannot willingly control because they're fuelled by rage, but Eddie can control it after a while because his anger is always left lingering within him; especially with having the knowledge that he has cancer. I really can't wait to see what their plans are for this Venom film, he's such a great character that I imagine people who see it would prefer seeing him get a film series over Spider-Man.

 

[I'm Venom]

I hope they introduce Eddie in TASM3, then he gets the symbiote at the end. I really don't want the Venom solo movie to be an origin film.

Like the Catwoman movie that had nothing to do with Batman. I still think it would've been confusing to do a Venom movie that ignored Spider-Man 3, if they'd been making Spider-Man 4 or 5 around the same time. I hope they use the crashed shuttle for Venom's origin this time instead of a fallen meteorite from space like in Spider-Man 3. I liked the cartoon.