Welcome to Earth One!

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I'm curious to see what happens when he's off Batman's comics. His ideas for the X-Men were dropped literally immediately after he stopped writing their comics. Then again, I think he's been making more money for DC with his Batman run than he did for Marvel with his X-Men run, so that'll probably ensure at least a little bit more longevity to his ideas.

I think some things may stick around, looks like Damian may stick (at least for awhile), but some of the other stuff, I see it going pretty quickly. The whole idea of an incorporated Bat-force, for example; I just don't see DC sticking with that idea, at least not in the core Batman stories. I could see them altering some of this stuff about him apparently creating himself by time traveling (or whatever), too.

I don't think they'll do quite what they did with X-Men with Batman, but over time, I kind of see a lot of that stuff eroding quite a bit.

 

[Drz]

Yeah New X-Men wasn't the only hot selling X-Men title, but Morrison's Batman titles are constantly top 5 (or top 10 if alot of events are happening or alot of #1s are being released)

Dick is made now into the guardian of Gotham, while Bruce is all global like with 1 title focusing on Gotham+Bruce. Grant Morrison PERSONALLY wished Tomasi to continue his Batman and Robin run. Perhaps he will also wish Tomasi to carry the flame once he's done with Inc?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Sells don't guarantee that kind of stuff. DC will take the money with a smile, but it's never a guarantee that certain changes won't shift back. New X-Men may not have been the only X-book selling, but it was always the X-book that sold above all from what I can remember. And, really, even if it was the only one, do you think most of the rectons wouldn't have happened anyway? I seriously doubt it. A lot of them weren't an issue of sales, but one of status quo and some politics (The Xorn recton mostly). Maybe not everything will be yanked out at once, but don't expect Morrison's status quo altercations to all stick permanently. I know I'll be surprised if they do.

Anyway, that's all off this topic. Earth One...how about it?

 

[Drz]

Well regarding Earth One and this thread. God forgive if Superman Earth One sucks and all the fans will lash out cry how Johns' Batman comic will suck too simply because John writes the popular-and-selling *****ebag Batman.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sells don't guarantee that kind of stuff. DC will take the money with a smile, but it's never a guarantee that certain changes won't shift back. New X-Men may not have been the only X-book selling, but it was always the X-book that sold above all from what I can remember. And, really, even if it was the only one, do you think most of the rectons wouldn't have happened anyway? I seriously doubt it. A lot of them weren't an issue of sales, but one of status quo and some politics (The Xorn recton mostly). Maybe not everything will be yanked out at once, but don't expect Morrison's status quo altercations to all stick permanently. I know I'll be surprised if they do.

Anyway, that's all off this topic. Earth One...how about it?

Morrison's high-minded concepts are probably just as much to blame as sales. Writers and editors who come along after big changes that don't necessarily click with them tend to just discard the changes and do their own thing. The most blatant example (not Morrison-related, though) that I can think of is when Joe Kelly changed the Martian Manhunter's weakness to fire into a weakness to fire of some kind of emotional significance. Regular fire wouldn't do much to him, but fire set by an arsonist or a fire that was roasting some poor kid alive would put him on his knees. It was a fairly complicated change to what was a simple weakness, so I think literally no one other than Kelly himself even acknowledged that the change existed. J'onn's weakness to all fire was back in no time.

 

[Mystirious]

Nah he's already writing that stuff. Get Paul Cornell there god damnit!

I'm curious about how Morrison would tackle the GL mythos. I'm not a huge fan of what he's done with Batman, but he certainly does have very unique and interesting thoughts on the big icons.

That would be

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, I'm curious to see what happens when he's off Batman's comics. His ideas for the X-Men were dropped literally immediately after he stopped writing their comics. Then again, I think he's been making more money for DC with his Batman run than he did for Marvel with his X-Men run, so that'll probably ensure at least a little bit more longevity to his ideas.

That's because Marvel doesn't have the mentality to handle Morrisonian concepts.

DC is a lot more willing to experiment with their comic book properties than Marvel is. Hence why we have Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns, Mark Waid's Kingdom Come, Alan Moore's Watchmen, Swamp Thing, and The Killing Joke, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and Grant Morrison's....well anything by Grant Morrison. And when somehting different is accepted, DC embraces it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's because Marvel doesn't have the mentality to handle Morrisonian concepts.

DC is a lot more willing to experiment with their comic book properties than Marvel is. Hence why we have Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns, Mark Waid's Kingdom Come, Alan Moore's Watchmen, Swamp Thing, and The Killing Joke, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and Grant Morrison's....well anything by Grant Morrison. And when somehting different is accepted, DC embraces it.

Yes, that is certainly why we have those things, which are almost all out of continuity.

 

[kguillou]

At least Marvel kept Cyclops and Emma's relationship intact after Morrison left which, let's face it, was probably one of the best things to happen to the X-men in a long long time.

But i wouldnt say marvel isn't willing to experiment with their characters. Ever since Joe Quesada became EIC, his whole editorial policy seems to be "Eh sure why not? Let's see what happens." He been letting the writers do whatever they want with the characters they write which has led to some very bold, experimental stories (unmasking DD, bringing Bucky back, scarlet witch going bats***, Frankencastle etc etc.)

 

[The Question]

At least Marvel kept Cyclops and Emma's relationship intact after Morrison left which, let's face it, was probably one of the best things to happen to the X-men in a long long time.

That was probably the least interesting thing to come of Morrison's run.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yes, that is certainly why we have those things, which are almost all out of continuity.

Even the things that aren't in continuity like the Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come, DC uses to influence their in continuity comics. And of course DC loves to ****e out Watchmen.

 

[hippie_hunter]

At least Marvel kept Cyclops and Emma's relationship intact after Morrison left which, let's face it, was probably one of the best things to happen to the X-men in a long long time.

But i wouldnt say marvel isn't willing to experiment with their characters. Ever since Joe Quesada became EIC, his whole editorial policy seems to be "Eh sure why not? Let's see what happens." He been letting the writers do whatever they want with the characters they write which has led to some very bold, experimental stories (unmasking DD, bringing Bucky back, scarlet witch going bats***, Frankencastle etc etc.)

Except Brubaker remasked Daredevil to a certain extent, Franken-Castle is being undone after an arc, Bucky's death has been prophesied, and they're bringing back Wanda. And don't forget the utter stagnation of Spider-Man's character.

While DC certainly goes back in regards to its mainstream comics, I don't ever see Marvel producing Vertigo, or the Dark Knight Returns, etc.

 

[lixdexia]

yes, they take what they feel works and put it in continuity, but the point i think corp was trying to make is that they do it out of continuity first on purpose because they aren't so trusting and want to be able to distance it from the main line if need be.

 

[hippie_hunter]

yes, they take what they feel works and put it in continuity, but the point i think corp was trying to make is that they do it out of continuity first on purpose because they aren't so trusting and want to be able to distance it from the main line if need be.

But stories like Kingdom Come and the Dark Knight Returns would never work in mainstream continuity to begin with. They were designed with older versions of the characters in mind.

I'm not saying that DC is trusting, I'm just saying that they have completely different mentalities.

Overall Marvel has kept the concepts of their characters and universe the same, instead focusing more on who the characters really are deep down inside.

DC on the other hand seems more focused on the ideas of the stories. It's why writers like Grant Morrison who comes up with ideas like franchising Batman and Paul Cornell who comes up with Robo-Lois, thrive at DC. It's why we see more grandiose stories from DC like Kingdom Come, the Fourth World Saga, All-Star Superman, the Justice League, etc. as opposed to more down to Earth stories from Marvel. It's why the Justice League looks cooler while the Avengers are the superior team.

It's because of these mentalities why I don't think that writers like Grant Morrison don't go far at Marvel yet are a big deal at DC and why Ed Brubaker didn't go far at DC and yet is a big deal at Marvel.

 

[fifthfiend]

Morrison's high-minded concepts are probably just as much to blame as sales. Writers and editors who come along after big changes that don't necessarily click with them tend to just discard the changes and do their own thing. The most blatant example (not Morrison-related, though) that I can think of is when Joe Kelly changed the Martian Manhunter's weakness to fire into a weakness to fire of some kind of emotional significance. Regular fire wouldn't do much to him, but fire set by an arsonist or a fire that was roasting some poor kid alive would put him on his knees. It was a fairly complicated change to what was a simple weakness, so I think literally no one other than Kelly himself even acknowledged that the change existed. J'onn's weakness to all fire was back in no time.

TBH that whole bit was kind of ackward, he was pretty overtly trying to have had Marty have gotten over the fire weakness while, at the same time, keeping the fire weakness.

It's not something I stress about cause it was a kind of minor thing at the end of one of the greatest arcs in one of the greatest runs of comics ever, but I don't fault subsequent writers too much for not adhering to it too closely.

Anyway some of Morrison's ideas were kind of nutty and deservedly jettisoned but stuff like X-Corporation, Mutant Town, treating the X-institute like a real school for the first time in like... ever, that was the kind of **** that had a real foundation for future stories and could've, and should've remained interesting for years to come.

 

[kguillou]

That was probably the least interesting thing to come of Morrison's run.

Well I mean, it was that whole relationship that finally matured Cyclops and turned him into the leader he was destined to be. Imo, it was a fairly significant part of Morrison's run.

Originally posted by Hippie_Hunter

Except Brubaker remasked Daredevil to a certain extent, Franken-Castle is being undone after an arc, Bucky's death has been prophesied, and they're bringing back Wanda. And don't forget the utter stagnation of Spider-Man's character.

While DC certainly goes back in regards to its mainstream comics, I don't ever see Marvel producing Vertigo, or the Dark Knight Returns, etc.

Thats true. I think both companies to an extent have been experimenting and seeing what works and doesnt work and keeping the good stuff. Although, whatever happened to that Kryptonian kid that Superma adopted? Those were some great stories but i guess DC wasn't ready for their icon to be a father.

 

[The Question]

Well I mean, it was that whole relationship that finally matured Cyclops and turned him into the leader he was destined to be. Imo, it was a fairly significant part of Morrison's run.

So cheating on your wife and then making out with the same woman on your wife's grave after she dies is a sign of maturity?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Thats true. I think both companies to an extent have been experimenting and seeing what works and doesnt work and keeping the good stuff. Although, whatever happened to that Kryptonian kid that Superma adopted? Those were some great stories but i guess DC wasn't ready for their icon to be a father.

Didn't he get put in the Phantom Zone then aged up to become apart of Nightwing/Flamebird right?

 

[kguillou]

Originally posted by The Question
So cheating on your wife and then making out with the same woman on your wife's grave after she dies is a sign of maturity?

He didnt really cheat on her, it was some complicated mental flirtation stuff, but regardless, yes i think Scott needed to get away from Jean in order to finally grow and become his own man, which is what Morrison started and Whedon perfected.

 

[Kitsune]

So cheating on your wife and then making out with the same woman on your wife's grave after she dies is a sign of maturity?

If you phrase it as "Getting over the death of a love one, and moving on to another relationship." It is. Oh and just for the record I am Kitsune and I DON'T support this statement. I'm just throwing it out there as devils advocate.
(Man I'll be glad when election season is over)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He didnt really cheat on her, it was some complicated mental flirtation stuff, but regardless, yes i think Scott needed to get away from Jean in order to finally grow and become his own man, which is what Morrison started and Whedon perfected.

Dude, he was mentally f***ing Emma over a psychic link. I would think that'd count as cheating if your wife is a telepath.

 

[Drz]

Dude, he was mentally f***ing Emma over a psychic link. I would think that'd count as cheating if your wife is a telepath.

Now Now son you stay on topic or i'll infraction you!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, right, sorry. So, Earth One still doesn't look interesting to me at all. And, uh... well, yeah, I guess that's it.

 

[Mystirious]

Oh, right, sorry. So, Earth One still doesn't look interesting to me at all. And, uh... well, yeah, I guess that's it.

The stories do not sound interesting to me

The art will be pretty but I do not think I will buy a book just for its art

 

[kguillou]

I think Superman will be great but the batman one...eh i dunno. Geoff Johns and Batman sound like oximorons to me. I would rather they got someone like Greg Rucka to do Bats but we'll see.