World Webbing formula

[megajs]

about how weaker would the formula be and will the braiding style spinerette help increase the overall strength for it?

 

[White_widow]

The Cellulose acetate is anywhere from 14-115 MPa . It's average is about the same as Styrofoam, but it's not as brittle.

Styrofoam is 55MPa. It's brittle, but it has the properties we need except for flexibility.

How it bonds to rubber is up to debate.

 

[megajs]

bonding rubber to which one, the Styrofoam or the cellulose?

 

[White_widow]

The beautiful thing about cellulose acetate vs styrofoam other than brittleness is chemical structure. There are a lot of easy chemical bonds that can be made to cross-link.

But the formula is going to be rather easy. It's maybe not going to be super strong, but it'll do pretty well.

The formula is this:

-strong solute plastic
-pressure sensitive adhesive
-STLA
-solvent

The plastic will provide the tensile strength. The pressure sensitive adhesive will either make it stretchy or not, but it will make it splatter and tacky. The STLA will thicken the PSA and the plastic, as well as make it behave like a liquid. The solvent will keep it a liquid for just a bit. Ideally it's going to be hexane, but acetone is good too.

 

[megajs]

The beautiful thing about cellulose acetate vs styrofoam other than brittleness is chemical structure. There are a lot of easy chemical bonds that can be made to cross-link.

But the formula is going to be rather easy. It's maybe not going to be super strong, but it'll do pretty well.

The formula is this:

-strong solute plastic
-pressure sensitive adhesive
-STLA
-solvent

The plastic will provide the tensile strength. The pressure sensitive adhesive will either make it stretchy or not, but it will make it splatter and tacky. The STLA will thicken the PSA and the plastic, as well as make it behave like a liquid. The solvent will keep it a liquid for just a bit. Ideally it's going to be hexane, but acetone is good too.

(correct me if im wrong)so my understanding of this is basicly to find a plastic like polystyrene (in a more powdery state i assume) add a pressure sensitive adhesive (a tackifier of sort probably) then the STLA to strengthen the adhesive and plastic then use the solvent to change it to a liquid state for storage.

now my question is how will this reform into webs once shot?
because you cant really have a reagent to do that as its passing through the shooter unless activated from being exposed to the air or other material and that may conflict with the mixture if i am correct.

 

[White_widow]

1.) a plastic like polystyrene (in a more powdery state i assume) add a pressure sensitive adhesive (a tackifier of sort probably) then the STLA to strengthen the adhesive and plastic then use the solvent to change it to a liquid state for storage.

2.)now my question is how will this reform into webs once shot?
because

3.)you cant really have a reagent to do that as its passing through the shooter unless activated from being exposed to the air or other material and that may conflict with the mixture.

1.) The plastic does not have to be in powdered form. It simply needs to dissolve without degradation. A pressure sensitive adhesive is actually a blend of polyisoprene and a resin. The STLA is a binder, but it does nothing to tensile strenth. The STLA will make it so that while the mixture is under pressure, the fluid will have a low viscosity. This is only while it is in a gelatinous stage. It will just be a regular solid once the acetone evaporates.

2.) That depends fully on your definition of webs. This method will produce fibers. In my design, none of them will be wrapped because that wouldn't be making the most of the adhesive. it won't look like a spider web, but it will look like many fibers being shot out at a quick rate.

3.) The reagent is used to create the spinning solution. It's not going to be in the final formula. If we use the Cellulose acetate, it will have already had the re-agent in it, and now it just needs a solvent. As for the polystyrene, we don't have to worry, because we buy it in plate/cup form. The final formula is going to be a thick viscous gel. When the thing is being fired, it will lose viscosity because of the added STLA. It will then flow through the spinneret to create fibers, and the acetone will evaporate.


all in all, the reagent is only thought about in trying to convert cellulose into a form we can use. Since we don't have a solvent, it's probably better to just be the pre-made stuff.



Now for all the people who have followed this thread for long enough, I tend to point to two universes in the case of webbing. Amazing and ultimate. I'm starting to think that each universe had different webbing. Amazing wouldn't have had lab equipment, other than his own basic chemistry set. he could produce, about what we can, only he had access to more chemicals. Ultimate had access to all of his Dad's Lab stuff. That means that he could have had more advanced equipment, and subsequently, a better formula.

Also, while I don't really want to stay confined to a box, check this out:

Look, he created the plastic component first. He didn't use anything special either. He had a bottle and a hand pump. After creating the plastic component, he added a strong contact adhesive.

In an interview, Stan Lee told the audience that when he and Steve create Spidey, they gave him web shooters, because they didn't think that anyone would believe that they came from his wrists. he also said that he didn't anticipate him using so much fluid. When he pictured the character, he imagined him using his smarts to beat his opponents. The webbing would be an ace up the sleeve. As the character was re-imagined, spider-man used more webbing. In fact, he started using so much webbing that the writers had no choice but to make the shooters organic.

Stan then proceeded to tell the audience that he had never imagined that spidey would use so much fluid. He was surprised when he saw how far it could go.

What we need to do is go back to the basics. That's why I'm focusing on styrofoam instead of polyethylene or nylon. I can look into theoretical stuff, because I'm going to be a chemistry major. If you guys want to see web shooters in your lifetime, you're going to have to work with what you have. In your case, basic plastics, adhesives, and materials. You can make the web shooters from parts found at home depot. I know you want the bracelets, but work with what you have, and do your research.

 

[Ryleyw]

Hey everyone I'm back been working on lots of stuff i have my shooter done and my suit done, just gotta get the formula done.

 

[Iron_spider]

I think I found something that may help us a great deal. Ok, so just cellulose may not be so easy after all. But what about methyl cellulose?

- It's water-soluble, so it'd wash away in the rain. Plus water is a really easy/cheap solvent.
- It has a pretty good tensile strength.
- For those of you using heat in your shooters, methyl cellulose exhibits thermal gelation. This means that at raised temperatures methyl cellulose will become insoluble and start to gel. This process is reversible as well, so once it cools down, it becomes soluble again.
- It's an emulsifier, which means it could help keep all the different mixed liquids together.
- It's a lubricant, so it could help prevent clogging of the shooter.
- It's a mild glue.
- It's fairly easy to get. Not too expensive either.

I think methyl cellulose could be the answer.

 

[White_widow]

I like that. I don't see anything that indicates tensile strength, but other than that, I like your idea.

 

[Iron_spider]

http://www.dow.com/dowwolff/en/pdf/Technical_METHOCEL_.pdf

Check out the table on page seven. There are two types of methyl cellulose there. One is around 62 MPa and the other is around 69 MPa.

 

[White_widow]

hey, that's not bad at all. this might just work!

 

[spidey44]

If you shoot a water soluble web at something already wet it wouldn't bond, would it.

 

[White_widow]

It doesn't really matter with methyl cellulose. It only dissolves in COLD water.

 

[Iron_spider]

Plus methyl cellulose is hard to directly dissolve into cold water. The water should be heated first then the MC is put in and evenly dispersed. Then the whole solution is cooled.

But it'd still wash away with a downpour of rain.

 

[White_widow]

Plus methyl cellulose is hard to directly dissolve into cold water. The water should be heated first then the MC is put in and evenly dispersed. Then the whole solution is cooled.

But it'd still wash away with a downpour of rain.

I like it, except, I really want it to harden quickly. If it will dissolve in water, no matter the temperature, I'm not a fan. however, I like it if being cold will liquify it. If it can stay strong in warmth, then I'm cool with it.

 

[Iron_spider]

It's not soluble in hot water. All I was trying to say is pouring MC directly into cold water will result in a bunch of blobs of gooey powder floating around in the water. To effectively dissolve in water, the water needs to be heated first. When the MC is poured in, it doesn't dissolve, but it has a chance to be evenly dispersed (while you are stirring) in the water without forming the blobs. When the water is cooled, the MC dissolves.

 

[White_widow]

yeah, I read that two. It was the, "washed away in the rain" thing that had me concerned.

 

[MarvelFan1]

Look, he created the plastic component first. He didn't use anything special either. He had a bottle and a hand pump. After creating the plastic component, he added a strong contact adhesive.

What we need to do is go back to the basics. That's why I'm focusing on styrofoam instead of polyethylene or nylon. I can look into theoretical stuff, because I'm going to be a chemistry major. If you guys want to see web shooters in your lifetime, you're going to have to work with what you have. In your case, basic plastics, adhesives, and materials. You can make the web shooters from parts found at home depot. I know you want the bracelets, but work with what you have, and do your research.[/QUOTE]
if it uses a hand pump, wouldnt it be similiar to this:
http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Spider-Man-Water-Squirter-Kellogg-s-Cereal-MiP-Collectible/16618822

 

[MarvelFan1]

Look, he created the plastic component first. He didn't use anything special either. He had a bottle and a hand pump. After creating the plastic component, he added a strong contact adhesive.

if it uses a hand pump, wouldnt it be similiar to this:
http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Spider-Man-Water-Squirter-Kellogg-s-Cereal-MiP-Collectible/16618822

 

[MarvelFan1]

double post, sorry!

 

[Iron_spider]

yeah, I read that two. It was the, "washed away in the rain" thing that had me concerned.

What exactly is your concern?

Hmm, I guess it depends on what you mean by cold water. MC dissolves at room temperature. Above around 100 degrees Fahrenheit, it becomes insoluble.

 

[spidey44]

Yesterday I was wondering if a hand pump could shoot the webbing.

 

[White_widow]

What exactly is your concern?

Hmm, I guess it depends on what you mean by cold water. MC dissolves at room temperature. Above around 100 degrees Fahrenheit, it becomes insoluble.

Well, It's just we might have to make the water evaporate or heat up depending on when the material dissolves.

Also, we would have to use a hand pump or hexane gas with something like that because co2 would freeze the mixture and dissolve it.

I really like that material though. If we can find it for cheap, it would be pretty awesome.

 

[Iron_spider]

Right, I didn't really think about the freezing thing. My design uses air compressors to pressurize a tank.

If too much water is a problem, MC can be dissolved in some polar organic solvents, and mixtures of those organic solvents and a little bit of water. Solvents include alcohols (methanol and ethanol) which could mean faster evaporation rates for us.

 

[White_widow]

GOOD! Acetone is an organic solvent. Hey, if it's as easy to extrude MC as it is CA then it will be good. I'm still not sure about the price though, but I like it.