Civil War What Team Are You On NOW?!?

[Ms. Marvel]

Well, she killed loads of people, even though it was an accident, so why shouldn't she have been in prison?

By that logic, Tony should be in jail for Ultron which in my opinion was 1000x worse.

 

[jp27]

By that logic, Tony should be in jail for Ultron which in my opinion was 1000x worse.

I dont think she should be in prison for what she did in civil war, but for what she did in AOU.
I think she is partially to blame for ultron and the hulk attacked a city because of her.

 

[All-Father]

After watching the movie, team Cap. Even though Stark still has Spidey, Cap has Black Panther and WS, who are awesome!

 

[regnak]

Still team Cap.

 

[AnneFan]

I'm seeing the movie on Saturday. I prefer Iron Man as a character, but I'm actually on Team Cap when it comes to ideology here.

 

[Kyle]

Cap! Tony was wrong on all counts. If he murdered Winter Soldier guy would have had to live with the guilt that he basically killed an innocent man.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Cap all the way. Enough's been said about superheroes inadvertently causing destruction on their own, but if the government were to get their hands on them? Shades of Garry Shandling in Iron Man 2.

 

[The Batman]

I was Team Cap before, and I'm Team Cap after watching the film.

This is the same world where government officials decided to nuke NYC, writing 8 million innocent people off as collateral damage. No wonder Steve doesn't want to be under their thumb.

 

[C. Lee]

Team Cap all the way.

 

[Wildcard]

Haven't seen the film yet but I'm still Team Cap, a fact I don't see changing at all.

 

[The Guard]

Team Nomad.

 

[Elayis]

I've always been Team Cap, both in the comic and now the film. Yes, accountability is a good thing, but that's not what registration is used for. It's always about someone (like Ross) pushing their own agenda. The fight with Crossbones proved that no one else could've taken him down. Even the Avengers were struggling at times. If they'd left it to regular police they would've been slaughters and Crossbones would've gotten away with the pathogen. It was unfortunate that ten people (that never even appeared on screen) died, but if the Avengers hadn't intervened the death toll would've been much higher, not just in Lagos, but wherever the pathogen was eventually used.

Plus, Stark was coming from an emotional (and frankly, contrived) place and was not thinking with his head. He did not want to talk, he wanted everyone to kowtow to him because he's the guy with all the money and (in his view) the brains. He's always right, even when he's wrong.

Well, she killed loads of people, even though it was an accident, so why shouldn't she have been in prison? If they knew Crossbones was going to be there they could have tipped off the military and picked up their vans outside of town - it was the Avengers that chose (with no authority in that country) to engage them in a VERY public area surrounded by people. They weren't even "supervillains", just mercenaries that Cap had beef with, and he's running operations on foreign soil to stop them, with no permission or authority there.

I've been in two minds, but I'm leaning to Team Iron-Man.

By the end, Iron-Man is Ross' little ****** on speed-dial, and anyone who was against them is in prison, so Cap was right about that and Iron-man knows it.

BUT

With Zemos motivations clear at the end... EVERYTHING was about Sokovia. Every action, every death, the death of T'Chakka, it was all just fallout from Sokovia. Not a thing happens in this entire movie that isn't indirectly caused by the Avengers and/or their irresponsibility and failures in AOU.

Everything that happened in AoU was Stark's fault. He's the one that created Ultron and that mess in the first place. Yes, he helped end it, and a key component of that was creating Vision (which Cap was against), but that's like trying to put out a forest fire that he already started. The houses are already burned and people are dead.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

By that logic, Tony should be in jail for Ultron which in my opinion was 1000x worse.

well... yes. Yes Stark should DEFINITELY be in jail for his actions in Ultron, no way about it. He experimented with something a power her had NO idea about... (I'll point out it was whilst making a "global" AI that would "bring peace" to the world... probably by force lol). The fact he's not in prison just more evidence that the heroes are just running round doing whatever they want with no consequences for their actions.

Everything that happened in AoU was Stark's fault. He's the one that created Ultron and that mess in the first place. Yes, he helped end it, and a key component of that was creating Vision (which Cap was against), but that's like trying to put out a forest fire that he already started. The houses are already burned and people are dead.

Yeah trying to put out a forest fire with even more fire. It's more fluke that it worked than anything. Now they have an all powerful robot walking round that could snap and murder everyone whenever he gets bored of humanity.

 

[Elayis]

Yeah trying to put out a forest fire with even more fire. It's more fluke that it worked than anything. Now they have an all powerful robot walking round that could snap and murder everyone whenever he gets bored of humanity.

True. In a normal world, his creation would never have been a wise decision. But the rules of storytelling (especially in the MCU) don't allow for that. I can't imagine Marvel ever doing a film where Vision goes truly evil (outside of brainwashing or tampering).

 

[Venom'sDad]

This thread is for those that have seen the film so spoil away.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=33588749&postcount=839

This^ guy in my opinion, makes a very compelling argument...if one put aside the ideology, because neither one of their way of thinking is completely wrong or right...it is a gray area. However, the way things are handle, the compassion for the other, the foresight...one has to take certain tangible displayed under consideration.

 

[Pokkle]

By that logic, Tony should be in jail for Ultron which in my opinion was 1000x worse.

Wanda litteraly worked with Ultron, and Banner also helped Stark for Ultron.
It isn't just Stark.

I've always been Team Cap, both in the comic and now the film. Yes, accountability is a good thing, but that's not what registration is used for. It's always about someone (like Ross) pushing their own agenda. The fight with Crossbones proved that no one else could've taken him down. Even the Avengers were struggling at times. If they'd left it to regular police they would've been slaughters and Crossbones would've gotten away with the pathogen. It was unfortunate that ten people (that never even appeared on screen) died, but if the Avengers hadn't intervened the death toll would've been much higher, not just in Lagos, but wherever the pathogen was eventually used.

Crossbones unleash a bomb in the crowd because Cap illegally went into a foreign soil to arrest him.
Without Cap, Crossbones will have sold the bio weapon to someone and probably a lot of people would have died.
But maybe not and it would have been totally different people in a different place.

You can't conduct arrest, assassination,etc into a foreign soil without supervision.
Somebody must be held responsible if it don't go well and it could have been better.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Wanda litteraly worked with Ultron, and Banner also helped Stark for Ultron.
It isn't just Stark.

Oh but in this scenario the person I was responding to just said that Wanda should be in jail for Lagos. So going by the assumption that she's justifiably in jail, Stark should also be in jail. Bruce too....but good luck with that.

I personally don't want any of them in jail I just think it's ridiculous to start suggesting so and so should be in jail when we know a lot more of them should be in jail. But then there wouldn't be anymore superhero films would there?

 

[Pokkle]

The accords prevent jail if they had all signed, they will be working offcially for the United Nations.

 

[ctsketch]

I don't know man...They both had good motivations

 

[AlluAllu]

Team Cap. But just barely. Avengers can't just force their will to the world, but they also deserve their own free will. Cap has always chosen his own conscience over any orders and I respect that.

Russos and M&M really deserve all the praise for making both sides rational and compelling.

 

[FN-2187]

Team Cap. But just barely. Avengers can't just force their will to the world, but they also deserve their own free will. Cap has always chosen his own conscience over any orders and I respect that.

Russos and M&M really deserve all the praise for making both sides rational and compelling.

This x 1000. I'm really impressed with how they managed to depict this conflict.

 

[JOE]

Team Cap going in, team Cap leaving. The third act was emotional, but I'm standing my ground. WE CANNOT SIGN!

 

[LostSon88]

Team Cap when the movie started...started to lean towards Team Stark as the movie went on...slowly went back to Team Cap after Tony had Scarlett Witch under lockdown...then to completely conflicted after the "reveal" about 1991.

My emotions were all over the place. Haha.

But in the end, still TEAM CAP. Seeing the Avengers locked up as criminals is definitely what sealed it for me. ***k the Sokovia Accords.

 

[regnak]

Team Cap when the movie started...started to lean towards Team Stark as the movie went on...slowly went back to Team Cap after Tony had Scarlett Witch under lockdown...then to completely conflicted after the "reveal" about 1991.

My emotions were all over the place. Haha.

But in the end, still TEAM CAP. Seeing the Avengers locked up as criminals is definitely what sealed it for me. ***k the Sokovia Accords.

Having Wanda locked up is one thing but a straight jacket and collar? Ross and his bondage fantasies.

 

[LostSon88]

The accords prevent jail if they had all signed, they will be working offcially for the United Nations.

Which would then dictate what conflicts they can and can't intervene in.

Say if there was a maniac holding 300 kids hostage in a hospital, under the Accords, the Avengers wouldn't be able to get involved unless the UN gave them the okay...assuming they would. They could very well say no and the Avengers wouldn't be allowed to do a thing.

That's what Cap is talking about. Although the intentions of the Sokovia Accords seem noble, it'd only be a matter of time before the politics got involved and you'll have members of the UN having them carrying out missions for their own personal reasons.