Negativity towards the DC films? - Part 1

[NealKenneth]

That sounds like what they do with DC Comics. Marvel Comics too for that matter.

For as long as we live with copyright and "intellectual property" this will be what happens to all art.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I think part of the problem for me and why I try to post mostly in dceu forums now opposed to the supposedly neutral is this very reason though. There is good discussion (which you are good at...not everyone else on this forum is.) But the problem I find is when a counter point is produced, it's completely negated by the sheer "it didn't make a billion at the box office, or " rotten tomatoes score lulz".

I'm all for discussion.

Discussion about the DCEU has become more about narrative than truth. Yes the films are divisive but they are nowhere near as bad as GL, Batman and Robin, or Catwoman. Because it didn't make a billion indicates, in some peoples minds, that BvS is a failure and most people hate it; when the facts don't add up to that.

 

[Erzengel]

I think the dislike of BvS for a lot of people isn't that it didn't do a $1B. It's the quality, story, characters/characterization that rubbed people the wrong way. It found it's mark with a niche group and not an overall consensus.

 

[BH/HHH]

Discussion about the DCEU has become more about narrative than truth. Yes the films are divisive but they are nowhere near as bad as GL, Batman and Robin, or Catwoman. Because it didn't make a billion indicates, in some peoples minds, that BvS is a failure and most people hate it; when the facts don't add up to that.

Exactly, some people love to go overboard. End of the day it's not a minority that likes these films either. The amount that do is too big to call it that.

 

[Drseuss]

'Wheres the sequel of WW? just shows DC has no plan!!!'

so has marvel announced black panther 2 & 3 lol ??

 

[Drseuss]

and ppl keep forgetting to put 'Gadot is poorly cast by Snyder, she can't speak English' on their list of why dc is the worst.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Discussion about the DCEU has become more about narrative than truth. Yes the films are divisive but they are nowhere near as bad as GL, Batman and Robin, or Catwoman. Because it didn't make a billion indicates, in some peoples minds, that BvS is a failure and most people hate it; when the facts don't add up to that.

No kidding. People ignore all evidence of good stuff in the universe and say it's all bad when really it's of the same quality as Marvel's universe IMO.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I think Marvel has done some fantastic things (mostly before AOU) and done things better than DC, but at the same time I think DCEU has done other things better. I'm not trying to make this a comparison thread, just addressing the blatant bias negativity towards DC. If you don't like the films, there's no reason to feel you have to hide it; I just want the false narrative to stop. I don't like Suicide Squad but at least I can admit it was a success and that the majority of audiences liked the film.

 

[Erzengel]

Exactly, some people love to go overboard. End of the day it's not a minority that likes these films either. The amount that do is too big to call it that.

Honest question. Fan and general audience wise, what do you think is the percentage between those who liked and disliked the film.

 

[BH/HHH]

Honest question. Fan and general audience wise, what do you think is the percentage between those who liked and disliked the film.

Honestly I can't answer it because same with you or any other player I don't know. All we can do is take things like the audience scores on RT (none of the DCEU films are lower than 50*). But even that really isn't accurate to the whole world because it's just a pertcentage of X amount of people. I just know from people I know and what I see on things like Twitter etc that although they're not revered by everyone there is a large amount that Luke and love these films. So I don't think we can say things like it's a niche group or a minority because it isn't.

Cinema Scores*

Man of Steel - 75%
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - 63%
Suicide Squad - 62%
Wonder Woman - 92%

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Honestly I can't answer it because same with you or any other player I don't know. All we can do is take things like the audience scores on RT (none of the DCEU films are lower than 50*). But even that really isn't accurate to the whole world because it's just a pertcentage of X amount of people. I just know from people I know and what I see on things like Twitter etc that although they're not revered by everyone there is a large amount that Luke and love these films. So I don't think we can say things like it's a niche group or a minority because it isn't.

Cinema Scores*

Man of Steel - 75%
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - 63%
Suicide Squad - 62%
Wonder Woman - 92%

And when you consider that RT has a lousy way of tracking audience scores by letting people rate a movie before the movie has even reached the theaters, and so a big chunk of the scores
are want it to be good rather than actually being good, the real audience score is probably lower for some movies.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

And when you consider that RT has a lousy way of tracking audience scores by letting people rate a movie before the movie has even reached the theaters, and so a big chunk of the scores
are want it to be good rather than actually being good, the real audience score is probably lower for some movies.

Same can be said the other way around. People who hate DC films rating it low before they see it and the scores might actually be higher.
It's not just RT audience scores either that rate it average to above average; but you clearly want to believe these films are hated by everyone.

 

[BH/HHH]

And when you consider that RT has a lousy way of tracking audience scores by letting people rate a movie before the movie has even reached the theaters, and so a big chunk of the scores
are want it to be good rather than actually being good, the real audience score is probably lower for some movies.

I even said in my post that it isn't accurate. Maybe read the post properly next time.

Same can be said the other way around. People who hate DC films rating it low before they see it and the scores might actually be higher.
It's not just RT audience scores either that rate it average to above average; but you clearly want to believe these films are hated by everyone.

Exactly

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Same can be said the other way around. People who hate DC films rating it low before they see it and the scores might actually be higher.
It's not just RT audience scores either that rate it average to above average; but you clearly want to believe these films are hated by everyone.

Just going by the fact that there were a lot more negative scores after BvS and SS were released while there were a lot more positive scores before the movies were released. While Wonder Woman has maintained the positive ratio both before and after the movie was released. How do you explain that? You clearly want to believe the films were loved by everyone and that the critics got it all wrong. 59% and below is considered Rotten. So at 63% for BvS and and 62% for SS, they just barely made it past Rotten, and most likely would be Rotten if only the scores for after when they were released were counted.

 

[BH/HHH]

Just going by the fact that there were a lot more negative scores after BvS and SS were released while there were a lot more positive scores before the movies were released. While Wonder Woman has maintained the positive ratio both before and after the movie was released. How do you explain that? You clearly want to believe the films were loved by everyone and that the critics got it all wrong. 59% and below is considered Rotten. So at 63% for BvS and and 62% for SS, they just barely made it past Rotten, and most likely would be Rotten if only the scores for after when they were released were counted.

So what did you follow the scores as they changed? Cause I have a hard time believing that.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Just going by the fact that there were a lot more negative scores after BvS and SS were released while there were a lot more positive scores before the movies were released. While Wonder Woman has maintained the positive ratio both before and after the movie was released. How do you explain that? You clearly want to believe the films were loved by everyone and that the critics got it all wrong. 59% and below is considered Rotten. So at 63% for BvS and and 62% for SS, they just barely made it past Rotten, and most likely would be Rotten if only the scores for after when they were released were counted.

You're kind of making a circular argument. If this happened then the scores would be lower.

I could just as easily argue the opposite, that when the critics started piling some of the fans did as well before they saw the movie - I know that happened with BvS here on this very site.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I even said in my post that it isn't accurate. Maybe read the post properly next time.

Where did you say anything in your post about the audience scores before the movie was released as compared to after the movie was released?
All you said was the audience score wasn't accurate. I elaborated on why the audience score wasn't accurate. Maybe read my post properly?

 

[Osiris-Rex]

So what did you follow the scores as they changed? Cause I have a hard time believing that.

They are still there on the RT website. Just compare the scores before the movies were released to afterwards. And I actually did track the scores in real time. At one time both of them were in the high 90s.
These things interest me, so I pay attention.

 

[BH/HHH]

Where did you say anything in your post about the audience scores before the movie was released as compared to after the movie was released?
All you said was the audience score wasn't accurate. I elaborated on why the audience score wasn't accurate. Maybe read my post properly?

You're insinuating that the scores would be lower if the people who rated it before the movies release hadn't yet you can't say that for sure unles you followed the scores closely. How do you know there weren't people leaving negative ratings before hand? I have a hard time believing that you followed the scores that closely.

In any case I don't think you can rely on RT for anything anyway. But I brought it up as an example to look at but I even said its not accurate.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

You're insinuating that the scores would be lower if the people who rated it before the movies release hadn't yet you can't say that for sure unles you followed the scores closely. How do you know there weren't people leaving negative ratings before hand?

In any case I don't think you can rely on RT for anything anyway. But I brought it up as an example to look at.

Because both movies had scores in the high 90s at first and rapidly dropped in only a few days. If people had been leaving negative ratings
all along the initial score would have tracked with the final score.

 

[BH/HHH]

Because both movies had scores in the high 90s at first and rapidly dropped in only a few days. If people had been leaving negative ratings
all along the initial score would have tracked with the final score.

But in that case wouldn't it have been a 100 before release? That's still a percentage that are rating it low of is that not how it works?

There could have been people rating it negatively afterwards aswell without seeing it. I've seen that sort of thing happen on Amazon plenty of times with stuff that hasn't even been released yet. I don't think it's as black & white as you think it is. People could have rated it poorly after release without seeing it also.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

But in that case wouldn't it have been a 100 before release? That's still a percentage that are rating it low of is that not how it works?

There could have been people rating it negatively afterwards aswell without seeing it. I've seen that sort of thing happen on Amazon plenty of times with stuff that hasn't even been released yet. I don't think it's as black & white as you think it is. People could have rated it poorly after release without seeing it also.

No, it would never be 100%, because like you said there are always going to be people that hate superhero movies, and Marvel trolls, who scored them before release.

I'm sure there were people who hadn't seen the movies also rating it negatively after the movie was released. But it would seem that ratio would have matched the before and after negatives. I doubt there was a mass campaign that saw the 90s scores and made a concerted effort to pull the scores down to the 60s that didn't exist before the movies were released. And why aren't these people out there trying to bring Wonder Woman down? She started in the 90s and is still in the 90s. It would seem they would have even more to gain now, in that the feeling it that Wonder Woman has turned the DCEU around. Wouldn't they be doubling their efforts to tear the DCEU down?

 

[BH/HHH]

No, it would never be 100%, because like you said there are always going to be people that hate superhero movies, and Marvel trolls, who scored them before release.

I'm sure there were people who hadn't seen the movies also rating it negatively after the movie was released. But it would seem that ratio would have matched the before and after negatives. I doubt there was a mass campaign that saw the 90s scores and made a concerted effort to pull the scores down to the 60s that didn't exist before the movies were released. And why aren't these people out there trying to bring Wonder Woman down? She started in the 90s and is still in the 90s. It would seem they would have even more to gain now, in that the feeling it that Wonder Woman has turned the DCEU around. Wouldn't they be doubling their efforts to tear the DCEU down?

I don't think there was a mass campaign either way and I never said there was but the way you're acting it's like it's some of the films only have a decent cinema score because of scores prior to release. It would appear you're the one creating conspiracy theories.

 

[Erzengel]

It happens even with the movies that get great reviews.

But in the end, CW still has a high score. An audience score that dips from the 90s to 89, one would say that the consensus is that it's pretty good.

BvS went from the 90s to 60s, I don't know how you can just say, that's just Marvel trolls and Snyder haters that caused that. There's always going to be people who try to score down or up a movie, but it'd have to be a pretty massive undertaking to purposely drop a score like that.

 

[BH/HHH]

It happens even with the movies that get great reviews.

But in the end, CW still has a high score. An audience score that dips from the 90s to 89, one would say that the consensus is that it's pretty good.

BvS went from the 90s to 60s, I don't know how you can just say, that's just Marvel trolls and Snyder haters that caused that. There's always going to be people who try to score down or up a movie, but it'd have to be a pretty massive undertaking to purposely drop a score like that.

Where did I say that?

Also might be worth reading the whole discussion cause I didn't argue that either.