BvS What Stylized Colour Scheme do you Want/Expect for Gotham City?

[SoultakerKatana]

Gotham is in New jersey and Metropolis is in Deleware.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

In what sense? They're fictional cities.

In the sense that I grew up with the end of the old DC continuity and the immediate post crisis world, and while Metropolis is in a gestalt universe of sci fi, magic and what not, the idea of the place being filled with robots, floating buildings or the like, Jimmy Olsen going to work in a jet pack... That takes away from something that is important tonally. Superman is amazing because he gets juxtaposed against the real world. The verisimilitude of the Donner films is a fine example of how that works. His Metropolis was NYC of 1977, full stop. As such, Superman in such a place is that much more fantastical and out the norm since he's swooping through a real city that looks like an actual lived in place. I don't have an issue with a bit of "15 minutes into the future" but when suddenly Metropolis has a city government that can afford robo police units that hover or everyone has a flying car, it's a bit much.

But I feel the same about Gotham and it's over the top designs. In the late 80's and early 90's, pre-Giulliani, and even pre-Burton Batman, the wish fulfillment part of characters like Batman or even the Punisher was that if they were real they would be taking on and bringing the gangs, the dealers and the pushers to justice. I grew up six blocks from where I live now. I remember two fatal shootings that happened right literally in front of my doorstep. This among other things caused my dad and mom to pull up stakes to the Poconos, but I digress... Point is, the comics of the time, pre-Burton film, reflected that grimy violent state without resorting to the overly stylized design. It's easier for myself to imagine Batman stalking a real city street than the contrived, over the top "Gothic" Gotham. That's my tastes though.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Right now there is an argument about seasons of the year in Batman v Superman forum.

I like Scout but... Really? It's a few seconds of footage in a tie in ad and you need to argue about what the weather is like when the leaves change? I'm sorry but... That's the essence of nit picking.

 

[jokesonm3]

I like Scout but... Really? It's a few seconds of footage in a tie in ad and you need to argue about what the weather is like when the leaves change? I'm sorry but... That's the essence of nit picking.

DC and nitpicking go together like Jam on Toast.

 

[Boy Scout]

I like Scout but... Really? It's a few seconds of footage in a tie in ad and you need to argue about what the weather is like when the leaves change? I'm sorry but... That's the essence of nit picking.

That's...not what happened. There was a discussion going on about the color palette of the Comic Con trailer vs. the one in the spot, and one of the posters involved defended the darker colors in the former by saying "well, the film takes place in the fall." I thought that was a strange thing to say, for reasons I've already stated, and questioned it, but I wasn't arguing with anybody.

I like you, too, by the way. You're a nice dude.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

That's...not what happened. There was a discussion going on about the color palette of the Comic Con trailer vs. the one in the spot, and one of the posters involved defended the darker colors in the former by saying "well, the film takes place in the fall." I thought that was a strange thing to say, for reasons I've already stated, and questioned it, but I wasn't arguing with anybody.

I like you, too, by the way. You're a nice dude.

It's official... Next time I'm in Maryland we're going to a strip club.

 

[Boy Scout]

Cheers. I've never been, but it's on my list of things to do.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

In the sense that I grew up with the end of the old DC continuity and the immediate post crisis world, and while Metropolis is in a gestalt universe of sci fi, magic and what not, the idea of the place being filled with robots, floating buildings or the like, Jimmy Olsen going to work in a jet pack... That takes away from something that is important tonally. Superman is amazing because he gets juxtaposed against the real world. The verisimilitude of the Donner films is a fine example of how that works. His Metropolis was NYC of 1977, full stop. As such, Superman in such a place is that much more fantastical and out the norm since he's swooping through a real city that looks like an actual lived in place. I don't have an issue with a bit of "15 minutes into the future" but when suddenly Metropolis has a city government that can afford robo police units that hover or everyone has a flying car, it's a bit much.

But I feel the same about Gotham and it's over the top designs. In the late 80's and early 90's, pre-Giulliani, and even pre-Burton Batman, the wish fulfillment part of characters like Batman or even the Punisher was that if they were real they would be taking on and bringing the gangs, the dealers and the pushers to justice. I grew up six blocks from where I live now. I remember two fatal shootings that happened right literally in front of my doorstep. This among other things caused my dad and mom to pull up stakes to the Poconos, but I digress... Point is, the comics of the time, pre-Burton film, reflected that grimy violent state without resorting to the overly stylized design. It's easier for myself to imagine Batman stalking a real city street than the contrived, over the top "Gothic" Gotham. That's my tastes though.

I feel same. Obviously Snyder too.

 

[Marz69]

#NotMyMetropolis

 

[Jekecy]

In the sense that I grew up with the end of the old DC continuity and the immediate post crisis world, and while Metropolis is in a gestalt universe of sci fi, magic and what not, the idea of the place being filled with robots, floating buildings or the like, Jimmy Olsen going to work in a jet pack... That takes away from something that is important tonally. Superman is amazing because he gets juxtaposed against the real world. The verisimilitude of the Donner films is a fine example of how that works. His Metropolis was NYC of 1977, full stop. As such, Superman in such a place is that much more fantastical and out the norm since he's swooping through a real city that looks like an actual lived in place. I don't have an issue with a bit of "15 minutes into the future" but when suddenly Metropolis has a city government that can afford robo police units that hover or everyone has a flying car, it's a bit much.

I get what you mean, though I'm not sure how prevalent this futuristic Metropolis you speak of is in the comics (or other mediums for that matter). The most popular iteration I've seen post-Crisis is the aforementioned peek-into-the-future stylized metropolis; a glimpse at what the quintessential and thriving American city can look like.

In any case I think Superman's presence is so majestic and transcendent to any technology that I feel he can always stand out and be at the forefront of most settings. Off the top of my head I can only see it being interrupted if he's in a city of people who can 'fly themselves (guided or otherwise).

I myself like verisimilitude as well, but the concept invites deviations from reality (and delving into fantasy), without sacrificing tangibility. As long as it looks and feels like it could be a real city in our modern time, I don't mind artists painting their own stamp on Metropolis. Given that it is its own unique identity already, I'd rather not see any real-life counterparts.

But I feel the same about Gotham and it's over the top designs. In the late 80's and early 90's, pre-Giulliani, and even pre-Burton Batman, the wish fulfillment part of characters like Batman or even the Punisher was that if they were real they would be taking on and bringing the gangs, the dealers and the pushers to justice. I grew up six blocks from where I live now. I remember two fatal shootings that happened right literally in front of my doorstep. This among other things caused my dad and mom to pull up stakes to the Poconos, but I digress... Point is, the comics of the time, pre-Burton film, reflected that grimy violent state without resorting to the overly stylized design. It's easier for myself to imagine Batman stalking a real city street than the contrived, over the top "Gothic" Gotham. That's my tastes though.

I take it you're not a fan of the Gotham found in the Arkham games? How about the TV series?

 

[antoineflemming]

Fall where I live doesn't look overcast and rainy.

Any time of the year looks overcast and rainy when it's overcast and rainy. That's not something limited to a particular season. smh

Also, if you think the cities look the same, then go back and watch the Metropolis ad where they show LexCorp Tower. And stop nitpicking.

That said, the ads' lighting looked so much more real than the trailers, but then again, it's Turkish Airlines, and these ads are first and foremost advertisements for the airline.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Is it usually not? I wasn't being sarcastic.

I live in the North East of England and it's winter in the summer, summer in the winter... Rain on days forecasted for sun. It's positively swell!

 

[Boy Scout]

Any time of the year looks overcast and rainy when it's overcast and rainy. That's not something limited to a particular season. smh

No one said otherwise.

Also, if you think the cities look the same, then go back and watch the Metropolis ad where they show LexCorp Tower. And stop nitpicking.

Don't tell me what to do. When I want your opinion on something, I'll let you know. Until then, do us both a favor and mind your own business.

And by the way: don't join a conversation that you haven't bothered to read all the way through (or attempt to understand). You just end up embarrassing yourself.

 

[Spoonman]

Gotham is in New jersey and Metropolis is in Deleware.

Does this apply to the DCEU (cinematic universe)?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I get what you mean, though I'm not sure how prevalent this futuristic Metropolis you speak of is in the comics (or other mediums for that matter). The most popular iteration I've seen post-Crisis is the aforementioned peek-into-the-future stylized metropolis; a glimpse at what the quintessential and thriving American city can look like.

In any case I think Superman's presence is so majestic and transcendent to any technology that I feel he can always stand out and be at the forefront of most settings. Off the top of my head I can only see it being interrupted if he's in a city of people who can 'fly themselves (guided or otherwise).

I myself like verisimilitude as well, but the concept invites deviations from reality (and delving into fantasy), without sacrificing tangibility. As long as it looks and feels like it could be a real city in our modern time, I don't mind artists painting their own stamp on Metropolis. Given that it is its own unique identity already, I'd rather not see any real-life counterparts.



I take it you're not a fan of the Gotham found in the Arkham games? How about the TV series?

I am not a gamer, but the way the Arham game do tend to showcase the city is again, a little too over the top. I'm not crazy about most of the character designs either (or logic... Why was Bane put in prison with a supply of Venom?) though I admire their CGI advertisements/trailers as much as anyone else.

Funny you should mention the TV show. I am not one of those that was against GOTHAM it's first, more grounded, season. That was, for a TV show, and damned fine Gotham, though, full disclosure, they have filmed on location not just in NYC but in fact right in my neighborhood of Sunset Park Brooklyn a few times. I've passed them in the middle of shooting a couple times. But I really feel that first season was a great Gotham. The set dressed it just enough to be different than NYC but it's still looking like a real, tangible city somewhere in the North East.


I've said this before but here goes again...

Both Gotham and Metropolis are glosses on NYC, have been for a very long time. Sure people can point to Siegel and Schuster having references to Toronto for their "City" used as a back drop in the very early stories, but by the time the Fleischer cartoons arrive, remember that those widely seen and influential on the early Supes toons came out less than two years after the character's debut, it's made obvious that Superman operates in a stand in for The Big Apple. One toon in particular has a Native American mad scientist demand the return of the land Superman's city is on (whose heart is an island ) that his ancestors were swindled out of. He uses an Earthquake machine to back up his request. Sound familiar? If that's not enough Lois and Clark at the end are on a ferry looking out at the city and there is no doubt it's a stand in for New York.


Gotham, itself a long standing nick name for NYC, is like wise a fictionalized New York of the time. Comics were part of the national conversation of the time reflecting certain concerns in the culture and urban crime was a big one in the years of depression and a lead up to WWII. It's said Finger and Robinson brainstormed a lot going around the city of the time integrating buildings and land marks around town into heir stories. Let's remember these guys all worked in and around New York and it's five boroughs.

Like I stated before my druthers is that they can effectively delineate each city through mood and atmosphere and in the case of live action, cinematography, lighting and the "vibe" the director brings to the finished product without having to make it a city that looks like it was planned out by a madman where no one, the supposed faceless citizenry Batman launched his crusade for in the first place, would live. Look at Miller's YEAR ONE. It's long before the Burton Gotham and it was hailed in it's day, still is, for it's story an aesthetic and what he and Mazzucelli did was take inspiration from the late 70's to 80's era New York which had crime rate and social issues that seem almost alien to any modern residents of the city. Miller evoked a Gotham in his work that is no different than the NYC of his Daredevil run, and I don't think anyone really thinks those stories feature a backdrop without style or character, especially one fitting hard boiled stories of men crusading against crime.


Both cities are more about the stories evoking a certain frame of mind more than any specific design elements to me. Metropolis is... You are walking through mid town Manhattan on comfortable Spring day going towards the great lawn in Central Park with blue skies over head dotted by some clouds. The mass of humanity on the streets hum along without a care in the world. Children play in the park as older residents sit on the benches feeding pigeons. It's the ideal town for the ideal hero. You'd be forgiven if you think that order is the norm in the entire universe living in Metropolis. When chaos does intrude, in the form of a giant robot attack or a super villain attempting to death ray a building, in short order stability and tranquility are restored by the city's champion. That's Metropolis.


For Gotham? Imagine yourself away from the bustle and skyscrapers of mid town NYC. No, now you are walking near or below Union Square in south Manhattan, around 2am on one of the coolest moonless nights in late October. You pull your collar up to help with the chill as you navigate the post midnight depopulated streets with it's side alleys and less travelled thoroughfares when suddenly from behind you... you hear footsteps! That's Gotham, the embodiment of our fears and apprehensions of modern urban life. It's not some slick area the tourists go to to marvel at the tall buildings and bustling on the go culture. It's a town of foreboding at night, with the problems of modern cities dialed up to 11. In Gotham, chaos is the norm and it's hero reflects that as an agent of Justice in a place where the authorities have lost their grip to the crazed, the corrupt and the wicked.

None of that neccessarily requires an expressionistic or overly thought out design per se. The way you present the stories of these two places can easily evoke the character of the cities without anachronistic touches like blimps or a gargoyle fetish on display, to my mind anyway.


But I am aware I am in a minority on this. I also think I fall along a specific dividing line when it comes to fan's perspective on these things being adapted into live action. I think a lot of fans want "the fantasy brought to life" whole cloth or as much as can possibly be done in any given circumstance, and given how super stylized Gotham became part of the comics and the influential toon, that's what they want to see in adaptations today, recreating the fantasy. What I want is for the fantasy to be brought into a tangible and believable real world, to both make the fantasy elements pop on screen more but to also help with the suspension of disbelief. Since a kid, the Burton Gotham rubbed me the wrong way simply because while it's an okay fun film, it's also one that feels with it's population of fedora wearing anachronistic citizens and no rhyme or reason layout, it just all felt fake, even to 11 year old me.

 

[Guts]

Set photos from the filming of the ad.

 

[Guts]

Does this apply to the DCEU (cinematic universe)?

Deadshot's file said he was arrested in Gotham, New Jersey.

 

[Guts]

 

[SoultakerKatana]

Does this apply to the DCEU (cinematic universe)?

It very well could because if you look at the canon locations of where both cities are supposed to be only across the bay. in real life it would be the deleware bay separates them.

 

[KillerWolf]

METROPOLIS

GOTHAM

METRPOLIS

GOTHAM

I like how both Metropolis and Gotham look. Metropolis has that slightly SF feel of a very modern city, while Gotham has older architecture and a bit of art deco going on, though still feeling like a real city and not overstylized one to the point where it takes you out of it (like Burton's Gotham was to me). And they're both vast, developed cities, Gotham doesn't feel inferior to Metropolis in scope or architecture like I feared would be the case, it's just a different kind of city.

A matter of fact, I quite liked those Turkish Airlines spots themselves. I think I enjoyed them even more than I would another 30 sec spot from the film itself. They gave us different view into this world.

 

[Kane52630]

It's a shame the movie wont look as good as those ads.

 

[KillerWolf]

Bright you mean? Eh, I learned to appreciate Snyder's and Fong's visual style. While it doesn't befit every scene, I do like it overall.

 

[matt47]

It may sound boring but I prefer the real world look a lot more than the overdone color correction that Fong brings to the table. I like my movies to look like what outside my window looks like, especially for the DCEU where they keep saying that they want these movies to feel like they're in our world. If it doesn't look like our world it makes it harder for me to buy into.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's a shame the movie wont look as good as those ads.

Kane... They can't all have the incredible production design of B&R, what with the neon and the obviously plastic ice covering the city.

 

[Kane52630]

Kane... They can't all have the incredible production design of B&R, what with the neon and the obviously plastic ice covering the city.