What would you want to see in another Hulk movie?

[Dark Raven]

What bike helmet scene are people talking about in Hulk?

 

[Obi-Ron]

What bike helmet scene are people talking about in Hulk?

Lab asst Harper sees Dr Banner "Krenzler" in his bike helmet and says "You look like a massive dork, even to other scientists."

 

[Shoggoth]

One thing I'd really love to see in a new HULK film would be a completely savage Hulk, not savage in a HULK continuity sense but crazy and uncontrollable, pure rage and destroying everything in sight...an anti-hero in the truest sense without destroying the HULK mythology

 

[El Payaso]

I like the take they have on the Avengers cartoon show. He is far from a brute. The Hulk is angry but he makes heroic choices and can comunicate with other characters. He can also stay still and in control. Also is in constant discussion with Banner for control. Its a perfect take on the character imo

That sounds more like the completely opposite to what he's supposed to be.

 

[greenrage36]

I like the take they have on the Avengers cartoon show. He is far from a brute. The Hulk is angry but he makes heroic choices and can comunicate with other characters. He can also stay still and in control. Also is in constant discussion with Banner for control. Its a perfect take on the character imo

I agree with this very much. I have been shocked how well he has been portrayed in the series..if the movie can get even 60% of their portrayal I'd be happy..

 

[Gamma Ra]

I know. I mean, it tends to do that.

That doesn't mean it was made for laughs.



Do your friends think that, say, Oedipus is too tragic and needs some comedy somewhere in between?

The bear scene was funny nonetheless.

I don't understand your Oedipus connection, please elaborate?

 

[Gamma Ra]

Don't exaggerate. Besides, even Shakespeare put jokes in his tragedies.

Good point.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I like the take they have on the Avengers cartoon show. He is far from a brute. The Hulk is angry but he makes heroic choices and can comunicate with other characters. He can also stay still and in control. Also is in constant discussion with Banner for control. Its a perfect take on the character imo

Ever see the Shaw Brothers movie 8 Diagram Pole Fighters? Great flick.

I like the Hulk's portrayal for the show. He. pretty much the Gravage Hulk from the comic books with a little of Gray Hulk's sense of humor. When he gets pissed he starts speaking in third person like the Savage Hulk. They did a better job with him than I expected.

That sounds more like the completely opposite to what he's supposed to be.

Just curious, what is he supposed to be?

 

[El Payaso]

The bear scene was funny nonetheless.

Yes, but not as an attempt to pout comedy in Hulk.

I don't understand your Oedipus connection, please elaborate?

As many other tragedies, Oedipus could have had comedy in it, but it works pretty well without it. So comedy is not mandatory to everything, my original point.

Just curious, what is he supposed to be?

A brute, a beast, driven by rage, unable to understand things as we do, the opposite of calm Dr. Banner. It really comes as a surprise that this is elusive to you.

 

[Gamma Ra]

As many other tragedies, Oedipus could have had comedy in it, but it works pretty well without it. So comedy is not mandatory to everything, my original point.

I agree that comedy is "mandatory to everything" but it doesn't hurt the tone or mood of a film, even serious ones, as I've showed in the examples in my above posts.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that note.

A brute, a beast, driven by rage, unable to understand things as we do, the opposite of calm Dr. Banner. It really comes as a surprise that this is elusive to you.

That's not the Incredible Hulk that I grew up reading ever since 1978 or 1979. Not for nothing, but I've read every issue of his comic and just about everything he's ever appeared in and you view of him is not what the character was created to be, nor what he is today. It is one facet of the character, but not the entirety of him. It was the television show that started this "creature driven by rage" tag line, while missing the point that Hulk is supposed to be a "Misunderstood Monster."

What is said about his origins is the Hulk to me...

[YT]ETPYe6LEOIo[/YT]

 

[El Payaso]

I agree that comedy is "mandatory to everything" but it doesn't hurt the tone or mood of a film, even serious ones, as I've showed in the examples in my above posts.

I agree. But sadly the vast majority of times, it's the opposite.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that note.

We actually agree.

That's not the Incredible Hulk that I grew up reading ever since 1978 or 1979. Not for nothing, but I've read every issue of his comic and just about everything he's ever appeared in and you view of him is not what the character was created to be, nor what he is today. It is one facet of the character, but not the entirety of him.

What the character was created was, more or less, what it is today: the opposite of Banner. Banner was puny, weak and timid, Hulk was big, strong and aggressive. Banner had thee brains, Hulk just the strenght but was essentially a brute.

I know they have made crap like a female Hulk, a planet with Hulks, a brainy Hulk or a bouncer Hulk, okay. That might work in comics. But the essence is that Hulk is a brute.

It was the television show that started this "creature driven by rage" tag line, while missing the point that Hulk is supposed to be a "Misunderstood Monster."

I'm sorry? The TV show showed a Hulk that saved lives, was inherently heroic and kind to animals and children and yet he was chased as a criminal and people were afraid of him, even those he was being kind to. And they missed the "misunderstood monster" angle? Don't think so.

But Hulk is driven by rage. And by his kindness. But one thing he's not supposed to be is intelligent.

What is said about his origins is the Hulk to me...

[YT]ETPYe6LEOIo[/YT]

Loved the video.

Stan compares Hulk with the Frankenstein monster saying that he "didn't know what he was doing" and "looks and act like a monster." Missed the bit where he was supposed to be an intelligent being. Lee even said that he chose green for the creature because it was "kind of spooky and depressing."

I also noticed how Stan refered to the TV series: "Every change [in the TV series] was an improvement." And also said something that I'll make my signature: "You can't exactly replicate anything from one form of the media to the other. Things that work perfectly in comics won't work perfectly in mvoies," when talking about why Hulk didn't talk. Something Stan said wouldn't have worked.

 

[misjuevos]

i actually want to follow him as he jumps through the air see his perspective as he travels miles in a single leap. we do it with flying characters why not the hulk.

 

[Gamma Ra]

646085]What the character was created was, more or less, what it is today: the opposite of Banner. Banner was puny, weak and timid, Hulk was big, strong and aggressive. Banner had thee brains, Hulk just the strenght but was essentially a brute.

To my knowledge, it has never been suggested or stated by Marvel that Hulk and Banner are diametrically opposite. Though they physically and mentally differ, that in itself does not signify a complete difference.

Both Hulk and Banner tend to care for and some times are even in love with the same people. Both Hulk and Banner both tend to agree on who their enemy is. Both have heroic tendencies. Both tend to be impulsive i.e. Banner running to the bomb site. These are just a few of the common traits

I know they have made crap like a female Hulk, a planet with Hulks, a brainy Hulk or a bouncer Hulk, okay. That might work in comics. But the essence is that Hulk is a brute.

I disagree. What proof do you have that it won't work?

I agree that all Hulks aside from the Banner-Hulk and Merged Hulk tend to be brutish, but none of them except Savage, because he is like a child wilth unlimited strength, lack average intelligence. As early as TIH #3 it showed Hulk using his intelligence to outsmart Metal Master, the Hulk's intelligence started to wain during the Tales to Astonish era up until about TIH #272. The Savage Hulk has only been seen a handful of times in over 25 years.

I'm sorry? The TV show showed a Hulk that saved lives, was inherently heroic and kind to animals and children and yet he was chased as a criminal and people were afraid of him, even those he was being kind to. And they missed the "misunderstood monster" angle? Don't think so.

Nothing to be sorry about...but heck Rin Tin Tin and Lassie saved lives and Lassie showed more intelligence than the TV Hulk. That crap is not the Hulk that is iconic or has lasted 50 years, is it?

But Hulk is driven by rage. And by his kindness. But one thing he's not supposed to be is intelligent.

Rage certainly is core to the character, but rage is not the only thing that drives Hulk. His loyalty to friends and desire to belong has also put him in compromising positions.

Loved the video.

Stan compares Hulk with the Frankenstein monster saying that he "didn't know what he was doing" and "looks and act like a monster." Missed the bit where he was supposed to be an intelligent being. Lee even said that he chose green for the creature because it was "kind of spooky and depressing."

Did you see the part where he stated "People often ask him does he resent that the Hulk was changed for the series?" which means I'm not the only one and that it must bother quite a few people...often enough. By intelligence, I just mean the ability to communicate.

Did you also see the part where he stated that “another thing Ken did well was only have the hulk appear at the beginning and end of the show?” maybe because a pure animalistic “brute” is uninteresting and the quicker you get him off the screen the better?

I also noticed how Stan refered to the TV series: "Every change [in the TV series] was an improvement." And also said something that I'll make my signature: "You can't exactly replicate anything from one form of the media to the other. Things that work perfectly in comics won't work perfectly in mvoies," when talking about why Hulk didn't talk. Something Stan said wouldn't have worked.

I disagree with both Stan's agreement to Kenneth Johnson's belief that it'd look stupid if Hulk talked in the show. It never happened, so we won't know. Did it look stupid in either Film when Hulk or Abomination spoke?

Before I posted the link, I stated I like what Stan states about the "origins" of the character and not the TV show. The Show was Ken Johnson's view of Hulk and the most memorable thing about the show was Bixby's Banner. There were a few good Hulk moments, but when people speak of the show they usually talk of Bixby and not the title character.

I don't believe all things comic book translate well to screen, nor have I advanced that argument, but Hulk talking is not one of them.

 

[El Payaso]

To my knowledge, it has never been suggested or stated by Marvel that Hulk and Banner are diametrically opposite. Though they physically and mentally differ, that in itself does not signify a complete difference.

Both Hulk and Banner tend to care for and some times are even in love with the same people. Both Hulk and Banner both tend to agree on who their enemy is. Both have heroic tendencies. Both tend to be impulsive i.e. Banner running to the bomb site. These are just a few of the common traits

But of course. The TV series itself stated that strongly. The Hulk won't kill because Banner won't kill. And Hulk always knew who were the good guys, because Banner knew.

I disagree. What proof do you have that it won't work?

In this case, just as when you think of Bat-myte, Zebra-Batman or Mr. Mxyzptlk, we'd better not have real evidence of things like a female Hulk, a planet with Hulks, a brainy Hulk or a bouncer Hulk, and just rely on common sense.

I agree that all Hulks aside from the Banner-Hulk and Merged Hulk tend to be brutish, but none of them except Savage, because he is like a child wilth unlimited strength, lack average intelligence. As early as TIH #3 it showed Hulk using his intelligence to outsmart Metal Master, the Hulk's intelligence started to wain during the Tales to Astonish era up until about TIH #272. The Savage Hulk has only been seen a handful of times in over 25 years.

And yet the Hulk is defined by a "Hulk smash!" kind of thing and not by his exceptional brains. Like when he met Spiderman and was in front of a leaking dam. The Hulk asked the dam why it was leaking and, as a reaction to the lack of answer from the dam, Hulk smashed it and flooded the whole place. No, intelligence is not what defines Hulk.

Nothing to be sorry about...but heck Rin Tin Tin and Lassie saved lives and Lassie showed more intelligence than the TV Hulk. That crap is not the Hulk that is iconic or has lasted 50 years, is it?

In fact, it is.

That's why no movie or incarnation have ignored the enormous contribution of the series. That's why the mess Hulk was ijn the first 5 issues led him to early cancelation.

And no. Just like Lassie, Hulk knew who to save and how. But Hulk was worlds cooler than the dog. And yes, driven by rage, as much as by instinct. The example of Hulk and the dam makes me think Lassie was indeed more intelligent than he was.

Rage certainly is core to the character, but rage is not the only thing that drives Hulk. His loyalty to friends and desire to belong has also put him in compromising positions.

I think it was me who said, "Hulk is driven by rage. And by his kindness." So yes, not only rage. No need to correct what's not wrong.

Did you see the part where he stated "People often ask him does he resent that the Hulk was changed for the series?" which means I'm not the only one and that it must bother quite a few people...often enough.

Did you see the part where the very creator of Hulk was pleased with every change it was made?

By intelligence, I just mean the ability to communicate.

With that I can agree. Ability to communicate, not to plan elaborated strategies.

Did you also see the part where he stated that “another thing Ken did well was only have the hulk appear at the beginning and end of the show?” maybe because a pure animalistic “brute” is uninteresting and the quicker you get him off the screen the better?

It was after he stated that he created Dr. Banner because he thought himself that the Hulk in comics would be uninteresting to be there in every page.

And no. What Stan Lee said was that by showing little of Hulk they were actually boosting the character. And that was why the series appealed to adults as much as children. Not for nothing the series is still more popular than the comics around the world.

I disagree with both Stan's agreement to Kenneth Johnson's belief that it'd look stupid if Hulk talked in the show. It never happened, so we won't know. Did it look stupid in either Film when Hulk or Abomination spoke?

Actually a little bit, yes. Specially when he thrown those action movie cliche lines like "That's all you've got." But it wasn't that terrible either.

Now, I respect the right to disagree, but being Stan Lee one of the very best comic book creators of all times - and the series the main referent of the character for decades for the general audience - you won't mind if I take his opinion over yours. After all, you brought him here to back your opinion up but you don't actually agree with the man. Just with a couple of lines he said.

Before I posted the link, I stated I like what Stan states about the "origins" of the character and not the TV show. The Show was Ken Johnson's view of Hulk and the most memorable thing about the show was Bixby's Banner. There were a few good Hulk moments, but when people speak of the show they usually talk of Bixby and not the title character.

You sure they don't talk about how exciting was to wait for the moment Banner was in problems and the Hulk appeared? Lee himself said how people were absolutely excited about the Hulk because he always came to save the day.

I don't believe all things comic book translate well to screen, nor have I advanced that argument, but Hulk talking is not one of them.

What evidence do we have? He had never thrown one of his speeches yet. But I do admit that it might be interesting to try. That, but no further than that so as Hulk gives an intelligent speech.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I just got the special edition DVD for Father's Day. I like the movie even more now than in '08. I just hope that if the Hulk is given another solo movie, the studio doesn't keep going with the connections to the TV series. Fans of the TV series (I'm certainly NOT in that group) got Lou, and an homage to the series opening credits. Be happy with that, people.

Also, I have a couple of questions. Does anyone remember Bruce, in the hotel room, asking Betty "where did you find purple pants?" That wasn't on the DVD. Maybe I just imagined it.

And was the scene with the security guard (Ferrigno) getting bribed with pizza in the theatrical release?

 

[Obi-Ron]

Also, I have a couple of questions. Does anyone remember Bruce, in the hotel room, asking Betty "where did you find purple pants?" That wasn't on the DVD. Maybe I just imagined it.

She had bought a pair when she went supply shopping (when she replaced Bruce's watch) but Bruce pooh-poohed them like they were Bubo in Clash of the Titans. "But these were the stretchiest they had!"

And was the scene with the security guard (Ferrigno) getting bribed with pizza in the theatrical release?

"God bless you brotha." Yup

 

[Gamma Ra]

Originally Posted by El Payaso
In this case, just as when you think of Bat-myte, Zebra-Batman or Mr. Mxyzptlk, we'd better not have real evidence of things like a female Hulk, a planet with Hulks, a brainy Hulk or a bouncer Hulk, and just rely on common sense.

As I've mentioned not everything translate. Some of the Bat things you've mentioned...maybe not but if Q could work in Star Trek then so could Mr. Mxyzptlk, if done right. As far as the Hulk stuff goes, it's been set up in the movies with the Sterns, He engineered Bruce's blood so all types of Gamma creatures are possible.

And yet the Hulk is defined by a "Hulk smash!" kind of thing and not by his exceptional brains. Like when he met Spiderman and was in front of a leaking dam. The Hulk asked the dam why it was leaking and, as a reaction to the lack of answer from the dam, Hulk smashed it and flooded the whole place. No, intelligence is not what defines Hulk.

I never said intelligence defined 'Savage Hulk' incarnation, and all his incarnations tend to say "Smash," not just Savage, it's just his signature saying.

Quote:
In fact, it is.

That's why no movie or incarnation have ignored the enormous contribution of the series. That's why the mess Hulk was ijn the first 5 issues led him to early cancelation.

Yet it's the same Hulk that has been around for the last 12 years?? Go figure.

Quote:
And no. Just like Lassie, Hulk knew who to save and how. But Hulk was worlds cooler than the dog. And yes, driven by rage, as much as by instinct. The example of Hulk and the dam makes me think Lassie was indeed more intelligent than he was.

Again that's the TV version that lasted 5 years not the Hulk that has lasted 50 years.

Quote:

I think it was me who said, "Hulk is driven by rage. And by his kindness." So yes, not only rage. No need to correct what's not wrong.

I didn't see "kindness" until this point. You keep pushing the 'rage' as if that is his only drive. I pointed out that that's not his only drive.

Quote:
Did you see the part where the very creator of Hulk was pleased with every change it was made?

Yes, and that's where I and many other Hulk fans and fans in general disagree with Stan and Kenneth. No one who is a Hulk purists that I know of thinks of the television show as the epitome of what Hulk is.

Quote:
It was after he stated that he created Dr. Banner because he thought himself that the Hulk in comics would be uninteresting to be there in every page.

Well he's wrong, I know a few guys who'd like Hulk to be rid of Bruce and not the other way around.

To clear this up, if you read what I posted above, I only posted the video because of what Stan said about the origin of the character, which is what the comic book is still based around, because you'll get the idea that Hulk is more than 'rage' and not because I think Stan is the end all to be all.

Quote:
And no. What Stan Lee said was that by showing little of Hulk they were actually boosting the character. And that was why the series appealed to adults as much as children. Not for nothing the series is still more popular than the comics around the world.

He with a laugh "he did what he had to do and they got rid of him real fast." Hulk had nothing to him in the show. He was a plot device win and not a true developed character. I agree more people have seen the show than have read the comic, but that holds true for all Superheroes in the different media. Right?

Quote:
Actually a little bit, yes. Specially when he thrown those action movie cliche lines like "That's all you've got." But it wasn't that terrible either.

You're the only person I've seen say that.

Quote:
Now, I respect the right to disagree, but being Stan Lee one of the very best comic book creators of all times - and the series the main referent of the character for decades for the general audience - you won't mind if I take his opinion over yours. After all, you brought him here to back your opinion up but you don't actually agree with the man. Just with a couple of lines he said.

I respect all your and everyones opinions.

Quote:
You sure they don't talk about how exciting was to wait for the moment Banner was in problems and the Hulk appeared? Lee himself said how people were absolutely excited about the Hulk because he always came to save the day.

People say a lot of things. As you've pointed out, more people know the show, which is what most of the film makers have referenced, but the show is based around a character with a longer standing and richer history and better characterization.

We should do a poll to see ho many people prefer the TV Hulk to the Hulk' that can articulate themselves.

Quote:
What evidence do we have? He had never thrown one of his speeches yet. But I do admit that it might be interesting to try. That, but no further than that so as Hulk gives an intelligent speech.

You're acting like I'm saying Hulk should give his dissertation before the audience, NO, he should be able to speak like any normal person like he does in the comics today and all but a few issues in the comics.

 

[El Payaso]

As I've mentioned not everything translate. Some of the Bat things you've mentioned...maybe not but if Q could work in Star Trek then so could Mr. Mxyzptlk, if done right. As far as the Hulk stuff goes, it's been set up in the movies with the Sterns, He engineered Bruce's blood so all types of Gamma creatures are possible.

If Stern appears with muscles, red t-shirt with a ray on it, and that eye patch, then it won't work very seriousily. Sadly I can't comment on Q since I've never seen that series.

Now, multiple Hulks are just like multiple vigilantes in Batman that are as prepared as he is. Or twenty super-powered Kryptonians. The novelty of the main character fades away.

I never said intelligence defined 'Savage Hulk' incarnation, and all his incarnations tend to say "Smash," not just Savage, it's just his signature saying.

Nor did I. I said that intelligence didn't define "Hulk."

Yet it's the same Hulk that has been around for the last 12 years?? Go figure.

Yeah, things that would look bad in movies can perfectly work in comics, remember your video?

Again that's the TV version that lasted 5 years not the Hulk that has lasted 50 years.

I don't think any series has lasted for 50 years so it's virtually impossible to have a fair competition under this somewhat absurd concept that the more something lasts the better it automatically is. Arrested Development last 3 seasons and Two and a half Men, a lot more.

I didn't see "kindness" until this point. You keep pushing the 'rage' as if that is his only drive. I pointed out that that's not his only drive.

No. I included something else other than rage. And after that you just ignored it. Now you recognize I included something else other than rage, and yet you ignore it again.

Yes, and that's where I and many other Hulk fans and fans in general disagree with Stan and Kenneth. No one who is a Hulk purists that I know of thinks of the television show as the epitome of what Hulk is.

Well he's wrong, I know a few guys who'd like Hulk to be rid of Bruce and not the other way around.

To clear this up, if you read what I posted above, I only posted the video because of what Stan said about the origin of the character, which is what the comic book is still based around, because you'll get the idea that Hulk is more than 'rage' and not because I think Stan is the end all to be all.

Now the mere idea that Hulk purists are more purists than the very man who created the concept of Hulk itself is interesting, somehow a little delirious.

But however the thing goes, you brought that video to the discussion yourself, so I thought you might as well, you know, agree with it. If you don't, pick better next time because now that door has been already opened.

He with a laugh "he did what he had to do and they got rid of him real fast."

Before or after saying "Every change [in the TV series] was an improvement"?

Hulk had nothing to him in the show. He was a plot device win and not a true developed character. I agree more people have seen the show than have read the comic, but that holds true for all Superheroes in the different media. Right?

So, how many years the comic has been out there doesn't count for much, does it?

People say a lot of things.

Oh. So why did you even bother to bring Stan lee here if you consider he was just saying a lot of things?

As you've pointed out, more people know the show, which is what most of the film makers have referenced, but the show is based around a character with a longer standing and richer history and better characterization.

Which I'm not opposed to. As long as it doesn't go against the core of the character. Hulk is the monster, have him sopeaking if you must, but don't turn him into a intelligent reflective sort of character.

We should do a poll to see ho many people prefer the TV Hulk to the Hulk' that can articulate themselves.

You know that people say a lot of things, so what would be proving? Now a poll where? Here, where no more than 100-200 comic fans would vote?

You're acting like I'm saying Hulk should give his dissertation before the audience, NO, he should be able to speak like any normal person like he does in the comics today and all but a few issues in the comics.

No. If he must speak, he should speak like Hulk speaks and not "like any normal person" would do.

 

[The Sarge]

I would actually like to see Abomination make a comeback in the sequel.
I would like to see him realize that he's now stuck in the grotesque form he mow has, without the benefit of reverting back like banner. What DOES he do now that he has this powerful (dickless) body? The abomination is even more tragic than the hulk, and he has a whole side to his story still unexplored.
Perhaps he teams up with the Leader in an attempt to figure out HOW to turn back like banner does? Whichever, I think he has the most interesting storyline.

 

[Gamma Ra]

If Stern appears with muscles, red t-shirt with a ray on it, and that eye patch, then it won't work very seriousily. Sadly I can't comment on Q since I've never seen that series.

I don't get your statement. Leader never appeared in the comics that way. The only time I remember Leader having muscles was in an episode of the 1996 cartoon where he wanted the Hulk's strength to go with his brains.

Q had pretty much the same ability as Mxlpltlk and it worked in Star Trek.

Now, multiple Hulks are just like multiple vigilantes in Batman that are as prepared as he is. Or twenty super-powered Kryptonians. The novelty of the main character fades away.

I totally disagree. In this instance, story and script would come into play. It's no more than introducing more Jedi in a story. Luke is still Luke regardless, Vader Vader and Obi-Wan Obi-Wan. It all comes down to story and execution.

Nor did I. I said that intelligence didn't define "Hulk."

Nor does intelligence define most characters or people, but we have and use what we got. Let me clear up what I mean by 'Intelligence.' I simply mean - the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason.

As I've stated the majority of Banner's Hulk incarnation show at least average and if not better intelligence. At times they have been shown to access the knowledge in Banners mind.

Yeah, things that would look bad in movies can perfectly work in comics, remember your video?

I don't know why you bring up the video, as I stated the sole purpose was to show you the original roots of the character, not that I aggreed with Stan's agreement with Kenneth Johnson's view, because I definitely don't.

Why beat a dead horse, I already agreed that everything does not translate well.

I don't think any series has lasted for 50 years so it's virtually impossible to have a fair competition under this somewhat absurd concept that the more something lasts the better it automatically is. Arrested Development last 3 seasons and Two and a half Men, a lot more.

I'm using round numbers, but the character of the Hulk was created in 1962, almost 50 years ago, and he's still in existence in comics and other media.

Your argument is like the new Coke vs the old Coke. They changed the formula and people got pissed, because it wasn't the same Coka Cola that they grew up on. sure somebody liked it, but the demand for the original was so high, they were forced to change it back. Though it had the name, it lacked the flavor. It was just LACKING.

No. I included something else other than rage. And after that you just ignored it. Now you recognize I included something else other than rage, and yet you ignore it again.

If you did, my apologies.

Now the mere idea that Hulk purists are more purists than the very man who created the concept of Hulk itself is interesting, somehow a little delirious.

Yet after the show ended, Stan wrote at least two three Hulk stories that I can think of, and none of them had Kenneth Johnson's non-articulate Hulk in them?!? Go figure.

But however the thing goes, you brought that video to the discussion yourself, so I thought you might as well, you know, agree with it. If you don't, pick better next time because now that door has been already opened.

Talk about ignoring something...I've told you the video was strictly what Stan mentioned about the origin of Hulk, not Kenneth Johnnson's version of Hulk years later. What Stan said of his ideas of the origin of the Hulk is the ONLY reason I posted that vid, and that is what the Hulk still is in the comics ABOUT 50 years later. The comic version has that lasting power.

Before or after saying "Every change [in the TV series] was an improvement"?

You're trying to force an argument I haven't advanced. For the nth time I disagree with Stan's view on that. If Stan thought it was so much of an improvement, why after the show ended, he wrote a Hulk that speaks?

So, how many years the comic has been out there doesn't count for much, does it?

Yes it does. You'd make a horrible businessman trying to sell that logic.

Oh. So why did you even bother to bring Stan lee here if you consider he was just saying a lot of things?

Please read above and above that.

Which I'm not opposed to. As long as it doesn't go against the core of the character. Hulk is the monster, have him sopeaking if you must, but don't turn him into a intelligent reflective sort of character.

I see what's going on, you don't understand my points at all. Mr. Hyde was intelligent and he was a monster.

Read the Good guy bad guy intelligence analogy above.

You know that people say a lot of things, so what would be proving? Now a poll where? Here, where no more than 100-200 comic fans would vote?

True but the comic fans are the people who have kept these characters alive and will when the movies rest to reboot. I asked the question in another forum, because I wanted untainted responses, on these boards in an Avengers thread. Television Hulk was one of the choices. No one chose him.

No. If he must speak, he should speak like Hulk speaks and not "like any normal person" would do.

Most incarnations speak like normal people speak.

 

[El Payaso]

I don't get your statement. Leader never appeared in the comics that way. The only time I remember Leader having muscles was in an episode of the 1996 cartoon where he wanted the Hulk's strength to go with his brains.

Sorry man. I was thinking of Samson. My bad.

Q had pretty much the same ability as Mxlpltlk and it worked in Star Trek.

But he didn't look like a little elf in yellow tights and a derby hat, did he?

I totally disagree. It this instance story and script would come into play. It's no more than introducing more Jedi in a story. Luke is still Luke regardless, Vader Vader and Obi-Wan Obi-Wan. It all comes down to story and execution.

But Hulk loses its quality of extraordinary. If you mulitiply extraordinary items, it becomes ordinary eventually.

Nor does intelligence define most characters or people, but we have and use what we got. Let me clear up what I mean by 'Intelligence.' I simply mean - the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason.

Sure, Hulk knows a couple of things. But reason is not a word you associate to Hulk. It's a word you relate to Banner.

As I've stated the majority of Banner's Hulk incarnation show at least average and if not better intelligence. At times they have been shown to access the knowledge in Banners mind.

The only worthy incarnation, the classic one, does not. Even his creator calls Hulk a monster and that the monster quality was what motivated him to create the whole concept. Also the tragedy of becoming uncontrollable. I'm not suire how the tragedy works in Banner's life if all he does is becoming another being as intelligent as he is, and also strong.

I don't know why you bring up the video,

At this point I don't know why did YOU bring the video, honestly.

But to answer your question: I bring it up for the exact same reason you did: because iut helps my case. Difference is, the video helps my case much more than it helps yours.

as I stated the sole purpose was to show you the original roots of the character, not that I aggreed with Stan's agreement with Kenneth Johnson's view, because I definitely don't.

Too bad then. Because you opened that door. I just walked in.

I'm using round numbers, but the character of the Hulk was created in 1962, almost 50 years and he's still in existence in comics and other media.

Your argument is like the new Coke vs the old Coke. They changed the formula and people got pissed, because it wasn't the same Coka Cola that they grew up on. sure somebody liked it, but the demand for the original was so high, they were forced to change it back. Though it had the name, it lacked the flavor. It's was just LACKING.

Let's show an intelligent Hulk to the audience and let's see what people will consider the 'original' product.

Yet after the show ended, Stan wrote at least two three Hulk stories that I can think of, and none of them had Kenneth Johnson's non-articulate Hulk in them?!? Go figure.

Wow. That might be related to his own thought that some things work perfectly in comics but not on film, which of course may work vice versa. Go figure.

Talk about ignoring something...I've told you the video was strictly what Stan mentioned about the origin of Hulk, not Kenneth Johnnson's version of Hulk years later. What Stan said of his ideas of the origin of the Hulk is the ONLY reason I posted that vid, and that is what the Hulk still is in the comics ABOUT 50 years later. The comic version has that lasting power.

It's funny to see how you pretend that it's natural that I have to ignore everything in the video that supports my argument.

And for a TV show that dissapeared 30 years ago, it's still being homaged in every Hulk movie (and the comics did its share too). Talking about lasting power.

You're trying to force an argument I haven't advanced. For the nth time I disagree with Stan's view on that. If Stan thought it was so much of an improvement, why after the show ended, he wrote a Hulk that speaks?

Already explained.

But I don't need to make conjectures about what Lee thinks of the show. He said it explicitly himself.

I see what's going on, you don't understand my points at all. Mr. Hyde was intelligent and he was a monster.

Read the Good guy bad guy intelligence analogy above.

Listen to what the Frankensteion monster had to do at the moment of creating the Hulk. Remember the words "monster" and "he didn't know what he was doing"?

True but the comic fans are the people who have kept these characters alive and will when the movies rest to reboot.

I'm sure Hulk comics could dissapear from now until a new reboot and GA would still remember the character. Mainly due to a certain TV series.

I asked the question in another forum, because I wanted untainted responses, on these boards in an Avengers thread. Television Hulk was one of the choices. No one chose him.

Not even a link?

Most incarnations speak like normal people speak.

Sure. Hulk is better known for saying "Excuse me, since you have provoked me I think I've been forced to fight you back,' and not 'Hulk smash!'

 

[Gamma Ra]

Sorry man. I was thinking of Samson. My bad.

It's cleared up. Nothing to be sorry about.

But he didn't look like a little elf in yellow tights and a derby hat, did he?

I agree that would be silly. I'm not one for the Superheroes' in tights on the big screen and even in comics. When these characters are translated to live action big screen, I welcome most of the changes.

characters like Hulk and Abomination are different, there's no need to stray to far from the source materiel. Even Samson minus the T-Shirt, blue tights and yellow boots.

But Hulk loses its quality of extraordinary. If you mulitiply extraordinary items, it becomes ordinary eventually.

I agree that having characters that are too similar can spoil a pot, but gamma beings usually incarnate with different appearances and even powers. Check out Riot Squad, Half-Life and other Hulk foes.

Have you watched The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes? It has been illuded to in ealy episodes that Bruce's gamma experiments was the reason behind many of the powers of many villains, if they go that route, not all gamma beings will be hulks.

Sure, Hulk knows a couple of things. But reason is not a word you associate to Hulk. It's a word you relate to Banner.

Actually I was in a debate on another board, arguing Hulk's different incarnations, and to prove one of my points I went searching trying to find a statement from an old letters page, what I came across was numerous times Marvel refereed to their character the Hulk in his Gray and Gravage/Green Scar form as "SMART." This was said in many letter responses from about issue #337 to present you'll see this word Smart being used as well as crafty, and sneaky, to describe Hulk.

The only worthy incarnation, the classic one, does not. Even his creator calls Hulk a monster and that the monster quality was what motivated him to create the whole concept. Also the tragedy of becoming uncontrollable. I'm not suire how the tragedy works in Banner's life if all he does is becoming another being as intelligent as he is, and also strong.

Not for nothing, all his versions are monsters, and what Stan alluded to was that Hulk looked and spoke like a monster, no so much syntax, but because he threatens, but doesn't act on it, they mostly hold no weight. Hulk just wants to be accepted, but it's hard to get past his monstrous ways for most.

At this point I don't know why did YOU bring the video, honestly.

I explained it enough.

But to answer your question: I bring it up for the exact same reason you did: because iut helps my case. Difference is, the video helps my case much more than it helps yours.

No it doesn't. Please re-read my original post on.

Too bad then. Because you opened that door. I just walked in.

And here we both are.

Let's show an intelligent Hulk to the audience and let's see what people will consider the 'original' product.

What people 'consider' and what the facts are can often times be two completely opposite things.

This is from Marvel's own website under 'Education'

Banner has a PhD in Nuclear Physics. The various Hulk personas have demonstrated different intelligence levels, from brutish to average to the same level of intelligence as Banner.

http://marvel.com/universe/Hulk_%28Bruce_Banner%29

Other sources (note: Gray Hulk is the ORIGINAL Hulk)

http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/incarnations.html

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/incarnations/incarnations.html

Wow. That might be related to his own thought that some things work perfectly in comics but not on film, which of course may work vice versa. Go figure.

But we've seen a plethora of speaking monsters and other creatures in film and Marvel Studio films that look less human than Hulk and people don' claim it to look silly, isn't that true?

It's funny to see how you pretend that it's natural that I have to ignore everything in the video that supports my argument.

My point and argument with you is because you're trying to state that Hulk is a sympathetic creature driven by rage and has no intelligence. I totally disagreed. Your view of the character is similar to what the movie studios have done, me being a Hulk fan for ABOUT 32 years believes that the reason the movies haven't been a smash is that that view of the character is GARBAGE, and the studio has not represented any true semblance to the character that Hulk fans love.

And for a TV show that dissapeared 30 years ago, it's still being homaged in every Hulk movie (and the comics did its share too). Talking about lasting power.

Your point noted, the show is a CLASSIC, but it's still based on the comic book character that is 16 years it's senior.

Already explained.

But I don't need to make conjectures about what Lee thinks of the show. He said it explicitly himself.

Lee is not the only audience, he probably hasn't read a Hulk comic in years. Again after the show Lee wrote a Hulk that speaks with intelligence...so what are you really saying.

Listen to what the Frankensteion monster had to do at the moment of creating the Hulk. Remember the words "monster" and "he didn't know what he was doing"?

He's refering about Frankenstein's Monster and not the Hulk at that point.

I don't deny Bruce Banner turns into a monster, but he's also heroic, which is what he says of Hulk.

By "monster" please explain what you are insinuating?

I'm sure Hulk comics could dissapear from now until a new reboot and GA would still remember the character. Mainly due to a certain TV series.

Purely speculation with no ground...fact of the matter is the comic book is still in print and Hulk appear in the comic verse.

Not even a link?

You're linked up.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=356725&page=11

Sure. Hulk is better known for saying "Excuse me, since you have provoked me I think I've been forced to fight you back,' and not 'Hulk smash!'

I never said Hulk spoke like that. I don't think you've ever pick up a Hulk comic.

The comic book version Green Scar that is in the comics today speaks like this -

Notice his mean sense of humor in the sarcasm -

Notice how he breaks it down to Wolverine.

Seems HIGHLY INTELLIGENT here

Here's the same Gravage / Green Scar version written by Stan Lee from Incredible Hulk #6

http://mightyworldofmarvel.blogspot.com/2009/01/trail-of-hulk.html

Notice how the Stan Lee Hulk speaks at least with normal intelligence, though his tone may be monstrously scary.

 

[Supermanreturns]

Simple:

- Rick Jones;
- Leader;
- Doc Samson.

 

[Doc Ock]

I'd like to see a intelligent Hulk, speaking or non-speaking. But I would also like it the other way. The Hulk we have gotten on-screen before. I'm just happy for more Hulk.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I'd like to see a intelligent Hulk, speaking or non-speaking. But I would also like it the other way. The Hulk we have gotten on-screen before. I'm just happy for more Hulk.

The problem with an intelligent non-speaking Hulk is that, that's pretty much what we got so far. In both Hulk and The Incredible Hulk, Hulk has shown curiosity and at least innate intelligence.

I prefer a Hulk that talks, who chooses to speak very little but direct and blunt with a nasty attitude and mean sense of humor.