BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[FunkMiller]

Who needs Batman, Superman can patrol both cities since they are in very very close proximity of each other.

That's exactly what I thought. They are practically in each other's back yard.

And what gets me is that at some point, somebody in the creative process for this flick must have thought of that, surely?

Did no-one have the brains to bring up this issue? Or did they just not give a damn, because we have to have Jessie on top of a building in Metropolis looking at the bat signal in Gotham, and screw the problem?

 

[The Caped Knight]

The reason behind Batman vs. Superman conflict should've been about ideology and difference on fighting justice. Huge missed opportunity not to mention the physical fight could've been a lot longer.

 

[MadVillainy]

I been meaning to say this, but the Wayne parent death was stupid. Not just because they showed it, but the fact that it looked like Thomas Wayne tried to charge the guy makes it so idiotic to me.

 

[JOE]

I been meaning to say this, but the Wayne parent death was stupid. Not just because they showed it, but the fact that it looked like Thomas Wayne tried to charge the guy makes it so idiotic to me.

That's another origin I'll hopefully never have to see again... And I thought Spidey's was getting stale.

 

[The Shape]

Who needs Batman, Superman can patrol both cities since they are in very very close proximity of each other.

That's a silly sentiment and not even close to being an issue. Based on his power set and the fact the he's the most powerful being in the world/universe (considered to be a God and world savior), why would any other superheroes be needed when Superman can just jet over to any city at any time to handle their business for them? Look how quickly he decided to instantly shoot over to the Day of the Dead festival in Mexico to save a girl when he briefly saw the situation unfold on TV.

Either way, the fact remains that despite all of his powers and skills, Superman can't be everywhere at once. If Metropolis is meant to be like NYC in this universe, then Superman has over 8 million people to watch over, and since the film also shows him branching out to different parts of the world to aide in disasters and rescues, I'd say he'll have his hands fill as it is.

Batman proactively fights/solves crime, does investigative work, and operates at the street level (at least in this universe so far). He's also likely doing all kinds of things and stopping crimes that the people in Gotham don't even know about. I doubt Supes would be jetting over to Gotham every night to do Batman's job for him, unless there was a larger threat or incident that required his help.

Also, there's a certain level of movie/superhero logic in shared universes that must be applied here, otherwise these pointless questions (or "criticisms") will always come up. Why don't the rest of the Avengers show up to help out with the huge incidents and world-ending events at the end of most non-MCU movies? Why wouldn't Superman show up to help Batman and patrol Gotham if their cities are close to one another? Why don't the most powerful heroes always show up in the comics to help out their buddies who are facing the most serioues of threats alone?

Because while they exist in a shared universe, these writers/artists/directors/studios also want to tell separate stories featuring their individual heroes...and these heroes supposedly have plenty of their own business to take care of which keeps them busy most of the time, so they don't need all need to be used as a crutch for every story they're trying to tell.

 

[chintai80]

I been meaning to say this, but the Wayne parent death was stupid. Not just because they showed it, but the fact that it looked like Thomas Wayne tried to charge the guy makes it so idiotic to me.

the whole sequence with young bruce falling and the bats lifting him up looked cheesy as hell to me, but the way the wayne murders were portrayed isn't something new:

https://cambriancomics.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/batman-origin-copy-thumb.jpg

^ look at the original origin - thomas wayne moves aggressively towards joe chill and gets shot.

but also the bvs sequence is based off the dark knight returns where thomas wayne clenches his fist to confront the mugger:

https://bigotherbigother.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/page-231.jpg


yea, its a dumb move, but it was something that was in the comics too. not like it was created just for the movie.

 

[MadVillainy]

the whole sequence with young bruce falling and the bats lifting him up looked cheesy as hell to me, but the way the wayne murders were portrayed isn't something new:

https://cambriancomics.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/batman-origin-copy-thumb.jpg

^ look at the original origin - thomas wayne moves aggressively towards joe chill and gets shot.

but also the bvs sequence is based off the dark knight returns where thomas wayne clenches his fist to confront the mugger:

https://bigotherbigother.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/page-231.jpg

yea, its a dumb move, but it was something that was in the comics too. not like it was created just for the movie.

Well the one in TDKR looks like he was pushing Bruce out of the way rather than trying to fight to guy. But I see your point.

Still think it's stupid to me though.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I been meaning to say this, but the Wayne parent death was stupid. Not just because they showed it, but the fact that it looked like Thomas Wayne tried to charge the guy makes it so idiotic to me.

Thomas Wayne trying to punch the mugger is just so ****ing Zack Snyder. It just looks silly.

 

[chintai80]

yea it does looks stupid because it shows thomas wayne escalated the situation.

but i'm not gonna crap on snyder for portraying that because it was something already in the comics.

i will crap on snyder when he says batman killed in tdkr to justify having batfleck kill.
tdkr batman clearly has a no kill rule.

 

[terry78]

I can kinda see it from both sides because if you've ever been mugged your mindset is, "is this dick gonna just do something to me even if I comply?" Sometimes crooks panic and think leaving you conscious makes you a witness.

 

[chintai80]

I can kinda see it from both sides because if you've ever been mugged your mindset is, "is this dick gonna just do something to me even if I comply?" Sometimes crooks panic and think leaving you conscious makes you a witness.

this is true.
around where i live theres been times where some muggers still shot people even after they've complied and gave them their money.

this world needs a batman...

 

[The Caped Knight]

I been meaning to say this, but the Wayne parent death was stupid. Not just because they showed it, but the fact that it looked like Thomas Wayne tried to charge the guy makes it so idiotic to me.

Ah I disagree, Thomas was only doing what he though was right in the defense and protection of his family who's lives were being threaten.

He acted much like Ra's had mention to Bruce in "Batman Begins".

 

[MadVillainy]

Ah I disagree, Thomas was only doing what he though was right in the defense and protection of his family who's lives were being threaten.

He acted much like Ra's had mention to Bruce in "Batman Begins".

But...I mean the guy had the gun trained on him. He didn't drop the gun. He literally had the gun on him and he ran into it Leeroy Jenkins style.

I mean it's still sad that he died, but there's trying to protect his family and being an idiot.

If Joe Chill got distracted, I get Thomas attacking.
If Chill dropped the gun, I get it.

He ran into a gun. I know there are people who would act like that. And there are even instances of people who give there stuff up and are still shot. But I just thought it made Thomas look reckless and stupid. Especially since he's rich and it's not like losing the money would be no thing. The only thing it mightve truly cost him is his pride.

There's a really cool scene in "For A Man Who Has Everything" where Thomas successfully fights off Chill for a bit. And I remember correctly in the comic, he actually disarmed him

 

[The Caped Knight]

I think it's a matter of perspective, I saw it from the point of view Thomas was preparing to punch Chill but he got shot.

 

[terry78]

I think in normal people world it seems like a dumb move, but Thomas Wayne was like this big hearted tycoon who always helped those in need apparently and this was kind of in character for him.

 

[Jaxon]

I can kinda see it from both sides because if you've ever been mugged your mindset is, "is this dick gonna just do something to me even if I comply?" Sometimes crooks panic and think leaving you conscious makes you a witness.

Fight, flight, or freeze.

We each make a choice depending on where we see ourselves in statue. Alphas will fight. The rest not so much.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think it's a matter of perspective, I saw it from the point of view Thomas was preparing to punch Chill but he got shot.

Yeah it looked like that to me too.

But as I said CHill had him dead to rights so the move is still stupid to me

And I get that people are trying to rationalize it. He's an alpha, he's a tycoon, etc.
And Im not saying it doesn't happen in the "real world" or not, I'm just saying I think it's stupid to have someone have a gun on you, you have no training, your family is around, and they're not distracted at all and you try to knock them out

I am not saying it's not believable, I'm just saying it's stupid. And it made his death less tragic to me. That and the fact that Ive seen the Crime Alley scene so many times.

Fight, flight, or freeze.

We each make a choice depending on where we see ourselves in statue. Alphas will fight. The rest not so much.

I wouldnt even say it's an alpha thing or not. Or it would be only a percentage of alphas.

Alpha behavior doesn't always mean you do completely reckless things like winding up to punch someone who has you dead to rights with a gun, with your family around.

 

[writer0327]

Characterization. That's all that needed to be said. It's the biggest glaring weakness, which if done correctly, would have turned this entire film around. Superman needed to be Superman, not some sad sack version of the Man of Steel. In this character-driven story that Snyder was trying to tell,you have to get the characters right above everything else. If not, you've got a crazy mess that no amount of special effects and "awesome" movie moments will fix.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah I got to agree. I much preferred how Batman Begins did it where Thomas did the smart thing and tried to deescalate the situation, and things just went bad. As opposed to, making the situation worse in pretty much the stupidest way possible.

 

[chintai80]

Yeah I got to agree. I much preferred how Batman Begins did it where Thomas did the smart thing and tried to deescalate the situation, and things just went bad. As opposed to, making the situation worse in pretty much the stupidest way possible.

yea you hook in the audience's sympathy.
and the situation is just all the more tragic.
i feel begins was the best on-screen version of batman's origin by far.

 

[Donner]

the whole sequence with young bruce falling and the bats lifting him up looked cheesy as hell to me.

I went into the movie so pumped and then that sequence ruined it for me. It was the biggest wtf moment and completely deflated my excited bubble.

 

[InJustice]

the whole sequence with young bruce falling and the bats lifting him up looked cheesy as hell to me

Dare I say, it made me think Zack Snyder saw Batman Begins on the same day that he was penning the script with Goyer (at the time), and thought "DUUUUDE, WHAT IF WE MADE THAT, BUT INSTEAD LIKE...HAVE BATS FLY HIM UP AND ****!! DUUUUDE LMAO." Completely missing the point of the fall scene in Batman Begins as a central focus on Bruce's exposure to fear, and overcoming it in the entire series.

Once I saw the scene, I figured this movie was going to be total crap. The bats scene really set the tone for the movie.

 

[Greens]

Yeah that scene was out of place, dream sequence or not. One god in the movie wasn't enough for Snyder.

 

[Lily Adler]

The reason behind Batman vs. Superman conflict should've been about ideology and difference on fighting justice. Huge missed opportunity not to mention the physical fight could've been a lot longer.

They were setting that up (pretty much why Clark is investigating Batman), but like Superman's odd Dr. Manhattan take it was just glossed over or not explored deep enough. They say the Ultimate Cut has more scenes with Clark investigating Batman. I do think they didn't delve into it deep enough with Bruce being untrustworthy of Superman and his heroics which have consequences and Clark not liking Batman's brutality with criminals. There was enough there to give us a clash of ideologies and fists, but it's as if Snyder wanted to explore the latter as it was more visually pleasing. When Superman crashed the Batmobile it should have been a discussion on their tactics and what they do. I wanted to see them debate with one another. Again my complaints could be rectified in the Ultimate Cut.

 

[chintai80]

Dare I say, it made me think Zack Snyder saw Batman Begins on the same day that he was penning the script with Goyer (at the time), and thought "DUUUUDE, WHAT IF WE MADE THAT, BUT INSTEAD LIKE...HAVE BATS FLY HIM UP AND ****!! DUUUUDE LMAO." Completely missing the point of the fall scene in Batman Begins as a central focus on Bruce's exposure to fear, and overcoming it in the entire series.

Once I saw the scene, I figured this movie was going to be total crap. The bats scene really set the tone for the movie.

it's snyder's over-indulgence in slo-mo in that scene that really ruined it for me.

i remember being wowed by the beginning of man of steel.
but this was the opposite reaction -- and i was hoping it was just one minor bad part in the movie -- but i was wrong. unfortunately, the movie was full of questionable choices like this.

did he think making the slo-mo fall into the well and the bats flying young bruce up would make it look cool or even thoughtful? it just looked really garish. and that's how i felt about the whole movie overall = garish.

there was a review that said BvS is the Affliction t-shirt of superhero movies. and that's pretty on the mark. lol.