What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in MCU?

[Blind_Lawyer]

He's still a virgin

Not for long. They introduced Sharon Carter in Winter Soldier. She'll show Steve a few tricks soon.

 

[TalismanRing]

Not for long. They introduced Sharon Carter in Winter Soldier. She'll show Steve a few tricks soon.

Pftt. Sharon will be lucky if he lets her hold his hand and for that she'll have to buy dinner at Le Cirque, tickets for a Broadway show and save a school bus of children. Steve's been holding out too long to give it up cheap.

 

[Lantern Venom]

MCU Steve seems to be a closer to Ult Steve in terms of physical ability who I think enters Superhuman levels rather than bordering them. But even if he's not "super human" he's not simply a very fit human or even an Olympic caliber human.

In terms of damage and healing - his bones are denser (why he looks lighter than he is), his metabolism is faster, he regenerates quickly so that not only did he not age and his cells not get damaged by the freezing the serum heeled any injuries while he was on ice.

I watched TWS again this weekend (I can't get enough of that film) and I noticed just how far he fell from the bridge when Bucky attacked. Unlike the plummet from the elevator, which I doubt even an Olympian could survive unharmed like Steve did, Steve didn't have his shield to cushion his fall into the bus. It was the kind of landing that could have paralyzed even a peak-conditioned human, but Steve was on his feet and fighting within minutes.

 

[Venomfan]

Yes, and in comics he's been in literally thousands of issues since he was created. When you have that big a data set, you can find some truly spectacular outliers. His *consistent* performance, by contrast, is. . . at the peak of normal human capacity, consistent with a bunch of other characters. Which is to say, nowhere near as good as the movie version.

he's always seemed at least as exaggerated in the comics to me. I mean in his first avengers appearance he manhandled giant man and had to be held back by Thor and Iron Man

 

[Venomfan]

here's a bunch of just insane stuff he's done, like holding up a building, pulling a helicopter out of the air, taking out professor hulk, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2xxq2m/respect_captain_america/

 

[Lantern Venom]

he's always seemed at least as exaggerated in the comics to me. I mean in his first avengers appearance he manhandled giant man and had to be held back by Thor and Iron Man

His first appearance on EMH was an homage to that. At one point, he was fighting Thor, Giant Man, and Iron Man all at once. They weren't exactly playing rough, but they couldn't control him either.

here's a bunch of just insane stuff he's done, like holding up a building, pulling a helicopter out of the air, taking out professor hulk, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2xxq2m/respect_captain_america/

Nice compilation there.

 

[Wildcard]

Always thought of MCU's Captain America as being superhuman & all of his feats back this up. He was shot multiple times in the Winter Soldier by a marksman, and they only slowed him momentarily.

Hell, by the end of the movie, not much time passed & he was all healed up. Not to mention him taking down helicarriers on his own & the like, I'm sure Marvel wanted to make it more than clear in TWS that Cap is superhuman.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

BW is peak female. Daredevil is about peak male. Cap is far superior in MCU. He has strength and durability that far exceeds his size and weight. It is superhuman.

neither of those characters are peak human physical condition. kingpin is peak male. daredevil and black widow are just highly skilled (in addition to daredevil's supersonic senses)

if captain america is indeed superhuman, i'll say he's overpowered. it would've been refreshing to have a superhero who was in the peak of human conditioning without actually having any superpowers. if we're going by 616 captain america, anyway. so then I guess the mcu version is based on ultimate

 

[MbJ]

We're really stretching the definition of "peak" if we're talking about the Kingpin. He's just a big fat guy with anger issues and a mean right hook. Nothing about ambushing and decapitating a man with a door or getting his ass beat by Daredevil says he's in better physical strength/condition than Black Widow or Daredevil.

 

[Mightmitenot]

In the late 70s or early 80s An Avengers writer who'd written Cap up with Super Strength noted what Jack Kirby was writing (with Cap having normal Strength) by putting in a thought balloon with Cap noting his strengh was goiing away.

The key part there was KIRBY had Cap without superstrength!! I'm voting with Jack Kirby on this one.

 

[Lilbaz]

neither of those characters are peak human physical condition. kingpin is peak male. daredevil and black widow are just highly skilled (in addition to daredevil's supersonic senses)

if captain america is indeed superhuman, i'll say he's overpowered. it would've been refreshing to have a superhero who was in the peak of human conditioning without actually having any superpowers. if we're going by 616 captain america, anyway. so then I guess the mcu version is based on ultimate

They are both as highly skilled as a human can get hence peak human. Yes they might not match a strongman in a bench press or bolt in a race but they are peak human in fighting ability and as fit as you can get. Cap can easily outmatch them. Look at him running. How many people alive could lap falcoln that many times jogging? Not even an olympic gold medalist would be able to keep pace.

 

[MbJ]

"Peak human" is a meaningless term in comics because what humans are capable of is already exaggerated to an insane degree. Characters like Batman and Daredevil frequently pull off stunts that make literally no sense unless they have superhuman abilities. Hell, one of the Batgirls once displayed the ability to move faster than a bullet. That's not even taking into account the fact that powerless, street level heroes frequently and repeatedly take injuries that would kill or cripple a normal human, and end up no worse for the wear other than needing stitches and some bed rest.

The comic definition of peak human is already several magnitudes greater than real world peak human and is thus effectively superhuman.

 

[Flint Marko]

neither of those characters are peak human physical condition. kingpin is peak male. daredevil and black widow are just highly skilled (in addition to daredevil's supersonic senses)

Where are you getting this from? It's all so arbitrary that I feel like drawing such distinct lines in the sand is kind of pointless. I see no reason to say that BW is not a peak human (I don't think Fisk could have fought alongside the Avengers in the Chitauri invasion), nor do I see a reason to say that Fisk is a peak human. Again, it's pretty arbitrary.
One thing that is pretty clear is that Captain America is a superhuman in the MCU. That much has been apparent since TFA.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They are both as highly skilled as a human can get hence peak human. Yes they might not match a strongman in a bench press or bolt in a race but they are peak human in fighting ability and as fit as you can get. Cap can easily outmatch them. Look at him running. How many people alive could lap falcoln that many times jogging? Not even an olympic gold medalist would be able to keep pace.

"Peak human" is a meaningless term in comics because what humans are capable of is already exaggerated to an insane degree. Characters like Batman and Daredevil frequently pull off stunts that make literally no sense unless they have superhuman abilities. Hell, one of the Batgirls once displayed the ability to move faster than a bullet. That's not even taking into account the fact that powerless, street level heroes frequently and repeatedly take injuries that would kill or cripple a normal human, and end up no worse for the wear other than needing stitches and some bed rest.

The comic definition of peak human is already several magnitudes greater than real world peak human and is thus effectively superhuman.

Where are you getting this from? It's all so arbitrary that I feel like drawing such distinct lines in the sand is kind of pointless. I see no reason to say that BW is not a peak human (I don't think Fisk could have fought alongside the Avengers in the Chitauri invasion), nor do I see a reason to say that Fisk is a peak human. Again, it's pretty arbitrary.
One thing that is pretty clear is that Captain America is a superhuman in the MCU. That much has been apparent since TFA.

The Wikipedia pages. Peak human isn't meaningless (kingpin had a greater level of brute strength than daredevil even though he was able to be beat), and it is distinctive from "highly skilled" and superhuman. They all definitely aren't the same thing.

Yes, MCU cap can probably take them out and my opinion, giving him that much strength makes him an overpowered superhero. I know I'm in the minority here but that is just how I feel

 

[MbJ]

I'm saying it's a meaningless distinction to make because Comic Cap is already effectively superhuman. This is kind of why I find power level discussions so silly. Jack Kirby can scream Cap doesn't have powers until he's blue in the face but that doesn't change the fact that he regularly demonstrates feats that are utterly impossible for humans to replicate, even through years of training and physical fitness.

He regularly takes down supervillains with incredible abilities and shrugs off hits that would leave a normal human drooling in a hospital bed for the rest of their lives.

 

[Flint Marko]

Fair enough. I don't really have a super strong opinion either way. As MBJ said, I've always found discussions like this a bit silly because it's all so ill-defined.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'm saying it's a meaningless distinction to make because Comic Cap is already effectively superhuman. This is kind of why I find power level discussions so silly. Jack Kirby can scream Cap doesn't have powers until he's blue in the face but that doesn't change the fact that he regularly demonstrates feats that are utterly impossible for humans to replicate, even through years of training and physical fitness.

He regularly takes down supervillains with incredible abilities and shrugs off hits that would leave a normal human drooling in a hospital bed for the rest of their lives.

that wasn't absolutely clear to me because I thought he was based on 616 cap. but there are different stages of superhuman strength. cap has it, but he would've lost to loki. drax has it, but he would've lost to ronan. iron man has it, but he would've lost to thor. thor and loki seemed on par. and so on and so forth.

Fair enough. I don't really have a super strong opinion either way. As MBJ said, I've always found discussions like this a bit silly because it's all so ill-defined.

the reason I brought it up was because I was confused about it; he isn't supposed to be superhuman, so to me it makes him overpowered. but we got our answer so I wouldn't mind if the thread gets locked.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The key part there was KIRBY had Cap without superstrength!! I'm voting with Jack Kirby on this one.

We're discussing the MCU version of Cap, not the original conception in the comics. Moreover, even if Simon and Kirby initially operated under the parameter of "peak", Cap being revived from suspended animation automatically made him superhuman since that's scientifically impossible for a human.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Spider-man can lift a bus over his head.

Cap could probably lift a very small car over his head.

Kind of the lowest level superhuman.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

We're discussing the MCU version of Cap, not the original conception in the comics. Moreover, even if Simon and Kirby initially operated under the parameter of "peak", Cap being revived from suspended animation automatically made him superhuman since that's scientifically impossible for a human.

who is supposed to be based on the marvel comics character, yeah?

 

[Lantern Venom]

who is supposed to be based on the marvel comics character, yeah?

That character is nearly 75 years old, with the variances that are to be expected with different writers and story mandates over that period of time.

Rogers started out as "peak", but too many of his abilities defy the limits of human ability. The MCU version has cut out the paradoxical nature of Cap's past writing and made him clearly superhuman.

 

[Lilbaz]

who is supposed to be based on the marvel comics character, yeah?

Drax is based on the comics character and is not nor ever has been human in mcu. So cap becoming slightly superhuman shouldn't be that much of a jump.

 

[Mike5575]

Pftt. Sharon will be lucky if he lets her hold his hand and for that she'll have to buy dinner at Le Cirque, tickets for a Broadway show and save a school bus of children. Steve's been holding out too long to give it up cheap.

Nah, they are totally going to shag. It may not happen in the movie with too much stuff going on. Come Infinity War, Sharon and Steve will be shagging on the regular. With Marvel replacing the old Avengers with new Avengers, it would be nice to see Steve throw in the towel and settle down with Sharon.

 

[MbJ]

who is supposed to be based on the marvel comics character, yeah?

Ignoring the fact that Cap's strength level already varies wildly in the comics, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

Yeah he's based on the comics cap, but the movies already take many liberties with the source material. Lots of things change from page to screen.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

That character is nearly 75 years old, with the variances that are to be expected with different writers and story mandates over that period of time.

Rogers started out as "peak", but too many of his abilities defy the limits of human ability. The MCU version has cut out the paradoxical nature of Cap's past writing and made him clearly superhuman.

it isn't absolutely clear. perhaps he's in like the earliest stage of superhuman capability, still bordering what a human can and cannot do.

Drax is based on the comics character and is not nor ever has been human in mcu. So cap becoming slightly superhuman shouldn't be that much of a jump.

drax was my favorite guardian, but i don't like when they change 1. the powers the characters have and 2. their origins.

Ignoring the fact that Cap's strength level already varies wildly in the comics, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

Yeah he's based on the comics cap, but the movies already take many liberties with the source material. Lots of things change from page to screen.

it's the counter argument to saying MCU cap is different from comic cap. that's obvious and common knowledge, but cap is supposed to mirror the character from the comics.