What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

[matt47]

Do kryptonians age the same as humans?

 

[sf2]

Right, and your storyline about Zod might work out well too.. right now, there are some inconsistencies.. like how come faora/zod and gang didn't age 33 years? They got out of the phantom zone the moment it exploded... so, about 33 years have passed before they arrived on Earth..

33 years on the earth doesn't mean 33 years on the outer space.

 

[Mjölnir]

I saw it differently though... To me, he was only 'threatening to kill everyone' to force Supe's hands into killing him or see everyone dies... The are genetically engineered beings - basically doing what they are programmed to do... doing something else like 'vengeance' would be outside their programming. Clark on the other hand had a 'choice' as his father said, because he was naturally born..

Maybe someone can ask goyer what his intention was at the end...

It's open to interpretation so it's fine that we see it differently. To me there's nothing different from his programming to kill because he is a soldier and vengeance is in line with being for the people. It's just not very constructive since they are gone.

Faora's comment about lacking a sense of morality has me perplexed though. Zod shows several times that he (and by extension the rest) acts according to what's best for his people, which is definitely his moral views. They don't lack morals at all, theirs are just different from Superman's.

33 years on the earth doesn't mean 33 years on the outer space.

They were living in the same conditions as on Krypton and being in space doesn't affect your aging (although it will wither your muscles if you don't have proper gravity). A significant plot point is made on that their ship has the gravity and atmosphere from there. There's no indication that Kryptonians live far longer than humans and that Superman's powers include him aging faster.

And Zod did age. Not that much but they tried to show it with the beard and the grey streaks. I don't remember noticing anything like that with Faora though.

 

[BH/HHH]

Previous incarnations (the ones I've experienced) have had him "perfect" due to how he was raised.

In this version he's not raised like that though. His father instead thinks it's better that people die than to risk exposing Clark. Clark apparently disagrees already as a child and risks everything to save those kids. Given some later actions the character actually seems to devolve from his sense of good to some degree, although he's of course still clearly a good person.

But previous incarnations had that cause of the world they were set in. They were always nicey nice where people from other planets are accepted from the word go. This film is set in a real world type scenario where paranoia exists. Pa Kent doesn't think its better if other people die and remember he answers the question with a maybe not a yes you should have. This is bigger than us, this is an extra terrestrial being who can do things no one else can. As his father said it would change the world.

Also remember Superman is a fictional character and he's open to intepretation. He's been reinvented over and over again and this is a modern reinvention of a character like that existing in todays world.

 

[matt47]

Come on people, did you really want to see a grey haired faora with wrinkles?

 

[PacificBoy]

In what way did the Kents shape Clark's character in this movie though? Because Clark seemed to be a naturally good person from the get-go; he openly saves the school bus and kids despite Pa Kent telling him to keep a low profile, and continues to do save lives (in spectacular fashion no less) after Pa Kent died in order to preserve Clark's identity.

 

[Mjölnir]

But previous incarnations had that cause of the world they were set in. They were always nicey nice where people from other planets are accepted from the word go. This film is set in a real world type scenario where paranoia exists. Pa Kent doesn't think its better if other people die and remember he answers the question with a maybe not a yes you should have. This is bigger than us, this is an extra terrestrial being who can do things no one else can. As his father said it would change the world.

Also remember Superman is a fictional character and he's open to intepretation. He's been reinvented over and over again and this is a modern reinvention of a character like that existing in todays world.

My comment about Jonathan was perhaps a bit too strong, but I think telling a child that maybe he should let people die is a very strong sentiment. I still would have preferred that his drive to do good was from the Kents, to make him the most human. Right now it almost plays like Kal-El is innately good and the Kents managed to tone it down a tad over the years.

But my main point was that Clark actually shows this sense of doing good when it's needed, no matter the cost, as a kid. That's Superman to me. That he does that more significantly as a kid than later in life makes his arc a little backwards on that account, although I again point out that I don't think he's a bad person at any point. If they wanted him to learn to be good they shouldn't have shown him at his peak as a kid.

 

[BH/HHH]

My comment about Jonathan was perhaps a bit too strong, but I think telling a child that maybe he should let people die is a very strong sentiment. I still would have preferred that his drive to do good was from the Kents, to make him the most human. Right now it almost plays like Kal-El is innately good and the Kents managed to tone it down a tad over the years.

But my main point was that Clark actually shows this sense of doing good when it's needed, no matter the cost, as a kid. That's Superman to me. That he does that more significantly as a kid than later in life makes his arc a little backwards on that account, although I again point out that I don't think he's a bad person at any point. If they wanted him to learn to be good they shouldn't have shown him at his peak as a kid.

Nah I get what your saying. For me it was nice that they did something different with Pa Kent that still kept the essence of the character and I've seen the heart attack so many times I was happy with something new and I found it really emotional. As for the maybe line the way Costner played it he almost looked ashamed to have said it but in some ways he was right.

I don't see how he does any less good later in life he's dealing with an alien invasion for a start he's got his hands pretty full. Also amongst all that he still manages to save indivduals i.e. Lois, Col Hardy and the Solider falling from the sky but people seem to forget that.

 

[Mjölnir]

Nah I get what your saying. For me it was nice that they did something different with Pa Kent that still kept the essence of the character and I've seen the heart attack so many times I was happy with something new and I found it really emotional. As for the maybe line the way Costner played it he almost looked ashamed to have said it but in some ways he was right.

I don't see how he does any less good later in life he's dealing with an alien invasion for a start he's got his hands pretty full. Also amongst all that he still manages to save indivduals i.e. Lois, Col Hardy and the Solider falling from the sky but people seem to forget that.

Yeah, Costner did a great job with the role. I wish we would have seen more of Clark's upbringing so we'd gotten more of Jonathan.

He does the opposite when his father is about to die, which makes it a step backwards. I wish they would have made that scene differently so Clark didn't have to just choose not to help him, and so Jonathan isn't able to stand calmly and look at him while the storm is so strong that it's actually lifting cars a few meters behind him. And when it comes to having an arc I think Superman should do more good in the end than in the beginning, truly rising up to be the hero that he is. I'd have him try to do everything he could to avoid hurting the people of Metropolis and not give into pure fighting until Zod has made him fail at that. Then he could show grief over both failing that and that he had to kill Zod.

As for him saving those three people, the only thing that really sets them apart from the many thousands of other Metropolis citizens that are in danger are that the audience has connected to them a bit (well, Lois is more than that of course since Supes is infatuated with her). Even though he's powerful he can't be used to seeing destruction like he and Zod are causing, so it should be chocking and worrying that other people get killed.

 

[robot]

33 years on the earth doesn't mean 33 years on the outer space.

Yes it does... unless you're travelling at near the speed of light, at which point when the arrive on Earth, Earth wold have aged millions of years... so, no clark, no superman, etc...

 

[JOE]

The flashbacks with Pa Kent, those could still continue in MOS 2. There's still a lot about his childhood the movie didn't explore.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah, Costner did a great job with the role. I wish we would have seen more of Clark's upbringing so we'd gotten more of Jonathan.

He does the opposite when his father is about to die, which makes it a step backwards. I wish they would have made that scene differently so Clark didn't have to just choose not to help him, and so Jonathan isn't able to stand calmly and look at him while the storm is so strong that it's actually lifting cars a few meters behind him. And when it comes to having an arc I think Superman should do more good in the end than in the beginning, truly rising up to be the hero that he is. I'd have him try to do everything he could to avoid hurting the people of Metropolis and not give into pure fighting until Zod has made him fail at that. Then he could show grief over both failing that and that he had to kill Zod.

As for him saving those three people, the only thing that really sets them apart from the many thousands of other Metropolis citizens that are in danger are that the audience has connected to them a bit (well, Lois is more than that of course since Supes is infatuated with her). Even though he's powerful he can't be used to seeing destruction like he and Zod are causing, so it should be chocking and worrying that other people get killed.

I can see there been more in MOS 2 of Costner for sure.

But his Dad held a belief and he listened to him. The world wasn't ready for him yet, they never would have accepted him. Because he saves the world from an alien invasion then they can accept him, same as the army he's helping them fighting side by side with them.

He couldn't save others when he's fighting Zod because he goes off to rescue one indvidual Zod kills 4 others and to be fair we don't even know if anyones around at that point we don't see anybody in danger except the family that Superman saves who obviously chose to hide in the underground.

 

[Mjölnir]

I can see there been more in MOS 2 of Costner for sure.

But his Dad held a belief and he listened to him. The world wasn't ready for him yet, they never would have accepted him. Because he saves the world from an alien invasion then they can accept him, same as the army he's helping them fighting side by side with them.

He couldn't save others when he's fighting Zod because he goes off to rescue one indvidual Zod kills 4 others and to be fair we don't even know if anyones around at that point we don't see anybody in danger except the family that Superman saves who obviously chose to hide in the underground.

Yeah, it's certainly possible that we get more flashbacks. I'm not counting on it though as I think they possibly did as little as they did with the upbringing to focus more on Superman going forward. But we'll see.

But one factor of that the world isn't ready is that no one apparently believed the people that were talking about what he did. There was no signs of that anyone than the parents of the kids believed anything. Logically it would have been the same the second time, people dismissing witnesses as deluded or such. I'd also sooner take the not so nice road of scaring the witnesses into silence than letting my father die when he didn't have to.

As for helping people, it's about trying not necessarily succeeding (I even wrote that he would fail and then change attitude in the fight). The main reason I want this is because I think the action in the end needed more emotion and investment.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah, it's certainly possible that we get more flashbacks. I'm not counting on it though as I think they possibly did as little as they did with the upbringing to focus more on Superman going forward. But we'll see.

But one factor of that the world isn't ready is that no one apparently believed the people that were talking about what he did. There was no signs of that anyone than the parents of the kids believed anything. Logically it would have been the same the second time, people dismissing witnesses as deluded or such. I'd also sooner take the not so nice road of scaring the witnesses into silence than letting my father die when he didn't have to.

As for helping people, it's about trying not necessarily succeeding (I even wrote that he would fail and then change attitude in the fight). The main reason I want this is because I think the action in the end needed more emotion and investment.

Well never say never hopefully we get something.

Well I think it would have been harder to discredit the amount of people that were there though in that scene but I get what you're saying.

Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree on that final point t:

 

[Mjölnir]

Well never say never hopefully we get something.

Well I think it would have been harder to discredit the amount of people that were there though in that scene but I get what you're saying.

Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree on that final point t:

Yes, hopefully. Regardless of the things I see as flaws with the movie it still makes me want to see a sequel and there's several good things to build on.

Yes, it would certainly not be painless, especially in the Smallville community. I don't think the world necessarily would have been on notice though since if I heard some people in some town claim that they saw a superhero/physical divine intervention/etc I wouldn't believe it. Whether or not they could have stayed in Smallville depends a lot on how those people reacted.

Yep, it's fine to see things differently. It's just opinions and I'd be happier if I shared yours in this instance. It's also nice to be able to discuss things like this without people taking offense. That's not always the case.

 

[PacificBoy]

As for helping people, it's about trying not necessarily succeeding (I even wrote that he would fail and then change attitude in the fight). The main reason I want this is because I think the action in the end needed more emotion and investment.

That was what hurt the film for me too. People draw comparisons with the end fight in The Avengers, where a city was leveled with a similar level of collateral damage (and deaths). The invested dynamics are, however, different. In The Avengers, the end fight was set up to showcase the assembling of the Avengers as a team, with all the teamwork and interplay - and the fun and banter - between the characters, which was the whole point of The Avengers really. Nothing deeper than that.

For what purpose did the end fight in Man of Steel serve? To depict him saving people, as a hero? But Clark was already saving lives from the beginning, in spite of Pa Kent's good intentions. Or was the whole point of the battle to lead to the decision to take Zod's life, that being a superhero means making the tough choices?

In comparison, I thought that the movie Chronicle depicted a more emotionally felt battle of two superpowered beings duking it out in a city, where the villain of the piece was hellbent on destroying everything and the other protagonist who arrived at the same desperate decision to stop him.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yes, hopefully. Regardless of the things I see as flaws with the movie it still makes me want to see a sequel and there's several good things to build on.

Yes, it would certainly not be painless, especially in the Smallville community. I don't think the world necessarily would have been on notice though since if I heard some people in some town claim that they saw a superhero/physical divine intervention/etc I wouldn't believe it. Whether or not they could have stayed in Smallville depends a lot on how those people reacted.

Yep, it's fine to see things differently. It's just opinions and I'd be happier if I shared yours in this instance. It's also nice to be able to discuss things like this without people taking offense. That's not always the case.

Definitely I really respect that we were able to discuss it so calmly some people get really arsey about things on forums lol been a pleasurable debate t:

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't want to see any more of Clark's childhood. They can certainly make references to past events if necessary, but I don't want to actually see it.

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't want to see any more of Clark's childhood. They can certainly make references to past events if necessary, but I don't want to actually see it.

Well I don't think we need to see alot, there could just be 1 or 2 moments relating to the story that he thinks back too.

 

[robot]

Well I don't think we need to see alot, there could just be 1 or 2 moments relating to the story that he thinks back too.

If they are gonna do any more flashbacks.. please let it be more than 3 mins long each... especially if it has action... otherwise it'll be like MOS, totally useless..

 

[BH/HHH]

If they are gonna do any more flashbacks.. please let it be more than 3 mins long each... especially if it has action... otherwise it'll be like MOS, totally useless..

It was not totally useless at all jeez

 

[robot]

It was not totally useless at all jeez

Ok, I exaggerated... but they could have been so much better...

 

[BH/HHH]

Ok, I exaggerated... but they could have been so much better...

Lol fair enough, I liked how quick it was, it was definitely more like a comic book. But each to their own t:

I really hope you like many others get the film they wanted in a sequel.

 

[bluearth]

I thought what are you going to do with you life when not saving the world was really underused in the film.

In the trailer as soon as Clark stops the Oil rig from collapsing the theme explodes and it really matches the moment. But its not like that in the film. You can see what Im talking about at 1:29 in this trailer

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY[/YT]

Overall music placement was excellent, I just want to hear more of that theme throughout the movie, especially when hes saving people or doing heroic things

 

[Boy Scout]

Well I don't think we need to see alot, there could just be 1 or 2 moments relating to the story that he thinks back too.

No thanks. I've seen enough.