World Web shooter shop class - Part 4

[White_widow13]

Alright y'all. I'm back in north carolina. I'm going to meet with my partner about the web shooter prototype on saturday, and we should have a skeletal base made for the wrist unit by the end of it. I'll keep you all updated with what we are up to. Once we start the build, we have two months to accomplish it, and I need you to keep me accountable.

 

[the.Amazing]

111

 

[White_widow13]

Ok. That's a good specific goal. In silly string, I don't know how it creates such a good string of fluid, but here are some ideas:

1.) The tip of the atomizer is so thin that the resin must remain in a single stream.

2.) The pressure is relatively low. If it was any higher, it would become flecks.

3.)The resin is super sticky. That would explain how it adheres to surfaces despite having an additive that reduces it's adhesion.

4, which is from the how it works site): As the propellant evaporates from the foam, the outer edge dries out, leaving a thin, flexible skin. This skin holds the Silly String together and allows it to stick to surfaces.

It also mentions something on this website that might be beneficial:

-With too little resin, the strands would be too fragile to hold themselves together

-Too much surfactant would make too much foam, and you'd end up with a texture more like shaving foam or mousse

-Neither resin nor surfactant is Silly String's primary ingredient, though. The plastic resin is only 10 or 15 percent of the mix, and the surfactant is less than five percent

I know that you aren't working on making silly string. You said as much in your last video, but it seems to be a proportion game. You can apparently really screw with the nature of the resin just in how you prepare it.

 

[White_widow13]

Alright, so after doing a little bit of research on how to make timers, I finally was able to make one for my website. In order to keep myself accountable, I added a timer on my website for my first official extrusion style web shooter to be complete. The date is slated for a little less than two months from now. It should be complete on July 15th. Here is the timer portion of the website. This is where I will add pictures and videos, as well as a countdown timer to give myself the challenge:

http://whitewidowsshooter.weebly.com/progress.html

I'm currently working on the wrist unit and I am almost done with that. I'll post a picture sometime this week.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Alright, school is done, I'm back.

I've started working on my pressure vessel. I have a piston built but it is absolutely terrible. So, I am going to order one from Shapeways... I think I said that before. That all hinges on me getting a job for the summer...

However, I built the control board for the shooter that controls the solenoid, and connects to the trigger. I've also gotten the shell for the wrist unit.

 

[White_widow13]

Hey Wadaltmon! I'm glad to see you again. I didn't know that you were taking a Calculus III class.

It sounds like you are doing a good job. I can't wait to see how you do with the flask design.

Here's a new idea: I'm thinking of mixing a pump/pressure vessel system, but I'd need some help with the chip programming. You use a pressure vessel, but you replenish the vessel with fluid bags. It works like a soda machine. They have these weak plastic bags of soda syrup. A pump pumps the fluid into a pressure vessel. there are then tanks of CO2 and water that carbonate the soda. It's like this.

Anyway, I wonder if we can recruit more people. Do you remember the good ol' days when we had alot of synergy because there were like 6 people at a time?

 

[Wadaltmon]

WW, would you mind explaining a bit more about your idea? I don't really understand what the system is that you're trying to accomplish.

 

[White_widow13]

Oh the pump/pressure one?

So the greatest advantage that a pump can provide is that you can use any fluid container. You can use a camel pack, a canteen, a flask, or even a bottle or something that conforms to your body shape. The idea is to use a pressure vessel on the arm/forearm like usual, but have it refill with a pumping system. So you have like a backpack or a set of hip flasks with a pump that can provide just enough lift to push some extra fluid into the pressure vessel. The question I have is how to make sure the pressure doesn't enter back into where you are pumping the fluid.

In a soda machine, you have flimsy bags that store the fluid. It uses a vacuum pump to suck the fluid into a chamber where it is then pressurized by CO2. That's where I got the idea. Like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRHNt67xbMs

 

[Wadaltmon]

So you'd have to have a secondary pump to pull the bag fluid into the pressure vessel?

 

[White_widow13]

It would be the first and only pump, but yeah. I'm trying to figure out a way to do quick refills so that when my partner finishes his half of the project (the pressure vessel) we can reload it quickly. This will be especially difficult because we are most likely using a piston design.

 

[skywardmaster]

Hey I was thinking what if we start with baby steps. Instead of creating a fluid that becomes a sticky string we do both separably. We create a strong polymer that mixes with the adhesive fluid inside the base of the shooter. I'm sketching a design right now but just wanted to get this idea out there.

 

[White_widow13]

Hey I was thinking what if we start with baby steps. Instead of creating a fluid that becomes a sticky string we do both separably. We create a strong polymer that mixes with the adhesive fluid inside the base of the shooter. I'm sketching a design right now but just wanted to get this idea out there.

Hey skyward master. Sorry for the while wait for the answer. I've been a bit busy with the job search. That is a great idea! Actually, that's what wadaltmon is up to. He wants to create a two part adhesive mix which will really apply to your situation.

I agree with you. We do need baby steps. That's why most of my research is mostly about polymer extrusion. I'm working on the heating coil and pre-loading chamber so that it will have adequate time to heat up. What we still haven't mastered in our band of inventors is the process seen in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA0iv99VPvI (24:05-24:40)

I'd love to see some of your design ideas.

 

[bobcat89]

Nothing new :/

 

[bobcat89]

I will be making a webshooter prototype pretty soon just need a few more peices.

 

[Elxiah]

Hey..so its been a while...i think about a year...whats up?

 

[White_widow13]

Not much elixiah! good to hear from you!

I'm working on getting my spinneret done and running by july 15th.

There are a few folks working on it. Wadaltmon is still here with a genius new pressure vessel design. Also, there is a new guy on the scene (named the.amazing) who is very good and has already created a shooter. The only thing he needs is a new formula.

So what's new with you?

 

[Wadaltmon]

I got a job so I should be able to get money for my new piston stuff. I start on the 19th at the job, and I'll probably get the firs check 2 weeks after.

 

[White_widow13]

way fun! my partner hasn't really been invested in his half. I might have to jimmy-rig a primitive syringe to test the PVOH extrusion. I still should have my first test on july 15th?

 

[Elxiah]

Not much elixiah! good to hear from you!

I'm working on getting my spinneret done and running by july 15th.

There are a few folks working on it. Wadaltmon is still here with a genius new pressure vessel design. Also, there is a new guy on the scene (named the.amazing) who is very good and has already created a shooter. The only thing he needs is a new formula.

So what's new with you?

For the most part stayed away from the webshooter for most of the year, and last summer. Haven't had much freetime in a long while. Still don't have that much to be honest. I had finished my webshooter about a year and a half ago (Jesus Christ I almost can't believe its been that long), but I havent constructed most of it due to a lack of funds and time. Also, at the moment I also dont have a sufficient workspace. Though it should be perfectly safe, my shooter could have potentialy dangerous malfunctions during construction or testing, and there are children in my home. I don't have my own room, nor do I have a garage or basement to work in, so I would like to wait until I get my own dorm/apartment (2016 in college) before I do anything of the sort. Though I don't plan on doing much more development on my shooter or it's fluid, I still find it fascinating to watch you and various other posters in this forum work. I believe that all of you have the potential to become the greatest minds on the planet. You all truly represent the talent that shall rise up from this generation and pull us toward the heavens and take us to a new future through innovation. Thats how it always has been, and how it always shall be. Good luck to everyone on their endeavours.

 

[S.P.I.D.E.R]

I think that this has been covered before, but what happens if PVA glue is mixed with table salt and vinegar? Would I be right in thinking that this helps the formula solidify quicker? If so, wouldn't this mean that, a) the formula would solidify before it even leaves the cartridge, or b) the salt and/or vinegar would have to be added to the fluid as it leaves the shooter? Also(this one's a bit of an odd question), would golden syrup be an effective elastomer for the formula. I seem to remember another member saying that it was, bur I can't find the post any more.
Sorry for all the questions, but I've rediscovered the blueprints for my low-budget grapple-style shooter and was thinking of finally building the prototype; all I need now is to figure out a decent formula that I can create cheaply and safely using household materials.

 

[S.P.I.D.E.R]

Also, I found this basic formula on an earlier section of this thread (Part 3, I think), written by Wadaltmon, if memory serves correctly.
elastomer + tackifier + strong material + solvent + bonding agent = Webbing formula.
I was just wondering what sort of material would be used for the 'strong material' and the bonding agent? As far as I know, the elastomer is what makes the formula stretchy and not brittle, the tackifier makes it sticky, and the solvent is a liquid that is evaporated as the formula leaves the shooter.

 

[Elxiah]

So if anyone has looked at the chat recently, the user named "X" showed a really interesting video he found. I'll link it here, and continue writing under the assumption that you've watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtCBarLbHRM

Now I know that the idea of nylon was kicked around during this forum's early stages, but i dont remember anyone actually considering actually synthesizing it, rather than melting it. Just something that i thought might interest the rest of you.

 

[White_widow13]

To Elxiah- Thanks for the compliment. I'm thinking on how I can run an experiment by the 15th. If my partner can complete his half, it might be as simple as getting a backpack water gun, put in some formula, and strap the manual pump to the silicone reinforced spinneret. If he does complete his side though, we have a good design that we might implement using some of wadaltmon's ideas on pressure vessels. As for synthesyzing nylon, we did kick it aroun back in the days of the bat-sam. It was a good start, but we had to find a supplier for the experiment components. It is a good thought. I'll revisit it if my pvoh won't solidify.

To Spider:Wow, I like that you two are reviving old ideas and wanting to improve on them. The formula equation (part A+ part B+ Part C) Equals web, was meant to get us in the mood to learn chemistry. By watching how they synthesize, we can learn how to link their monomer chains together.You are right though. We have to fit the standards of strong, ductile, adhesive, and stretchy. (I've been toying with the idea of putting a light curing superglue in the formula and shooting where the fluid strand lands with a laser to make it stick to the wall in 2 ways.)

I'm glad we've got this revival going on.

 

[Elxiah]

To Elxiah- Thanks for the compliment. I'm thinking on how I can run an experiment by the 15th. If my partner can complete his half, it might be as simple as getting a backpack water gun, put in some formula, and strap the manual pump to the silicone reinforced spinneret. If he does complete his side though, we have a good design that we might implement using some of wadaltmon's ideas on pressure vessels. As for synthesyzing nylon, we did kick it aroun back in the days of the bat-sam. It was a good start, but we had to find a supplier for the experiment components. It is a good thought. I'll revisit it if my pvoh won't solidify.

I'm glad we've got this revival going on.

Mmhmm, I know what you mean! Its a good feeling to finally be back (though I was mostly involved while you were gone WW, so its a shame that I didnt get to work with you during my "primetime"). Regardless! I also have a little "secret project" of sorts that I've been working on that I think everyone here might be happy to see! I mentioned it breifly before, but most probably forgot about it. But alas, I wish to say no more of it until it is finished!

 

[White_widow13]

I'm glad you are back elxiah! Let me know if you need any help.

So I have all but finished my spinneret portion. I just need to hook up the nichrome to the 6v battery pack and duct tape the silicone tubing to the polymorph base. It's not as pretty as I want it to be, but it will have to work for now. This design is meant to be customizable, as I want to add a longer fluid storage chamber than is there in the current prototype. (I'd prefer it to be two feet long winding down my arm vs two inches on the wrist.)

As for what you'll see in these pictures,

The white plastic is a polymorph plastic shell that holds a 6v battery case with a switch(black) and the spinneret unit (brass and black). It is insulated from burning the arm by two silicone tubes that wrap around it (white) and two high temp silicone pads meant for long term heat resistance (able to withstand much more heat than the nichrome will put out.) If the polymorph gets too hot, it will change color, from white to clear, indicating that the heat is too great and that I will need to better insulate the spinneret unit. The black band is a leather watch band measured at 3" long with three straps to support the unit.

Now here is the kicker. As I've said previously, I want to do an extrusion test by the 15th of July. My partner is unable to build his portion of the shooter (the PVC syringe pressure vessel). Because I am strapped for cash, but want to proceed as planned, I've purchased one of those kid syringe squirt guns for 96 cents . I will perform the extrusion test manually with the PVOH. If it produces a solid stand, I will work on making the pvc pressure vessel, but if not, I will continue to tweak the spinneret. If I feel that it is clogging, I'll work on the nozzle; if it's liquid, I'll work on a longer heating chamber.

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