The Dark Knight What if Joker was lying about the boat detonators

[The Joker]

I wasn't talking about Harvey. I was talking about Batman.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

I wasn't talking about Harvey. I was talking about Batman.

I thought we were talking about the Joker.. ?

 

[HisMagicTrick]

I wasn't talking about Harvey. I was talking about Batman.

Haha sorry, I just got what you meant

I understand what you mean, but I was just putting an example there of why I thought the Joker was lying. He changes his plans (and mind) so swiftly, and like I said, I was just trying to make it logical on how he could have actually done that.

Hmm.. hopefully that made sense.

 

[The Joker]

Haha sorry, I just got what you meant

I understand what you mean, but I was just putting an example there of why I thought the Joker was lying. He changes his plans (and mind) so swiftly, and like I said, I was just trying to make it logical on how he could have actually done that.

Hmm.. hopefully that made sense.

Yes, but think of it like this. Joker initially wanted to kill Batman. Then he became so enamored with Batman and how much fun he was to challenge that he changed his mind and actually begun to protect Batman's identity because he thought a world without him would be so boring.

Similar with Dent, Joker may initially just have seen Dent as an obstacle to be removed for the underworld. Then he saw the golden opportunity to destroy Gotham's hope by using Harvey to do it.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

Yes, but think of it like this. Joker initially wanted to kill Batman. Then he became so enamored with Batman and how much fun he was to challenge that he changed his mind and actually begun to protect Batman's identity because he thought a world without him would be so boring.

Similar with Dent, Joker may initially just have seen Dent as an obstacle to be removed for the underworld. Then he saw the golden opportunity to destroy Gotham's hope by using Harvey to do it.

So, basically the Joker was telling the truth the whole time with his whole 'and it was so... boring, I've had a change of heart' speech, and with his first video threat. To be honest, I think you're right. And I didn't really consider the fact that the Joker actually wanted Harvey dead; I always assumed he was lying and had this whole plan to corrupt Gotham's White Knight from the beginning. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than how complicated I originally thought.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yes, but think of it like this. Joker initially wanted to kill Batman. Then he became so enamored with Batman and how much fun he was to challenge that he changed his mind and actually begun to protect Batman's identity because he thought a world without him would be so boring.

Similar with Dent, Joker may initially just have seen Dent as an obstacle to be removed for the underworld. Then he saw the golden opportunity to destroy Gotham's hope by using Harvey to do it.

Amen. That's what I thought.

So, basically the Joker was telling the truth the whole time with his whole 'and it was so... boring, I've had a change of heart' speech, and with his first video threat. To be honest, I think you're right. And I didn't really consider the fact that the Joker actually wanted Harvey dead; I always assumed he was lying and had this whole plan to corrupt Gotham's White Knight from the beginning. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than how complicated I originally thought.

It makes much more sense. Otherwise why would he be shooting an RPG at the van containing Harvey? I saw a Cracked article criticizing the complexity of Joker's plan in The Dark Knight, and I think they got it wrong. I had the impression that the Joker had different plans for the most likely foreseeable outcomes, as well adjusting his plans as the situation changed.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

It makes much more sense. Otherwise why would he be shooting an RPG at the van containing Harvey? I saw a Cracked article criticizing the complexity of Joker's plan in The Dark Knight, and I think they got it wrong. I had the impression that the Joker had different plans for the most likely foreseeable outcomes, as well adjusting his plans as the situation changed.

I have to agree there. With what you and the Joker (user) are saying, that must be what the Joker was doing throughout TDK. He sure is one genius criminal mastermind

 

[The Joker]

So, basically the Joker was telling the truth the whole time with his whole 'and it was so... boring, I've had a change of heart' speech, and with his first video threat. To be honest, I think you're right.

Oh definitely he was telling the truth. He said it in the interrogation room:

"I don't want to kill you. What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, NO! No you....you complete ME!"

He also said it again in his final scene with Batman:

"You won't kill me out of some mis-placed sense of self righteousness and I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever"

Joker didn't want a Gotham without Batman.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't think anyone else would be aware of the detonators switching. Joker wanted to corrupt people, to bring them down to his level, so to speak. If the civilians blew themselves up trying to blow up the other boat, I think Joker would be satisfied that their last act before their death was that of attempted murder.

As to whether or not he did actually switch the detonators, as people have said in this thread, we'll never know. I wouldn't put it past him to have done so though.

He would've corrupted everyone onshore because they'd spend their lives assuming whomever had lived were murderers, when they weren't. Imagine if the passengers had blown up their own boat, then all the prisoners get the death penalty because people assume they did it. That would fit right with Joker's view of the world.

 

[Slushy]

My friend brought up a good point: After fibbing to Batman about the locations of Dent and Dawes, how do we know the passengers of the boat weren't given their own detonators and told it was for the other boat.

That's what I always thought. He lied and switched the locations, so I would expect he would've done the same for the boat detonators.

 

[Boom]

I'm not sure. Which is more powerful?

One boat killing the other to save themselves? Or one boat killing themselves in an attempt to kill the others and save themselves?

 

[CaptainSpunk]

Dont forget that The Joker actually tried to blow up one or both of the boats after they failed to do it themselves. Probably just one boat. Remember the line Joker mutters about, "if ya want something done right ya gotta do it yourself..."
So even if one of the boats failed to press the button, Joker was gonna do it himself. Then it appeared that Jokers button jammed or misfired and that gave Batman enough time to switch the situation around. So either way it would have appeared to Gotham that one of the boats blew up the other. No matter which, it would have worked for The Jokers plan...

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think it's possible that if Joker had indeed given each boat their own detonator, he might have told them to blow themselves up.

 

[November Rain]

My friend brought up a good point: After fibbing to Batman about the locations of Dent and Dawes, how do we know the passengers of the boat weren't given their own detonators and told it was for the other boat.

i always thought it was a sick joke and they would actually be blowing up themselves in some ironic joke

or maybe after that, it would set off a timer in the other one leading to their demise as well. That's how i saw it but i presume we were supposed to take it for granted.

it doesn't make much difference regardless, the people of gotham passed

 

[Team Andino]

After my first viewing opening night I always believed the detonators were for their own boat seeing as how Joker lied about Harvey and Rachel's locations. I've had that mind set for so long that every time I see the movie now and that scene with the ferries happens I'm already thinking my theory is legit which makes that scene with the guy holding the detonator even more gut wrenching thinking he's about to kill everyone on his own boat.