what would you like to see in season 2 of Wolverine and the X-Men

[Panthro]

I do agree that at best, the Xavier/Scott dynamic was not consistent. The "father/son" dynamic went instead to Logan; Xavier even calls him "son" at one point. I am always bemused by the fact that if Wolverine is such a terrific character, and he can be, why he is always outright stealing character dynamics from other X-Men in some comics or cartoons. I suppose the intention was to offer a "change", but the problem of the set up of the show is we saw so little of the "normal" X-Men that when they are immediately broken down, we don't know from what. The producers claim they were working from an idealized X-Men "you all know", but that is a cop-out. This show, like all comic cartoons, picks and chooses the best continuity and storyline bits from mainstream 616, the movies, prior cartoons and even Ultimate X-Men to weave together it's own bible. You cannot assume "it was just like it was in the comics". The idea was noble; they didn't want to "bore" people with too many episodes of set up since, they assumed after two cartoons and three films, the audience is aware of the premise and the main archetypes. The problem is building anything without a foundation may be faster, but it isn't as stable. I sensed that struggle throughout season one; that tug of war between characterization and plot/action oriented storyline with a check-list of what had to happen and who had to show up. More often than not in Season One, the latter won out. It isn't unusual for such struggles to occur in any 20 minute episode show or a debut season, but it is something I hope has been worked out for Season Two. I imagine no end of scripts had to be cut for time; many episodes were packed to the gills.

From what the show showed us, in the beginning Scott was Xavier's pet student, the one he seemed to reach out to and encourage the most...because Xavier had to; Scott was inept and introverted. However as the show goes on we see that Xavier has started to reach out more to Logan. Some saw it as simple necessity; Logan was the one willing to pull the team together, not Cyclops, and there was a whole time-line to save. Ideally the proper leadership back-up for Cyclops was usually Storm, but she doesn't sell as many action figures. There were moments where Future Xavier was quite cold towards Cyclops; when he, gasp, balked at Xavier seeing no option to deal with Phoenix rather than kill her in cold blood, Xavier shut him out of a psychic communication so abruptly that even Logan was caught off guard by it.

Therefore, my impression was that Xavier was disgusted with Scott in this show, seeing him as a pet student he once invested years of attention to who never met his potential when it mattered. Or even when it didn't. When Logan started to reach that pillar of being an X-Man with far less coddling in a far worse situation, it was natural for Xavier to then gravitate toward him.

Proving once and for all that you should never take the mythos for granted.

They could. Season One hinted at Kitty and Bobby being a "couple" but they didn't seem so exclusive that a triangle couldn't be formed with Colossus. Considering that virtually every other "X-Couple" from the comics has been seen as destined kismet by at least one or two cartoons so far (Scott/Jean, Rogue/Gambit, even Archangel/Psylocke showed up in the 90's show, very awkwardly), it always is stunning that Colossus/Kitty is virtually abandoned. Granted, Kitty wasn't even a cameo in the 90's show. EVOLUTION was really the show where it would have worked out as teen drama, but that ship has sailed. I mean even JOSS WHEDON liked it, people!

Usually in cartoons, all Colossus has been is a big metal guy who cares about his family, and nothing but his family. It would be good if he stuck around WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN's second season to do something else. Even Clark Kent occasionally flirts with Lois Lane. It is about time a cartoon tried to make him a genuine character, not a nice design, and we'll have to see if W&TXM season two is it. It would be an area where it could improve on what was done or not done the last two shows.

I'd like to see them at least give Colossus/Kitty a try.

 

[Dread]

Proving once and for all that you should never take the mythos for granted.

My philosophy, at least as a viewer, is that even if you assume your audience knows the material, a show has to have a foundation. Surely there was at least one episode to spare for the start of the show; did Silver Samurai REALLY HAVE to appear in Season One? I can imagine even with that extra episode, maybe thus stretching Hindsight to 4 chapters, Season One would have had more of an anchor and it would be clearer exactly what was destroyed by Jean's explosion. Rather than just a quick 5 minute rundown in flashbacks. But that's ancient history now I guess. Time to move forward.

I'd like to see them at least give Colossus/Kitty a try.

I would, too. Since it is obvious that Kyle, Johnson, Yost & Co. do like her.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Deadpool. And my wish has been fulfilled

 

[Mad Ones]

Some other random things I'd like:
- Storm getting an interesting sub-plot. Or at least do something as a character. It's a shame that she is never really portrayed interesting in cartoons.
- More time focused on Bobby and Kitty being young and in love, leading up to them finally dating. It could be cute.
- Rogue getting Ms Marvel's powers.
- Beast getting an episode focusing on him facing discrimination because of his physical mutations.
- Angel struggling with his Archangel persona.
- New Mutants and the X-men teaching.
- More camaraderie between the X-men. Like Danger Room fun and games (this is what I loved about Evo.)

So basically, I want a lot of character focus episodes and a great team episode. But it's more likely we'll get an epic storyline like last time. Which isn't the worst thing possible. I really did think the first season had a great storyline that it developed... but yeah, more time for characters, please.

I think this might be asking too much, because I also want a continuation of the Scott/Emma/Jean stuff, Nightcrawler and Wanda's relationship, and rebuilding of Genosha with Wanda as ruler. And of course Wolverine will have a bunch of episodes, and they need to fit Apocalypse in. Wow, this show takes on a lot of stuff! I think I'll be happy if they're able to accomplish half of this.

And I wonder if we'll see X-man or Cable this season. I know X-man was invovled in the actual Age of Apocalypse storyline, but maybe they'll choose to insert Cable in Nate's place because he's more well known.

 

[Panthro]

Some other random things I'd like:
- Storm getting an interesting sub-plot. Or at least do something as a character. It's a shame that she is never really portrayed interesting in cartoons.

I think we all want Storm to have something more interesting to do.

- Rogue getting Ms Marvel's powers.
- Beast getting an episode focusing on him facing discrimination because of his physical mutations.
- Angel struggling with his Archangel persona.

Agreed.

 

[Windrider]

Agreed. Give Storm some love. I would love to see a morlock episode with Storm defeating Callisto. I would also like to to see her going on her own to try to find Angel, and then getting some serious revenge on Sinister.

Oh and more team interaction, it doesn't even seem like their friends.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well Storm has the ongoing story with Archangel. She seemed to have a closer than friendship thing going on with Warren in season 1. But that could be me misreading things that was not the intent of the writers.

 

[bryanss3]

I'd like to see some other X-teams like X-Force and X-Factor. maybe in the AOA future we'll see the Xternals or X-Man or Cable in some way.

 

[Dread]

I did think it was heavily implied at least that Storm and Angel were dating. I mean they had to more or less say it because Ororo and Warren didn't speak to each other at all before that episode. And that is the sort of thing that has to change. You don't need to give every character 2-3 focus episodes a season if you simply give them steady development overall. Flash Thompson never upstaged Spider-Man in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN yet in 26 episodes he was a very fleshed character. It is possible to flesh out supporting characters without making them the star a few times, it just takes good writing.

I am in no rush to see Cable. Granted, they made Bishop tolerable, but Cable I usually can't stand. He's the walking embodiment of tacky, military-soaked 90's characters with giant guns and bigger shoulder-pads, with more attitude than character. For the life of me I have no clue why he's still around and equal ciphers like Blackwulf faded into deserved obscurity. His name barely even makes sense.

 

[Mad Ones]

I mostly agree with you about Cable, but I do like him as of right now. He has come a long way from the excess of the 90's, and actually has substance to him now. I like seeing him protecting a potential mutant messiah/destroyer. Although I assume you'll be right, and that if Cable is in this show he'll be "more attitude than character".

 

[Dread]

You have a point. Some have speculated that the reason Cable and Deadpool have escaped the 90's is because they have been written by people who sought to escape the limits of their origins and ciphers to do stuff with 'em. But I still don't care for Cable.

WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN for me made Bishop work by keeping his design simple, basically using the best elements, and making him shut up. In the comics, half of what he says is either, "I'm a cop from the future" or explaining his powers endlessly. In W&TXM, besides being voiced well, he became more of a stoic man of action, and that worked for him. Cable, though, has a tackier design. Plus, there is the temptation that W&TXM would go the Ultimate route with Cable, since in Ultimate X-Men, Cable was in fact Future Wolverine, rather than Scott's son. Which sucked.

 

[TheVileOne]

Dread, I don't think Ultimate Cable was Wolverine at all. It was probably just a guy that took Wolverine's severed forearm hand and claws that were all that was left of him after Magneto blew him to hell.

 

[Dread]

Dread, I don't think Ultimate Cable was Wolverine at all. It was probably just a guy that took Wolverine's severed forearm hand and claws that were all that was left of him after Magneto blew him to hell.

ULTIMATE X-MEN #75 and #76 state quite plainly that Ultimate Cable is a Future Wolverine.

To be fair, I actually don't think that Kyle & Johnson would do that. I think they're fanboys at heart who would prefer the "original" Cable, if they chose to use him. The dilemma would be how to handle him that doesn't just make him seem akin to Bishop on the show, or clashing with the role he filled in the future stories. The cynic in me thinks Cable would be a way they could sort of portray him as the man Cyclops failed to be, but we don't know what the script says yet. All we know is at the end of season one, the future has been altered so now Apocalypse rules everything with Mr. Sinister and Cyclops at his side. The design is AOA Cyclops who lost his eye. It will remain to be seen what is written as what.

That said, I'm not begging for Cable. There are far more characters I would rather see than Cable. His prime has been long over.

 

[Mad Ones]

I think signs point to one time-displaced child of Scott and Jean. Sinister took DNA from them under the orders of Apocalypse, apparently. And we're heading into Age of Apocalypse. I'm just wondering if they're going to go the comic-book route and have X-man be Sinister's weapon. Or if they'll modify it and keep it semi-true, with Cable instead of X-man because he's better known, more popular, and still relevant. Personally, I hope they use X-man.

 

[Max Shrek]

I think, ignoring how he's actually been handled or any of the 90s stuff, Cable has insane amounts of character potential. In a season of Apocalypse ruling the future, the idea of a tortured son of Scott and Jean, infected by a virus Apocalypse had inflicted on him is a brilliant one. Just go from there and scratch away all the 90s stuff and IMO you have the potential for genuine characterization and human drama than almost any other guest star, most of whom, let's face it, boil down to "I'm good and/or bad and have THIS power!". So if done properly, I think Cable could be magnificent.

 

[Dread]

That's the problem in general, though; guest stars should be more than a power and an affiliation. That said, you do have a point about Cable. It could be good if executed well. That's the rub, of course.

 

[Panthro]

I was strolling through a similar thread on IMDB (I know, a dangerous place to go) and someone actually said they wanted to see Madelyne Pryor, AKA: The Goblin Queen, AKA: The Other Jean Clone (not to be confused with the first clone that the Phoenix made of itself). Personally I think the series may have missed its chance for using her.


So, who wants to see Logan & Jean date for a few eps while Cyclops succumbs to the resurrected Emma Frost?

 

[Dread]

To be honest I wouldn't expect the clone Maddie Pryor to show up in any cartoon. That's quite a bit to handle. Audiences are not always receptive to clone sagas.

Although...and this is pure fan imaginations and not something I especially want or think is likely - when Archangel captured Cyclops and Jean, Jean was already there when Cyke woke up. She could have been swapped with a clone while the real Jean is elsewhere. So while I don't think Pryor will show up at all, I won't say they exactly "missed it's chance" for using her.

The problem with Pryor is that we would be completely rehashing the plot of Season 1; a search for Jean and trying to prevent a harsh alternate future. While the writers seem to want to do that with the latter, they don't need to go all the way with the former.

Having Jean drift towards Logan, whether Logan wants that or not, is the only way they could have Cyke pine for Frost without making him into a complete cad. I kind of doubt they are doing that, though. If anything, this show has jumped at the chance to show Cyclops as flawed or at his worst; I'd need to at least see a teaser before I believe otherwise for Season 2. Logan in this show is the paragon of virtue, morality, and X-Men ideals; he'd rather die than deliberately split up Scott/Jean at this point. Hell, he didn't even bother looking for her for a year.

 

[Panthro]

To be honest I wouldn't expect the clone Maddie Pryor to show up in any cartoon. That's quite a bit to handle. Audiences are not always receptive to clone sagas.

It wasn't exactly Cycke's finest hour either.

Although...and this is pure fan imaginations and not something I especially want or think is likely - when Archangel captured Cyclops and Jean, Jean was already there when Cyke woke up. She could have been swapped with a clone while the real Jean is elsewhere. So while I don't think Pryor will show up at all, I won't say they exactly "missed it's chance" for using her.

The problem with Pryor is that we would be completely rehashing the plot of Season 1; a search for Jean and trying to prevent a harsh alternate future. While the writers seem to want to do that with the latter, they don't need to go all the way with the former.

That would suck.

Having Jean drift towards Logan, whether Logan wants that or not, is the only way they could have Cyke pine for Frost without making him into a complete cad. I kind of doubt they are doing that, though. If anything, this show has jumped at the chance to show Cyclops as flawed or at his worst; I'd need to at least see a teaser before I believe otherwise for Season 2. Logan in this show is the paragon of virtue, morality, and X-Men ideals; he'd rather die than deliberately split up Scott/Jean at this point. Hell, he didn't even bother looking for her for a year.

That's what happens when Cyclops is defined only by negative traits while Wolverine is defined only by positive traits. And Jean... was just there, very briefly. Judging by Greg Johnson's interview, the impression I got was that he felt that he & his fellow writers had not done anything wrong with Cycke's arc, so things aren't likely to get better for him (not with the AoA teaser at the end of season 1).

 

[Dread]

Even if they may not admit any "errors" to fans at a con, especially as Season One is still unfolding in the states on NickToons and selling DVD's from Lion's Gate, there is usually always some improvement in a second season if the writing time is any good. Issues with season one aside, this is a good writing team; that is why my expectations are high. There's a chance things could improve for Cyke.

To be fair, even if they usually wrote him as quite an unsympathetic, perpetually flawed wreck, Cyclops did get some good fight sequences. His battle with Arclight was pretty damn good. Unlike Wolverine, zapping people with energy beams is usually fine with network censors.

Season 2 will be a challenge to handle; hopefully they're up to the task. If anything, Cyclops "becoming the hero we know him to be" should happen this season, since circumstances more or less played out for him in Season 1; he didn't really step up.

 

[Max Shrek]

To be honest I wouldn't expect the clone Maddie Pryor to show up in any cartoon. That's quite a bit to handle. Audiences are not always receptive to clone sagas.

I think Pryor and stuff is too convoluted for TV. One of my favorite things about TV adaptations of comics is they take tons of years of complicated history and boil it down to one simple idea.

COMICS: Jean was actually the Phoenix, it was a manifestation of her powers. BUT (due to "she killed a planet?!" that the TV show didn't have to deal with) later it was revealed, "No, no, that wasn't actually Jean!" There was a Phoenix Force that took Jean's form and the real Jean is under the water, but the Phoenix Force is still somehow connected to Jean, because at random times, she could show signs of getting the powers back and...
90s TV SHOW: The Phoenix Force possessed Jean.

Simple! Easy to understand, get on with the story. That's why IF Cable appears, just go the Phoenix route and just say "He's Cyclops and Jean's son from the future; he has a technovirus from Apocalypse and has traveled back in time," instead of all the stuff with him being born of Cyclops and Madelyne Pryor and then he got infected and was sent into the future to live with some crazy woman or whatever.

 

[Dread]

I think Pryor and stuff is too convoluted for TV. One of my favorite things about TV adaptations of comics is they take tons of years of complicated history and boil it down to one simple idea.

COMICS: Jean was actually the Phoenix, it was a manifestation of her powers. BUT (due to "she killed a planet?!" that the TV show didn't have to deal with) later it was revealed, "No, no, that wasn't actually Jean!" There was a Phoenix Force that took Jean's form and the real Jean is under the water, but the Phoenix Force is still somehow connected to Jean, because at random times, she could show signs of getting the powers back and...
90s TV SHOW: The Phoenix Force possessed Jean.

Simple! Easy to understand, get on with the story. That's why IF Cable appears, just go the Phoenix route and just say "He's Cyclops and Jean's son from the future; he has a technovirus from Apocalypse and has traveled back in time," instead of all the stuff with him being born of Cyclops and Madelyne Pryor and then he got infected and was sent into the future to live with some crazy woman or whatever.

You do have a point. When such "simplification" is done well, it can be quite good. Bishop I would argue benefited from it in Season One. It is possible Cable could in Season 2. The both of them are essentially the same character, though. On the other hand, I could imagine the writers using Cable to go, "This is what Cyclops could be, if he was actually competent and not emo". Cable was usually all business, almost to the point of parody.

That said, I personally don't care for Cable, and got my fill of him in the 90's series, where he appeared quite often.

 

[Panthro]

I know it's not gonna happen, but I'd like to see the public addressing whether or not other movers & shakers & costumed adventurers like The Incredible Hulk, The Mighty Thor & Spider-Man are mutants.

 

[Dread]

That depends on how many other heroes will have cameo appearances in W&TXM. So far it has only been the Hulk. Historically, Captain America has shown up in both prior ones (because he's another fellow Logan has met, natch), so I would be surprised if we went another season without Cap. By and large, most X-Men cartoons seem to limit the amount of non-mutant or alien superhumans. Probably because trying to explain why non-mutant heroes are automatically not hated as much as mutants may be seen as too much for a TV audience.

To give credit, Bendis in USM constantly had cops and others presuming Spider-Man was a mutant. But that rarely happened in 616 beyond Magneto or the X-Men needing an excuse to guest star or have a guest star in their book in the 60's.

 

[Panthro]

That depends on how many other heroes will have cameo appearances in W&TXM. So far it has only been the Hulk. Historically, Captain America has shown up in both prior ones (because he's another fellow Logan has met, natch), so I would be surprised if we went another season without Cap. By and large, most X-Men cartoons seem to limit the amount of non-mutant or alien superhumans. Probably because trying to explain why non-mutant heroes are automatically not hated as much as mutants may be seen as too much for a TV audience.

To give credit, Bendis in USM constantly had cops and others presuming Spider-Man was a mutant. But that rarely happened in 616 beyond Magneto or the X-Men needing an excuse to guest star or have a guest star in their book in the 60's.

I just think it would be an interesting topic to bring up, along with certain X-Men expressing jealousy/disdain at the double standard of seeing super-powered types like the Fantastic Four get treated as celebrities while mutants themselves are treated like dirt.