BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[Poni_Boy]

Robin has been murdered by the joker. No good men are left. Good men have turned bad. An alien has made his whole life redundant. Is it that hard to see how his own violence has escalated. This Batman is at that point from the start of the movie with plenty of explanation how he got there. I have no idea why people are hung up on this criminals are crazy violent you just can't subvert them.

Who's Robin?

 

[JtheDreamer]

When I sit and think about it - this movie is absolutely soiled in death.

- Thomas and Martha being shot to death in the street
- Collateral deaths from the Zod/Supes fight
- Lois's camera guy shot point blank in the head (along with the villagers)
- Robin was shown as already dead
- Deaths at the Senate hearing explosions
- Batman maliciously murders goons
- Batman tries to kill Superman
- Lex wants Superman to bring him the head of the Batman
- Pa Kent's ghost
- Superman's death

It's one thing to try to dramatize superheroes, but yeeeeesh. Death overboard throughout this one. It's no wonder parents aren't bringing their underlings back to see this one multiple times. The hell was the WB thinking?????

 

[Tacit Ronin]

- Lois's camera guy shot point blank in the head

That was Jimmy Olsen.

 

[TheVileOne]

I recall how Batman v Superman was supposed to address the destruction of Metropolis at Superman's hands. It didn't really.

All the government stuff was because of Nairobi, not Zod and Metropolis.

So all the bloggers who reported that were wrong.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

They had a chance for Superman to speak, but it was decided that piss and explosions were worth more.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah Superman barely has any dialogue at all. He's so underdeveloped. I felt like in Man of Steel, at least there was sort of a character here. Not in this one.

Superman just standing in the middle of the Capital building after it blew up and showing him just standing there looking depressed is just symbolic of how troubling the movie is. It's just so depressing. Like Superman is just standing there after hundreds have died looking sad and doing NOTHING.

I mean, OK there's a scene of him dragging that freighter in the ice, but what is he even doing? He's dragging a freighter turned on its side. It looks derelict. Is he even actually saving anyone there?

And why does Superman see himself as better than Batman? Batman is trampling over Civil Rights? So it's OK for Superman to do the same when it concerns Lois Lane but not Batman against some human traffickers?

 

[Loki882]

Yeah not letting him defend himself was a HORRIBLE idea. That was the perfect spot to let him publically give his POV, but they didn't. Or let him give some reassuring words to people during the "rescue montage," or something.

 

[JtheDreamer]

They had a chance for Superman to speak, but it was decided that piss and explosions were worth more.

Excuse me, but did you just say "explosions"?

 

[Jason Kane]

Who's Robin?

Jason Todd obviously

 

[FunkMiller]

Excuse me, but did you just say "explosions"?

He'd have done a better job of BvS than Snyder.

Yeah, that's it, I went THERE.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

At least the pyrotechnics would've been real. Snyder even digifies Xplosions.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Jason Todd obviously

I don't remember that name being said in the movie

 

[Supa]

I'm pretty sure Robin was never given a name in the movie. The assumption is he's Jason Todd because he's the archetypal dead Robin, but then, all things considered with this movie, how valid is that evidence?

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah they killed Jimmy Olsen without ever naming him either. If Zack Snyder never said that, who would've ever really known.

I mean blog sites and Redditors said Scoot McNairy was going to play Jimmy Olsen.

 

[Loki882]

Which makes the whole "oh it's because of Robin dying" all the more unconvincing.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm pretty sure Robin was never given a name in the movie. The assumption is he's Jason Todd because he's the archetypal dead Robin, but then, all things considered with this movie, how valid is that evidence?

None. For al the audience knows that red suit was Batman's.

 

[Lencho01]

There's plenty of things fans or people somewhat familiar with these characters have to fill based on past comics, shows, and films rather than the film itself.

 

[jmc]

Nobody at WB listened to people telling them what was wrong with MoS. They buried their heads in the sand and placed all their chips in on hope, hope that their universe would be the counter punch to Marvel, all in one film, and all that ended up happening was they created a bigger mess for themselves. None of this would have happened if they just ****ing listened to anyone but themselves.

 

[Incarnadine]

There were 2 things that made it less enjoyable for me. One was the unrelenting depressing tone throughout the movie. I'm not saying go full on Deadpool humor but at least lighten the mood for a few minutes out of that 2 1/2 run time.
The second thing was I hated every single flashback and "dream" sequence. The only one with much relevance was Bruce Wayne running around during Superman's battle with Zod since it set the stage for the eventual suicide bombing.

I'll probably give it another viewing when it eventually comes on TV, but I have 0 interest on seeing it in the theaters again.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

The movie focused so much on world building that it actually forgot to tell its own story or develop its own story beyond the first draft idea stage. Maybe that is why the motivations of every character seem so muddled and confusing and contrived?

We get a shot of the dead Robin costume but we don't have the context explained to us, no mention of "ever since Robin's death you've been...." or anything like that. We get post apocalyptic visions and [blackout]The Flash traveling through time to warn Bruce about Superman turning evil and confirming those visions as real[/blackout] but its never mentioned or brought up again and doesn't impact the movie's story at all. Wonder Woman appears but she is never tied into the story of the movie or tied into the themes of the movie and exists in her own vacuum until she teams with Bats and Supes at the end, to set up Justice League. We get a whole scene of Wonder Woman watching a viral marketing video on her laptop to set up Justice League.

So many scenes seem to be there just to set up future movies and nothing else. None of those scenes are dovetailed into the main narrative. I don't mind throwaway mentions or shoutouts (like "we've had a history with guys dressed like clowns" and "I've fought beings from other worlds before") that set up future movies, that's cool. But did we need so many SCENES that only served the purpose of setting up other movies?

 

[Lencho01]

Nobody at WB listened to people telling them what was wrong with MoS. They buried their heads in the sand and placed all their chips in on hope, hope that their universe would be the counter punch to Marvel, all in one film, and all that ended up happening was they created a bigger mess for themselves. None of this would have happened if they just ****ing listened to anyone but themselves.

And it makes no sense how they have so many years of success outside of comics with these characters, that they didn't look to that as an influence other than the comics themselves.

They could've even created an already fairly set up universe ala the Young Justice toon and would've been fine if catching up to Marvel was that much of an issue for them. But, I doubt anyone is going to do that much work to create some sort of universe bible.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

With the way that Snyder thinks shooting Jimmy Olsen in the face right off is having fun with a fan favorite. It wouldn't surprise me if he merged Jason Todd with Dick Grayson.

Cause why not kill off Nightwing before he can be Nightwing?

That's totally fun right.

 

[Lencho01]

Snyder just getting rid of Superman characters left and right!

 

[Mr. Wayne]

The biggest problem to me is that there were 2 big ideas that needed 2 movies to develop and they stuffed both in one and accomplished neither. Either make BvS and focus on the 2 of them (and Lex as a plot device) for 2-2.5 hours and then go into WW and JL afterwards or scrap the BvS and just have the Trinity meet and team up after their initial conflicts. Focus on those 3 characters meeting and developing a proper rapport with each other(one where Supes and WW actually make eye contact and say more than 2 words to each other) and then even if you decide on killing Supes you can drop the breadcrumbs for Darkseid and the rest of he league in post credits sequences. The film wanted to do so much that it ended up not really doing any of it and that's a tragedy. I can still enjoy it for what it is but it's massively disappointing given the time they had to develop it and the cast they put together. The acting is severely let down by some very odd choices in the editing room and the writing process. It's not irredeemable but I would sincerely hope that being the scenes there is an effort to keep it simple and make sure the story makes complete sense. Seeing the BO numbers is very depressing to me an I have no financial stakes in it. MOS being a slight disappointment is one thing, wasting an amazing Batman performance and leaving potentially hundreds of millions of dollars on the table should surely inspire some dialogue between the creative team and the studio on what must change and improve.

 

[Jaxon]

Yeah they killed Jimmy Olsen without ever naming him either. If Zack Snyder never said that, who would've ever really known.

I mean blog sites and Redditors said Scoot McNairy was going to play Jimmy Olsen.

The point of the death was to raise the stakes in the movie, people die, there's s*** at stake. Made terrific impact. I mean Jimmy Olsen is just a fringe character that doesn't add to any story now or in the future. Killing him like that was nice.