Studios affraid of a solo female centered comic film?

[DrCosmic]

In theory Hunger Games should have been proof enough, but the argument is always going to be that series had a big reading fan base to ensure it was going to be a success.

I agree, but I think even amongst more savvy filmmakers, there's an understanding that Hunger Games contains appealing elements that female superheroes don't have.

 

[jmc]

Thing about Hunger Games is that it wasn't treated as a female action film, none of this 'rah, rah, kick the dudes arse, girl power, sisterhood unite' BS, it was very much an action that just happened to have a female lead. I think that's what all the best action films with women leads have in common.

 

[Chewy]

Salt and Hunger Games had plot-crucial romantic storylines. That's what's being advocated. Aliens, and other Stoic Action Woman movies put their heroine on action teams so they can have this sort of vicarious emoting, an idea that doesn't work for most superheroines... well it works, that's what the New52 Diana is doing, I just don't like it.

I think the notion of putting in a woman capable of having a healthy relationship with a man, who wants to do so, is a very relatable idea. It doesn't have to be rom-com, or even have a happy ending (see: Salt, Hunger Games) but this Stoic Action Girl alternative comes with certain things in order to work that I don't want for my favorite superheroines like Wonder Woman, and Ms. Marvel.

Well yeah, almost every superhero film has a plot-crucial romantic storyline. That's just a part of the human condition that these films try to emulate, not really gender-specific.

Also the central relationship in Aliens was the vicarious mother-daughter one with Newt.

 

[Red Mask]

But some girls buy action figures to these superhero films. If the same girls who dont buy superhero toys dont buy Wonder Woman, but the same boys and girls who buy toys for Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and the other heroes that have been (re)introduced in live action films, then Wonder Woman will have no problem with merchandise.

What you're saying is the number of merchandise that will sell for a Wonder Woman movie will be no different than what we have now without one. That could go badly to the people who are trying to get a film greenlit by WB.

 

[LauraT]

as I said, you need to focus on making a movie about a superheroine a chick flick instead

They already tried that, it's called "My Super Ex Girlfriend" and it wasn't great to put it mildly, nor was it sucessful. Hancock is better but that's mostly because of Will Smith.

I recently saw the animated Wonder Woman movie and it was pretty good. Using that storyline as a basis has possibilities, in some places it was surprisingly layered about WW issues.

 

[Red Mask]

I recently saw the animated Wonder Woman movie and it was pretty good. Using that storyline as a basis has possibilities, in some places it was surprisingly layered about WW issues.

But it was also pushing it. That Diana and her Amazons had no sense of grace.

 

[az824]

I think part of the problem with most super heroine flicks is that theres an oversexualization of the leads. Even of guys are turned on, we realize it's degrading and I don't think we take them seriously. And of course the oversexualization obviously is a huge turn off to women. I think for a super heroine flick to be successful it needs to tone down the sexiness and bring out the feminine attributes that make her strong. If you want a WW or ms marvel film to appeal to women, she has to be like a woman, a strong determined woman (ie katniss) but bring in action and story for the guys. It has to be well balanced, otherwise it's not going to work. It can't be another girl in tight outfit beating up everything in her way

 

[Superman Lives]

I wonder if Hunger Games would have been as marketable if it was called "Arrow Girl" or something like that, emphasizing the lead. Wonder Woman would be a really tough one to do.

Black Widow is probably the best and only chance for a successful one right now. I would watch it.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree, but I think even amongst more savvy filmmakers, there's an understanding that Hunger Games contains appealing elements that female superheroes don't have.

The Hunger Games is not based on a comic-book. Its based on a book series like Harry Potter and the Twilight Saga. Katniss is not even a superhero.

 

[Jordacar]

Even if a Wonder Woman movie got made, it still probably wouldn't change anything. People would point to it and go "Look how successful Wonder Woman was!" only to hear, "Pfft, of course she was successful, everyone knows who Wonder Woman is!"

 

[Slushy]

A sequel to V For Vendetta with Natalie Portman would've been awesome.

 

[baerrtt]

I think Black Widow and Catwoman work respectively well in THE AVENGERS and TDKR because both movies are delivered by writer/directors who ultimately aren't preoccupied with the 'sex sells' type of filmmaking that seeps into the works of Bay, Ratner, Snyder, McG, even JJ Abrams at times.

Yes the sexy costumes and great looking actressess in Scarlett and Anne are present and correct but once the introductions are out of the way Whedon and Nolan, as always, are genuinely interested in alot more when it comes to a character than their surface appearance. If comic book superheroine movies are to work on a level of quality first rather than box office we have to all hope they are given to directors, male or female, who do their best to override the 'they're sexy and that's all there is to them' stigma they have always had.

 

[TheInvisibleMan]

it's not that studios are AFRAID (Look at Resident Evil), studios just don't want to make a sizable investment (like the $150 + mil a Wonder Woman movie could cost)

 

[Lorus]

When I look at the list of fan favorite actresses: Bridget Reagan, Lynda Collins, Yvonne Strahovski, and others, I see a list of women that can't headline a major blockbuster in their best dreams. It seems like a very sound generalization to me. And again, criticism of these female characters' apperances is is widespread, reaching far beyond comic boards, unlike any hate for Ledger or Evans or Ruffalo. It's not equal.

What do you think makes them unable to headline a blockbuster? If you think they lack the talent then I would maintain that it's an odd generalisation. That said, I'm not aware of much of the above actresses' work so I won't really press the issue. Going for an unknown though may be the best option, Hemsworth was able to star in Thor and make an acceptable profit.

The appearance of characters, in terms of costumes, can be worked around by altering them so they are more conservative, which would only raise the ire of comic fans who will always complain about something. The alternative is to take a costume, adapt it faithfully and let the criticism come on the assumption that the product silences the claims of sexism. This essentially happened with Avengers and TDKR this year. It comes down to one success, I think, and if one female fronted comic film were a success then others would follow. I think critics and the general audience do recognise when a character is done well, even if the costume, out of context, seems overly exploitative.

He addresses this much better than I. This is part of the reason that superheroine CBMs have sucked, it's hard to faithfully adapt a bad story into a good one. You can't 'eliminate gender as a concern' while adapting stories from the comics that are so gender-biased. It's like quoting Rush Limbaugh without being racist. Nice idea, not really practical. By the way, femininity is "a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with girls and women." I'm not sure why my personal opinion on the matter is relevant to the discussion.

I'm sure that there are some stories that are good that could be adapted, I refuse to believe that there are no suitable stories in all of comicsdom. In terms of these stories being gender biased, I've read stories with female characters that are not gender biased at all. I'd argue many modern stories are driven by factors that aren't related to gender, or could very easily be tweaked so they weren't. The new 52 Wonder Woman, again, has a clear narrative that allows gender to be eliminated as a concern. It's one of siblings fighting over a throne and family.

I asked about the feminine issues because you occasionally see female characters criticised for not being feminine for whatever reason which is a complaint I can't understand. There are obviously traits associated with femininity but they certainly don't define what it is to be a woman. From an egalitarian perspective, the experience you want to capture with a film is a human one, gender is a largely an arbitrary barrier in my eyes. If you were to swap the genders of all the best comic films, you wouldn't have a problem, hence my attitude that gender should not be considered.

Well, I'm not overly impressed with the RE movies, I just know that they keep making them, so they must be doing something right. It also shows, imho, that starting with a low budget, leads to more of the same, not a jump in budget if the first few low budget films do well.

The Resident Evil films don't make huge amounts of money do they? I was under the impression that the reason the budgets remain fairly small is because they can't recoup larger numbers. If such a film were to make an impressive profit from a lower budget, I'm sure the budget for future films would increase.

While Black Widow (and Alice) aren't absolutely emotionless, I was referring to her being the Stoic personality type. Compared to her male co-stars, she was the most about-business and the least emotive. All emotions stay buried deep under the surface, incapable of being expressed verbally. Writing these kinds of 'broken' women is relatively easy in comparison with writing a more emotive woman who is still strong and likeable. Alice, any of Summer Glau's characters, Ripley, to an extent. Even Wondy's current run in comics has a bit of this. She shows her emotions entirely by the actions she chooses to undertake, but she doesn't have a whole lot to say, as far as I've read. Often, other characters are filling us in on what she's feeling and thinking. Compare this with the idea of a woman who is normal until superpowers enter her life. Not my favorite interpretation either but I agree with you that it is the most likely to be made into a film.

The stoic character type only really comes across as the least emotive in the context of an ensemble. Bruce Wayne is very much the same type of character and films can be made about him very easily in which he expresses emotions and is strong and likeable. This probably wouldn't be the best course for Wonder Woman specifically, true, but something like a Black Widow film could be very well done.

The 'every man' archetype is rarer for female characters, admittedly, but that's not the approach for Wonder Woman either, a film with similarities to Thor though (no real origin, just adventure within a fantasy land, maybe incorporating modern society) could be fairly easily done. I think it would come down to having a strong central character arc, with Thor it was about learning humility but for Wonder Woman it could be a Superman-esque idea about when to interfere in normal affairs or something.

 

[TheInvisibleMan]

The Resident Evil films don't make huge amounts of money do they? I was under the impression that the reason the budgets remain fairly small is because they can't recoup larger numbers. If such a film were to make an impressive profit from a lower budget, I'm sure the budget for future films would increase.

they do OK...its not turning the world on its ear numbers, but its a nice tidy profit

 

[KingMadness]

I think you can go after both a female and male demographic with Wonder Woman.

Girls get to live out their fantasy of being a princess, but also get a strong female role model that tells them that they can do or be anything they want.

Men get to see the action, and between all of the Amazons and Wonder Woman, they get tons of eye candy especially if someone super hot is cast as Wonder Woman, like Bridget Regan.

 

[cherokeesam]

I think you can go after both a female and male demographic with Wonder Woman.

Girls get to live out their fantasy of being a princess, but also get a strong female role model that tells them that they can do or be anything they want.

Men get to see the action, and between all of the Amazons and Wonder Woman, they get tons of eye candy especially if someone super hot is cast as Wonder Woman, like Bridget Regan.

...How did you accidentally include the words "Bridget" and "Regan" in the same sentence as "eye candy, super hot," and "Wonder Woman"....? That's a heckuva typo, man

 

[baerrtt]

What do you think makes them unable to headline a blockbuster? If you think they lack the talent then I would maintain that it's an odd generalisation. That said, I'm not aware of much of the above actresses' work so I won't really press the issue. Going for an unknown though may be the best option, Hemsworth was able to star in Thor and make an acceptable profit.

The appearance of characters, in terms of costumes, can be worked around by altering them so they are more conservative, which would only raise the ire of comic fans who will always complain about something. The alternative is to take a costume, adapt it faithfully and let the criticism come on the assumption that the product silences the claims of sexism. This essentially happened with Avengers and TDKR this year. It comes down to one success, I think, and if one female fronted comic film were a success then others would follow. I think critics and the general audience do recognise when a character is done well, even if the costume, out of context, seems overly exploitative.



I'm sure that there are some stories that are good that could be adapted, I refuse to believe that there are no suitable stories in all of comicsdom. In terms of these stories being gender biased, I've read stories with female characters that are not gender biased at all. I'd argue many modern stories are driven by factors that aren't related to gender, or could very easily be tweaked so they weren't. The new 52 Wonder Woman, again, has a clear narrative that allows gender to be eliminated as a concern. It's one of siblings fighting over a throne and family.

I asked about the feminine issues because you occasionally see female characters criticised for not being feminine for whatever reason which is a complaint I can't understand. There are obviously traits associated with femininity but they certainly don't define what it is to be a woman. From an egalitarian perspective, the experience you want to capture with a film is a human one, gender is a largely an arbitrary barrier in my eyes. If you were to swap the genders of all the best comic films, you wouldn't have a problem, hence my attitude that gender should not be considered.




The Resident Evil films don't make huge amounts of money do they? I was under the impression that the reason the budgets remain fairly small is because they can't recoup larger numbers. If such a film were to make an impressive profit from a lower budget, I'm sure the budget for future films would increase.



The stoic character type only really comes across as the least emotive in the context of an ensemble. Bruce Wayne is very much the same type of character and films can be made about him very easily in which he expresses emotions and is strong and likeable. This probably wouldn't be the best course for Wonder Woman specifically, true, but something like a Black Widow film could be very well done.

The 'every man' archetype is rarer for female characters, admittedly, but that's not the approach for Wonder Woman either, a film with similarities to Thor though (no real origin, just adventure within a fantasy land, maybe incorporating modern society) could be fairly easily done. I think it would come down to having a strong central character arc, with Thor it was about learning humility but for Wonder Woman it could be a Superman-esque idea about when to interfere in normal affairs or something.

I think what is being inferred here is that due to double standards some studios are far less likely to greenlight a huge budgeted blockbuster, based on material they're evidently unsure about box office wise, starring an unknown actress...or even some known ones.

It's not a superhero movie but look at the casting nonsense that erupted around GRAVITY the WB sci-fi picture starring Sandra Bullock as an example. When original choice, Angelina Jolie, hopped off the picture the moment it changed studio hands the shortlist featured many known actresses up for the lead role with Cuaron, the director, offering to trim the $80 million budget down so he could cast Rachel Weisz in the part. The studio wouldn't take and Bullock ended up with the role for no other reason than the studio wanted the 'box office insurance' that they felt none of the other choices had. Honestly if we were getting a WW movie off the blocks now they would, I suspect, approach the few young bankable actresses (Jennifer Lawrence, Kristin Stewart) aggressively and exclusively.

 

[KingMadness]

...How did you accidentally include the words "Bridget" and "Regan" in the same sentence as "eye candy, super hot," and "Wonder Woman"....? That's a heckuva typo, man

Bridget Regan has been critically acclaimed for playing the tough, capable, fighting confessor in Legend of the Seeker, she would make a good Wonder Woman. Bridget Regan is also one of the hottest women on the planet. I'm not sure what your problem is.

 

[cherokeesam]

Bridget Regan has been critically acclaimed for playing the tough, capable, fighting confessor in Legend of the Seeker, she would make a good Wonder Woman. Bridget Regan is also one of the hottest women on the planet. I'm not sure what your problem is.

My "problem" is that I've got actual eyes to see, and I recognize fugly when I sees it. Also, LOLOLOL at anyone bringing up an obscure ABC Family kiddie show on their resume that lasted all of two dismal seasons to "qualify" them to play an international pop culture icon.

 

[American_Hobo]

Only conclusion I can come up with it that female superheroes are just not good enough.

 

[cherokeesam]

Only conclusion I can come up with it that female superheroes are just not good enough.

Hey, if Warners wants to make a mint off Wonder Woman, they need to cast Katie Holmes right now. The media and virtually the entire world's female population would explode.

 

[MadVillainy]

Those reasons for casting Katie Holmes make no sense.

I'm really surprised about many people's thinking in this thread.

 

[CoolCadaver49]

If that happened, I would puke in my mouth. Then I would dump the contents of my mouth into a manilla envelope and send it to Warner Bros. And I'm not even really a Wonder-Woman fan.

If a good solo female superhero film is ever going to be made (which it should) somebody is going to have to bite the bullet and take a risk. Make a good movie even if it's not going to rupture the box office. Casting a lady as Wonder-Woman for a solo movie for their sex-appeal or star power is just going to exacerbate things for female superheroes and female action heroes in general.

I seriously hope you're either being sarcastic, or are expressing just how little faith you have in WB, or studios in general (if the latter is the case, I can't say that I blame you...).

 

[cherokeesam]

If that happened, I would puke in my mouth. Then I would dump the contents of my mouth into a manilla envelope and send it to Warner Bros. And I'm not even really a Wonder-Woman fan.

If a good solo female superhero film is ever going to be made (which it should) somebody is going to have to bite the bullet and take a risk. Make a good movie even if it's not going to rupture the box office. Casting a lady as Wonder-Woman for a solo movie for their sex-appeal or star power is just going to exacerbate things for female superheroes and female action heroes in general.

I seriously hope you're either being sarcastic, or are expressing just how little faith you have in WB, or studios in general (if the latter is the case, I can't say that I blame you...).

I'm only being halfway sarcastic.

Right now, Katie Holmes is everyone's darling, especially the media's. They look at her as a genuine superhero, who escaped a cult and a powerful domineering husband and is now a proud single mom who's raising her little daughter up to be a good upstanding Christian. Now, regardless of your own views of the "Tomkat" situation, or mine, that's the way the media is presenting it, and god knows that's the way all the female-focused media outlets are presenting it. And from what I can see of women's opinions of Katie, it's a very, very popular opinion.

So, would Katie make a good Wonder Woman? Maybe, maybe not; ymmv. Can she act her way out of a paper bag? Probably not; ymmv. Is she a hero for "escaping" the clutches of the "evil" Tom Cruise...? Maybe; ymmv; but the world seems to think so. So would WB make an absolute fortune if they put Katie in the WW costume, regardless of how good the movie actually turned out to be....? Hell freakin' yes. Without question.