What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope? - Part 1

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]511601[/split]

 

[smallville fan]

What the title says. I think it's pretty self-explanatory about the question this thread asks.

 

[Gotham Marvel]

Well, there always is hope.
They just need to have a clear direction and stick to it.
The worst thing for them to do is get nervous and start making last minute changes.
That's when things really start falling apart.

 

[Flint Marko]

Suicide Squad's budget was 175 million and it's BO tally was 745.6 million. That's a net gain of 570.6 million dollars.

I specifically mentioned Snyder's films, didn't I?

BvS' budget was 250 million and it's BO tally was 873.3 million, which is a net gain of 623.3 million dollars, so I'll ask again: how is earning more than 1 million in combined profit performing "below expectations"?

Clearly you don't know the way box office revenue works.

First of all, the film has an estimated adjusted budget of $410 million (~$250 for production and ~$160 million for marketing). BvS only generated revenue amounting to a little over twice it's overall investment.

Second, there is the revenue share between theaters and studios. On average (each studio makes different contracts for different films), the share is ~55/45, with the studio getting the larger portion. So of the $897 million this film made, $410 million doesn't count because that is just the return on the initial investment.

The profitable portion of the revenue comes from the remaining $487 million, meaning the studio is only earning ~$267 million off of their $410 million investment. But even this is not an adequate overview, because the share taken by the studio is even smaller overseas (~40%) than the average I listed above. In other words, the actual revenue earned is likely less than $267 million.

So, no, the film did not perform at or above expectations. Warner Bros. will make money thanks to licensing and video sales, but "making back money while dividing the fanbase" is not crossing expectations. This film would have needed to cross the $1 billion mark to hit that mark. As of right now, Warner Bros. is mostly in the position to break even, since the rule of thumb is that a film should earn twice its total production budget to break even. It hit that, but suffered one of the most massive box office-drops in history against no competition and continued to bleed in a way that clearly showed that the film did not resonate with audiences.

So, again, I'll ask you: how can you say the movie performed to expectations when the studios action's afterwards clearly say otherwise? Do studios that are satisfied with a film's performance fly out reporters to the set of their next movie to assure fans that they're going to course correct? Do studios that are satisfied with a film's performance have notable internal shake-ups among executives?

 

[UltimatePyro9]

I just realized a problem the DCEU has and it sorta competing with the DCCWU or "Arrowverse" as it were.

Because the DCEU and the Arrowverse are two different entities, they can tell stories with the same character played by different actors. However, the DCEU has to have movies strong enough where the general public would be willing to go to the movie theater and spend money. It has to be very different from the 'Arrowverse' where it doesn't feel like the movie is retreading old plots from the TV shows. And they have to do that with a Hollywood blockbuster budget.

I mean, why should I watch a possible Man of Steel 2, when there's a Supergirl show that has a, well, more 'characterized' Superman in it?

 

[DigificWriter]

I specifically mentioned Snyder's films, didn't I?



Clearly you don't know the way box office revenue works.

First of all, the film has an estimated adjusted budget of $410 million (~$250 for production and ~$160 million for marketing). BvS only generated revenue amounting to a little over twice it's overall investment.

Second, there is the revenue share between theaters and studios. On average (each studio makes different contracts for different films), the share is ~55/45, with the studio getting the larger portion. So of the $897 million this film made, $410 million doesn't count because that is just the return on the initial investment.

The profitable portion of the revenue comes from the remaining $487 million, meaning the studio is only earning ~$267 million off of their $410 million investment. But even this is not an adequate overview, because the share taken by the studio is even smaller overseas (~40%) than the average I listed above. In other words, the actual revenue earned is likely less than $267 million.

So, no, the film did not perform at or above expectations. Warner Bros. will make money thanks to licensing and video sales, but "making back money while dividing the fanbase" is not crossing expectations. This film would have needed to cross the $1 billion mark to hit that mark. As of right now, Warner Bros. is mostly in the position to break even, since the rule of thumb is that a film should earn twice its total production budget to break even. It hit that, but suffered one of the most massive box office-drops in history against no competition and continued to bleed in a way that clearly showed that the film did not resonate with audiences.

So, again, I'll ask you: how can you say the movie performed to expectations when the studios action's afterwards clearly say otherwise? Do studios that are satisfied with a film's performance fly out reporters to the set of their next movie to assure fans that they're going to course correct? Do studios that are satisfied with a film's performance have notable internal shake-ups among executives?

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

Talk to me when the facts line up with your claims, sweet'ems

 

[Wise]

DC needs to fix it's villains situation.

General Zod was the only truly effective and interesting villain that has been portrayed so far and he was honestly underused in MoS.

Joker and Luthor who should be the DCEU's premier antagonists are in their current versions a total disaster.

It's insane to me that Snyder decided to take such a big risk with Luthor knowing that his character is going to have to stick around in the universe for the long term.

 

[The Endless]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

To be fair all he is done it's point out facts about how the box office works.

Basically, BvS made about 150-200 million of pure profit. Which seems like a lot... but it really isn't in the grand scheme of things. A R rated Deadpool with no 3d and no China was more of a success overall. Deadpool out grossed BvS in the US. Just think about that for a second.

At the end of the day WB wanted a billion for BvS. No denying that. It also didn't resonate with audiences and split DC fans.

There is no way BvS can be considered a success when you consider it should've been an Avengers or Star Wars challenger.

 

[Nick Morton]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

Do you not know how the Box Office works ?

Read these two articles & educate yourself

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-...plit-among-actors-directors-and-everyone-else
http://warmovies.about.com/od/Box-O...-Office-Film-Budgets-and-Review-Consensus.htm

They are failures each movie is & all they did was split the Fan Base up another thing the DCEU failed at & based on your history of predicting things on here you should really quit while you are ahead as no one takes you seriously with that stuff. If you consider BVS a failure so is SS since that made less so that is by default a failure & BVS was a failure

Bring On The Reboot

 

[2kt09]

well, there always is hope.
They just need to have a clear direction and stick to it.
The worst thing for them to do is get nervous and start making last minute changes.
That's when things really start falling apart.

qft

A R rated Deadpool with no 3d and no China was more of a success overall. Deadpool out grossed BvS in the US. Just think about that for a second.

It outgrossed everything. A lesson worth learning.

 

[Nick Morton]

qft

The Batman is in trouble

Gotham City: Sirens was fast tracked because they could not find a third director for The Flash

Seriously how fast was the Sirens script written thats what I wanna know

Things will never get better as long as the same people / CEO is in charge of WB thats a fact at this point

 

[2kt09]

The Batman is in trouble

Gotham City: Sirens was fast tracked because they could not find a third director for The Flash

Seriously how fast was the Sirens script written thats what I wanna know

Things will never get better as long as the same people / CEO is in charge of WB thats a fact at this point

I don't need another Batman solo for a long while
Good luck to The Flash
F***ing Skwad all over again
The first sign of change is bound to be felt - 2018

 

[Nick Morton]

I don't need another Batman solo for a long while
Good luck to The Flash
F***ing Skwad all over again
The first sign of change is bound to be felt - 2018

Whats supposed to happen in 2018 ?

 

[2kt09]

Whats supposed to happen in 2018 ?

Notice anything?

 

[Nick Morton]

Notice anything?

All in house people no one outside looking in wants to touch a DC property that will just get destroyed in the editing room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbLGQf9WIK4

 

[2kt09]

All in house people no one outside looking in wants to touch a DC property that will just get destroyed in the editing room

uh............................................................................................................................................................[BLACKOUT]sure?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Nick Morton]

uh............................................................................................................................................................[BLACKOUT]sure?[/BLACKOUT]

You can hand a script in to the WB CEO saying stuff & thangs happen on each page & the ****er will green light. The Zack Snyder DCEU must perish & they also love rushing movies I dont see how anything on that list is good for 2018 & thats more movies for me to avoid

 

[Erzengel]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

TASM2's production budget was north of $200M. Let's say $200 for easy numbers.

It grossed $708M WW. Sony doesn't get $508M profit. According to the Sony leaks, they only made $65M in profit.

The Force Awakens had a production budget of $245M. It grossed $2.068B WW. Disney did not pocket $1.823B in profit. According to I think deadline, they grossed over $900M in profit.

Where's the rest? It's marketing, theater share, etc. For this discussion, let's ignore merchandising at the moment.

I'm not saying BvS or SS didn't earn a profit, but it's not as much as you think it is.

Especially BvS. I disagree that it's an absolute failure, but while it didn't bomb, I think their profit for BvS was modest while their profit for SS was much more positive.

 

[Luke234]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

Why do people care about how much money it makes as long as it's enough to make more movies?

 

[Luke234]

I just realized a problem the DCEU has and it sorta competing with the DCCWU or "Arrowverse" as it were.

Because the DCEU and the Arrowverse are two different entities, they can tell stories with the same character played by different actors. However, the DCEU has to have movies strong enough where the general public would be willing to go to the movie theater and spend money. It has to be very different from the 'Arrowverse' where it doesn't feel like the movie is retreading old plots from the TV shows. And they have to do that with a Hollywood blockbuster budget.

I mean, why should I watch a possible Man of Steel 2, when there's a Supergirl show that has a, well, more 'characterized' Superman in it?

A lot of people don't bother to watch the tv shows because they're a little young jokey and cheesy. But some people really love them so it's good there's both for different tastes.

 

[DA_Champion]

Why do people care about how much money it makes as long as it's enough to make more movies?

Because the state of the industry is indicative of things to come.

 

[Chesterfield]

I'm done arguing with you. You go right ahead and keep on seeing the DCEU films as dismal failures, and I'll go on seeing them as the successes they are.

Because you clearly don't know how BO works you should have conceded with that Wee Bey gif; at least that would have shown you're now woke to how the BO works.

 

[NHawk19]

Why do people care about how much money it makes as long as it's enough to make more movies?

That's basically what the entire discussion is. Did the movie make enough money, and create enough good will to warrant a sequel? But it's on a much larger scale because this was supposed to launch a franchise.

BvS was WB's second step in trying to create a larger DCCU. The movie itself had all the characters it should have needed to launch a franchise. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc and yet the movie didn't cross into an area that saw it generate the kind of profit the studious were anticipating. So the next step is lets look for some kind of ancillary wins for WB that might signal long term this is still a really good idea.

DCCU is late to the game. Marvel is established. WB needs to evaluate the following: Maybe it was some fatigue that set in. Maybe the fans loved it and we'll sell toys, and DVD's and we can use the positive momentum to justify moving forward. Unfortunately though this is not the case for BvS. The movie took a really enthusiastic fanbase and left them divided.

Now you're left with the following: An average profitable movie, with a divided fanbase. This now means half may decide it's not worth going to see the next film in the theaters, or spend their money on the ancillaries. That leaves a studio must evaluating whether or not to continue down the same path or find a way to course correct. It also puts them in a situation where now not only are the competing with a direct competitor but they are also forced to make-up for the "bad-will" they generated in half of the fan base.

To further complicate matters WB/DC announced a full slate and commitment to their DCCU. Now the question becomes how far down that rabbit hole are they willing to go?

 

[Bats123]

Talk to me when the facts line up with your claims, sweet'ems

i dont think you can take seriously someone with a Fant4stic avatar....