Comics Was it a good idea to destroy the Parker marriage?

[kainedamo]

Christ hes saying that the characters themselves existed way before the marriage chronologically, not when they first appeared in the comics.

Niether character appeared until recently. They didn't appear before the marriage.

 

[Venom 1988]

Niether character appeared until recently. They didn't appear before the marriage.

*slaps forehead*

Did I say they did? No I said they existed before the marriage chronologically but they didn't make their first appearance until recently. Just like Eddie Brock exists chronologically before the marriage but didn't make his first actual publication appearance until ASM 300.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Someday people will realize two things:

1) Arguing with Blader is a waste of time.

2) He is always wrong.

And then we can all be happy-happy joy-joy.

 

[kainedamo]

*slaps forehead*

Did I say they did? No I said they existed before the marriage chronologically but they didn't make their first appearance until recently. Just like Eddie Brock exists chronologically before the marriage but didn't make his first actual publication appearance until ASM 300.

I realized what you meant... but honestly your point is so confusing that it doesn't make any sense. It's like, cheating, quite honestly.

What about The Other? Chronologically, the Spider God thing existed thousands of years before Peter married Mary Jane. But that changed when Mephisto re-wrote history. It's uncertain exactly how it's changed and I doubt we'll get an explanation.

The point is, anything that happened AFTER the marriage seems to be fair game for inexplicable change that doesn't make any sense - including EVERYONE losing their memory of Spidey's identity. Surely it would only have been necassary to take away the memory from the general public. Why take it from Aunt May? It makes no damn sense and the whole concept is full of insane holes.

For someone to ask "did Morlun and Ezekiel happen the same way?" is a very valid question. Especially considering that they were what led to The Other. It CAN'T have happened the same way. "But Morlun and Ezekiel were born before the marraige lolz" is a ******ed argument and has no relevance. As far as I'm concerned, JMS' whole run is in a continuity black hole.

Blader says that a JMS villain will appear. I don't know where that information comes from. But if that happens, I'm willing to bet that the appearance will simply ask more questions than it answers. "Why do you think that, Kaine?" Because these **** holes have handled this event horribly so far.

Did Morlun's previous appearance make the slightest bit of sense? No. What makes you think a JMS villain appearance is going to make sense in the new, screwed continuity?

 

[UK_Stu]

Heh, I notice that no-one has mentioned to Harry, he has an age-advanced step brother and sister, whose mother was one of his girlfirends from college...

or are they dead now or just forgotten?

 

[kainedamo]

If I have my information right, that was the one thing JMS wanted reversed that they wouldn't reverse. So we'll probably see them at some point.

I think JMS should really have took a hard stance with Joe Q early on. I like JMS but sometimes it just seems he let Joe Q walk all over him. The very minute Joe Q started telling JMS how to write his stories, JMS should have said "either you let me write it the way I want it written or I'm out".

 

[Orest]

hey guys im back. two more days until the ASM issue 565. any1 look forward to it?

 

[Blader5489]

I realized what you meant... but honestly your point is so confusing that it doesn't make any sense. It's like, cheating, quite honestly.

What about The Other? Chronologically, the Spider God thing existed thousands of years before Peter married Mary Jane. But that changed when Mephisto re-wrote history. It's uncertain exactly how it's changed and I doubt we'll get an explanation.

The point is, anything that happened AFTER the marriage seems to be fair game for inexplicable change that doesn't make any sense - including EVERYONE losing their memory of Spidey's identity. Surely it would only have been necassary to take away the memory from the general public. Why take it from Aunt May? It makes no damn sense and the whole concept is full of insane holes.

For someone to ask "did Morlun and Ezekiel happen the same way?" is a very valid question. Especially considering that they were what led to The Other. It CAN'T have happened the same way. "But Morlun and Ezekiel were born before the marraige lolz" is a ******ed argument and has no relevance. As far as I'm concerned, JMS' whole run is in a continuity black hole.

Blader says that a JMS villain will appear. I don't know where that information comes from. But if that happens, I'm willing to bet that the appearance will simply ask more questions than it answers. "Why do you think that, Kaine?" Because these **** holes have handled this event horribly so far.

Did Morlun's previous appearance make the slightest bit of sense? No. What makes you think a JMS villain appearance is going to make sense in the new, screwed continuity?

Are. You. ******ed?

Ezekiel is an old man. Morlun is some ancient deity that has walked the Earth for God-knows-how-long. In the MU, they existed long before Peter and MJ were ever married. Let's use Sins Past as another example. Gwen and Norman's affair occurred long before Peter's wedding did, in the MU, but in the real world it wasn't introduced into the comics until a few years ago.

Come on man, this is common ****ing sense.

 

[Blader5489]

Someday people will realize two things:

1) Arguing with Blader is a waste of time.

2) He is always wrong.

And then we can all be happy-happy joy-joy.

Someday people will realize two things:

1) Doc Destruction is secretly in love with me.

2) He is also a prepubescent little girl, so the only way he can show his affection is by constantly stalking me and trolling my posts, regardless of what I'm actually saying.

 

[Styleshift]

Blader isn't always wrong.
At least He's right in this case...Morlun and Ezekiel were both around even before Spidey was born.
Whether he had encountered them or not in the new status quo is something not seen yet.


jeez I'm becoming the voice of reason or something...haha.

 

[Blader5489]

Blader isn't always wrong.
At least He's right in this case...Morlun and Ezekiel were both around even before Spidey was born.
Whether he had encountered them or not in the new status quo is something not seen yet.


jeez I'm becoming the voice of reason or something...haha.

It's something of a catch-22, because so much of JMS' run was controversial and unpopular that it'd be unlikely any of the BND writers will revisit stuff like the spider-totem or Gwen's kids.

But we do know for sure that JMS' run still happened. Despite the editors/writers constantly saying "yes, this still happened" there's also the fact that Pete's teaching history was referenced back in ASM #546.

 

[kainedamo]

Are. You. ******ed?

Ezekiel is an old man. Morlun is some ancient deity that has walked the Earth for God-knows-how-long. In the MU, they existed long before Peter and MJ were ever married. Let's use Sins Past as another example. Gwen and Norman's affair occurred long before Peter's wedding did, in the MU, but in the real world it wasn't introduced into the comics until a few years ago.

Come on man, this is common ****ing sense.

Can. You. ****ing. Read??

What about The Other? Chronologically, the Spider God thing existed thousands of years before Peter married Mary Jane. But that changed when Mephisto re-wrote history. It's uncertain exactly how it's changed and I doubt we'll get an explanation.

The point is, anything that happened AFTER the marriage seems to be fair game for inexplicable change that doesn't make any sense - including EVERYONE losing their memory of Spidey's identity. Surely it would only have been necassary to take away the memory from the general public. Why take it from Aunt May? It makes no damn sense and the whole concept is full of insane holes.

Read, god damn you Blader. READ!! Abc. R-E-A-D.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!

Making the argument that Ezekiel and Morlun were born before the marriage therefore their appearances in the books must be completely unchanged by the new continuity is completely moronic.

Harry was born before the marriage. And yet his history has been changed.

 

[kainedamo]

It's something of a catch-22, because so much of JMS' run was controversial and unpopular that it'd be unlikely any of the BND writers will revisit stuff like the spider-totem or Gwen's kids.

But we do know for sure that JMS' run still happened. Despite the editors/writers constantly saying "yes, this still happened" there's also the fact that Pete's teaching history was referenced back in ASM #546.

This is untrue. The sales say otherwise.

His most unpopular and controversial points in his run, ironically, came from the ideas of Joe Q himself - the man behind OMD/BND. The man that told JMS how to write Sins Past. The genius that decided The Other should be 12 issues long.

Most of JMS' run was fairly succesful.

 

[kainedamo]

What amuses me is that Blader thinks Spidey's history has only minor changes. Whereas in my opinion, his history, ESPECIALLY everything recent, is in question.

If Peter's powers are back to normal, does that mean The Other didn't happen? Does that mean that business with the Queen in Jenkins' Spidey book didn't happen?

If Mary Jane and Peter are seperated, why did they live together at Avengers tower?

If Tony Stark can't remember Pete's identity, how does he make sense out of recent events in his brain?

I could go on and on all day.

 

[Blader5489]

Can. You. ****ing. Read??




Read, god damn you Blader. READ!! Abc. R-E-A-D.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!

Making the argument that Ezekiel and Morlun were born before the marriage therefore their appearances in the books must be completely unchanged by the new continuity is completely moronic.

Harry was born before the marriage. And yet his history has been changed.

Holy **** man, you can't be this dense.

I'm not saying that because Ezekiel and Morlun were born before the marriage, their stories (Coming Home, Book of Ezekiel, The Other, etc.) remain unchanged, I'm just saying they haven't been wiped out of existence. The poster who originally raised the point asked if Morlun and Ezekiel still existed, and obviously they did, because their births and the latter's acquisition of "spider powers" happened long before the Parker marriage in the MU timeline. And in any case, erasing the marriage wouldn't erase the spider-totem stories considering those stories happened while Pete and MJ were separated; his relationship status had absolutely nothing to do with the events of those stories.

And yes, Harry's history has changed--the parts that occurred AFTER the marriage, like his death. Not his history from before the marriage, like his history of drug abuse or his stint as the Green Goblin.

This is COMMON. SENSE. I can't believe I even have to break it down like this.

 

[kainedamo]

I'm actually talking to a brick wall.

Okay, right, think about this Blader. Try using a little thing called logic, okay? I'll try to break it down as simply as I can for you.

Spider-Man no longer has his suped up powers. He's back to having his regular powers.

It is reasonable to assume that this may be because the events of The Other are different. No other explanation has been given. If an explanation is given, I submit that they're making it up as they go along - because OMD/BND has been an incredibly ill-thought out event.

If the events of The Other are different, it is also reasonable to assume events with Morlun and Ezekiel may not have played out the same way - seeing as Peter's relationship with Ezekiel is tied to The Other.

Do you understand this logic?

Do you also understand that it would be impossible for Peter's time with the Avengers to have played out exactly the same way? Why would MJ stay at Avengers tower if they are seperated?

 

[Blader5489]

What part of...

I'm not saying that because Ezekiel and Morlun were born before the marriage, their stories (Coming Home, Book of Ezekiel, The Other, etc.) remain unchanged, I'm just saying they haven't been wiped out of existence. The poster who originally raised the point asked if Morlun and Ezekiel still existed, and obviously they did, because their births and the latter's acquisition of "spider powers" happened long before the Parker marriage in the MU timeline.

...did you not understand?

It seems like an awfully simple concept to grasp: changing one point in history does not retroactively erase people that existed prior to that point. Could the stories involving Pete, Ezekiel, and Morlun have changed? They could have; I doubt it, but I don't rule it out as a possibility, because those stories occurred long after the wedding did. But OMD did not, and could not have, erased Ezekiel and Morlun from existence; they were alive long before the Parker wedding occurred (within the timeline of the Marvel universe) and they would not have been obliterated from the past just because Pete never settled down.

I'm not talking about what happened to Pete's Other powers; I'm not talking about if the stories involving Pete and the spider-totem still happened; I'm not talking about how Peter and Tony remember their professional relationship or if they, or anyone, remember the Parker family living in Avengers Tower. I'm not talking about any of that. The only thing I am talking about, and have been talking about for the last page, is that Morlun and Ezekiel, as characters, could not have been wiped out in OMD because they existed long before the marriage happened.

That's. All. Don't condescend to me about logical thinking when you clearly have problems with reading comprehension.

 

[shinlyle]

Someday people will realize two things:

1) Arguing with Blader is a waste of time.

2) He is always wrong.

And then we can all be happy-happy joy-joy.

Preach it, brother!

I'm SO very proud to be on his ignore list. I wear that as a badge of honor.

 

[kainedamo]

Frankly Blader you don't know if they exist or not until they are mentioned in the BND continuity.

And if they exist, do you accept that it is possible their history of interaction with Spidey could be different?

 

[carnageehw]

If Peter's powers are back to normal, does that mean The Other didn't happen?

The Other could not have happened IMO. There is no way Peter could possibly remember what happened in the other, in this new universe. There is no way the Avengers remember Peter dying, but don't remember who it actually was.

If Mary Jane and Peter are seperated, why did they live together at Avengers tower?

I guess you could say that they just lived together, like a lot of normal couples do. However, it raises huge questions about who the avergers can remember someone living there with MAry Jane, and that person being Spider-Man, but not remember who it was.

If Tony Stark can't remember Pete's identity, how does he make sense out of recent events in his brain?

Why they didn't just say "Hey, none of this ever happened." or "No one remembers ANYTHING relating to Spidey's secret identity is beyond me.


Harry's ressurection still pisses me off the most, though.

 

[Orest]

omg guys. cmon. this is a discussion on the Parker marriage. dont be fighting with each other. it isnt worth it now is it? and so far no1 has answered on issue 565.

 

[Blader5489]

Frankly Blader you don't know if they exist or not until they are mentioned in the BND continuity.

What kind of argument is that? If the JMS stories still happened, then Morlun and Ezekiel won't return because they're dead. If those stories didn't happen, then Morlun and Ezekiel still won't return because the whole mystical angle was unpopular and the BND team wants to start fresh.

In any case, they either do or at least did exist, because, as I have said a billion times now, Morlun and Ezekiel were alive for a long time in the MU, long before Pete and MJ ever got married. I still don't see the logic of OMD could retroactively erase people from existence long beforee the marriage; changing history affects the future, not the past. "DUUUUUHHHHH".

The question isn't "Do they still exist?", it's "Are they still alive?"

And if they exist, do you accept that it is possible their history of interaction with Spidey could be different?

Well, gee, what did I say in my last post...

Could the stories involving Pete, Ezekiel, and Morlun have changed? They could have; I doubt it, but I don't rule it out as a possibility, because those stories occurred long after the wedding did.

 

[Blader5489]

omg guys. cmon. this is a discussion on the Parker marriage. dont be fighting with each other. it isnt worth it now is it? and so far no1 has answered on issue 565.

It's not out yet.

 

[farmernudie]

SHINLYLE: Preach it, brother!

I'm SO very proud to be on his ignore list. I wear that as a badge of honor.

Yeh, i don't know why anyone even bothers trying to explain anything to Blader because it is completely and utterly pointless.

I am glad that I am ignored by him now too, because he 'd always hijack any statement of mine and get all rowdy over it and weird and stuff. Often I couldn't even understand why his feathers would be ruffled, except for the fact that i wasn't totally waving my pom poms in the air vigorously or something.

Sheesh. People need to give up with the debating with that guy already.
I'm surprised he hasn't put most of this board on his ignore list.

Sheesh, lots of people and ideas were born before the marriage...people's points are that there are holes GALORE and QUESTIONS GALORE from this dippy poorly written reboot and yet the only one that it makes perfect sense to is him. Blader has no questions and loves having Joey spoon feed him deviled eggs.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I'm actually talking to a brick wall

You were warned.