World Web shooter shop class - Part 4

[White_widow13]

We don't have an exact formula. We have guesstimates.

Mine is going to be:

98% hydrolyzed polyvinyl alcohol

(http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...nyl alcohol powder&sprefix=polyvinyl+,aps,434)

enough Water to make the solution thin

That is it for now. Later I will experiment with contact cement or cyanoacrylate glue that has A LOT of acetone in it. I might add a shear thinning component. It depends on how the heat affects the molten plastic.


how to synthesize it polyvinyl alcohol: http://www.iasj.net/iasj?func=fulltext&aId=4684

 

[White_widow13]

I want to start drawing some blueprint's/ schematics and post pictures of progress. I think that Realwebtech is gone. Plus, I want it to be public for us all to post these things. Should we make an instagram account using a common username/password, or a google doc? What are you all most likely to use?

 

[mastheon]

Hey, I'm new to posting but i have been following these threads for a while now. I haven't posted anything at all until now because i just wanted to catch up to this point. I think the progress everyone made on this project from start to now is amazing.

But i have a question on the shooters. Now I may have missed this somewhere in the forums if this was already addressed. Or I may have some sort of misconception on how the shooter works. So my question begins with another question. Have you ever sprayed silly string and seen its stream of string that is propelled out of the can? If you have then you'll understand my question. How is a solenoid valve releasing the liquid going to create a line of web that one will be able to easily grab hold of? Will the pressure being released just cause the entire line to continue to stay in motion and splat against a solid object?
Or is there someway (perhaps already explained but i missed) that the webshooter can release the web line when the button is pressed, but then stop the web line in motion when the button is released. Perhaps, the fluid is released from a tank of the webfluid when the button is held. Then it is in someway is released from the spinneret with only an initial burst of pressure. Therefore causing the beginning of the line to pull the rest of the solidified web out of the spinneret, as well as causing the line to stop in motion once the beginning hits an object. When the button is let go of then the valve on the tank shuts and the fluid stops being released into the tubing and to the spinneret. This also allows for the desired length of the line. This is a question/idea that I have had for a while now. If pressure is just continuously being released there's no way one could let go of the button and then grab the line.

The main question is just, How does this webshooter create a line of web the desired length without all of it splatting against an object or being unable to grab?

I'm sorry for the lengthy question/explanation but it would be much appreciated if someone could answer this.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Hey, I'm new to posting but i have been following these threads for a while now. I haven't posted anything at all until now because i just wanted to catch up to this point. I think the progress everyone made on this project from start to now is amazing.

But i have a question on the shooters. Now I may have missed this somewhere in the forums if this was already addressed. Or I may have some sort of misconception on how the shooter works. So my question begins with another question. Have you ever sprayed silly string and seen its stream of string that is propelled out of the can? If you have then you'll understand my question. How is a solenoid valve releasing the liquid going to create a line of web that one will be able to easily grab hold of? Will the pressure being released just cause the entire line to continue to stay in motion and splat against a solid object?
Or is there someway (perhaps already explained but i missed) that the webshooter can release the web line when the button is pressed, but then stop the web line in motion when the button is released. Perhaps, the fluid is released from a tank of the webfluid when the button is held. Then it is in someway is released from the spinneret with only an initial burst of pressure. Therefore causing the beginning of the line to pull the rest of the solidified web out of the spinneret, as well as causing the line to stop in motion once the beginning hits an object. When the button is let go of then the valve on the tank shuts and the fluid stops being released into the tubing and to the spinneret. This also allows for the desired length of the line. This is a question/idea that I have had for a while now. If pressure is just continuously being released there's no way one could let go of the button and then grab the line.

The main question is just, How does this webshooter create a line of web the desired length without all of it splatting against an object or being unable to grab?

I'm sorry for the lengthy question/explanation but it would be much appreciated if someone could answer this.

The actual web formation is created by the spinneret. In theory, the fluid would still be a liquid before it gets to the extrusion point, i.e. the spinneret or heating coil or whatever. The liquid inside would be connected to the solid part outside of the shooter, and still be connected, albeit weakly. You would then be able to break it off and grab it.

 

[mastheon]

Thanks for answering my question. But what would cause the solid part to stick to the liquid part weakly?

 

[White_widow13]

The main question is just, How does this webshooter create a line of web the desired length without all of it splatting against an object or being unable to grab?

Well Mastheon,

That is an excellent question. If I'm hearing you right, you are asking:

If the spinneret is so close to your hand, and it's firing so fast, how can you actually grab the thread since the end of the web closest to you will be passing through your fingers? By the time you close the valve, it will have already splatted against the wall. Is that right? respond if this isn't correct.

That is a very good point, and there are multiple answers based on how fast the web fires, how quickly the thread solidifies, and how you build the device. Here are our assumptions:

1.) The thread will be able to fly at least 20 feet. This means that you have to catch the fiber fast.

2.)The thread will be mostly solid the second it leaves the nozzle.

3.)you are putting the design on your wrist. I know that sounds obvious, but if you want to make like a web shooter pistol, we would need to make an addition to catch the thread as you are suggesting

There are two main design issues that I would consider:

First off, the trigger requires you to close part of your hand (the iconic two fingers), open the hand, and re-close your hand with the fiber now in it. That is if you do the "rock on" symbol with your hand.That requires exceptional reaction time if it's supposed to fire at least 20 feet. You can change that based on how you design the triggering system. I am going to put the trigger on the side of a ring that fits my pointer finger. That way, I can compress the trigger with my thumb and have four fingers already open and ready to close on the thread. You could just as easily just put the trigger for the shooter on the OPPOSITE hand. That way, you can focus all of your effort on just closing the hand, while the other hand actually triggers it.

Another idea is to move the shooter further down your arm. Instead of having the nozzle around the same place as a standard watch band, place it down closer to where your forearm meets your bicep. That way, you have a few inches extra of web line so that you can grab it with a little extra at the bottom.

Tell me if that answers your question. Now keep in mind that those two suggestions will work only if the assumptions are right. If the fluid isn't solid by the time it reaches your hand, then you can't catch it no matter what. The reason silly string works is because the solvent is in the propellant. When the propellant leaves the plastic string, the solvent takes a fair bit of the solvent with it. For Wadaltmon and I, we are hoping that the heat in the shooter can evaporate the solvent in sufficient time.

 

[mastheon]

Thank you white widow that did answer my question. And yeah i was thinking more like the traditional shooter around the wrist. Also do you have any links to diagrams of how your shooter works?

 

[White_widow13]

Yes and no.

Yes, for My old designs that have more problems than solutions.

No, for my new designs that have almost everything figured out.

I need to find a place to draw out my new designs. That's why I mentioned that I wanted to use either instagram or google docs. Which one would you look at more? Or would it be better to work on like a facebook page?

 

[mastheon]

I think that a google docs would be great. People can access them pretty easily from phone or computer. Also instagram isn't something too easy to access on a computer. So I would say google docs I would look at more.

 

[mastheon]

I just need some clarification on where to start on this project. I've gathered a lot of info from researching this. And a diagram would be great to see this visually. I don't really know where to start physically. I'm probably gonna try to create the web fluid first. What's your formula white widow?

 

[White_widow13]

We don't have an exact formula. We have guesstimates.

Mine is going to be:

98% hydrolyzed polyvinyl alcohol

(http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...nyl alcohol powder&sprefix=polyvinyl+,aps,434)

enough Water to make the solution thin

That is it for now. Later I will experiment with contact cement or cyanoacrylate glue that has A LOT of acetone in it. I might add a shear thinning component. It depends on how the heat affects the molten plastic.


how to synthesize it polyvinyl alcohol: http://www.iasj.net/iasj?func=fulltext&aId=4684

You can either use the powder from the Amazon link and add water and heat till it is the right consistency, or you can try to synthesize it with white glue, methanol, and sodium hydroxide. I recommend the first option.

 

[mastheon]

Are you the same white widow as white_widow?

 

[White_widow13]

Yup. I'm the same one who started this forum with theBatsam at the beginning.

 

[mastheon]

So what happened to your idea about making a composite with rubber, latex, a tackifier, and some sort of fiber for the web fluid?

 

[White_widow13]

There was no way to uniformly distribute the rubber and the polymer.

Latex and rubber would serve the same purpose. However, the fluid would be extremely weak in some areas but stronger in others.

As for the tackifier, It's going to make an already expensive formula more expensive.

The thing about Polyvinyl alcohol is that because it relies sooooooo heavily on hydrogen bonds, it is easier to bond other things to the polymer structure. It will be more important if we start getting into strength.

 

[mastheon]

In you formula does it need an adhesive?

 

[White_widow13]

yes, but we aren't there yet. We just need to make some fibers that can handle their own weight. Once we can do that, we can focus on adhesion and spinning more durable fibers.

 

[mastheon]

alright sounds tough to figure a solution lol

 

[White_widow13]

I feel like the mechanics of the shooter are almost as important as the formula itself. There are ideas, but we need a starting point. Once you and I hit Wadaltmon or The.Amazing status, we can modify existing prototypes. We need to build our prototypes first.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I feel like the mechanics of the shooter are almost as important as the formula itself. There are ideas, but we need a starting point. Once you and I hit Wadaltmon or The.Amazing status, we can modify existing prototypes. We need to build our prototypes first.

I'm kind of at the same stage. I've stopped using my old prototype from all my videos and am building a new one. Progress is slow, but steady, I guess.

 

[White_widow13]

oh. I guess we are all starting from scratch then. Nice. We can all be on the same page.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I'm actually currently building my first prototype of my new shooter, WDM 3.0. I'm going to upload a video detailing my previous designs and this current design tonight or tomorrow.

 

[White_widow13]

Way cool!

So, I just opened a google doc. It has nothing in it, but an old web shooter picture yet.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16OeF7dZQrPbuRFR1J2XliDh-VcbOPva8fkpl6aafgRs/edit

Please send me your gmail usernames so that I can add you to the collaborators list. Do it through PM though. I don't want any lurkers to have your email address.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I started building my new control board today. Hard to find parts now that Radio Shack is gone.

 

[White_widow13]

are you working on a double tap feature?