World Webbing formula

[Iron_spider]

I found a site that explains how the duct tape adhesive is prepared.

http://www.gale-edit.com/products/volumes/duct_tape.htm

Scroll down to "The Manufacturing Process".

 

[White_widow]

I found a site that explains how the duct tape adhesive is prepared.

http://www.gale-edit.com/products/volumes/duct_tape.htm

Scroll down to "The Manufacturing Process".

I like it. I wish I knew the exact molecular formula, but that it exactly what we need, and it gave me additional insight. Thank you!

 

[White_widow]

I'm officially going to make rubber and cellulose my official formula path. I found out that wood is so strong because it is a fiber reinforced polymer. Bamboo is an example of why cellulose is what we need. It's mostly cellulose and somewhat lignin. The cellulose provides the strength and the lignin provides flexibility. You can make it from grass which means that it's permanently renewable as long as you can find a reagent to turn it into a gel. If it can get equally dispersed then when it is compressed it will harden. The glue could be dispersed in the cellulose. If there is a primer, it could denature in water.

If compression could cause a cellulose gel to harden and we could find a glue like duct tape adhesive, we would be finished.

 

[Iron_spider]

I found some more info on the duct tape adhesive. It is made up of natural rubber, resin (powder), and calcium carbonate that are all heated until they melt and then are mixed together.

Here's the site I found it on:
http://wanttoknowit.com/how-is-duct-tape-made/

Watch the first part of the video too. Warning, the guy speaking is... interesting.

edit: Another video describing the production of duct tape. Watch from about :20 to 1:20. It describes and shows the adhesive making process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVpNteozrO0

 

[White_widow]

I found some more info on the duct tape adhesive. It is made up of natural rubber, resin (powder), and calcium carbonate that are all heated until they melt and then are mixed together.

Here's the site I found it on:
http://wanttoknowit.com/how-is-duct-tape-made/

Watch the first part of the video too. Warning, the guy speaking is... interesting.

edit: Another video describing the production of duct tape. Watch from about :20 to 1:20. It describes and shows the adhesive making process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVpNteozrO0

Thanks! ^^

 

[Iron_spider]

No problem! I can't seem to find the ratio the components are mixed in though. Maybe we should experiment with that, if we can't get the exact adhesive used in the tape.

 

[White_widow]

that resin is less than 40%. I know that much.

 

[Iron_spider]

Something that may help us figure out the rationing: http://www.expresspolymlett.com/articles/EPL-0000615_article.pdf

It's not exactly duct tape, but I think it's close enough that we may be able to base the measurements of each part off of it.

 

[megajs]

ok so for the spinerette to do what white_widow posted im drawing something up since its a little difficult to explain (bare with me as im not the best when it comes to sketches)
[edit] ok i sketched it out. please note some its not entirely finished but its the general idea

 

[White_widow]

That works if you want to make a rope. It won't make a net, but a rope it'll do it.

As for you Iron, I like that a lot. We have access to rubber, we have access to cellulose. Now we need a reagent and a tackifying resin. I think that the tackifier will be PVOH or a hydrocarbon resin. Those two ingredients, we are missing. Otherwise, we have our formula. (In a non- nanocellulose way).

 

[megajs]

That works if you want to make a rope. It won't make a net, but a rope it'll do it.

As for you Iron, I like that a lot. We have access to rubber, we have access to cellulose. Now we need a reagent and a tackifying resin. I think that the tackifier will be PVOH or a hydrocarbon resin. Those two ingredients, we are missing. Otherwise, we have our formula. (In a non- nanocellulose way).

For a reagent it depends what the state of the previous components are in

 

[White_widow]

Exactly..., and I know which state it has to be in. It's just a matter of finding a way to liquify it.

 

[megajs]

Exactly..., and I know which state it has to be in. It's just a matter of finding a way to liquify it.

Is the reagent for liquifying the compound or solidifying it?

 

[Iron_spider]

That works if you want to make a rope. It won't make a net, but a rope it'll do it.

As for you Iron, I like that a lot. We have access to rubber, we have access to cellulose. Now we need a reagent and a tackifying resin. I think that the tackifier will be PVOH or a hydrocarbon resin. Those two ingredients, we are missing. Otherwise, we have our formula. (In a non- nanocellulose way).

My guess would be a petroleum based hydrocarbon resin. That guy in the video from the link I posted said the resin was "oily" or something like that.

 

[White_widow]

Is the reagent for liquifying the compound or solidifying it?

Liquification. It seems however that all cellulose based reagents are too harmful for use.

 

[White_widow]

Well, without lab equipment, it seems that using cellulose as the base plastic is sunk, however, there is still hope that we can make styrene work with the rubber, resin, and a STL additive. Now it's a matter of extruding the polymer correctly, and finding the tackifier. I think our best option is... yes. Our best bet for a resin tackifier would have to be spray adhesive. This is because it has solvents already in it to keep it in liquid form making it very easy to mix into the the elastyrene. Allowing the solvent to dry out would be nice, but maybe not an option that we have due to pressurization. However, by adding our STL to the mix we can leave a little less acetone per weight. Alright. This is really starting to come together.

 

[Iron_spider]

What does STL stand for?

 

[White_widow]

Shear thinning liquid additive (So technically STLA). It's a material that will make any gel flow like a liquid when shear pressure is applied. It also acts as a binder to different materials.

 

[megajs]

just a question, what lab equipment would be needed if we wanted to use cellulose?

 

[White_widow]

Milk homogenizer that can hit 80°C at 8,000 psi. Well that and pineapple stems, wood pulp, or bamboo.

 

[megajs]

Milk homogenizer that can hit 80°C at 8,000 psi. Well that and pineapple stems, wood pulp, or bamboo.

At the same time?! you would have to have an industrial sized compressor. Are you sure we would need pure cellulose?

 

[White_widow]

need? No. I simply want it for the formula. It is the most pure substance that follows the properties of the web fluid.

Edit: I finally found Cellulose Acetate. It's not exactly cheap, but I can buy lots of it. I already did a test to see if it dissolved. It did so slowly but it worked. I'm going back to the place and asking them about other fibers.

edit 2: Styrofoam isn't extruded, it is expanded. I'm not sure if our method would improve it's properties. However, cellulose acetate is easy to extrude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA0iv99VPvI 24:00- 24:37

 

[hobbitbox]

Hey all, I was doing some research into spider silk and how the webs are created. Whether or not it's very useful I don't know, but you may find it interesting.

Spiders produce to substances, Spidroin I and II that mix into a silk dope(a sort of gel-like substance). This is then extruded through a very thin 'tunnel' (this applies shearing forces) lined with various cells that add more properties. Right before the web-line is pulled out some of the cells lining the walls exchange ions and remove moisture from the web.

It was on wikipedia, so I don't know how reliable it is, but here's the link if anyone's interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_silk

Hope it helps. (may give ideas that could be incorporated into the shooters)

 

[Iron_spider]

So would cellulose acetate work for us, instead of just cellulose?

 

[White_widow]

I believe so. It'll just be weaker.