What studio is going to launch a major solo female superhero from the ground up?

And it took 9 films and a television show for the MCU to get there.

It took nine films and a television show for marvel studios to do their biggest stories that they wanted to get done first and build up their solid reputation. It did not take nine films and a television show for them to be able to do a GotG movie and it certainly will not take nine more films worth of build up just for them to be able to launch another unknown franchise. The MCU is already up and running. They can launch just about whatever they want now, as long as they have enough confidence to try it.
 
We should not celebrate Marvel/DC when they announce one female-led CBM after dozens of male-led CBMs, though I have no doubt that half this forum will be labelling them "hero".
 
It did not take nine films and a television show for them to be able to do a GotG movie
Yes it did.

It took Fox seven movies before they were 'able' to use Bishop or Blink (or real sentinels), and it took Sony five movies before they were 'able' to use electro or rhino, and it took WB eight movies (since 2000) before they were 'able' to make Batman vs Superman (or make any use whatsoever of Wonder Woman).

And none of that means a damn thing because the implication that the studios couldn't have done all of those things in a completely different order if they had chosen to do so is idiotic.
 
And none of that means a damn thing because the implication that the studios couldn't have done all of those things in a completely different order if they had chosen to do so is idiotic.

Sure, Marvel could have done GoTG before now. But it might have bombed, so that's why they did it now.
 
Sure, Marvel could have done GoTG before now. But it might have bombed, so that's why they did it now.

It might have bombed now. Or it might have been a surprise hit then (how many people knew who Iron Man was before 2008?). I'm sure Marvel chooses what they think is the best place in the lineup for all their movies, but that isn't proof that that lineup had to happen in that order. Regardless, the main point here is that the MCU is already a hit in and of itself. Insinuating that Marvel couldn't do a Quasar movie if they wanted to because it they would somehow have to spend another dozen movies building her up makes no sense whatsoever. They've *already* reached the point where they can successfully launch franchises that even a lot of comics fans have never heard of. GotG is proof positive of that. There would be no more buildup necessary (and really, outside of just building up the marvel reputation, there was almost no build up for GotG, either).
 
It might have bombed now. Or it might have been a surprise hit then (how many people knew who Iron Man was before 2008?).

Iron Man was a classic Marvel Superhero, who was a founding part of the Avengers. He might not have been as popular as Spider-man or Batman, but he's a hella a lot more popular than the GoTG.

There would be no more buildup necessary (and really, outside of just building up the marvel reputation, there was almost no build up for GotG, either).

I'm not saying it's going to take another 9 movies for them to make another movie about a lesser known character, merely, that it took them a lot of movies for them to get to that reputation.
 
You guys think the failure of all female-led superhero movies thus far is the reason there hasn't been any other since?

That is the open excuse in Hollywood. Goyer and ridge have talked about this studio mindset.

The movies bombed because they were bad and not because the leads were female. Screenwriter Stuart zicherman wrote the first craft for elektra said it was supposed to be a big 80 million dollar movie but then fox cut the budget in half, hired a new director, rewrote the film and fired him.

Zicherman was hired by garner and spent a year writing the movie. He said privately garner is embarrassed the film.
 
Last edited:
Aside from the recent news that Sony may beat everyone else to the punch in 2017 with their release of a supposed superheroine film the most common, actual reason I've heard as to why female led variations haven't been made or attempted is the merchandise.

Basically studios and toymakers believe that superhero movies are mostly made to be targeted at young males and therefore the the toys and other stuff is marketed to boys. I've been reading the 30th anniversary Making of Return of the Jedi released last year and there's an anecdote by Lucas who says that he wanted a plush Ewok toy made so his then baby daughter could have a Star Wars toy she could play with. The company that had the toy licence (Kenner I believe) told George that as far as they were concerned STAR WARS was for boys thus the toys produced and marketed would reflect that. It's been that way since and may explain why female leads were missing from major blockbusters for years.
 
Personally I think it will be Disney and I think it will be a Black Widow movie. I don't see Captain Marvel or Ms. Marvel movie being done before Black Widow. Maybe if there introduced in a future Marvel movie and stage is set for those characters then maybe but not just yet.

Fox could setup for Black Cat but I don't see that happen till after Amazing Spider-man 3; which gives Marvel more then enough time to pump out a Black Widow movie. Black Widow is a sure bet at the box office cause she an established character.

Right now it's a foot race to see who does it first. I will admit I am surprised at WB. With both Disney and Marvel itching to do a female super hero I figured WB would have jumped all over that.

Wonder-Woman would be the perfect character to be given a solo film. It would also give WB a chance to do something that Fox and Disney have been itching to do but have not done. I just don't get it. Waiting till after Justice League to give Wonder-Woman her own film makes absolutely no real sense to me. However what do I know I'm just a crazed DC fan.
 
We should not celebrate Marvel/DC when they announce one female-led CBM after dozens of male-led CBMs, though I have no doubt that half this forum will be labelling them "hero".

You know, I think that (assuming it is a good movie) we kind of should. I mean, should it be enough for either company to only have one female-led movie when they have dozens of male-led titles? Should it be good enough for them to simply put a woman on the release rooster and assume that - crash or cash - that will tie over those fans demanding more female representation? No, of course not, and I personally would not accept a single female character as some sort of "appeasement". I want well written, fully developed and independent characters who are treated in an equal fashion to her male peers. That's plural.

However, honestly, I am all for rewarding studios by cheering on any effort to give female and minority characters equal screen time. I think there is a difference between celebrating them moving in a positive direction, and settling for any sort of "charity". Kevin Feige recently made a comment about how if Marvel were to make a Black Widow movie they wouldn't get "credit" for it, and that kind of made me wrinkle my nose. It shouldn't be about getting credit, this isn't a points game. It should be done because you have an interesting rooster of potential characters and you want to diversify your brand and, yes, I personally think you should do it just because it is a good thing to do. But because I honestly believe that - that producing more movies with super heroines (especially those accessible to young adults/teenagers, little girls and boys) - I am so willing to reward studios for their efforts.

They want some sort of cheer and applaud and attention? You know what, sure. I am of the mindset that we as a culture are so in need of more equality in all arenas and that mass media is a MAJOR player in people's perspective that I am willing to throw you guys a freaking parade if that's what it will take. Hell, I haven't seen a single DC movie in theaters since Batman Begins because, to be honest, I'm just not that interested in the vast majority of these characters. Haven't even seen Geen Lantern or MoS, probably will skip out on this whole Bats Vs. Supes thing they're doing. But I would totally show up for a Wonder Woman solo effort. I know a lot of people see that as a bad thing and consider that behavior not indicative of a "true fan" but think of it this way.... What if you're not a fan of space operas, but you went to see GotG because you're an MCU fan? It's kind of like that, only in this case I'm a fan of "Normalizing The Image Of Female/Minority Super Heroes In The Public Consciousness".

Excluding the most pessimistic among us, I think that most of us cheer when we here that our favorite character is going to get put in a movie, don't we? Most of the time we don't react to the news with, "Oh, well, we shouldn't go an celebrate this guy just for making a movie out of Character X because the truth is that comic book movies have been popular for a decade now, and at this point Character X should have already had at least a trilogy." Instead we look at the positive - they are finally seeing the inherent coolness of Character X! - and applaud them for giving us this chance to see them on the big screen at last. Yeah, sure, we typically want to hear what they're doing with said character, we get more or less excited based on the people involved and any plot details that might get leaked, but unless something comes out that really curves our enthusiasm, I'd say most people's reaction is to give the studio a big old cheer because we understand that part of what they're looking for is the publicity that comes with people's excrement.

So I think it is perfectly appropriate to celebrate if it helps promote further diversity from studios. What I don't think is necessarily helpful, however, is turning it into a race for which company can release the first woman super hero or the first black super hero since that makes it seem as if we wouldn't reward similar efforts for different studios. Similarly, I don't see the point in adding stipulations like "she can't have been previously in another film!" I understand where these "conditions" come from: it makes it seem like studios are "afraid" of a character, it seems to minimize the importance of specific characters when other heroes get their own solo release titles, it paints the woman/minority character into the dreaded support role.... Still, I think a studio can still effectively utilize a character in a positive manner even in another hero's film, and if they actually use that movie as a proper launching pad to finally give us a true solo effort than I will support them all the same because the end result will still be a female led CBM.

Think of those demands for a Loki film or the suggestion that they spin-off Hawkeye or who wanted the Spider-Man/X-Men films to introduce characters like Venom/Gambit so that they could eventually have their own titles. Not everyone liked the idea but absolutely no one was saying, "Well, if they give Loki/Hawkeye/Venom/Gambit a film now it wouldn't really count since he's already been introduced in Thor/Avengers/Spider-Man/X-Men!" The idea that those movies wouldn't "count" is crazy! If you were to go into any of the threads were those possibilities were being discussed I think that the majority of posters, even the detractors, would question your logic. The responses would likely range from, "The whole idea is to introduce them to help create demand for their own movie!" to "That's just stupid. It would still be their own film, how would it not count?" Unfortunately, the truth is that when you're discussing female and minority characters, the standards are slightly different because they have to be. Because the industry - and, you know, society in general - has treated them in a specific manner for so long that you pretty much have to take their history of use into account when bringing them to the screen.

Right now, studios are in a position where "Super-White-Dude" properties seem like a sure way to profit to the point were continuing on that path can guarantee at least some level of success. They don't have to be adventurous and really have very little reason to unless we give them some, which means either:
1. Punishing studios by purposefully avoiding new releases until they give us a female/minority lead title.
2. Promoting and celebrating studios that move in a more positive reaction, which includes both financial as well as critical support (ie treating them as "heroes" for giving us more female/minority driven stories).

Personally, while I would absolutely love a Captain Marvel, Spider-Woman, She-Hulk or Black Widow film, I also rather enjoy the other Avengers titles and am looking forward to Dr. Strange and others, so it would kind of depress me if I had to start avoiding the MCU films. I would way rather reward them with ticket sales and promotional hype.

TL;DR: If it means more female/minority led titles I will get out my cheerleader skirt and lead the parade for any studio. Shamelessly.
 
I tend to think that WB is missing some easy money by not pursuing a Batgirl movie.

It is certainly looking like Sony, of all studios, is likely to get there first. However, I think "from the ground up" is kind of a meaningless distinction. A major solo film is a major solo film. Nobody knocks Wolverine because he spun off from the X-Men films.
 
You know, I think that (assuming it is a good movie) we kind of should. I mean, should it be enough for either company to only have one female-led movie when they have dozens of male-led titles? Should it be good enough for them to simply put a woman on the release rooster and assume that - crash or cash - that will tie over those fans demanding more female representation? No, of course not, and I personally would not accept a single female character as some sort of "appeasement". I want well written, fully developed and independent characters who are treated in an equal fashion to her male peers. That's plural.

However, honestly, I am all for rewarding studios by cheering on any effort to give female and minority characters equal screen time. I think there is a difference between celebrating them moving in a positive direction, and settling for any sort of "charity". Kevin Feige recently made a comment about how if Marvel were to make a Black Widow movie they wouldn't get "credit" for it, and that kind of made me wrinkle my nose. It shouldn't be about getting credit, this isn't a points game. It should be done because you have an interesting rooster of potential characters and you want to diversify your brand and, yes, I personally think you should do it just because it is a good thing to do. But because I honestly believe that - that producing more movies with super heroines (especially those accessible to young adults/teenagers, little girls and boys) - I am so willing to reward studios for their efforts.

They want some sort of cheer and applaud and attention? You know what, sure. I am of the mindset that we as a culture are so in need of more equality in all arenas and that mass media is a MAJOR player in people's perspective that I am willing to throw you guys a freaking parade if that's what it will take. Hell, I haven't seen a single DC movie in theaters since Batman Begins because, to be honest, I'm just not that interested in the vast majority of these characters. Haven't even seen Geen Lantern or MoS, probably will skip out on this whole Bats Vs. Supes thing they're doing. But I would totally show up for a Wonder Woman solo effort. I know a lot of people see that as a bad thing and consider that behavior not indicative of a "true fan" but think of it this way.... What if you're not a fan of space operas, but you went to see GotG because you're an MCU fan? It's kind of like that, only in this case I'm a fan of "Normalizing The Image Of Female/Minority Super Heroes In The Public Consciousness".

Excluding the most pessimistic among us, I think that most of us cheer when we here that our favorite character is going to get put in a movie, don't we? Most of the time we don't react to the news with, "Oh, well, we shouldn't go an celebrate this guy just for making a movie out of Character X because the truth is that comic book movies have been popular for a decade now, and at this point Character X should have already had at least a trilogy." Instead we look at the positive - they are finally seeing the inherent coolness of Character X! - and applaud them for giving us this chance to see them on the big screen at last. Yeah, sure, we typically want to hear what they're doing with said character, we get more or less excited based on the people involved and any plot details that might get leaked, but unless something comes out that really curves our enthusiasm, I'd say most people's reaction is to give the studio a big old cheer because we understand that part of what they're looking for is the publicity that comes with people's excrement.

So I think it is perfectly appropriate to celebrate if it helps promote further diversity from studios. What I don't think is necessarily helpful, however, is turning it into a race for which company can release the first woman super hero or the first black super hero since that makes it seem as if we wouldn't reward similar efforts for different studios. Similarly, I don't see the point in adding stipulations like "she can't have been previously in another film!" I understand where these "conditions" come from: it makes it seem like studios are "afraid" of a character, it seems to minimize the importance of specific characters when other heroes get their own solo release titles, it paints the woman/minority character into the dreaded support role.... Still, I think a studio can still effectively utilize a character in a positive manner even in another hero's film, and if they actually use that movie as a proper launching pad to finally give us a true solo effort than I will support them all the same because the end result will still be a female led CBM.

Think of those demands for a Loki film or the suggestion that they spin-off Hawkeye or who wanted the Spider-Man/X-Men films to introduce characters like Venom/Gambit so that they could eventually have their own titles. Not everyone liked the idea but absolutely no one was saying, "Well, if they give Loki/Hawkeye/Venom/Gambit a film now it wouldn't really count since he's already been introduced in Thor/Avengers/Spider-Man/X-Men!" The idea that those movies wouldn't "count" is crazy! If you were to go into any of the threads were those possibilities were being discussed I think that the majority of posters, even the detractors, would question your logic. The responses would likely range from, "The whole idea is to introduce them to help create demand for their own movie!" to "That's just stupid. It would still be their own film, how would it not count?" Unfortunately, the truth is that when you're discussing female and minority characters, the standards are slightly different because they have to be. Because the industry - and, you know, society in general - has treated them in a specific manner for so long that you pretty much have to take their history of use into account when bringing them to the screen.

Right now, studios are in a position where "Super-White-Dude" properties seem like a sure way to profit to the point were continuing on that path can guarantee at least some level of success. They don't have to be adventurous and really have very little reason to unless we give them some, which means either:
1. Punishing studios by purposefully avoiding new releases until they give us a female/minority lead title.
2. Promoting and celebrating studios that move in a more positive reaction, which includes both financial as well as critical support (ie treating them as "heroes" for giving us more female/minority driven stories).

Personally, while I would absolutely love a Captain Marvel, Spider-Woman, She-Hulk or Black Widow film, I also rather enjoy the other Avengers titles and am looking forward to Dr. Strange and others, so it would kind of depress me if I had to start avoiding the MCU films. I would way rather reward them with ticket sales and promotional hype.

TL;DR: If it means more female/minority led titles I will get out my cheerleader skirt and lead the parade for any studio. Shamelessly.

There needs to be a forum function that if somebody writes a very competent reply to a post you hardly remember writing you receive a notification.

ETA: Now that I've read your post, well done.

I'll watch any movie that's good, particularly if it has an unconventional lead. I think it's important to diversify character representations. With that said, comments like those of Feige disappoint and repel me. I have this image in my head, where after releasing 15 or 16 movies with a white-male lead he releases a Captain Marvel movie with a female lead, and he's then branded a hero all over the internet, and he gets awards form feminist organisations. I see this and I'm repelled.

At this point, creating a movie with a white female lead has stopped being experimental. In the past few years we've seen enormous successes from Hunger Games, Hunger Games 2, Gravity, and Frozen. The ice is broken now. With respect to blacks, "Hancock" grossed as much as Man of Steel, Thor 2, and Guardians of the Galaxy. It was also a better movie.

I'll restrict and target my cheering to the people who made those movies, who were first in line. If Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman turns out to be actually good, I'll restrict my cheering to the screenwriter, director, actress, etc.
 
Last edited:
There needs to be a forum function that if somebody writes a very competent reply to a post you hardly remember writing you receive a notification.

ETA: Now that I've read your post, well done.

I'll watch any movie that's good, particularly if it has an unconventional lead. I think it's important to diversify character representations. With that said, comments like those of Feige disappoint and repel me. I have this image in my head, where after releasing 15 or 16 movies with a white-male lead he releases a Captain Marvel movie with a female lead, and he's then branded a hero all over the internet, and he gets awards form feminist organisations. I see this and I'm repelled.

At this point, creating a movie with a white female lead has stopped being experimental. In the past few years we've seen enormous successes from Hunger Games, Hunger Games 2, Gravity, and Frozen. The ice is broken now. With respect to blacks, "Hancock" grossed as much as Man of Steel, Thor 2, and Guardians of the Galaxy. It was also a better movie.

I'll restrict and target my cheering to the people who made those movies, who were first in line. If Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman turns out to be actually good, I'll restrict my cheering to the screenwriter, director, actress, etc.

Sorry... I should totally pay more attention to post dates.

Also, just to be clear, I totally get why you or anyone else would feel that way. I have to believe that Marvel or another company would make a female-led movie for more than just "credit" and I had a similar reaction to Feige's comment; I don't want to encourage that kind of thinking, but I do want to encourage studios to be more diverse with their super hero leads and I just hope I can find some way to do both but this may be unrealistically optimistic.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,559
Messages
21,759,833
Members
45,597
Latest member
Netizen95
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"