The Avengers What if Avengers were an afterthought from the other MCU films?

[Pinky021]

It strikes me as strange that WB is allowing individual directors to dictate to the studio how its properties will be used. By giving Nolan control of Superman as well as Batman, the studio has essentially endorsed his vision of each character being isolated in his own little universe. That signals that WB has no intention of ever creating the kind of interconnected universe that Marvel has.

One could rationalize that with the old argument that a world with a Superman needs no other heroes, I suppose. But Supes can't be everywhere, so even though he could handle all the petty villains Batman faces without breaking a sweat he wouldn't necessarily be able to respond. He might not even care since he deals with more cosmic foes (or should).

Can any foe realistically face off against a team containing a character as ridiculously powerful as Superman? Would any villain ever be able to go toe-to-toe with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern? Batman would probably end up getting in their way because he's not on the same level.

Correct!!,, How can Batman be any major threat against super-villains?,, or how can Batman take down Superman, Wonder-Man, Green Lantern!,, theres is no chance, and I find this very annoying. Don't get me wrong, I love Batman, but I just don't feel he belongs with the super powered heroes.

 

[Quasimod0]

Hawkeye and black widow have no powers either

 

[dony2012]

One could rationalize that with the old argument that a world with Thor needs no other heroes, I suppose. But Thor can't be everywhere, so even though he could handle all the petty villains Iron Man/Cap faces without breaking a sweat he wouldn't necessarily be able to respond. He might not even care since he deals with more cosmic foes (or should).

Can any foe realistically face off against a team containing a character as ridiculously powerful as Thor? Would any villain ever be able to go toe-to-toe with Thor, Hulk and Iron Man? Cap would probably end up getting in their way because he's not on the same level.

Now... See what I did here?

 

[Liam_H]

Firstly nolan is a god at WB. What he says goes. It's far more important to WB to keep him happy than it is to keep a bunch of DC fans happy. He generates the huge money.

That said I actually question whether nolan is truly 'in charge' of Superan. I know he worked on the script but I suspect that is all. Of course I cannot be certain but here is what I suspect is really going on. WB failed on everything superhero except nolan's Batman. So they asked nolan (not the other way around) to get involved in the superman pre-production, primarily by overseeing the script, which he did. His involvement as a producer is probably minimal to non-existant as he is working on a $260 million production known as tdkr. His minimal involvement is all a ploy by WB so that when advertising they can attach his name to it to boost interest.

You are right Nolan's involvement with MOS was just delivering the script to WB, choosing Snyder to direct, and maybe some casting choices. But as of now he's too busy with TDKR to be involved any further. Whether MOS fails or succeeds is all upon Snyder's shoulder. Nolan's name is only for marketing purposes at this point.

Correct!!,, How can Batman be any major threat against super-villains?,, or how can Batman take down Superman, Wonder-Man, Green Lantern!,, theres is no chance, and I find this very annoying. Don't get me wrong, I love Batman, but I just don't feel he belongs with the super powered heroes.

It doesn't matter that Batman isn't a super-powered being there are plenty of ways for him to contribute. He's usually the guy that comes up with the strategy or the plan that will solve a conflict when brute strength won't work.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Well we could (and I would hope so too), but would there be any explaining needed to show how they occupy the same universe? Batman seems to be almost the sole hero of his, although I suppose the same could've been said of Iron Man in his first movie (even though Nick Fury challenged this at the very end in the after credits scene). Certainly Iron Man didn't seem as if he could really mesh with Thor at the time.

Bale's Batman doesn't seem like he would fit with anyone else, but maybe things could be worked out so that it wouldn't seem all that impossible to share a universe with Superman and all these other DC heroes.

Maybe Batman was the world's first superhero? Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc... all started popping up after him.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe Batman was the world's first superhero? Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc... all started popping up after him.

That would work and be plausible. Someone has to be the first and Batman's as good a candidate as any.

 

[dony2012]

My sort of PITCH for how to make it work...

Make Batman the first operating super hero in the world. While Green Lantern and Superman: MoS will take place AFTER the events in TDKR.

While Flash and Wonder Woman will be smaller in scale and could occur parallel to the events in TDKR.

Take Bradley Cooper to play Flash, and let Neil Burger to direct the film.
The feathers on his head should be painted on his head like in Captain America.
Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman) should be somehow involved/responsible for the creation of Flash (continuity with the Batman films).

Take someone like Zoe Saldana to play Wonder Woman (in the long-term thinking, the Justice League team should have some diversity) and make it EXACTLY like the animated Wonder Woman DVD film. With Nathan Fillion as Steve Trevor and (maybe even) Alfred Molina as Ares. And give her some pants (Only logic. It's not like I don't want to see her in that skirt... ).

...

That animated WW movie was one kick-ass movie! Better than Thor, Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk and Captain America COMBINED! That how good it was.

Take Brad Bird to write and direct Justice League.

Maybe have a Batman/Superman movie before that to establish their friendship.

And most importantly, unlike Marvel, MAKE SURE that each one of your films is able to stand on it's own!



What do you think?

 

[Quasimod0]

I dont think the wonder woman movie was THAT good. lol

 

[dony2012]

I dont think the wonder woman movie was THAT good. lol

It was REALLY good, in my opinion.

You don't have to agree with me of course.

But I thought it was one kick-ass movie and I know many people agree with me on that.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think some future Marvel movies don't necessarily need to reference the Avengers. For instance, let's take a character like The Punisher. The reason I pick him is that he has never been on an Avengers team. Now it would be silly to reference them in his movie if Marvel ever make another one. However, what if, at some point in the future, Marvel Comics somehow (in a moment of insanity) decides to actually put him in the Avengers team? Well, up until that point in the comics he hasn't been associated with them, but it wouldn't be too difficult to show the circumstances in which he joins. And if the MCU decided to follow suit (which would be a bad idea, but whatever) then they wouldn't be able to rely on previous set ups in the Punisher movie but would have to figure out a way to make it work from that point forward.

The same would've held for Wolverine if Marvel Studios owned him and were already making X-Men or Wolverine films, and then he joined the Avengers in the comics like he did with the New Avengers storyline and Marvel Studios wanted to capitalise on that (which, again, I don't think would be a good idea).

I think a similar approach could be taken for ACTUAL Avengers who have been members. For instance, I don't know if Black Panther needs to have a SHIELD agent seeking him out and trying to recruit him for the team. If it is his origin where he ascends the throne of Wakanda following the death of his father and then battles Ulyssees Klaw, I don't know if he needs to be headhunted by SHIELD straight away. It might be enough to show his origin in his own movie, but then leave his recruitment for the Avengers sequel.

It would even be cool if, during production of Avengers 2, that it is never revealed whether Panther is going to be on the team or whether the actor is even part of the cast. Then, if the Avengers and SHIELD are having a particular problem in Avengers 2, they can suddenly decide they want to go and recruit BP and his appearance would be a pleasant surprise. It would be like how, in the comics, characters from other books appear without warning and it becomes a really cool cameo or team up. If he's already been set up in his own movie, audiences would suddenly say (provided they remember he's had a film), "hey, it's that Black Panther character! I didn't know he was going to be in this!"

Just a thought.

 

[Shadowlord X]

My sort of PITCH for how to make it work...

Make Batman the first operating super hero in the world. While Green Lantern and Superman: MoS will take place AFTER the events in TDKR.

While Flash and Wonder Woman will be smaller in scale and could occur parallel to the events in TDKR.

Take Bradley Cooper to play Flash, and let Neil Burger to direct the film.
The feathers on his head should be painted on his head like in Captain America.
Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman) should be somehow involved/responsible for the creation of Flash (continuity with the Batman films).

Take someone like Zoe Saldana to play Wonder Woman (in the long-term thinking, the Justice League team should have some diversity) and make it EXACTLY like the animated Wonder Woman DVD film. With Nathan Fillion as Steve Trevor and (maybe even) Alfred Molina as Ares. And give her some pants (Only logic. It's not like I don't want to see her in that skirt... ).

...

That animated WW movie was one kick-ass movie! Better than Thor, Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk and Captain America COMBINED! That how good it was.

Take Brad Bird to write and direct Justice League.

Maybe have a Batman/Superman movie before that to establish their friendship.

And most importantly, unlike Marvel, MAKE SURE that each one of your films is able to stand on it's own!



What do you think?

Having spoken to many non-comicbook people the MARVEL films all stand perfectly fine on their own.


And the topic of this thread is not for people to give their plans for how to resurrect a connected DC universe after the complete failure that was GL.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, this thread isn't to do with DC at all really. I only mentioned it in my original post to show my train of thought on how I arrived at the idea for this thread. It's about as relevant as hitting your head on the toilet and getting the idea for the Flux Capacitor. You wouldn't focus on the toilet.

 

[dony2012]

Having spoken to many non-comicbook people the MARVEL films all stand perfectly fine on their own.


And the topic of this thread is not for people to give their plans for how to resurrect a connected DC universe after the complete failure that was GL.

Iron Man 2 stand fine on his own?


For me it felt like one big teaser for The Avengers, same goes for Cap third act and Thor...

And my non-comicbook friends and people I know thought the same.

 

[Shadowlord X]

Iron Man 2 stand fine on his own?


For me it felt like one big teaser for The Avengers, same goes for Cap third act and Thor...

And my non-comicbook friends and people I know thought the same.

You need more intelligent friends.

And the topic of this thread is not for dc fanboys to vent their issues with the MCU.

Let's stay on topic please.

 

[dony2012]

You need more intelligent friends.

And the topic of this thread is not for dc fanboys to vent their issues with the MCU.

Let's stay on topic please.

But i'm NOT a DC fanboy, in fact i'm a DC hater.

Batman is the only DC superhero I like.

But yes, I have a problem with the way Marvel Studios are handling their shared cinematic universe.


"You need more intelligent friends."

There are a lot of people who think the same thing, you think that ALL OF THEM are unintelligent?

 

[T-CLIPSE]

like I said
it gives the movie in question a buzz bump under the disguise of smart planning

Do you have some facts to back up this statement?

He may not have facts to back up that statement but I've got facts to dispute that statement....
No it wasn't "a buzz bump under the disguise of smart planning" Marvel knew from the beginning they had plans for Fury in other movies.

If you listen to the Directors Commentary in 'Rise Of The Silver Surfer" director Tim Story made mention of how he originally wanted the General Hager character played by Andre Braugher to be Nick Fury, and went on to say something to the effect that Marvel wouldn't let him have Fury because they had plans for him in other movies, so Tim came up with the Hager character (an African American general) similar to Fury to serve as that purpose.

Marvel knew they didn't want that character licensed to Fox.

 

[Raiden]

Iron Man 2 stand fine on his own?


For me it felt like one big teaser for The Avengers, same goes for Cap third act and Thor...

And my non-comicbook friends and people I know thought the same.

So a couple of scenes with Fury in IM2 turns the entire movie into a big teaser for Avengers? Seems to me you & your friends were just fixtated on those scenes and didn't pay attention to the rest of the movie.

 

[Shadowlord X]

But i'm NOT a DC fanboy, in fact i'm a DC hater.

Batman is the only DC superhero I like.

But yes, I have a problem with the way Marvel Studios are handling their shared cinematic universe.


"You need more intelligent friends."

There are a lot of people who think the same thing, you think that ALL OF THEM are unintelligent?

It baffles me as to why a DC hater would spend his time planning out how to bring a bunch of characters that he doesn't like onto the big screen.

My point remains the topics you are bringing up have been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum. Some people don't like how the MCU has been developed; WE GET IT, now give it a rest for pete's sake.

Let's not let this thread get derailed with rehashed issues and DCCU concepts that noone here cares about.

 

[Shadowlord X]

So a couple of scenes with Fury in IM2 turns the entire movie into a big teaser for Avengers? Seems to me you & your friends were just fixtated on those scenes and didn't pay attention to the rest of the movie.

It's the same old story that holds no water, but again let's not let the thread get derailed.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

So a couple of scenes with Fury in IM2 turns the entire movie into a big teaser for Avengers? Seems to me you & your friends were just fixtated on those scenes and didn't pay attention to the rest of the movie.

'Raiden' don't waste time trying to argue that point with those people talking all of that "advertising for the Avengers" and "teaser for The Avengers" nonsense, people keep saying that as though it's a bad thing.

OBVIOUSLY those films are written that way to serve as partial set-up for The Avengers, the whole intention is to get the audience familiar with these characters BEFORE The Avengers comes out and to link all that stuff together. I mean what would they prefer?.. a bunch of characters that you haven't been introduced to just start showing up in one film and establishing all that back story and character connection in that same film. That movie would have to be somewhere near 4 and half to 5 hrs long.

Comics have been using that method of cross pollination to spin off new characters and comic titles for decades and now people see Marvel taking a standard comic book storytelling practice and incorporating it into the movies and they act like it's something sinful.

And furthermore.....

...who cares if it's "Avengers advertising" You're damn right it's advertising, it's supposed to be advertising, they're supposed to promote upcoming product, that's how you sell Coke, Nike, Budweiser, Big Mac's, and believe it or not...AVENGERS! They're SUPPOSED TO ADVERTISE, it only makes good business sense to me...Avengers assemble.

I don't get the criticism