The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

[Dagenspear]

You are wrong about them getting over it. It isn't "not easy," it's impossible. I am guessing you haven't watched TDKR yet. Also, stop trying to make it seem like Peter doesn't have it rough compared to Batman. His parents left with no explanation at all, and then he caused his uncle to die. Neither one is worse than the other. They are both emotionally scarring.

I never claimed they weren't. I said that I tend to give Batman more leeway. I never said one was worse than the other. And no, he DIDN'T cause Ben's death. The guy with the gun made a choice, Ben made a choice, that's what people do, THEY MAKE CHOICES. Should Peter have stopped him? I believe so. But not acting in NO WAY makes him to blame. Peter may see it that way, but it's not the case AT ALL. Yes I have seen TDKR and by the end Bruce has let go of his parents' deaths and moved on. He's not held back anymore. And he's better and finally emotionally healthy for it. It's not impossible. Nothing's impossible.

 

[LegendAssemble]

I never claimed they weren't. I said that I tend to give Batman more leeway. I never said one was worse than the other. And no, he DIDN'T cause Ben's death. The guy with the gun made a choice, Ben made a choice, that's what people do, THEY MAKE CHOICES. Should Peter have stopped him? I believe so. But not acting in NO WAY makes him to blame. Peter may see it that way, but it's not the case AT ALL. Yes I have seen TDKR and by the end Bruce has let go of his parents' deaths and moved on. He's not held back anymore. And he's better and finally emotionally healthy for it. It's not impossible. Nothing's impossible.

Can you just accept that you're wrong and stop trolling? Spider-Man is a story about personal tragedy and bad things happening to people close to him. I honestly think you're just not happy with the fact Peter looked like a normal kid instead of huge nerd so you automatically associate him with a prick.

Peter was a good KID in this movie, Captain Stacy was an over protective dad, and Gwen is a first love. You have no concept of story writing or symbolism and you obviously don't understand character development or growth.

Gwen dies because she represents first love and the helpless feeling of a first true heart break. Peter isn't a perfect guy because he's a kid and he's flawed, it's what makes us love him.

Now you should hate The Dark Knight Rises because you're knitpicking and lust to hate title characters should have been disgusted by how ungrateful Bruce was to Alfred when he just dismissed him because he tried to protect his feelings! Never making it up to him until the end, THEN LETTING HIM THINK HE LET HIM DIE! Much worse than Peter getting in fights with his parents like a normal kid but making it up to them at the end...

 

[Web face]

I never claimed they weren't. I said that I tend to give Batman more leeway. I never said one was worse than the other. And no, he DIDN'T cause Ben's death. The guy with the gun made a choice, Ben made a choice, that's what people do, THEY MAKE CHOICES. Should Peter have stopped him? I believe so. But not acting in NO WAY makes him to blame. Peter may see it that way, but it's not the case AT ALL. Yes I have seen TDKR and by the end Bruce has let go of his parents' deaths and moved on. He's not held back anymore. And he's better and finally emotionally healthy for it. It's not impossible. Nothing's impossible.

Similar, but one drastically more mentally and emotionally traumatic than the other.

Also, obviously Peter isn't completely to blame. He is somewhat responsible of his death. That is pretty much the entire point of Ben's death. Peter didn't actually kill him, but if he had done the right thing he would prevented him from dying. Peter had the ability to stop the thief, so it was his moral obligation to do so. Not choice -- responsibility. I predict that Peter will be more responsible when it comes to his secret identity after Gwen dies, so it serves a purpose and teaches Peter a different lesson than what Ben's death taught him.

 

[LegendAssemble]

On that note when you were a kid, were your parents divorced? Were you ever in love and got your heart broken? Had you ever not made a team at school? Gotten fired from a job? Messed up at all?

Like Web face said it's all about the fact that Peter feels responsible for Ben's death, something else that's very real for a person his age to feel. When you're growing up and you're almost a man you feel like the world is yours and it's frightening when a you realize your actions have consequences and even more frightening when you realize some things are out of your hands. Because of this teens and kids tend to blame themselves for bad things that happen in their worlds. Living in a mindset of what if.

Anyway, I think the better question is Dagenspear, what would you have done? Really if you weren't in the mindset YOU are going to be Spider-Man one day and YOU don't live in the Marvel Universe and you had the same thing happen. The guy was a dick to Peter a teenager who's already very emotionally distraught from the family fight and feel like your world is the center of pity and some jerk won't sell you Milk over 2 cents? Would you do something or would you think it's karma and you're just a kid you don't need to get involved?

You have the mindset kids are supposed to be heroes or just people in general are when they're not. The public is generally the in the bystander mindset, the number of good Samaritans is extremely low. The other day on the news they showed a crowd of people walking past a man in critical condition having been beaten at a bus stop and doing nothing to help him. They all looked at him but they all had the "Oh my god this is awful, but I can't really do anything" look.

You really need to get back to reality here.

Also, obviously Peter isn't completely to blame. He is somewhat responsible of his death. That is pretty much the entire point of Ben's death. Peter didn't actually kill him, but if he had done the right thing he would prevented him from dying. Peter had the ability to stop the thief, so it was his moral obligation to do so. Not choice -- responsibility. I predict that Peter will be more responsible when it comes to his secret identity after Gwen dies, so it serves a purpose and teaches Peter a different lesson than what Ben's death taught him.

Also personally I think Gwen's death is going to isolate Peter make him be even more of a loner and introvert than he was at the beginning of this film. Spider-Man to me seems like something that would be created in a child's desperate attempts to control their world they live in and the bad things that happen in it. Gwen's death is going to ultimately teach him that sometimes you can't control the bad things that happen in your life.

On a side note I would love to see Peter find his Uncles killer in the third film and get close to killing him but remember how much more alone he felt after seeing Goblin die and decide to spare him.

This franchise has so much potential!

 

[Web face]

On that note when you were a kid, were your parents divorced? Were you ever in love and got your heart broken? Had you ever not made a team at school? Gotten fired from a job? Messed up at all?

Like Web face said it's all about the fact that Peter feels responsible for Ben's death, something else that's very real for a person his age to feel. When you're growing up and you're almost a man you feel like the world is yours and it's frightening when a you realize your actions have consequences and even more frightening when you realize some things are out of your hands. Because of this teens and kids tend to blame themselves for bad things that happen in their worlds. Living in a mindset of what if.

Anyway, I think the better question is Dagenspear, what would you have done? Really if you weren't in the mindset YOU are going to be Spider-Man one day and YOU don't live in the Marvel Universe and you had the same thing happen. The guy was a dick to Peter a teenager who's already very emotionally distraught from the family fight and feel like your world is the center of pity and some jerk won't sell you Milk over 2 cents? Would you do something or would you think it's karma and you're just a kid you don't need to get involved?

You have the mindset kids are supposed to be heroes or just people in general are when they're not. The public is generally the in the bystander mindset, the number of good Samaritans is extremely low. The other day on the news they showed a crowd of people walking past a man in critical condition having been beaten at a bus stop and doing nothing to help him. They all looked at him but they all had the "Oh my god this is awful, but I can't really do anything" look.

You really need to get back to reality here.




Also personally I think Gwen's death is going to isolate Peter make him be even more of a loner and introvert than he was at the beginning of this film. Spider-Man to me seems like something that would be created in a child's desperate attempts to control their world they live in and the bad things that happen in it. Gwen's death is going to ultimately teach him that sometimes you can't control the bad things that happen in your life.

On a side note I would love to see Peter find his Uncles killer in the third film and get close to killing him but remember how much more alone he felt after seeing Goblin die and decide to spare him.

This franchise has so much potential!

I probably shouldn't have quoted the entire post but whatever, I am feeling lazy.
Anyway, I hope Gwen's death will make Peter very scared to get close to anyone, but gradually over two movies ( I hope MJ is introduced in TASM 2), Peter learns to get close to people and fall in love, and ends up with MJ at the end. I think it would be best if time is fast forwarded a couple years between each movie so Peter falling in love with MJ doesn't feel rushed.

 

[mr. peasant]

Here's a question though... why is everyone treating as if Gwen's death is such a certainty? Thus far, he track record outside the main comic book series tends to have her survive in some form or another (it's a clone of her in the Ultimate series, but nonetheless it's her). Even in the Spectacular Spider-Man series, where she was a main character and Mary Jane was also a character, the creators admitted to having had no plans to kill her off even if the show had continued.

Instead, a savvy creator might intentionally keep putting her in serious harm's way; playing on the audience's belief that her survival (as opposed to any other character's) is not guaranteed.

 

[Web face]

Here's a question though... why is everyone treating as if Gwen's death is such a certainty? Thus far, he track record outside the main comic book series tends to have her survive in some form or another (it's a clone of her in the Ultimate series, but nonetheless it's her). Even in the Spectacular Spider-Man series, where she was a main character and Mary Jane was also a character, the creators admitted to having had no plans to kill her off even if the show had continued.

Instead, a savvy creator might intentionally keep putting her in serious harm's way; playing on the audience's belief that her survival (as opposed to any other character's) is not guaranteed.

The reasons why I think she will die in this trilogy is because Emma Stone has said that Gwen Stacy is best known for her departure and Marc Webb has been hinting at it in certain interviews. In The Spectacular Spider-man I think they wouldn't have done it because that would be a bit too dark for a cartoon and for kids.

 

[Oscorp]

Also, in an interview, the guy asked Emma "If Gwen dies in this series, how would you want to die?" or something like that. Not only did Emma have this look that said "She sure will", but she also answered really quick "Definitely like in the comics" as if there was no question about it.

 

[LegendAssemble]

I probably shouldn't have quoted the entire post but whatever, I am feeling lazy.
Anyway, I hope Gwen's death will make Peter very scared to get close to anyone, but gradually over two movies ( I hope MJ is introduced in TASM 2), Peter learns to get close to people and fall in love, and ends up with MJ at the end. I think it would be best if time is fast forwarded a couple years between each movie so Peter falling in love with MJ doesn't feel rushed.

I think TASM 2 should have Gwen dying be the climax and end on a sad solemn note. Gwens death should serve as both the death of a love interest but also as the Peter Parker we knew in this film and a shift towards the more responsible adult Spider-Man.

I think having Aunt May set Peter up with Mary Jane in the third film to try and cheer him up would be good but have him try to push her away and reject her. Have Mary Jane figure out he's Spider-Man and have the two come together gradually and end the movie with Peter and Mary Jane together as adults.

But thats just my take, I'm sure I'll change my mind a lot in the next 3 years.

 

[Jick]

I think it'll be too depressing to have a major death in the end like that.

One of the reasons SM2 is still my favorite is because it was really satisfying. We had a self contained movie with beginning, middle and ending and (almost) everything was tied up at the end with a happy ending for Peter, after all what happened to him in the movie.

We already had a sad end for TASM, Peter tearing up with Gwen, lots of crying and sad words. If she dies by the end of the movie, I'll leave the theater depressed.

 

[Lucifer Maranda]

Slow and herendously

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

Slow and herendously

 

[Dagenspear]

Also, obviously Peter isn't completely to blame. He is somewhat responsible of his death. That is pretty much the entire point of Ben's death. Peter didn't actually kill him, but if he had done the right thing he would prevented him from dying. Peter had the ability to stop the thief, so it was his moral obligation to do so. Not choice -- responsibility. I predict that Peter will be more responsible when it comes to his secret identity after Gwen dies, so it serves a purpose and teaches Peter a different lesson than what Ben's death taught him.

More traumatic at the time doesn't neccesarily equal "worse."

And no, he isn't responsible for it at all. Was it a bad choice? I would say so. Should he have stopped him? I believe that he should've. And everybody has a choice, in everything that they do. It is ALL about choice and the perception of that choice. I mean, you think Peter is responsible for Ben's death, right? Well, what about Ben, what about the choice he made to put his life in danger knowing that he had a wife and a family that counted on him? Should we blame Ben for all of May's and Peter's pain? For acting without thinking of the consequence of this on them? What about his "responsiblity" to his family? Should we blame Captain Stacy for putting his life in danger every day, knowing that he has a family that loves and depends on him? Or even Gwen, staying and trying to save all those people, when she knew she had brothers and a mother and a father who all loved her and needed her. Should we place blame on all of them? They all had a responsibility to the people who they love and who love them back, and yet they ignored it. Should they be held responisible for all of their family's pain? No. And neither should Peter. He made a bad call, and he should feel guilty for it, it's only human TO feel guilty, but that is not what Peter should and needs to take away from the situation AT ALL. He shouldn't be driven by guilt, he should be inspired by goodness, by his Uncle Ben's ability to do what's right. With great power comes great responsibility, right? WRONG. The responsibility is always there, and Uncle Ben showed that. He didn't have the ability to do what's right, he had the opportunity to do it, and he took it. That's what matters, that's what's important. Not guilt, not pain, NOT revenge, but what's right. His mistakes do not define him.

And I'm confused, Peter isn't exactly flaunting his identity around.

 

[Web face]

More traumatic at the time doesn't neccesarily equal "worse."

And no, he isn't responsible for it at all. Was it a bad choice? I would say so. Should he have stopped him? I believe that he should've. And everybody has a choice, in everything that they do. It is ALL about choice and the perception of that choice. I mean, you think Peter is responsible for Ben's death, right? Well, what about Ben, what about the choice he made to put his life in danger knowing that he had a wife and a family that counted on him? Should we blame Ben for all of May's and Peter's pain? For acting without thinking of the consequence of this on them? What about his "responsiblity" to his family? Should we blame Captain Stacy for putting his life in danger every day, knowing that he has a family that loves and depends on him? Or even Gwen, staying and trying to save all those people, when she knew she had brothers and a mother and a father who all loved her and needed her. Should we place blame on all of them? They all had a responsibility to the people who they love and who love them back, and yet they ignored it. Should they be held responisible for all of their family's pain? No. And neither should Peter. He made a bad call, and he should feel guilty for it, it's only human TO feel guilty, but that is not what Peter should and needs to take away from the situation AT ALL. He shouldn't be driven by guilt, he should be inspired by goodness, by his Uncle Ben's ability to do what's right. With great power comes great responsibility, right? WRONG. The responsibility is always there, and Uncle Ben showed that. He didn't have the ability to do what's right, he had the opportunity to do it, and he took it. That's what matters, that's what's important. Not guilt, not pain, NOT revenge, but what's right. His mistakes do not define him.

And I'm confused, Peter isn't exactly flaunting his identity around.

All those examples that you named of Captain Stacy, Gwen and Uncle Ben, all of them were being SELFLESS. Peter was selfish and careless of the world around him when he let a thief steal money and leave and was partly responsible because of that. Ben thought the he had the power to stop the thief from hurting people, he was wrong but at least he tried. He isn't responsible for his death because he was being selfless and thought that guy shouldn't get away. The fact that you say, "With great power comes great responsibility" is wrong and that Peter shouldn't be driven by guilt makes it seem like you don't even know the characters name. It's not like Uncle Ben was completely powerless. He had power, so he had a responsibility. Peter Parker is driven by his guilt and he knows that everyone could be someone's Uncle Ben, Captain Stacy, or Gwen. That's just who he is. He isn't very careful with his secret identity either. He has had one villain, and he found out, he told Gwen, Captain Stacy found out, and runs around without his mask on.

 

[Dagenspear]

All those examples that you named of Captain Stacy, Gwen and Uncle Ben, all of them were being SELFLESS. Peter was selfish and careless of the world around him when he let a thief steal money and leave and was partly responsible because of that. Ben thought the he had the power to stop the thief from hurting people, he was wrong but at least he tried. He isn't responsible for his death because he was being selfless and thought that guy shouldn't get away.

Selfless? Hardly. Acting on their impulses to acheive their perception of right, when they have people who love and depend on them, who need them. Is that right? To abandon those who love them, leaving them alone and in pain. It isn't. I don't begrudge them for this, but both Peter and the others actions yield similar results: People who love them, and who they love, in pain, hurt, or dead.

 

[Dagenspear]

The fact that you say, "With great power comes great responsibility" is wrong and that Peter shouldn't be driven by guilt makes it seem like you don't even know the characters name. It's not like Uncle Ben was completely powerless. He had power, so he had a responsibility. Peter Parker is driven by his guilt and he knows that everyone could be someone's Uncle Ben, Captain Stacy, or Gwen. That's just who he is.

I'm perfectly aware of aware of the warped (and incorrect might I add) causality belief system that plagues this franchise. That doesn't mean however, just because the initial version incorporated and entertained this belief, that it's the right way to go about it, nor does it mean that it can't, or shouldn't, be reinterpreted. Guilt can eat away at your soul and consume your entire being if you allow to be your driving force. It's not healthy, and can lead you to do insane things, such as, oh I don't know, selling your marriage and unborn child to the devil.

 

[Caprican]

Oh, cheer up Pete.
Bad spelling hasn't killed anyone yet.

 

[Dagenspear]

He isn't very careful with his secret identity either. He has had one villain, and he found out, he told Gwen, Captain Stacy found out, and runs around without his mask on.

That doesn't exactly mean much. Peter's identity seems to already be known to Norman and not because Connors knows. Him telling Gwen is honorable, giving her an option and letting her know what she's getting herself into, as opposed to getting involved, leaving her clueless and vulnerable, blindly open to danger. He was knocked unconscious and unmasked, that was out of his control, and he had to reveal himself to Captain Stacy, otherwise the police would continue attacking him and he wouldn't be able to stop the Lizard in time.

 

[Web face]

Selfless? Hardly. Acting on their impulses to acheive their perception of right, when they have people who love and depend on them, who need them. Is that right? To abandon those who love them, leaving them alone and in pain. It isn't. I don't begrudge them for this, but both Peter and the others actions yield similar results: People who love them, and who they love, in pain, hurt, or dead.

So what are you suggesting, let other people die? Let other families suffer because you don't like the thought that there is a chance that you will fail? Is that your idea of right?

I'm perfectly aware of aware of the warped (and incorrect might I add) causality belief system that plagues this franchise. That doesn't mean however, just because the initial version incorporated and entertained this belief, that it's the right way to go about it, nor does it mean that it can't, or shouldn't, be reinterpreted. Guilt can eat away at your soul and consume your entire being if you allow to be your driving force. It's not healthy, and can lead you to do insane things, such as, oh I don't know, selling your marriage and unborn child to the devil.

So you are saying that it is perfectly acceptable to change the core of the character. Please, do not make Spider-Man movies. How is wrong btw? If you have the ability to help people then it is your responsibility to do so. I see nothing wrong with that. If he didn't feel responsible for letting an armed robber get away when he could have easily stopped him, then he would just end up being a grumpy selfish *****ebag who isn't close to being heroic or mature.

That doesn't exactly mean much. Peter's identity seems to already be known to Norman and not because Connors knows. Him telling Gwen is honorable, giving her an option and letting her know what she's getting herself into, as opposed to getting involved, leaving her clueless and vulnerable, blindly open to danger. He was knocked unconscious and unmasked, that was out of his control, and he had to reveal himself to Captain Stacy, otherwise the police would continue attacking him and he wouldn't be able to stop the Lizard in time.

Where exactly does it show that Norman Osborn knows Spider-Man's identity? How is letting Gwen know his secret identity make her safer than if he kept it a secret from everyone and there was no chance that people would know that he is Spider-man? Peter put his entire school in danger because the Lizard found out he was Spider-man. No matter how you look at it, Peter is doing a pretty bad job keeping his identity a secret. The whole point of secret identities is to keep the ones you care about safe. I am guessing he might learn that when Gwen dies.

 

[varsas]

I went for "Exactly like the comics in movie 3" because it would echo the scene from TASM where Peter throws Gwen out of the window in high school.

I also think that this should happen part way through the movie so that we are able to see an aftermath and to have Goblin's death at the end if it's to be a trilogy. Movie 2 could build up Norman and Green Goblin but focus on another villain.

I also expect to see MJ be introduced in Movie 2 so that there is interplay between her, Gwen and Peter. Reading through the early TASM comics for the first time recently, Aunt May was always pushing MJ on Peter and at the end of TASM Peter does say that he hasn't asked Gwen out so she doesn't know about that relationship leaving an in for MJ via Aunt May like in the comics.

 

[Web face]

I went for "Exactly like the comics in movie 3" because it would echo the scene from TASM where Peter throws Gwen out of the window in high school.

I also think that this should happen part way through the movie so that we are able to see an aftermath and to have Goblin's death at the end if it's to be a trilogy. Movie 2 could build up Norman and Green Goblin but focus on another villain.

I also expect to see MJ be introduced in Movie 2 so that there is interplay between her, Gwen and Peter. Reading through the early TASM comics for the first time recently, Aunt May was always pushing MJ on Peter and at the end of TASM Peter does say that he hasn't asked Gwen out so she doesn't know about that relationship leaving an in for MJ via Aunt May like in the comics.

I really want 4 movies instead of a trilogy because that sounds pretty good, but I am pretty sure we are getting a trilogy so I went with exactly like comics, movie 2. If we had 4 movies then I would have gone with like comics, movie 3 because we could have more character development, but since it's only three movies I wouldn't want the trilogy to end on a sad note.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

we are at the very least getting a trilogy... that doesn't mean another trilogy wouldn't follow

 

[Web face]

we are at the very least getting a trilogy... that doesn't mean another trilogy wouldn't follow

true, true. Not sure if Marc Webb and the rest of the crew would be on board for second trilogy though. Actually, now that I mention it, We aren't even sure if Marc Webb will be back for a second movie.

 

[Jexx]

I would actually find it agreeable if Webb only delivered an 'orgin' trilogy for Spider-Man.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Marc gave alot of sorely needed heart to spidey... Im all for his return. And his music tracks are great. The whole scene where gwen and peter mention going on a date which transitions into the skateboarding/power discovering scene. All beautifully script, acted, shot, and easily marc Webb 's staple with music and cinematography.