Studios affraid of a solo female centered comic film?

[RockSP]

Part of the problem is that many female superheroes are not A listers with their own comics. Mostly, however, I think its an all around Hollywood bias against films with female leads.

I would think more the latter than the former. The general audience doesn't care if a character comes from a comic or not.

 

[cherokeesam]

I would think more the latter than the former. The general audience doesn't care if a character comes from a comic or not.

Exactly.
There's plenty of actresses who can command big box office; it's just not the kind of box office (or audience) that us comic book geeks are used to. Jennifer Aniston, Julia Roberts, Meryl Streep, Kristen Wiig, Jessica Chastain, Sarah Jessica Parker, Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore, Kristen Stewart, Katherine Heigl, Sandra Bullock....do women flock to chick flicks starring these women? Hell yes. Do comic book geeks flock to them? Hell no.

So the *first* thing that guys (here in this forum, and in fandom in general, and most importantly, at WB studios) need to do is to change the way they look at this. Think: chick flick. A flick about a chick, *for* chicks, has to be approached very differently than an action flick. Think about what WOMEN want to see in a movie, and put THAT in Wonder Woman (or Ms. Marvel, or whomever), and you're on the right path.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think you're trivializing something that many talented writers have shown to be quite challenging. The number of people who have failed to make Diana these three things is immense, and reads like a who's who at times, and the number of people who have ever succeeded is short and arguable. Yes, if they make a good film, it'll be a good film, but a lot of people have tried to make good superheroine films, and they haven't done well as of yet. That should be looked at if we're trying to figure out why studios are so skittish. It can't just be a bunch of coincidences.

How am I trivializing it? I'm not saying it's easy or not important, I'm just saying it's waht they should do and focus on rather than worry about making Wonder Woman or other females an icon for females.

Most girls don't buy the merchandise that come from badass films. Fun films, yeah, but not badass.

But some girls buy action figures to these superhero films. If the same girls who dont buy superhero toys dont buy Wonder Woman, but the same boys and girls who buy toys for Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and the other heroes that have been (re)introduced in live action films, then Wonder Woman will have no problem with merchandise.

 

[Lord]

Isn't Wonder Woman already an icon for females? I mean, most of them don't even know her history but she's known by many, and she's kind of the character that i see that many of them are more looking forward to be made into a live-ction film. Which makes sence, Thor wasn't exactly a girls film but it atracted much female audience.

This time you have a female main character and is already iconic, many girls are going to watch it and the fact that it will obviously have action will also atract male audience. I don't see how making her like Katniss would make fans angry, just don't make her a killer and give her some of the naive qualities of her character in the comics and there you have it.

One problem with Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman script was that he was going to use an original villain, while i haven't read that many wonder woman comics from a quick search Ares and Circe could actually be interesting characters, aparently Cheetah is her nemesis, but to tell the truth i think these 2 can hold a movie better than a character that seems like she was supposed to have been forgoten during the silver age, Circe aparently can transform humans, so that's the best way to go if they ever want to use Cheetah.

 

[DrCosmic]

Exactly.
There's plenty of actresses who can command big box office; it's just not the kind of box office (or audience) that us comic book geeks are used to. Jennifer Aniston, Julia Roberts, Meryl Streep, Kristen Wiig, Jessica Chastain, Sarah Jessica Parker, Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore, Kristen Stewart, Katherine Heigl, Sandra Bullock....do women flock to chick flicks starring these women? Hell yes. Do comic book geeks flock to them? Hell no.

So the *first* thing that guys (here in this forum, and in fandom in general, and most importantly, at WB studios) need to do is to change the way they look at this. Think: chick flick. A flick about a chick, *for* chicks, has to be approached very differently than an action flick. Think about what WOMEN want to see in a movie, and put THAT in Wonder Woman (or Ms. Marvel, or whomever), and you're on the right path.

I agree, but I also think this being the proper approach is why comics fans would gripe at a good superheroine movie, and why MS can't find "The right actress" for Ms. Marvel. The women that can do it would be panned by fans, and the women that wouldn't be panned by fans can't do it.

How am I trivializing it? I'm not saying it's easy or not important, I'm just saying it's waht they should do and focus on rather than worry about making Wonder Woman or other females an icon for females.

When you put it as "just do X," I interpret that as you saying its easy. I agree that those are the priorities, but when you make someone likeable, that comes with a "I want to be like them" effect. That's the hardest part to lock down on a female action character, imho, and it's so important and so difficult saying just do it is, to me, a lot like saying 'just make a good movie, and it will be a good movie' which is certainly true, but I don't think it really addresses the issue.

Isn't Wonder Woman already an icon for females? I mean, most of them don't even know her history but she's known by many, and she's kind of the character that i see that many of them are more looking forward to be made into a live-ction film. Which makes sence, Thor wasn't exactly a girls film but it atracted much female audience.

This time you have a female main character and is already iconic, many girls are going to watch it and the fact that it will obviously have action will also atract male audience. I don't see how making her like Katniss would make fans angry, just don't make her a killer and give her some of the naive qualities of her character in the comics and there you have it.

One problem with Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman script was that he was going to use an original villain, while i haven't read that many wonder woman comics from a quick search Ares and Circe could actually be interesting characters, aparently Cheetah is her nemesis, but to tell the truth i think these 2 can hold a movie better than a character that seems like she was supposed to have been forgoten during the silver age, Circe aparently can transform humans, so that's the best way to go if they ever want to use Cheetah.

I gotta step in to defend Whedon- no one who's read the script reported it as being anything less than awesome. Even the execs who rejected it never said anything about it whatsoever, even to say 'no.'

But back on the topic, the underlined are pretty big parts of her comics charaterizations, and Katniss, with important male relationships flies in the face of what many believe Wonder Woman is supposed to represent. She's already an icon, sure, like Superman, but that didn't make Superman Returns a good film, or make Superman likeable.

But what constitutes a good Wonder Woman movie? Resident Evil started from a horror video game that has zombies. Should we see Wonder Woman fight the same monsters we've seen already in Clash of the Titans and Wrath of the Titans?

Exactly. And from what I've seen Alice doesn't have much characterization, and her, and the whole franchise's likeability seems to stem from her having a very potent action supporting cast. I don't think Wonder Woman can work like that, emotionless, like Avengers' Black Widow or even RE's Alice because she doesn't have the emotional trauma for us to connect to like they do. When they try to give her the emotional trauma, by killing off Amazons or destroying Themyscira, it comes off as a big misogyny party.

I agree, using RE as a standard for a Wonder Woman would be a pretty bad idea. Or a Ms. Marvel film, or a Supergirl film, or... well, you get the idea. It'd be perfect for a Black Widow film, this femme fatale all business, some shadow in her past, a big bad bad guy, some supporting heroes that can do the emoting necessary to make a movie interesting, but she's still the #1 hero. That can work, and I think it'd be pretty successful, and perhaps even the best bet. I don't think, however, that Marvel Studios has that as a priority... why is that? Hmmm...

 

[baerrtt]

As others have stated here the problem IS the source material. As long as female comic book superheroes are continually visually depicted in terms that supersedes their characterisations studios are not going to take adapting their stories seriously.

We live in a world where actors such as Michael Keaton, Tobey Maguire, Ron Perlman and Mark Ruffalo have all successfully portrayed superheroes, where the successful launching point for the Marvel movie universe, IRON MAN, saw the title character played by a, then, non bankable actor in his early 40s in RDJ. And the key to those successful movies was the fact that none of those actors fitted into the CW mold of being young or young looking (especially in Downey and Perlman's case) or pretty (aside from Downey of course LOL). The mold that Hollywood demands of it's female stars unless they're Meryl Streep. Now try to imagine ANY comic book superheroine being cast using the above criteria. A wide variety of ppl can relate to characters like Bats, Spidey, IM or the Hulk on the big screen because, IMO, of casting actors that suggest that ANYONE in the audience can be them.

 

[Lorus]

I agree, but I also think this being the proper approach is why comics fans would gripe at a good superheroine movie, and why MS can't find "The right actress" for Ms. Marvel. The women that can do it would be panned by fans, and the women that wouldn't be panned by fans can't do it.

Fan reaction is almost always overblown but it tends to dissipate very quickly once the film actually comes out. This is the same for male roles, Chris Evans was decried by many beforehand and the savage vitriol aimed at Mark Ruffalo was astonishing. Heath Ledger is also the classic example. I'm not sure what you mean by saying the women fans want couldn't do it, that seems an odd generalisation.

When you put it as "just do X," I interpret that as you saying its easy. I agree that those are the priorities, but when you make someone likeable, that comes with a "I want to be like them" effect. That's the hardest part to lock down on a female action character, imho, and it's so important and so difficult saying just do it is, to me, a lot like saying 'just make a good movie, and it will be a good movie' which is certainly true, but I don't think it really addresses the issue.

What do you think counts as 'feminine', for the record? It seems to me that surely the best way to look at things is to eliminate gender as any concern, just make the film by adapting the elements of the comics that the filmmakers think are best as you would with a male character. Men and women can both look up to and relate to characters of the other gender.

Exactly. And from what I've seen Alice doesn't have much characterization, and her, and the whole franchise's likeability seems to stem from her having a very potent action supporting cast. I don't think Wonder Woman can work like that, emotionless, like Avengers' Black Widow or even RE's Alice because she doesn't have the emotional trauma for us to connect to like they do. When they try to give her the emotional trauma, by killing off Amazons or destroying Themyscira, it comes off as a big misogyny party.

I agree, using RE as a standard for a Wonder Woman would be a pretty bad idea. Or a Ms. Marvel film, or a Supergirl film, or... well, you get the idea. It'd be perfect for a Black Widow film, this femme fatale all business, some shadow in her past, a big bad bad guy, some supporting heroes that can do the emoting necessary to make a movie interesting, but she's still the #1 hero. That can work, and I think it'd be pretty successful, and perhaps even the best bet. I don't think, however, that Marvel Studios has that as a priority... why is that? Hmmm...

I don't think the Resident Evil movies are really good examples of templates because they aren't particularly good at all. On a slightly different note, I'd disagree that Black Widow was emotionless at all in the Avengers and I doubt Alice is supposed to come off as emotionless, it's just the films are badly written.

Wonder Woman could be adapted as per the current run in the comics. Essentially, make the supporting cast Zeus' extended family and build the traumas or drama around the politics of the Olympian throne. It's not my favourite idea for adapting the property, but it could certainly work. The biggest obstacle to these films getting made is all about bottom line.

I really don't think it's due to creative reasons. Studio heads will pin the failures of female driven comic films on the gender of the star and the success of things like The Hunger Games on the fact that it's from a popular series of teenage books. The studios will probably need to start with a lower budget film so they have less at stake and work up the budget if the film succeeds.

 

[Lord]

I gotta step in to defend Whedon- no one who's read the script reported it as being anything less than awesome. Even the execs who rejected it never said anything about it whatsoever, even to say 'no.'

But back on the topic, the underlined are pretty big parts of her comics charaterizations, and Katniss, with important male relationships flies in the face of what many believe Wonder Woman is supposed to represent. She's already an icon, sure, like Superman, but that didn't make Superman Returns a good film, or make Superman likeable.

Yeah, we don't know anything about Whedon's script but he didn't leave because the studio regected him, he left because he felt that the studio wasn't confident in him or the property.

I have to disagree with Superman Returns,it was boring but it wasn't bad, rotten tomatoes and top critics allways put it in the 70s %, and it still made a lot of money, just not enough, which makes sence, because it was a tribute to a film made in the 70s, and didn't have any action between super powered people. When it was released i was more of a Spider-Man and Batman fan so i didn't see it because i found the character boring (i now know more of course t but still it made a lot more than i thought it would, it didn't make more because word of mouth wasn't very positive, if Superman Returns had more action and was something original instead of trying to be a sequel Superman II it probably would have made much more money and the character would have been more likeable.

I don't know if you're agreeing or not with me of how Wonder Woman should be portrayed t:, not killing was allways something important that made part of the character like it allways made part o Superman and Batman, but some writers like to change this just because she's an amazon and show her as an angry agressive godess.

 

[RockSP]

As others have stated here the problem IS the source material. As long as female comic book superheroes are continually visually depicted in terms that supersedes their characterisations studios are not going to take adapting their stories seriously.

We live in a world where actors such as Michael Keaton, Tobey Maguire, Ron Perlman and Mark Ruffalo have all successfully portrayed superheroes, where the successful launching point for the Marvel movie universe, IRON MAN, saw the title character played by a, then, non bankable actor in his early 40s in RDJ. And the key to those successful movies was the fact that none of those actors fitted into the CW mold of being young or young looking (especially in Downey and Perlman's case) or pretty (aside from Downey of course LOL). The mold that Hollywood demands of it's female stars unless they're Meryl Streep. Now try to imagine ANY comic book superheroine being cast using the above criteria. A wide variety of ppl can relate to characters like Bats, Spidey, IM or the Hulk on the big screen because, IMO, of casting actors that suggest that ANYONE in the audience can be them.

I kinda get where you are coming from, though I don't agree that the age of the male actors was "the key" to their movies being successful (especially Perlman whose age is totally concealed in Hellboy lol).

 

[MadVillainy]

Wonder Woman is from a warrior upbringing so I wouldnt mind her killing when she has to

 

[baerrtt]

I kinda get where you are coming from, though I don't agree that the age of the male actors was "the key" to their movies being successful (especially Perlman whose age is totally concealed in Hellboy lol).

Not age per se but the fact that they were all unconventional choices in some shape or form. When it comes to leading ladies nowadays Hollywood doesn't do 'unconventional' and certainly can't with characters (female superheroes) that as far as the general public are concerned are all about their looks. Where are the female equivalents of Peter Parker or Bruce Banner both characterised as nerdy science boffin types even after they get their powers that allow directors or studios to consider a wider spectrum of actressess that could sell the idea that a female comic book hero movie is going to be more than just cynical ***** fodder for the guys?

 

[cherokeesam]

Not age per se but the fact that they were all unconventional choices in some shape or form. When it comes to leading ladies nowadays Hollywood doesn't do 'unconventional' and certainly can't with characters (female superheroes) that as far as the general public are concerned are all about their looks. Where are the female equivalents of Peter Parker or Bruce Banner both characterised as nerdy science boffin types even after they get their powers that allow directors or studios to consider a wider spectrum of actressess that could sell the idea that a female comic book hero movie is going to be more than just cynical ***** fodder for the guys?

That's why taking the comic-book approach to superheroines will never work. Hollywood has tried that: there's plenty of examples of hot 'n' sexy superheroine/action heroine types out there that never became true blockbuster franchises --- Kill Bill, Underworld, Salt, Resident Evil, Miss Congeniality, Thelma and Louise, Catwoman, Colombiana, Sucker Punch, Aeon Flux, Elektra, Chun-Li, Red Sonja, Sheena, La Femme Nikita, and Barb Wire. Lara Croft is the only one who had any real success, but the dropoff in b.o. from her first to her sequel was massive.

That's because guys don't go to movies about hot action chicks, and women don't go to movies about hot action chicks. That leaves superheroines in a bind....they either need to be part of a group or someone else's story; or else, as I said, you need to focus on making a movie about a superheroine a chick flick instead. Re-imagine Titanic, Bridesmaids, The Help, Ghost, Sex and the City, Pretty Woman, Twilight, Terms of Endearment, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, The Princess Diaries, Legally Blonde, or Thelma and Louise, only with superheroines, and you've got a formula that can work.

 

[DrCosmic]

Fan reaction is almost always overblown but it tends to dissipate very quickly once the film actually comes out. This is the same for male roles, Chris Evans was decried by many beforehand and the savage vitriol aimed at Mark Ruffalo was astonishing. Heath Ledger is also the classic example. I'm not sure what you mean by saying the women fans want couldn't do it, that seems an odd generalisation.

When I look at the list of fan favorite actresses: Bridget Reagan, Lynda Collins, Yvonne Strahovski, and others, I see a list of women that can't headline a major blockbuster in their best dreams. It seems like a very sound generalization to me. And again, criticism of these female characters' apperances is is widespread, reaching far beyond comic boards, unlike any hate for Ledger or Evans or Ruffalo. It's not equal.

What do you think counts as 'feminine', for the record? It seems to me that surely the best way to look at things is to eliminate gender as any concern, just make the film by adapting the elements of the comics that the filmmakers think are best as you would with a male character. Men and women can both look up to and relate to characters of the other gender.

As others have stated here the problem IS the source material. As long as female comic book superheroes are continually visually depicted in terms that supersedes their characterisations studios are not going to take adapting their stories seriously.

We live in a world where actors such as Michael Keaton, Tobey Maguire, Ron Perlman and Mark Ruffalo have all successfully portrayed superheroes, where the successful launching point for the Marvel movie universe, IRON MAN, saw the title character played by a, then, non bankable actor in his early 40s in RDJ. And the key to those successful movies was the fact that none of those actors fitted into the CW mold of being young or young looking (especially in Downey and Perlman's case) or pretty (aside from Downey of course LOL). The mold that Hollywood demands of it's female stars unless they're Meryl Streep. Now try to imagine ANY comic book superheroine being cast using the above criteria. A wide variety of ppl can relate to characters like Bats, Spidey, IM or the Hulk on the big screen because, IMO, of casting actors that suggest that ANYONE in the audience can be them.

He addresses this much better than I. This is part of the reason that superheroine CBMs have sucked, it's hard to faithfully adapt a bad story into a good one. You can't 'eliminate gender as a concern' while adapting stories from the comics that are so gender-biased. It's like quoting Rush Limbaugh without being racist. Nice idea, not really practical. By the way, femininity is "a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with girls and women." I'm not sure why my personal opinion on the matter is relevant to the discussion.

I don't think the Resident Evil movies are really good examples of templates because they aren't particularly good at all. On a slightly different note, I'd disagree that Black Widow was emotionless at all in the Avengers and I doubt Alice is supposed to come off as emotionless, it's just the films are badly written.

Wonder Woman could be adapted as per the current run in the comics. Essentially, make the supporting cast Zeus' extended family and build the traumas or drama around the politics of the Olympian throne. It's not my favourite idea for adapting the property, but it could certainly work. The biggest obstacle to these films getting made is all about bottom line.

I really don't think it's due to creative reasons. Studio heads will pin the failures of female driven comic films on the gender of the star and the success of things like The Hunger Games on the fact that it's from a popular series of teenage books. The studios will probably need to start with a lower budget film so they have less at stake and work up the budget if the film succeeds.

Well, I'm not overly impressed with the RE movies, I just know that they keep making them, so they must be doing something right. It also shows, imho, that starting with a low budget, leads to more of the same, not a jump in budget if the first few low budget films do well.

While Black Widow (and Alice) aren't absolutely emotionless, I was referring to her being the Stoic personality type. Compared to her male co-stars, she was the most about-business and the least emotive. All emotions stay buried deep under the surface, incapable of being expressed verbally. Writing these kinds of 'broken' women is relatively easy in comparison with writing a more emotive woman who is still strong and likeable. Alice, any of Summer Glau's characters, Ripley, to an extent. Even Wondy's current run in comics has a bit of this. She shows her emotions entirely by the actions she chooses to undertake, but she doesn't have a whole lot to say, as far as I've read. Often, other characters are filling us in on what she's feeling and thinking. Compare this with the idea of a woman who is normal until superpowers enter her life. Not my favorite interpretation either but I agree with you that it is the most likely to be made into a film.

 

[MadVillainy]

That's why taking the comic-book approach to superheroines will never work. Hollywood has tried that: there's plenty of examples of hot 'n' sexy superheroine/action heroine types out there that never became true blockbuster franchises --- Kill Bill, Underworld, Salt, Resident Evil, Miss Congeniality, Thelma and Louise, Catwoman, Colombiana, Sucker Punch, Aeon Flux, Elektra, Chun-Li, Red Sonja, Sheena, La Femme Nikita, and Barb Wire. Lara Croft is the only one who had any real success, but the dropoff in b.o. from her first to her sequel was massive.

1) I'd say Resident Evil is a blockbuster franchise. Not one I like but it makes money. Same with Underworld to a less extent.
2) Some of the movies you chose like Kill Bill, Thelma and Louise (especially this one), Miss Congeniality werent meant to be blockbuster franchises
3) Sucker Punch, Elektra, Aeon Flux, Catwoman, Colombiana, Chun Li all sucked in most people's eyes. They didnt do well not because it had superheroines but because they sucked and save for Catwoman didnt really have BO draws.

That's because guys don't go to movies about hot action chicks, and women don't go to movies about hot action chicks. That leaves superheroines in a bind....they either need to be part of a group or someone else's story; or else, as I said, you need to focus on making a movie about a superheroine a chick flick instead. Re-imagine Titanic, Bridesmaids, The Help, Ghost, Sex and the City, Pretty Woman, Twilight, Terms of Endearment, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, The Princess Diaries, Legally Blonde, or Thelma and Louise, only with superheroines, and you've got a formula that can work.

Strongly disagree. That'd be the wrong way to go. That'd be a terrible way to go. And honestly I think that line of thinking holds some unfortunate implications.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah, we don't know anything about Whedon's script but he didn't leave because the studio regected him, he left because he felt that the studio wasn't confident in him or the property.

I have to disagree with Superman Returns,it was boring but it wasn't bad, rotten tomatoes and top critics allways put it in the 70s %, and it still made a lot of money, just not enough, which makes sence, because it was a tribute to a film made in the 70s, and didn't have any action between super powered people. When it was released i was more of a Spider-Man and Batman fan so i didn't see it because i found the character boring (i now know more of course t but still it made a lot more than i thought it would, it didn't make more because word of mouth wasn't very positive, if Superman Returns had more action and was something original instead of trying to be a sequel Superman II it probably would have made much more money and the character would have been more likeable.

I don't know if you're agreeing or not with me of how Wonder Woman should be portrayed t:, not killing was allways something important that made part of the character like it allways made part o Superman and Batman, but some writers like to change this just because she's an amazon and show her as an angry aggressive goddess.

I don't even know if I'm agreeing or not, man. I kinda like that she kills, but I also realize it makes her less of a superhero and an inspiration and more a generic warrior badarse. On Superman Returns, it being good is arguable, I guess, but Superman was definitely not likeable. And that's all I'm saying Icon != Likeable.

My characterization of Wonder Woman is very much the Marston idea of love-incarnate-Aphrodite's-avatar type, so her journey would start out a bit spoiled, very adventurous, a lover of life, a princess wanting to be a hero/ambassador for herself, and realizing that the world needs her services badly. She perhaps would start out as a killer and learn not to for instance. She'd have some naivete, but not about gas pumps or cell phones, rather, her place in society. I usually hate the humble storyline, but the character needs an arc of some sort.

 

[cherokeesam]

1) I'd say Resident Evil is a blockbuster franchise. Not one I like but it makes money. Same with Underworld to a less extent.
2) Some of the movies you chose like Kill Bill, Thelma and Louise (especially this one), Miss Congeniality werent meant to be blockbuster franchises
3) Sucker Punch, Elektra, Aeon Flux, Catwoman, Colombiana, Chun Li all sucked in most people's eyes. They didnt do well not because it had superheroines but because they sucked and save for Catwoman didnt really have BO draws.


Strongly disagree. That'd be the wrong way to go. That'd be a terrible way to go. And honestly I think that line of thinking holds some unfortunate implications.

What unfortunate implications?
I think if Marvel or Warners or whoever else *really* wants to reach out to female audiences for this genre, they can't do it by making sexed-up pinups walking around half-naked in amongst male heroes and villains who don't seem to suffer that clothing shortage at all. Teenage male fantasy works great for comic books and video games, but it hasn't built film audiences at all --- either for boys OR girls. Of *any* age.

Either that, or make all your male heroes walk around shirtless all the time.

 

[metaphysician]

This is very tangential, but if they were to cast Amanda Tapping as Ms Marvel, I would totally go see it. I don't give a damn that she's in her late 40s.

 

[metaphysician]

What unfortunate implications?
I think if Marvel or Warners or whoever else *really* wants to reach out to female audiences for this genre, they can't do it by making sexed-up pinups walking around half-naked in amongst male heroes and villains who don't seem to suffer that clothing shortage at all. Teenage male fantasy works great for comic books and video games, but it hasn't built film audiences at all --- either for boys OR girls. Of *any* age.

Either that, or make all your male heroes walk around shirtless all the time.

The problem is, I don't think turning the characters into rom-com stereotypes would work, either. What we really need is writers who can create action-adventure stories that don't require the heroine to be de-feminized.

 

[DrCosmic]

In my experience, the writers who can do that are few, and have done so by putting flattering romantic storylines in for these heroines.

 

[Lord]

That's why taking the comic-book approach to superheroines will never work. Hollywood has tried that: there's plenty of examples of hot 'n' sexy superheroine/action heroine types out there that never became true blockbuster franchises --- Kill Bill, Underworld, Salt, Resident Evil, Miss Congeniality, Thelma and Louise, Catwoman, Colombiana, Sucker Punch, Aeon Flux, Elektra, Chun-Li, Red Sonja, Sheena, La Femme Nikita, and Barb Wire. Lara Croft is the only one who had any real success, but the dropoff in b.o. from her first to her sequel was massive.

Kill Bill was supposed to be a 2-Part film, it was, it also received exelent reviews, and it all came from Tarantino's mind, there's only more if he wants to, it's his masterpiece not the studio's and even with that he's actually planing and 3rd and last film.

 

[Chewy]

Look to stuff like Salt and Aliens and The Hunger Games, not Pretty Woman or The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. lol.

 

[MadVillainy]

What unfortunate implications?
I think if Marvel or Warners or whoever else *really* wants to reach out to female audiences for this genre, they can't do it by making sexed-up pinups walking around half-naked in amongst male heroes and villains who don't seem to suffer that clothing shortage at all. Teenage male fantasy works great for comic books and video games, but it hasn't built film audiences at all --- either for boys OR girls. Of *any* age.

Either that, or make all your male heroes walk around shirtless all the time.

The unfortunate implication that to make fillms with women successful you need to treat them/look for inspiration in rom coms. Sure if youre making a romantic film look toward the films you mentioned. But for an action film, why in the world would you look at Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants

It's like saying to make Black Panther successful look at Tyler Perry for inspiration.

Look to stuff like Salt and Aliens and The Hunger Games, not Pretty Woman or The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. lol.

I know right?


I mean people keep bringing up examples of bad movies starring females and say something along the lines of "This is why a female action movie doesnt work" and they ignore HUnger Games and Salt.

 

[jmc]

In theory Hunger Games should have been proof enough, but the argument is always going to be that series had a big reading fan base to ensure it was going to be a success.

 

[DrCosmic]

Look to stuff like Salt and Aliens and The Hunger Games, not Pretty Woman or The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. lol.

Salt and Hunger Games had plot-crucial romantic storylines. That's what's being advocated. Aliens, and other Stoic Action Woman movies put their heroine on action teams so they can have this sort of vicarious emoting, an idea that doesn't work for most superheroines... well it works, that's what the New52 Diana is doing, I just don't like it.

I think the notion of putting in a woman capable of having a healthy relationship with a man, who wants to do so, is a very relatable idea. It doesn't have to be rom-com, or even have a happy ending (see: Salt, Hunger Games) but this Stoic Action Girl alternative comes with certain things in order to work that I don't want for my favorite superheroines like Wonder Woman, and Ms. Marvel.

 

[MadVillainy]

AND another thing, why are some people acting like going after the female demographic is the smartest thing. If you were to have Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants or The Princess Diaries in a positive light anywhere near the name Wonder Woman in the marketing, the interviews or whatever you'll alienate SO much of the male demographic which would just be movie suicide.
Males are the largest demographic who goes to see superhero films, yes or no (seriously yes or no I need confirmation). If that's the case why would you have it inspired by Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants, a movie where most males didnt go to see?
Salt was relatively successful it didnt market to the female audience much if at all, same with Tomb Raider
/rant