What is DC Entertainment doing? What is their plan? - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]353965[/split]

 

[TheVileOne]

Because honestly I really don't know. They made this big show of re-aligning DC as DC Entertainment and basically copied Marvel's model after they already started. Now I'm not really sure what they are doing or the direction they are heading in.

Now I know we got Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern all coming out. That's great and all. But I mean, the Batman franchise was re-started in 2005. Superman was rebooted a year later and failed to relaunch the franchise. Now we have yet another Superman relaunch attempt in the works. But how is this going to all work?

For years WB has expressed interest in doing a Justice League movie. They failed to beat Marvel at their own game and beat them to the punch as Avengers will hit first. Marvel has two new huge comic movie franchises now in Iron Man and Thor. Batman successfully re-started but I'm just not sure what the direction of DC Entertainment is and what we truly have to look forward to.

Geoff Johns and Diane Nelson just seem extremely vague in their statements. It's to the level where I think they really have no idea what they are doing or what they want to do and that they are simply waiting to see what Marvel does first so they can come in second.

I don't get the apparent plan for Justice League. All the franchises are separate. OK. But that's until Justice League is apparently going to be the starting point of spin-off movies for the Flash and Wonder Woman. OK . . . how the hell is that supposed to work? So you recast Superman and Batman for these movies . . . if they are even in the movie at all, but you make sequels to the movie featuring Flash or Wonder Woman in their own things? And what about Green Lantern which they want to be a franchise as well? Here is what I don't understand is how they can honestly plan on making Green Lantern a success and then just dropping him in a Justice League movie and continue making Green Lantern movies starring Ryan Reynolds/Hal Jordan after that. It doesn't jive to me.

I think it's clear they are waiting to see what Marvel does and how well everything turns out but they don't want to be accused of doing this or copying their model so they are taking this guise of being "different" and "everything is its own thing."

What disappoints me about all this is that Time Warner has owned DC for a long time it really shouldn't be this freaking hard to get things off the ground. Marvel has had all this success and that is with their big heavy hitters spread out to other studios for years. Thank goodness they were able to get Iron Man back and make the movie themselves while New Line stalled with it for years.

I want to have an honest, serious discussion and debate here if we can.

 

[akfj]

Maybe all it would take is for a respected filmmaker to come to WB with an idea for one of those films? They didn't go to Nolan for Superman, he came to them with Goyer's idea.

I don't know if Nolan and Goyer have a strict "policy". They made a Batman trilogy that doesn't feature Superman or any Superman references, and I don't think that they are any worse off because of that. Their approach for the Superman movie is to just focus on Superman, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that either. It's really a matter of what they want to focus on than some scheme to make sure a Justice League movie never comes to light. They've been hired to make Superman and Batman movies, not Justice League movies.

 

[Tobias]

As I see it the DC Entertainment model is not working. DC Entertainment is basically a glorified advisory group of sorts to WB. But WB is still making the crucial decisions mostly. And given their focus is not superhero films the whole process is playing out over years and years.

Other than the Batman reboot right now WB has no superhero franchise to turn to to carry them over the next decade. Unless they step out in faith and do a JL trilogy.

I think the model should be for WB to create a wholly owned subsidiary studio to make DC films and give it a 10 year window to become profitable and, this is key, give it total control over decisions made and films produced.

WB can sink some money into the group in the early years but this subsidiary studio has to be able to raise it's own capital mostly and eventually turn a profit.

It becomes WB's version of Marvel Studios. Focused and hopefully pennywise when it comes to spending money which Marvel is famous for but which WB seems to not be able to do as well. The huge budgets for GL and SR which didn't really show in the finished products.

 

[SoulManX]

Because honestly I really don't know. They made this big show of re-aligning DC as DC Entertainment and basically copied Marvel's model after they already started. Now I'm not really sure what they are doing or the direction they are heading in.

Now I know we got Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern all coming out. That's great and all. But I mean, the Batman franchise was re-started in 2005. Superman was rebooted a year later and failed to relaunch the franchise. Now we have yet another Superman relaunch attempt in the works. But how is this going to all work?

For years WB has expressed interest in doing a Justice League movie. They failed to beat Marvel at their own game and beat them to the punch as Avengers will hit first. Marvel has two new huge comic movie franchises now in Iron Man and Thor. Batman successfully re-started but I'm just not sure what the direction of DC Entertainment is and what we truly have to look forward to.

Geoff Johns and Diane Nelson just seem extremely vague in their statements. It's to the level where I think they really have no idea what they are doing or what they want to do and that they are simply waiting to see what Marvel does first so they can come in second.

I don't get the apparent plan for Justice League. All the franchises are separate. OK. But that's until Justice League is apparently going to be the starting point of spin-off movies for the Flash and Wonder Woman. OK . . . how the hell is that supposed to work? So you recast Superman and Batman for these movies . . . if they are even in the movie at all, but you make sequels to the movie featuring Flash or Wonder Woman in their own things? And what about Green Lantern which they want to be a franchise as well? Here is what I don't understand is how they can honestly plan on making Green Lantern a success and then just dropping him in a Justice League movie and continue making Green Lantern movies starring Ryan Reynolds/Hal Jordan after that. It doesn't jive to me.

I think it's clear they are waiting to see what Marvel does and how well everything turns out but they don't want to be accused of doing this or copying their model so they are taking this guise of being "different" and "everything is its own thing."

What disappoints me about all this is that Time Warner has owned DC for a long time it really shouldn't be this freaking hard to get things off the ground. Marvel has had all this success and that is with their big heavy hitters spread out to other studios for years. Thank goodness they were able to get Iron Man back and make the movie themselves while New Line stalled with it for years.

I want to have an honest, serious discussion and debate here if we can.

Well said!

 

[Tobias]

Because honestly I really don't know. They made this big show of re-aligning DC as DC Entertainment and basically copied Marvel's model after they already started. Now I'm not really sure what they are doing or the direction they are heading in.

Now I know we got Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern all coming out. That's great and all. But I mean, the Batman franchise was re-started in 2005. Superman was rebooted a year later and failed to relaunch the franchise. Now we have yet another Superman relaunch attempt in the works. But how is this going to all work?

For years WB has expressed interest in doing a Justice League movie. They failed to beat Marvel at their own game and beat them to the punch as Avengers will hit first. Marvel has two new huge comic movie franchises now in Iron Man and Thor. Batman successfully re-started but I'm just not sure what the direction of DC Entertainment is and what we truly have to look forward to.

Geoff Johns and Diane Nelson just seem extremely vague in their statements. It's to the level where I think they really have no idea what they are doing or what they want to do and that they are simply waiting to see what Marvel does first so they can come in second.

I don't get the apparent plan for Justice League. All the franchises are separate. OK. But that's until Justice League is apparently going to be the starting point of spin-off movies for the Flash and Wonder Woman. OK . . . how the hell is that supposed to work? So you recast Superman and Batman for these movies . . . if they are even in the movie at all, but you make sequels to the movie featuring Flash or Wonder Woman in their own things? And what about Green Lantern which they want to be a franchise as well? Here is what I don't understand is how they can honestly plan on making Green Lantern a success and then just dropping him in a Justice League movie and continue making Green Lantern movies starring Ryan Reynolds/Hal Jordan after that. It doesn't jive to me.

I think it's clear they are waiting to see what Marvel does and how well everything turns out but they don't want to be accused of doing this or copying their model so they are taking this guise of being "different" and "everything is its own thing."

What disappoints me about all this is that Time Warner has owned DC for a long time it really shouldn't be this freaking hard to get things off the ground. Marvel has had all this success and that is with their big heavy hitters spread out to other studios for years. Thank goodness they were able to get Iron Man back and make the movie themselves while New Line stalled with it for years.

I want to have an honest, serious discussion and debate here if we can.

My vision of a JL trilogy is that after JL1 a character is taken from the first JL and given a solo franchise. That character is not used in JL2 but a new DC character is brought in. Same thing happens after JL2 and with JL3. Launch another solo franchise and bring in another JL team member.

Batman or Superman need to be in at least JL1. Despite the decent cast the jury is out on MOS and I have doubts if it will be able to relaunch Superman. So use Batman in JL1. The new Batman actor as part of his contract should have to agree to do at least 1 JL film.

If JL1 is a success I'd drop Batman from JL2 and just use the ongoing JL series as a vehicle for featuring other DC superheros.

Will WB take this path? I don't know. It seems to me the best way for them to geet there from here. One thing I'd bet on - if Avengers cracks a billion next year JL will be fast-tracked by WB and the new Batman actor will be contractually obligated to appear in it.

 

[Lord]

My idea for JL 2 is that instead of repeating the title and adding a 2 it could instead be Zero Hour, Blackest Night, Infinite Crisis or many other big DC events

 

[akfj]

Will WB take this path? I don't know. It seems to me the best way for them to geet there from here. One thing I'd bet on - if Avengers cracks a billion next year JL will be fast-tracked by WB and the new Batman actor will be contractually obligated to appear in it.

I don't see that happening. There seems to be a ceiling with the Marvel Studios films. It will probably make slightly more than Iron Man 2, but anything else is an overestimation in my opinion.

And WB hasn't fast-tracked any of their superhero films to my knowledge. They are very, very slow.

 

[Airwings]

Is the commercial failure with Green Lantern an indication for how DC heroes will perform as live action? I don't think so. Even the popular Marvel characters don't bring in money all the time. Thor, Captain America & Iron Man did well (plus a couple of others from different studios). But there have been two attempts with the Hulk and it never became the really big smash hit. Doesn't matter, because he will still be in Avengers.
Warner Bros should not cancel Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman just because of Green Lantern's box office numbers. Not every non-supes/non-bats DC character will fail, I promise you that.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I honestly don't think Green Lantern was much poorer than Marvel's superhero offerings this summer. I think it was decreed that Green Lantern would be a failure before it was even released, and so it came to pass like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Inevitably, at least one of all those superhero movies in quick succession was going to fail - it's just the law of averages. But I'm sad it was Green Lantern that had to be the one, because that was the one that had the most at stake, and the most to lose.

 

[Oddzball]

DC expects their Soopahirow movies to be record smashing franchises. Marvel makes movies they hope do well. Warner execs insist on getting a say on the film. Marvel's producer/director teams have much more autonomy.

 

[SouloHero]

I am truly disappointed that DC Entertainment/WB don't have a long range plan...or none that we know of that is as clear as Marvel's...I would like to, as a DC fan, look forward to some of the other hero's movies (WW, Aquaman, Flash, etc.) coming out in years to come, but they certainly don't fill me w/ confidence....

 

[OsGom]

To kind of pile on the issues with DC Entertainment, it appears the one area I always felt was a company strength, animation, could be in trouble. I read report yesterday about them launching another Batman Animated series with a Katana wielding sidekick and gun wielding Alfred. It doesn't sound promising.

 

[Docker2.0]

No wonder DCE is in trouble. Yet another Batman cartoon. Why don't they go somewhere for awhile? I know GL has one coming out soon but what about Flash or even Superman? Batman has had countless cartoons for the last 2-3 decades. It seems like they pour all of their eggs in that basket. No wonder Batman fans have nothing to worry about. If DC/WB put as much money or interest in at least 5 other characters besides Batman they'd at least look competitive.

 

[Airwings]

DC/WB are strange. Several of the heroes can be big hypes, even if we don't expect it. Just look at the surprise hits Iron Man and Thor. I sense Hawkman can go the same way.
Somebody else should take care of these properties. New Line? Paramount? Universal? MGM?​

 

[Saitou Hajime]

I honestly don't think Green Lantern was much poorer than Marvel's superhero offerings this summer. I think it was decreed that Green Lantern would be a failure before it was even released, and so it came to pass like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

After that first trailer, yeah, but the follow-up trailers pretty much had most people thinking it would be the summer movie to beat, the "next Star Wars" if you will. Which was why the backlash was so great when the reality was more terrifying than the myth.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Animal Man and Swamp Thing were once again the best titles of the week from DC. I think Warner Bros could really benefit from looking towards the supernatural/horror themed "Dark" corner of the DCU when thinking of future film projects to put into development.

 

[jmc]

What disappoints me about all this is that Time Warner has owned DC for a long time it really shouldn't be this freaking hard to get things off the ground. Marvel has had all this success and that is with their big heavy hitters spread out to other studios for years. Thank goodness they were able to get Iron Man back and make the movie themselves while New Line stalled with it for years.

I want to have an honest, serious discussion and debate here if we can.

That's the reason why anything DC related has a hard time getting started. Time Warner. There's nothing DC can do.

 

[jmc]

I honestly don't think Green Lantern was much poorer than Marvel's superhero offerings this summer. I think it was decreed that Green Lantern would be a failure before it was even released, and so it came to pass like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Inevitably, at least one of all those superhero movies in quick succession was going to fail - it's just the law of averages. But I'm sad it was Green Lantern that had to be the one, because that was the one that had the most at stake, and the most to lose.

No, GL deserved the shellacking it got. It wasn't good enough.

 

[Micromind]

No, GL deserved the shellacking it got. It wasn't good enough.

WB can move ahead with the Justice League movie plans, It does not matter whether Green Lantern was a successful movie or not here is the reason -

Unlike Thor, Iron Man and to a certain extent Captain America, General Audience does not need to see the origin movies of Batman and Superman again to make their entry into a JL movie, both Bats and Supes are well known and the fact that Green Lantern has had a solo movie recently He can be featured as a JL member. (think of him as DC equivalent of Hulk.)

As for the other two important members like The Flash and Wonder Woman, introduce them in a JL movie and then WB can make a spin off movie afterwards. A JL movie with the Big Five members can be good enough.

 

[Raiden]

WB can move ahead with the Justice League movie plans, It does not matter whether Green Lantern was a successful movie or not here is the reason -

Unlike Thor, Iron Man and to a certain extent Captain America, General Audience does not need to see the origin movies of Batman and Superman again to make their entry into a JL movie, both Bats and Supes are well known and the fact that Green Lantern has had a solo movie recently He can be featured as a JL member. (think of him as DC equivalent of Hulk.)

As for the other two important members like The Flash and Wonder Woman, introduce them in a JL movie and then WB can make a spin off movie afterwards. A JL movie with the Big Five members can be good enough.

Of course WB can make a JL movie if they want, but do they? So far it's all talk and zero action. They also have to contemplate how soon to reboot Batman, since Nolan is out after TDKR and Bale indicated that he will hang up the cowl as well, and JL will be a fresh take on the Batman franchise. Of course, they can't ignore Cavill either, and it will be important whether to keep him or go with a new actor if they want to make JL a standalone movie that isn't connected with other DC superhero films. I think the fact is, WB hasn't planned ahead, and these are questions that even they don't have answers for.

 

[Lencho01]

WB can move ahead with the Justice League movie plans, It does not matter whether Green Lantern was a successful movie or not here is the reason -

Unlike Thor, Iron Man and to a certain extent Captain America, General Audience does not need to see the origin movies of Batman and Superman again to make their entry into a JL movie, both Bats and Supes are well known and the fact that Green Lantern has had a solo movie recently He can be featured as a JL member. (think of him as DC equivalent of Hulk.)

As for the other two important members like The Flash and Wonder Woman, introduce them in a JL movie and then WB can make a spin off movie afterwards. A JL movie with the Big Five members can be good enough.

They were pretty much going to that years ago.

 

[Kyle Rayner]

Because honestly I really don't know. They made this big show of re-aligning DC as DC Entertainment and basically copied Marvel's model after they already started. Now I'm not really sure what they are doing or the direction they are heading in.

Now I know we got Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern all coming out. That's great and all. But I mean, the Batman franchise was re-started in 2005. Superman was rebooted a year later and failed to relaunch the franchise. Now we have yet another Superman relaunch attempt in the works. But how is this going to all work?

For years WB has expressed interest in doing a Justice League movie. They failed to beat Marvel at their own game and beat them to the punch as Avengers will hit first. Marvel has two new huge comic movie franchises now in Iron Man and Thor. Batman successfully re-started but I'm just not sure what the direction of DC Entertainment is and what we truly have to look forward to.

Geoff Johns and Diane Nelson just seem extremely vague in their statements. It's to the level where I think they really have no idea what they are doing or what they want to do and that they are simply waiting to see what Marvel does first so they can come in second.

I don't get the apparent plan for Justice League. All the franchises are separate. OK. But that's until Justice League is apparently going to be the starting point of spin-off movies for the Flash and Wonder Woman. OK . . . how the hell is that supposed to work? So you recast Superman and Batman for these movies . . . if they are even in the movie at all, but you make sequels to the movie featuring Flash or Wonder Woman in their own things? And what about Green Lantern which they want to be a franchise as well? Here is what I don't understand is how they can honestly plan on making Green Lantern a success and then just dropping him in a Justice League movie and continue making Green Lantern movies starring Ryan Reynolds/Hal Jordan after that. It doesn't jive to me.

I think it's clear they are waiting to see what Marvel does and how well everything turns out but they don't want to be accused of doing this or copying their model so they are taking this guise of being "different" and "everything is its own thing."

What disappoints me about all this is that Time Warner has owned DC for a long time it really shouldn't be this freaking hard to get things off the ground. Marvel has had all this success and that is with their big heavy hitters spread out to other studios for years. Thank goodness they were able to get Iron Man back and make the movie themselves while New Line stalled with it for years.

I want to have an honest, serious discussion and debate here if we can.

What really irks me is that many complain that it is hard to pull a Flash, Wonder Woman or GL movie cause the ammount of FX that needs to be done. Yet, they don't even bother trying, a few years ago Joss Whedon had a Wonder Woman script for a film and WB said no. Whedon end up directing the Avengers. There's no vision in WB other than dollars signs. Micromanaging killed the GL film.

Iron Man wasn't even a blip on anyones radar other than comics until the trailer came out. IM itself made Marvel a powerhouse being that it was the first time making a film.

I honestly think that DC Entertaiment should be in charge on what how to do a film without WB intervention. Guys like Bruce Timm, David Goyer and Geoff Johns should be pushing this character into mainstream instead of having them working from behind the scenes.

.

 

[Kyle Rayner]

No wonder DCE is in trouble. Yet another Batman cartoon. Why don't they go somewhere for awhile? I know GL has one coming out soon but what about Flash or even Superman? Batman has had countless cartoons for the last 2-3 decades. It seems like they pour all of their eggs in that basket. No wonder Batman fans have nothing to worry about. If DC/WB put as much money or interest in at least 5 other characters besides Batman they'd at least look competitive.

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!! They own CN and they are pushing Young Justice and Batman: Brave and Bold. GL tv show is coming out in Nov (I think), the next obvious choice should be the Flash or a Brave and Bold show where Batman is not involved. As great of a character that Batman is, it proves that you can only go so far reinventing a character. Marvel learned this quick and they have been pushing their characters in film and animation.

DC/WB needs to get the ball rolling before it's to late.

 

[Micromind]

a few years ago Joss Whedon had a Wonder Woman script for a film and WB said no. Whedon end up directing the Avengers.

Whedon's script and his Ideas were just not good enough for the WW character, that is what both DC and WB felt and since then some fans who were aware of the Whedon's take on WW said the same thing, that his take on WW was not good.