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What would ruin,.. or what HAS ruined a hero for You?

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Of course I have a list,.. but in the interests of open convo will hold my arguement generating choices to myself for now.

But What would have to be done to your favorite characters to get you to consider dropping them?


In Marvel.


And TRY not to mention a writer and stop there.
 
Of course I have a list,.. but in the interests of open convo will hold my arguement generating choices to myself for now.

But What would have to be done to your favorite characters to get you to consider dropping them?


In Marvel.


And TRY not to mention a writer and stop there.

Spider-Man not being allowed to grow up.

I'm sick of Peter "Pan" Parker. Kill off the old crow, and let him live in happiness with his super-hot wife and some wee ones.
 
Let's see:

Spider-Man
The clone saga had me boycotting Pete until they fixed it.
OMD will probably have me doing the same.

X-Men
I boycotted when Onslaught came about, that was one of the worst things I've ever read. I'm still not buying X-Men because of it but I'll probably start again soon if Messiah Complex seems good.

Sentry
Boycotted for a stupid character that doesn't do anything.

Hulk
Nothing yet, but I have a bad feeling about the end of WWH making me not read the big green for a while.
 
I don't know specifically, but anything that changed the character. We all adopt and love certain characters based on who they are, not what situations they are in. If the characterization of a certain Marvel hero was altered, making him/her into someone else entirely, I might tune out.
 
What's being done right now to Spider-Man has been enough to get me drop the books. :(
 
I don't know specifically, but anything that changed the character. We all adopt and love certain characters based on who they are, not what situations they are in. If the characterization of a certain Marvel hero was altered, making him/her into someone else entirely, I might tune out.

Though sometimes changes in characters help...think about how many villains started out evil "just because".
 
The (post) Clone Saga. I had no interest in reading a Spider-Man book with someone other than Peter Parker as Spidey, so i dropped the books for the first time in my life. To this day, there's a sixteen month gap in my Amazing Spider-Man collection...


I also stopped reading X-Men around 1985 or so...it's been so long i forget, but it was when Cyclops, Nightcrawler, and Colossus (my three favorite X-Men, incidentally) were all written out of the book and replaced with lame-asses like Longshot and Dazzler...i hated that. Never actually got back into X-Men again either...

I guess basically, if you take my favorite character (s) out of their own books for very long, i eventually lose interest and move on...(Brubaker, im looking at YOU, lol :yay: )...
 
Spider-Man not being allowed to grow up.

I'm sick of Peter "Pan" Parker. Kill off the old crow, and let him live in happiness with his super-hot wife and some wee ones.

That's the main reason I don't read Ultimate Spiderman. Even listening to you guys talk about it second-hand,... he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes or improve as a character.

His being reduced to a noob in New Avengers didn't make me happy either. It's like those YEARS of fighting in mob scenes against the likes of the sinister six never happened.
 
That's the main reason I don't read Ultimate Spiderman. Even listening to you guys talk about it second-hand,... he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes or improve as a character.

His being reduced to a noob in New Avengers didn't make me happy either. It's like those YEARS of fighting in mob scenes against the likes of the sinister six never happened.

Well, in the current incarnation of New Avengers, he shouldn't be...but compared to Captain America, Wolverine and Iron Man...Spidey is a young pup.

Fighting the Sin Six, Carnage, or Venom isn't nearly as demanding as fighting The Red Skull, The Mandarin, Magneto, Kang etc. Most of Spidey's battles have been small scale compared to that.
 
Let's see:

Spider-Man
The clone saga had me boycotting Pete until they fixed it.
OMD will probably have me doing the same.

X-Men
I boycotted when Onslaught came about, that was one of the worst things I've ever read. I'm still not buying X-Men because of it but I'll probably start again soon if Messiah Complex seems good.

Sentry
Boycotted for a stupid character that doesn't do anything.

Hulk
Nothing yet, but I have a bad feeling about the end of WWH making me not read the big green for a while.

On the clone saga:
The premise was EXCELLENT - then they got stupid with the large number of Spiderclones and hashed the story.

OMD:
I've not read it yet and already don't like what I hear about it. If it's as bad as they say,.. I'll only be taking my spiderman where he guest stars because my Spiderman will be gone.
(So many rumors out - I just need to wait and see.)

The entire Onslaught thing? I read none of Heroes reborn because of it, Couldn't understand to this day how Mags + Charles = Onslaught.

The Hulk?
If he kills no one in WWH it would be the first step toward a deal breaker.
If he goes back to just Bouncing around the Midwest,.. then I'm done with him for a while.
 
I don't know specifically, but anything that changed the character. We all adopt and love certain characters based on who they are, not what situations they are in. If the characterization of a certain Marvel hero was altered, making him/her into someone else entirely, I might tune out.


I have to admit that I keep reading in the same way you stare at a train wreak when they suddenly write a character wrong.

I was like that when Spiderman told the world he was Peter Parker.

I have dropped entire comics when characters change too much. Thunderbolts Qualifies.
 
Well, in the current incarnation of New Avengers, he shouldn't be...but compared to Captain America, Wolverine and Iron Man...Spidey is a young pup.

Fighting the Sin Six, Carnage, or Venom isn't nearly as demanding as fighting The Red Skull, The Mandarin, Magneto, Kang etc. Most of Spidey's battles have been small scale compared to that.

Well other than the red skull (who's much more a planner than a fighter) a lot of Cap's rogue gallery isn't very impressive. Pete's rogues would slaughter Caps in a matchup, they're just much more powerful and numerous (Not counting all of Germany in WW2).

Iron-Man is really on a whole other power level.

Wolverine's bigger opponents are always confronted in a team, his stand alone fights aren't really against high level opponents (except Hulk who he matches very well). Guys like Sabertooth, Cyber, Silver Samurai and lady deathstrike would get murdered by venom, sandman, electro and many others.

Really if you look at it considering how many books Pete's been in he's the most experienced single person fighter out there. He's used to fighting greater numbers and far more powerful opponents who also sometimes show up in greater numbers as well. (I'm not saying he's never gotten additional help) Pete might be young but he's fought pretty much everyone in the MU and teamed up with at least half. I'm not saying he's the best, but a little more respect would be appropriate until Marvel completely ruins him for me.
 
Well other than the red skull (who's much more a planner than a fighter) a lot of Cap's rogue gallery isn't very impressive. Pete's rogues would slaughter Caps in a matchup, they're just much more powerful and numerous (Not counting all of Germany in WW2).

Iron-Man is really on a whole other power level.

Wolverine's bigger opponents are always confronted in a team, his stand alone fights aren't really against high level opponents (except Hulk who he matches very well). Guys like Sabertooth, Cyber, Silver Samurai and lady deathstrike would get murdered by venom, sandman, electro and many others.

Really if you look at it considering how many books Pete's been in he's the most experienced single person fighter out there. He's used to fighting greater numbers and far more powerful opponents who also sometimes show up in greater numbers as well. (I'm not saying he's never gotten additional help) Pete might be young but he's fought pretty much everyone in the MU and teamed up with at least half. I'm not saying he's the best, but a little more respect would be appropriate until Marvel completely ruins him for me.

Honestly, you're completely discounting all 3 characters team battles.

Captain America and Iron Man through the Avengers, have fought Loki, The Enchantress, The Executioner, Kang The Conqueror, Korvac...

Wolverine through his work with the X-Men, has had to deal with Magneto, Apocalypse, Juggernaut, and others.

All of those villains would eat any Spider-Man villain for breakfast.

Spider-Man deals with localized threats; threats on New York, threats on people he knows.

Comparing that to the villains that Cap, Iron Man, and Wolverine have dealt with, that's nothing.

Calling Spidey the most experienced fighter is also kind of foolish; you can't compare dealing with generic thugs, even superpowered ones. Even Carnage, Peter's most powerful foe, would be an easy battle for most Avengers villains. Kang has technology in his right pinky (literally) that would blow Carnage to smithereens; and Cap and Iron Man have fought him dozens of times, and lived through it.

You're also forgetting that Wolverine is literally, 100 years older than Peter; Wolverine already had extensive Samurai training, was a veteran of several wars, served as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, an assassin etc, before Peter was even born.

Now, I can see the argument that Peter has more battle experience than Stark, but given Stark's afluence, his position in society, his powerful suit of armor, and the fact that he is probably Peter's senior by 10-15 years, it's to be expected Peter would be treated like a kid.

I think Peter's abilities are definitely respected, but I would go around saying he had more experience than Wolverine or Captain America.


Damn, this post has made me miss the original New Avengers team: Spidey, Cap, Wolverine, and Iron Man on the same team? Talk about an all-star cast.
 
On the clone saga:
The premise was EXCELLENT - then they got stupid with the large number of Spiderclones and hashed the story.

OMD:
I've not read it yet and already don't like what I hear about it. If it's as bad as they say,.. I'll only be taking my spiderman where he guest stars because my Spiderman will be gone.
(So many rumors out - I just need to wait and see.)

The entire Onslaught thing? I read none of Heroes reborn because of it, Couldn't understand to this day how Mags + Charles = Onslaught.

The Hulk?
If he kills no one in WWH it would be the first step toward a deal breaker.
If he goes back to just Bouncing around the Midwest,.. then I'm done with him for a while.

I agree (that's weird, huh?) that the clone saga could have been great. If all the clones were like Kaine and a bit derranged and Pete had to round them up or something would have been a cool arc. Instead I get to be told my favorite character isn't even real anymore, but some bleach blonde backstreet boy with an outfit out of flashdance was.

I'll read and buy until they get rid of MJ then I'll drop, I want Marvel to understand this is the point they lost me, plus I'm praying its been a redherring and something else might occur.

Your math is correct, but what I really didn't like was the fact that they just figured more power = better story. It's a bad and stupid copout.

I'm kinda already done with the hulk when the Doc went down. I've seen strange steal the power from cosmic beings, its actually one of his regular spells. He could have just done that to the hulk and WWH is over with strange just standing there, but instead he takes power (which should have made him on par with galactus) and gets beaten by being punched? The Sentry fight will probably be the last straw for me. Another great idea killed in execution by the more power = better equation.
 
I agree (that's weird, huh?) that the clone saga could have been great. If all the clones were like Kaine and a bit derranged and Pete had to round them up or something would have been a cool arc. Instead I get to be told my favorite character isn't even real anymore, but some bleach blonde backstreet boy with an outfit out of flashdance was.

I'll read and buy until they get rid of MJ then I'll drop, I want Marvel to understand this is the point they lost me, plus I'm praying its been a redherring and something else might occur.

Your math is correct, but what I really didn't like was the fact that they just figured more power = better story. It's a bad and stupid copout.

I'm kinda already done with the hulk when the Doc went down. I've seen strange steal the power from cosmic beings, its actually one of his regular spells. He could have just done that to the hulk and WWH is over with strange just standing there, but instead he takes power (which should have made him on par with galactus) and gets beaten by being punched? The Sentry fight will probably be the last straw for me. Another great idea killed in execution by the more power = better equation.

Indeed. Doctor Strange could snuff out Bruce if he had to in a second.
 
I have to admit that I keep reading in the same way you stare at a train wreak when they suddenly write a character wrong.

I was like that when Spiderman told the world he was Peter Parker.

I have dropped entire comics when characters change too much. Thunderbolts Qualifies.

I read...I just don't buy...

though I do own the Sin's Past tpb...:csad:
 
I'll read and buy until they get rid of MJ then I'll drop, I want Marvel to understand this is the point they lost me, plus I'm praying its been a redherring and something else might occur.
MJ isn't leaving the book. In fact she is central to the first storyarc of BND.
 
Indeed. Doctor Strange could snuff out Bruce if he had to in a second.
To Pak's credit, Hulk didn't beat Zom straight up. Zom basically was owning Hulk until Strange saw that the power was harming innocent bystanders and seemed to be rejecting it when Hulk began to beat him back.
 
Honestly, you're completely discounting all 3 characters team battles.

Captain America and Iron Man through the Avengers, have fought Loki, The Enchantress, The Executioner, Kang The Conqueror, Korvac...

Wolverine through his work with the X-Men, has had to deal with Magneto, Apocalypse, Juggernaut, and others.

All of those villains would eat any Spider-Man villain for breakfast.

Spider-Man deals with localized threats; threats on New York, threats on people he knows.

Comparing that to the villains that Cap, Iron Man, and Wolverine have dealt with, that's nothing.

Calling Spidey the most experienced fighter is also kind of foolish; you can't compare dealing with generic thugs, even superpowered ones.

You're also forgetting that Wolverine is old enough to be Peter's great great great grandfather; Wolverine already had extensive Samurai training, was a veteran of several wars, served as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, an assassin etc, before Peter was even born.

Now, I can see the argument that Peter has more battle experience than Stark, but given Stark's afluence, his position in society, his powerful suit of armor, and the fact that he is probably Peter's senior by 10-15 years, it's to be expected Peter would be treated like a kid.

I think Peter's abilities are definitely respected, but I would go around saying he had more experience than Wolverine or Captain America.

No I'm not. I was saying pete has fought powerful groups on his own. Most of the power houses cap and logan have fought they've done as part of a team which would obviously make it easier for them. I did say iron man is on a whole other level. But if you consider stand alone villains for cap or logan like batroc, crossbones, king cobra (for cap) and lady deathstrike, sabertooth, cyber (for wolvie) they're get slaughtered by venom or carnage or sandman or electro.

Wolverine hasn't taken on Apoc as an individual only on a team with others, Pete's beaten Juggs, every time wolvie has fought mags alone he gets schooled. What I'm trying to explain is that wolvie and cap fight these upper level threats in a group whereas Spider-Man is generally on his own and out numbered. Respect.

Spider-man has literally fought almost everyone in the MU. He's been to space, fought thanos many times, beat firewalker (though that was bs IMO), He's been to many other dimensions and times, and every continent in the world except antartica (that I know of). Yeah he's mainly a NY guy, but you could say that about the avengers or X-men or in fact 90% of all MU heroes.

I'm not forgetting Wolverines training or history. But remember back in the day he wasn't fighting too many other supers just normal guys which is a cake walk for him. If your counting continitity then considering the numerous Spider-Man books, MTU, and guest appearences then he's in the top five of most experienced fighters in the MU.

I said Tony is on another level, though I'd say he could learn a few tricks about resourcefulness from him.

I wasn't saying he's better than cap or wolvie just that they should have shown him more respect in NA than just making him the funny guy that has problems with ninjas that he's beaten countless times by himself.
 

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