BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[FunkMiller]

Im sure 30 mins could help a few things, but there are still other issues that Im sure 30 mins being restored will not help

Jesse Eisenberg, for instance. Or 'Martha'. Or Batman killing.

Still, I will watch the director's cut with a lot of interest, to see if it does improve the general quality of the movie story-wise. I sincerely hope it does.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

It only went wrong because it didn't know what it wanted to be. It could have either gone a Superman sequel and focused on Superman and Clark more, with Batman and Wonder Woman as more like background characters rather than main roles. And then play up the Supes villain angle and how that changes how people view Superman.

OR

Have it be a full blown set-up for the Justice League and throw Aquaman in there more, possibly Cyborg and have MORE Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman interaction in costume in order to set up the dynamic.

Cause at the moment, it seemed like it didn't know what it wanted to be. It was the misfortune case of being a superhero film with two many characters, too many plots, which became somewhat jumbled.

The Avengers is the example of film with LOADS of characters but never losing place with one of them or feeling off balance. But I do get that the difference being that TA was a team-up film & this was an introduction film.

Its just, we had Superman/Clark, Batman/Bruce, Lois, Martha, Lex, Hollys character, Wonder Woman/ Diana, Doomsday, Perry, etc all with individual story-lines of their own. Its a lot to juggle and I'm not sure they did as well as they could have.

I hope people still remember me, lol. Its been a while since I've posted.

 

[MadVillainy]

It only went wrong because it didn't know what it wanted to be. It could have either gone a Superman sequel and focused on Superman and Clark more, with Batman and Wonder Woman as more like background characters rather than main roles. And then play up the Supes villain angle and how that changes how people view Superman.

OR

Have it be a full blown set-up for the Justice League and throw Aquaman in there more, possibly Cyborg and have MORE Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman interaction in costume in order to set up the dynamic.

Cause at the moment, it seemed like it didn't know what it wanted to be. It was the misfortune case of being a superhero film with two many characters, too many plots, which became somewhat jumbled.

The Avengers is the example of film with LOADS of characters but never losing place with one of them or feeling off balance. But I do get that the difference being that TA was a team-up film & this was an introduction film.

Its just, we had Superman/Clark, Batman/Bruce, Lois, Martha, Lex, Hollys character, Wonder Woman/ Diana, Doomsday, Perry, etc all with individual story-lines of their own. Its a lot to juggle and I'm not sure they did as well as they could have.

I hope people still remember me, lol. Its been a while since I've posted.

AND that's what worries me about JL. the filmmakers already had a lot with the number of plots with BvS, how are they gonna handle it when theyre just as many plots. If not more?
I said this already, i forget if this one or another, but in JL they have to:
1. Bring back Superman
2. Gather the league
3. Introduce Aquaman, Cyborg, and Flash
4. Introduce Mera, Gordon, and whatever other supporting cast members
5. Give all of the 6 "stuff" to do. Their own personal stakes, development or whatever
6. Im guessing tie in to the Knightmare somehow
7. Intro and set up the villain
8. Explain why Lois is the key/give Lois something to do
9. Have the big spectacle action we all expect from a movie like this
10. Possibly set up other DCEU films

That's really tricky to pull off. IMO not even The Avengers, the other major superhero team up, juggled all their stuff that well and, again IMO, Avengers was in more capable hands then JL is in Snyder's.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

You have absolutely no idea if those "missing" 30 minutes would make the film better or worse. None.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

AND that's what worries me about JL. the filmmakers already had a lot with the number of plots with BvS, how are they gonna handle it when theyre just as many plots. If not more?
I said this already, i forget if this one or another, but in JL they have to:
1. Bring back Superman
2. Gather the league
3. Introduce Aquaman, Cyborg, and Flash
4. Introduce Mera, Gordon, and whatever other supporting cast members
5. Give all of the 6 "stuff" to do. Their own personal stakes, development or whatever
6. Im guessing tie in to the Knightmare somehow
7. Intro and set up the villain
8. Explain why Lois is the key/give Lois something to do
9. Have the big spectacle action we all expect from a movie like this
10. Possibly set up other DCEU films

That's really tricky to pull off. IMO not even The Avengers, the other major superhero team up, juggled all their stuff that well and, again IMO, Avengers was in more capable hands then JL is in Snyder's.

True, they have got a lot of work on their hands. I imagine quite a few must be peeing their draws at this point. Im thinkin' they should look at what worked in Avengers, the way no character was leading but they were all part of one story, sort of how an ensemble TV show or Soap drama works and just give them equal screen time each.

Thats my two cents lol.

 

[MadVillainy]

True, they have got a lot of work on their hands. I imagine quite a few must be peeing their draws at this point. Im thinkin' they should look at what worked in Avengers, the way no character was leading but they were all part of one story, sort of how an ensemble TV show or Soap drama works and just give them equal screen time each.

Thats my two cents lol.

Well I'd kinda disagree with that.
Avengers I think gave priority to certain characters. Stark up top, Hawkeye at bottom.

With equal screen time it's hard because why should Cyborg get as much screentime as Batfleck? He's the bigger star, they're paying him more, people like Batman more.

It's easy to think/say give them equal screentime, but it's very difficult once you take a bunch of other things into consideration.

But this is for another thread. I don't wanna derail this one.

 

[Frodo]

I really didn't like the film on several levels, so its not like i'm on the fence and 30 minutes will suddenly change my mind about it. Sorry, it won't.

That said, it will give us more of an insight of what the raw product was or what the production was going for, so if nothing else , it may give a fuller picture of Snyder's original vision , even if the vision isn't something that someone like me doesn't like to begin with.

I won't see a 3 hour version in the theater as I was bored throughout the regular run time , but eventually i'll check out the deleted scenes. At this point I disliked the film so much I really in no rush to see an extended cut, but that's just me.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

People's main complaints-
It was too long
It was too unnesecarily dark
Batman was a murderer

SNYDERS RESPONSE
"Let's release an R rated version with another 30 minutes of Batman brutal violence! "

 

[Octavias]

This is the first movie of either superhero I opted not to see in theaters, in fact it's one of the few superhero flicks I didn't shell out money for on the opening weekend. Man of Steel" certainly biased me a little, as did "The Dark Knight Rises"...

The DC movies lately have been overly political, dark, and over escalated too early. Compare that to the perfectly toned Flash, Arrow or even Supergirl shows on TV (which I never miss) or any of the Marvel flicks... I mean they have a hit format on Netflix that incredibly dark, but you don't see them shoehorning Spiderman into that dark, gritty format....

Also we are two movies into this new DC movie universe and we already have Zod, Lex, Doomsday, and Darkseid... Dc has like seventy five years of BAtman and Superman enemies to choose from, they couldn't trust their characters enough to use a few minor enemies done right as early fodder here?

If the WOM was good on this movie I would have been there already, but I just feel like this has gotten where Sony took Spiderman.. I would have had to hear good things before I go back...

 

[samsnee]

AND that's what worries me about JL. the filmmakers already had a lot with the number of plots with BvS, how are they gonna handle it when theyre just as many plots. If not more?
I said this already, i forget if this one or another, but in JL they have to:
1. Bring back Superman
2. Gather the league
3. Introduce Aquaman, Cyborg, and Flash
4. Introduce Mera, Gordon, and whatever other supporting cast members
5. Give all of the 6 "stuff" to do. Their own personal stakes, development or whatever
6. Im guessing tie in to the Knightmare somehow
7. Intro and set up the villain
8. Explain why Lois is the key/give Lois something to do
9. Have the big spectacle action we all expect from a movie like this
10. Possibly set up other DCEU films

That's really tricky to pull off. IMO not even The Avengers, the other major superhero team up, juggled all their stuff that well and, again IMO, Avengers was in more capable hands then JL is in Snyder's.

I hate to say it but if you do original stand alone movies first, it helps a couple of those points.

 

[MadVillainy]

I do think a 3 hr cut could help but some of my problems with BvS I don't think can be fixed with just a longer run time.

And the thing is what if the 3 hr cut is better? Is WB now gonna say ok: make 3 hr JL movie. I just don't see WB doing that.

I hate to say it but if you do original stand alone movies first, it helps a couple of those points.

Yeah about 2 of the points.
Still doing a team up movie is such a hard task for that many characters. Even the Singer X-Men movies have a big problem with team dynamics/giving everyone on the team time to shine.

I would be nervous even if it wasn't Snyder, but I would be a lot less nervous if he had earned my good faith

 

[Clark-Kent]

What went wrong?

 

[Loki882]

You could have cut out the Wayne murders scene entirely (yeah because it's not like we've seen THAT depicted onscreen repeatedly before) and use that time to flesh out more relevant details.

Oh and Snyder, USE ESTABLISHING SHOTS!! You did this somewhat in MOS as well, but it's even worse here, they're kind of necessarily for a movie of this scale.

 

[The Guard]

There were plenty of establishing shots. What do you mean, where weren't there any?

 

[DACrowe]

What went wrong w/Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice?

"Zack, you're hired!"

It was all downhill from there.

 

[Poni_Boy]

You could have cut out the Wayne murders scene entirely (yeah because it's not like we've seen THAT depicted onscreen repeatedly before) and use that time to flesh out more relevant details.

Oh and Snyder, USE ESTABLISHING SHOTS!! You did this somewhat in MOS as well, but it's even worse here, they're kind of necessarily for a movie of this scale.

THANK YOU. It was near impossible to tell when you were in Metropolis and when you were in Gotham.

 

[Clark-Kent]

THANK YOU. It was near impossible to tell when you were in Metropolis and when you were in Gotham.

The film needed more contrast between the heroes, and the environments are a part of that as well for sure.

 

[Seahawksfan]

For anyone who hasn't listened to this... please do. I enjoyed BvS but after listening to this podcast, I'm very concerned about the JL and Snyder's direction with these characters. Snyder doesn't have a clue how to handle superheroes. It's depressing.https://m.soundcloud.com/empiremaga...with-zack-snyder-charles-roven-deborah-snyder

 

[Loki882]

Snyder had NEVER backed down from his choices in MOS (which btw, I've defended him for). But part of that was predicated on the idea that it was building to something interesting and they'd properly address it here. But neither of those things happened, and Snyder seems to have double-down on it if anything.

And his comments prove now even to me that he just doesn't get why so many people have a problem with this, he cannot comprehend it for some reason.

 

[Orba]

Snyder had NEVER backed down from his choices in MOS (which btw, I've defended him for). But part of that was predicated on the idea that it was building to something interesting and they'd properly address it here. But neither of those things happened, and Snyder seems to have double-down on it if anything.

And his comments prove now even to me that he just doesn't get why so many people have a problem with this, he cannot comprehend it for some reason.

Yeah I've come to the same conclusion about Snyder, I don't think he will ever change or try to correct things simply as I don't think he understands the problems people have with his films. He just seems puzzled by it. When interviewed he tends to defend himself by talking about the aesthetic, but he doesn't seem to understand that a comic book movie is about more than just replicating panels he thought looked cool. And until he understands that he will just keep doing the same thing.

 

[BestGirl]

What went wrong was 30 min was cut from the film.

Best case scenario: I could see 30 minutes clarifying the Africa subplot, which felt truncated, as well as Superman's, Batman's, and Lex's motivations. We might - and ought - to see Superman saving people. There could also be some jokes hidden in those 30 minutes to lighten the movie's tone a bit (I doubt we'll get much of that, though). But it won't fix the Martha resolution to Bats's and Supes's fight.

 

[jmc]

There were plenty of establishing shots. What do you mean, where weren't there any?

What did Gotham look like?

 

[The Guard]

What did Gotham look like?

Like a big city. We mostly saw run down buildings and warehouses...or Bruce Wayne's property, since that's where Bruce tended to be. There were the shots of the city when Batman turned on the signal too.

 

[Poni_Boy]

What did Gotham look like?

You know, Gotham. Like a city with a lot of criminals. And dark. And gothic. You know. Like Nolan movies but darker. Run down buildings. Like Gotham.

Oh you mean based solely on THIS movie? No ****ing clue they didn't show it enough.

 

[Clark-Kent]

It's too bad they didn't film a normal Lex version and a quirky version. I could hold out hope in that case they just deleted the wrong performances on accident for theater release.....