Comics Was it a good idea to destroy the Parker marriage?

[farmernudie]

SHINLYLE:

Broken Record.

Hiis past has changed irrevoccably. Harry's death didn't affect that much?! Argh. It helped spur on Norman's hatred of Spidey, and it was Peter's best friend! It wa also one of the only great Spider-stories of the nineties, and now it NEVER HAPPENED. Yeah...it makes a difference. Yes, Kraven's Last Hunt is now different, too. So many sotries have changed...especially if MJ never knew Peter was Spidey, or if she never revealed that she knew he was Spidey. It changes their entire relationship and every interaction they've ever had.

Also, I know this is an alien concept to you, but living together for years is TOTALLY different than being married to someone...simply because peopl can just up and leave. When you're married, it's a REAL commitment. A commitment before God that you will ALWAYS be with that person (although most end in divorce). Still, the fact is, there are actual ramifications for leaving your spouse....leaving your bf or gf just involves packing up and moving out.

Ugh.

The same thing it has meant the past 503 times that someone has brought it up...and you/ve refused to listen each time. UGH. I'm SO happy that I'm on your ignore list.

I wish Blader would pick up any issue in McFarlane's run....or JMS,....Larsen's or anyone's for that matter since the marriage (alone) as he talks, without getting into Harry or the other things altered.

I wish he'd re-read them and see how they read as he has to take out the "MARRIAGE"...!!!

It is NOT the SAME to say it lightly. Not only is the wording for EVERY ISSUE now OBSOLETE, because this Pete's history is not like that...but not being married to someone is VERY different.

WIthout even getting into the fact that when you change even the SLIGHTEST thing in history or TIME....the SLIGHTEST....it is a VERY significant change in the timeline. And yet, here, they changed MAJOR things.

So you can't change MAJOR things in time, and have your cake and eat it too...by saying "IT IS ALL THE SAME"....!!!

But, luckily, i think i too, am on Blader's ignore list t: I think i used the word "Cheesy" too many times and he's allergic to the word or something.
But, it is nice to not get randomly attacked by him anymore either, since I don't say IT IS ALL THE SAME over and over like he does.

I mean, if he likes it...fine...but i am tired of Marvel and their cheerleaders trying to forcefeed us that we should like this and that everything is ALL THE SAME. We're not stupid.

 

[stillanerd]

Broken Record.

Hiis past has changed irrevoccably. Harry's death didn't affect that much?! Argh. It helped spur on Norman's hatred of Spidey, and it was Peter's best friend! It wa also one of the only great Spider-stories of the nineties, and now it NEVER HAPPENED. Yeah...it makes a difference. Yes, Kraven's Last Hunt is now different, too. So many sotries have changed...especially if MJ never knew Peter was Spidey, or if she never revealed that she knew he was Spidey. It changes their entire relationship and every interaction they've ever had.

Also, I know this is an alien concept to you, but living together for years is TOTALLY different than beign married to someone...simply because peopl can just up and leave. When you're married, it's a REAL commitment. A commitment before God that you will ALWAYS be with that person (although most end in divorce). Still, the fact is, there are actual ramifications for leaving your spouse....leaving your bf or gf just involves packing up and moving out.

Ugh.

Exactly right. Which was one of the reasons why Joe Q retconed Peter and MJ's relationship to being a common law marriage instead of an actual one with One More Day was because he thought it would be easier and less "messy" if they broke up rather than divorced (oh, the irony!). Likewise, if all the stories of Peter and MJ still count with the exception of them not being married, then why did Joe Q also state that MJ was never pregnant when she was with Peter? Perhaps because two people living together having almost having a kid out of wedlock would be viewed differently than say a married couple almost having a kid? No difference, my foot.

 

[kainedamo]

I wish Blader would pick up any issue in McFarlane's run....or JMS,....Larsen's or anyone's for that matter since the marriage (alone) as he talks, without getting into Harry or the other things altered.

I wish he'd re-read them and see how they read as he has to take out the "MARRIAGE"...!!!

It is NOT the SAME to say it lightly. Not only is the wording for EVERY ISSUE now OBSOLETE, because this Pete's history is not like that...but not being married to someone is VERY different.

WIthout even getting into the fact that when you change even the SLIGHTEST thing in history or TIME....the SLIGHTEST....it is a VERY significant change in the timeline. And yet, here, they changed MAJOR things.

So you can't change MAJOR things in time, and have your cake and eat it too...by saying "IT IS ALL THE SAME"....!!!

But, luckily, i think i too, am on Blader's ignore list t: I think i used the word "Cheesy" too many times and he's allergic to the word or something.
But, it is nice to not get randomly attacked by him anymore either, since I don't say IT IS ALL THE SAME over and over like he does.

I mean, if he likes it...fine...but i am tired of Marvel and their cheerleaders trying to forcefeed us that we should like this and that everything is ALL THE SAME. We're not stupid.

Well I've just quoted you so he can read your post.

I just don't like how Blader and TheManOfBat have to be dishonest both to us and to themselves to defend BND.

 

[Blader5489]

Well I've just quoted you so he can read your post.

I just don't like how Blader and TheManOfBat have to be dishonest both to us and to themselves to defend BND.

First of all, I don't owe you any favors pal. If you don't like what I'm saying, then ignore me. No one's got a gun to your head.

Second... dishonest? How am I being dishonest? I'm expressing my opinion. There's no "truth" involved, nothing objective, nothing to be honest or dishonest about. I'm just giving you my take on things, and I think I've been quite clear on that.

And no, I can't read farmernudie's posts, I'm deathly allergic to them.

 

[kainedamo]

The only part of his past that is gone is his marriage to MJ. is a blatently false statement.

 

[Blader5489]

Yeah, and I think I made clear in my next post what that meant.

 

[kainedamo]

You're still incredibly selective about what matters in Spidey history to the point where it seems to me (I could be wrong) that there is a slight dishonesty. Harry's death matters to Spidey history, as does his relationship with other characters over the years. They may not matter to guys that don't read the books, but they matter to the guys that do.

 

[Blader5489]

What part of "it's just my opinion, there's nothing objectively factual about it, so there's nothing to be dishonest about" isn't getting through to you?

I never said Harry's death wasn't a big thing in Spider-Man history, but as far as being a fundamental part of his past...I have to disagree. Whether Harry lived or died 15+ years ago doesn't change the kind of character Pete became.

IMO.

 

[kainedamo]

I appreciate that it's your opinion but I still think that you are being dishonest (to yourself and to us) in order to defend OMD/BND.

 

[Blader5489]

Who's defending OMD? I'm certainly not. Only thing I liked about that story was Quesada's rendition of Mephisto.

 

[UK_Stu]

What part of "it's just my opinion, there's nothing objectively factual about it, so there's nothing to be dishonest about" isn't getting through to you?

I never said Harry's death wasn't a big thing in Spider-Man history, but as far as being a fundamental part of his past...I have to disagree. Whether Harry lived or died 15+ years ago doesn't change the kind of character Pete became.

IMO.

I'm not sure about that, I think having Harry dead or alive makes a real difference to the character Peter became.

Plus essentially there are now a ton of stories, which will have happened differently. Peter's, MJ's, Liz's, Norman's motivation for doing all sorts of things would have been dramatically different and there is every chance the story we know in the past may not have happened the same way.

 

[Venom 1988]

Unless of course Harry secretly went to Europe and Peter didn't know Harry was alive until recently.... Remember theres a big gap of time missing that supposedly we'll learn soon in upcoming issues.

Not defending BND here, just pointing something out thats all

 

[J. J. Jameson]

No. It was a dumb move...made dumber only by the fact that it was accompanied by a magical mind-wipe and altered history.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...ASM is dull now. And except for Zeb Wells's arc, it never reaches above "Meh."

Of course, I guess "meh" is better than the "OMG wHAt is dat FoOl Gale doiNg???"

 

[DACrowe]

I will say the marriage, KLH (which was very heavily affected by Peter's marriage) and the death of Harry Osborn had huge effects on Peter. Losing Harry and Norman returning def. changed the tone of Spidey and he became wiser but also more weary and cynical. I think after losing Harry he has become someone who is very hurt by all the loss he has suffered (including May, but even before OMD he seemed to forget that with the 1999 relaunch).

But there was a shift in Peter's understanding of things and he has been more cynical since then and having a weary knowledge of things. Now with BND that is gone. I'm somewhat glad that his cynical streak is less extreme (it really began when Gwen Stacy died) but Harry living did change his personality backwards too much and now he is just too immature.

 

[Styleshift]

Who's defending OMD? I'm certainly not. Only thing I liked about that story was Quesada's rendition of Mephisto.

Pipe down you 2.
Kaine, Blader wasn't attacking anyone just yet....
Blader, Kaine has good reasons for what he has said so far. Even though I respect your opinions. You must respect ours as well. I've seen you on these boards more than a few times trying to crush the opinions of others with certain remarks or statements, if you disagree thats fine...but please try to choose your words more carefully...

so can't we all just get along? jeez i mean you 2 got me saying that and no one even kicked my ass...

 

[Styleshift]

Speaking from a logical point of view....
Was it a bad idea to destroy the marriage?
yes, it was. The spider-marriage love it or hate it has become an icon.
Quesada and company never gave a good reason to erase it.

For them to erase something that become an icon in such a poor manners meant the story telling should have been PHENOMENAL. but phenomenal is not what we got. we've gotten mediocre to superb. (zeb wells arc was definitely a step in the right direction.)
the characters are rehashes and VERY uninspired. (with the exception of paper doll to a certain degree)
Let's all just accept that there are some good things about BND. like the return of the web shooters. the return of the secret identity. no more magic spiders. but there are some bad things. the return of harry, (which befuddles continuity even more) the return of aunt may (to her annoying clueless old lady status) destorying years of peter AND mj's character devolpment. its like there hell bent to make people not like MJ.

even ultimate peter isn't as childish as this new spidey.
One of there excuses is that "we've lost the soap opera element"
well screw that! no one picks up a book to see who will peter date next. it gets annoying seeing how a guy will lose a girl this week because of his great responsibility.

I think the truth is that they are tired of being creative. they made spidey single because they want to follow a formula albeit tweaking it a bit.

 

[farmernudie]

STYLESHIFT: Let's all just accept that there are some good things about BND. like the return of the web shooters. the return of the secret identity. no more magic spiders. but there are some bad things. the return of harry, (which befuddles continuity even more) the return of aunt may (to her annoying clueless old lady status) destorying years of peter AND mj's character devolpment. its like there hell bent to make people not like MJ.

Yeh....those are good...but they took away the web shooters and the identity knowing they'd just retcon it back, part of their long plan Joe admits now that they knew they were going this direction for about two years and all of it was to help lead up to the major retcon.

So, that is negated, and insulting really, that they wrote whatever they wanted...ie THE UNMASKING...knowing that the devil would be retconning it all away magically...anything bad they wanted to do to spidey they could write it and just have a quick magic fix in the end when they got to their OMD/BND phase.

So is it really good?? To say that OMD/BND FIXED AND RETURNED these things to us?? NOT REALLY..!!! Because that is like pre-planned slapping us in the face on purpose over and over and then having them stop and saying one pre-planned day that now they're not doing it and it's much better.

Marvel let things go in any direction the whole time knowing they'd just put it all back in the bottle with their magic retcon. Then we're suppose to be grateful that they planned it that way. HECK, JMS had some good stuff too in his run, that was awesome, it sure feels like NONE OF IT MATTERS after this reboot. And the whole plan was to reboot it all.

 

[kguillou]

^^I KNOW! Peter becoming a teacher, organic webshooters, the Loki favor, morlun (does he even exist now?), Ezekiel (does HE even exist now??) and lets not forget Peter completely owning the Kingpin. All of that is gone...oh well, I am enjoying BND, but damn man, there was some good stuff in JMS' run that we'll never see come into fruition.

 

[Blader5489]

^^I KNOW! Peter becoming a teacher, organic webshooters, the Loki favor, morlun (does he even exist now?), Ezekiel (does HE even exist now??) and lets not forget Peter completely owning the Kingpin. All of that is gone...oh well, I am enjoying BND, but damn man, there was some good stuff in JMS' run that we'll never see come into fruition.

So Peter not marrying MJ wiped out an old man and an ancient creature from existence?

 

[kainedamo]

So Peter not marrying MJ wiped out an old man and an ancient creature from existence?

Considering that the events of Morlun and Ezekiel are what eventually led to The Other, and considering that The Other now didn't happen at all, I think it's a very valid question.

The new continuity has many gaps and holes.

 

[Blader5489]

Considering that the events of Morlun and Ezekiel are what eventually led to The Other, and considering that The Other now didn't happen at all, I think it's a very valid question.

No, it isn't. You could argue that maybe The Other hasn't happened, because it occurred after the wedding, but both Morlun and Ezekiel existed long before the marriage ever happened. Changing a point in history would affect the events that follow, not those preceding it.

 

[kguillou]

What I actually meant in my post was did Spiderman ever meet Ezekiel? Or did Spidey ever battle Morlun? I'm not denying their existence just their encounters with Spiderman.

 

[kainedamo]

No, it isn't. You could argue that maybe The Other hasn't happened, because it occurred after the wedding, but both Morlun and Ezekiel existed long before the marriage ever happened. Changing a point in history would affect the events that follow, not those preceding it.

Um, what?? Woah, your Spidey knowledge isn't as great as perhaps Blader would like think, eh?

Morlun and Ezekiel first appeared only a few years ago at the start of JMS' run.

The marriage happened decades before JMS even came on Amazing Spider-Man.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Venom 1988]

Um, what?? Woah, your Spidey knowledge isn't as great as perhaps Blader would like think, eh?

Morlun and Ezekiel first appeared only a few years ago at the start of JMS' run.

The marriage happened decades before JMS even came on Amazing Spider-Man.

What the hell are you talking about?

Christ hes saying that the characters themselves existed way before the marriage chronologically, not when they first appeared in the comics.

 

[Blader5489]

What I actually meant in my post was did Spiderman ever meet Ezekiel? Or did Spidey ever battle Morlun? I'm not denying their existence just their encounters with Spiderman.

In that case, yes, they did happen. Steve Wacker has said that The Other still exists in continuity (though Pete has inexplicably lost his new powers), and apparently a villain from JMS' run will be reappearing in ASM towards the end of this year/beginning of next.

Christ hes saying that the characters themselves existed way before the marriage chronologically, not when they first appeared in the comics.

Thank you.