Batman Begins Was anyone disappointed about the lack of the detective aspect?

[CBG]

Years after the Tim Burton movie, I'm still disappointed with Batman Begins. Sure, it's more accurate to the stories than Burton's Batman, but it's still missing the vital element of the Dark Knight -- Batman is a detective.

We see Bruce travel the world and preparing himself physically. But what of mentally? Bruce as Batman was overall the pinnacle of humans can accomplish in both body AND mind.

Perhaps in the sequel, we may see some detective work. However, I'm not impressed with Batman Begins. Several steps up from Tim Burton's Batman, but I feel it's 'not there' yet.

 

[Bathead]

Well, they didn't dwell on it or focus on it, but he did do some detective work. It showed him researching Gordon, Falcone, etc. ("Blessed bat again, sir.) Interrogating Flass is detective work. Again, not a lot, but it was there. I suspect (and hope) there may be more of a focus on it in the next film, as Batman tries to find out just what this Joker character is all about.

 

[Fenrir]

Well, they didn't dwell on it or focus on it, but he did do some detective work. It showed him researching Gordon, Falcone, etc. ("Blessed bat again, sir.) Interrogating Flass is detective work. Again, not a lot, but it was there. I suspect (and hope) there may be more of a focus on it in the next film, as Batman tries to find out just what this Joker character is all about.

Yup. Add to that he also put tabs and spied on Falcone, Crane and Rachel. He took pictures of Judge Faden linking him to Falcone and gathered evidence to build up a strong case against them ("drugs, prints, cargo manifests...this bat character gave us everything) He also went to investigate evidence in the house in the Narrows. There was detective work in Begins. It was simply more "old-school" detective work than CSI.

 

[7Hells]

Yup 2, however, I think we will either see more detective work in TDK or it will be longer scenes for greater emphasis.

 

[November Rain]

perhaps, too much emphasis on martial arts and not enough into cracking the criminal mind, which is the most important part of bats, but there is plenty of time to establish he's a genius with subsequent films...

i guess everything has it's place....

 

[Bathead]

I'm thinking, now that he's been established, and his origin is out of the way, there will be more room in TDK and any other sequels to focus on other aspects of his character.

 

[CConn]

I wasn't too upset about it. I mean, you can't have everything about Batman in a single film. BB showed what it needed to, did it well, and that's good enough for me.

Now if there's no detective element in TDK or the third film, then I'll be disappointed.

 

[Seen]

There were detective elements. Bruce uncovering information on Gordon, Rachel (as a street bum) and then in his study with all of the compounded data he was looking over.

Also, Batman used his detective skills to question Flass and uncover the location of the poison. So while there weren't scenes of Batman deliberately looking under a microscope, he did utilize some aspects of his detective skills.

 

[drunkhomer]

well tooooo much detective work can make the movie boring

 

[Bathead]

And toooo much action will make it mindless.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

There was detective work in Batman Begins. I'm actually surprised how subtle, and hardcore it was.

But, remember......we only got Batman for about half the movie. Kinda tough to have him do detective work pre-Batman......it'd seem to just be filler if you did that.

Again, though....like some people pointed out. There's detective work.

He does stakeouts on numerous people, with eavesdropping on Falcone- where he learned about the shipment AND the hit on Rachel, he interrogated Flass....got a lead to the narrows, where he uncovered evidence....and he managed to interrogate Crane too, where he learned Ra's was behind it. Infact, if Ra's hadn't sped up his plans......Bruce probably would have pieced it all together. It's just he only had about 15 minutes to do so (between his interrogation of Crane......speeding away from the cops.....and showing up at the party).

So, stakeouts, eavesdropping, interrogations, running down a lead to the narrows where he found evidence......those all count as detective work.

It's just more like THE WIRE and not like CSI.

 

[The Kid]

It's not just about being a detective though that's part of it. Bruce is supposed to be genius level I believe. He's always thinking ahead of his opponents and all that. But it's the other way around in Begins. Ra's outwits Bruce, even explains the entire plan to him oldskool villain style, then batman just has gordon blow up his train tracks, problem solved with an explosion.

Rachael did more detective work when she figured out bruce was batman. Yes ha ha ha I know that got some panties in a bunch.

 

[LexCorp]

Years after the Tim Burton movie, I'm still disappointed with Batman Begins. Sure, it's more accurate to the stories than Burton's Batman, but it's still missing the vital element of the Dark Knight -- Batman is a detective.

We see Bruce travel the world and preparing himself physically. But what of mentally? Bruce as Batman was overall the pinnacle of humans can accomplish in both body AND mind.

Perhaps in the sequel, we may see some detective work. However, I'm not impressed with Batman Begins. Several steps up from Tim Burton's Batman, but I feel it's 'not there' yet.

I would say there is more than enough in this film.

The over take of his own company, tracking criminals and also Gordons home address etc...

That takes some investigating.

 

[November Rain]

let's be fair, MOTP deals with batman's early days and in all the flashbacks, his detective skills are rarely brought up, it more deals with his fighting aspects and his will to make a difference...

it would be easy to realise that when bats starts dealing with more formidable foe like the riddler, joker and other intellectual criminals that a significant background into criminology (as well as his street experience) will kick in to make him the figure he is today.

Rome wasn't built in a day...

 

[El Payaso]

I have seen the detective aspect in both B89 and B Begins. Maybe not enough for some tastes but it's there.

 

[LexCorp]

let's be fair, MOTP deals with batman's early days and in all the flashbacks, his detective skills are rarely brought up, it more deals with his fighting aspects and his will to make a difference...

it would be easy to realise that when bats starts dealing with more formidable foe like the riddler, joker and other intellectual criminals that a significant background into criminology (as well as his street experience) will kick in to make him the figure he is today.

Rome wasn't built in a day...

God bless MR Rain. Always around at key moments today.

 

[CLARKY]

Years after the Tim Burton movie, I'm still disappointed with Batman Begins. Sure, it's more accurate to the stories than Burton's Batman, but it's still missing the vital element of the Dark Knight -- Batman is a detective.

I especially love how you immediately place that Begins is more accurate than Burton's films ....
I think it isn't.
Anyway I agree with you, I think they missed the point here but since Batman begins is not a model of batman film for me, it doesn't disturb me that much.
It was more "good spirit"/ "good chakras" oriented ... but it is the trademark of D.Goyer so ...

 

[LexCorp]

I especially love how you immediately place that Begins is more accurate than Burton's films ....
I think it isn't.
Anyway I agree with you, I think they missed the point here but since Batman begins is not a model of batman film for me, it doesn't disturb me that much.
It was more "good spirit"/ "good chakras" oriented ... but it is the trademark of D.Goyer so ...

In what way do you think it less accurate? Just curious...

 

[CLARKY]

in the same way it is suppsed to be "MORE ACCURATE"
It's a discussion that has been done 1000 times I don't want to do it again.
I was just saying that is not definite knowledge nor fact that batman begins is this or that.
See what I mean?
And I think this thread is abou the detective work I recall ...
When I wrote my post I was sure someone would skip my comment and be more interested in the more accurate oh well ...

 

[November Rain]

God bless MR Rain. Always around at key moments today.

I don't see why it should be considered a hinderance in one form a media and completely overlooked in another...

perhaps the fact that bat's origin is dealt with in a flashback in MOTP and there are still detective aspects within the film that gives fans a selective memory of his past.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

It's not just about being a detective though that's part of it. Bruce is supposed to be genius level I believe. He's always thinking ahead of his opponents and all that. But it's the other way around in Begins. Ra's outwits Bruce, even explains the entire plan to him oldskool villain style, then batman just has gordon blow up his train tracks, problem solved with an explosion.

Well, yeah....Genius Level. But, he doesn't automatically get there. Look at BATMAN YEAR ONE, for example. He is sooooo far from being the legendary grizzled veteran there.

How did Ra's outwit him?

By lying to him about his identity? That's kinda a bull**** outwit I think, seeing as how it's just lying.....and not actually outwitting.

Bruce probably would have figured it all out, that's why Ra's sped up his plans. Remember, his line at the Mansion "Your antics at the Asylum forced my hand".....which, to me, means he had to speed up his plans because of Batman, he was starting to get close and had essentially ****ed his plans up in a way.

Rachael did more detective work when she figured out bruce was batman. Yes ha ha ha I know that got some panties in a bunch.

He told. She didn't figure anything out.

let's be fair, MOTP deals with batman's early days and in all the flashbacks, his detective skills are rarely brought up, it more deals with his fighting aspects and his will to make a difference...

Good point. He was really really raw there too. Although it was all pre-Batman stuff too, but I think we kinda got the idea that he didn't just get that good, he had to work his way.

I have seen the detective aspect in both B89 and B Begins. Maybe not enough for some tastes but it's there.

Totally.

And if anything, B89 did get the Scientist aspect in there.....whereas Batman Begins didn't.

I especially love how you immediately place that Begins is more accurate than Burton's films ....
I think it isn't.

Well, your wrong......b/c it is.

And, realize, whenever anyone on these boards uses the word "accurate" or "faithful" or "true to the spirit".......we always go back to the comics.

I am NOT taking a swipe at Burton's films, but......Nolan's film was much more faithful than anyother film to the Batman comics. If there's any other media out there to rival BEGINS or even be more accurate, it'd probably be Bruce Timm's animated versions.

But, compared to every other film? No contest.

 

[CBG]

I especially love how you immediately place that Begins is more accurate than Burton's films ....
I think it isn't.

You call the Joker killing Bruce's parents accurate?

 

[El Payaso]

Let's don't start. Begins has a huge amount of changes.

But the really annoying thing is how some people talk about it like it's a bad thing.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Absolutely.

 

[chosen1]

That the only thing Keaton has on Bale. He was a better bruce wayne.

The scene in batman returns when he is doing research on the red triangle gang and is starting to suspect fowl play w/ penguin was a masterpiece.