The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

[LegendAssemble]

I am thinking outside of the box, which is why I suggested the possibility of Peter not ending up with MJ after Gwen's death. We are all thinking of the possibilities here.

Ohh got it, I was thinking the same thing. One thing I thought that would be cool is if he quits being Spider-Man and ends up with MJ in movie 3, but learns he can't have a normal life and is forced to give her up like at the end of SM1, making the right decision he should have made in AMS.

 

[Dagenspear]

Ohh got it, I was thinking the same thing. One thing I thought that would be cool is if he quits being Spider-Man and ends up with MJ in movie 3, but learns he can't have a normal life and is forced to give her up like at the end of SM1, making the right decision he should have made in AMS.

And then, unless you're planning on him getting with Black Cat, Peter commits suicide a few years later due to isolation, and lonliness, because he had no hope and joy and innocence in his life. And "right" is a pretty subjective term in this particular situation. Why is it "right" for him to be alone? There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to be happy and actually trying and reaching for happiness. In fact, that's quite admirable.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I remember this Youtube user pointed out the blueprints to this Spider-Man, and said that a certain character's death would be different from the comics.

 

[Oscorp]

I remember this Youtube user pointed out the blueprints to this Spider-Man, and said that a certain character's death would be different from the comics.

Huh? Would be nice if you have the link

 

[Picard Sisko]

Huh? Would be nice if you have the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWEdPgnc_NM

Check out more of his videos. He also discusses why the Man in the Shadows is Norman Osborn, the deleted scenes, etc.

 

[Oscorp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWEdPgnc_NM

Check out more of his videos. He also discusses why the Man in the Shadows is Norman Osborn, the deleted scenes, etc.

Oh...that guy...

Thanks for the link though!

 

[Picard Sisko]

Oh...that guy...

Thanks for the link though!

He's been right about a lot of things though.

 

[Web face]

And then, unless you're planning on him getting with Black Cat, Peter commits suicide a few years later due to isolation, and lonliness, because he had no hope and joy and innocence in his life. And "right" is a pretty subjective term in this particular situation. Why is it "right" for him to be alone? There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to be happy and actually trying and reaching for happiness. In fact, that's quite admirable.

Again, sorry to butt into your conversation (I can't help it lol), but wouldn't that make Gwen's death not matter and go against what you argued? I said the same thing to you and you still said that Peter shouldn't get with MJ because it makes Gwen's death pointless (which I don't completely agree with). If you have changed your stance, then I am glad we could finally agree on something. I swear sometimes it feels like its a war zone in this place. Anyway, I just want to say, if there is a second trilogy that is in continuity with this one, then I would like to have Peter get with MJ towards the end of the second trilogy.

 

[Dagenspear]

No it's a man who knows that he made mistakes and he needs to own up to them and suffer the consequences. He's not Batman he's not brooding, he is just someone who takes the major blows life gives him, and makes the best of it. Plus I also was the one who said I'm not a fan of this story. Regardless I just believe you don't understand the character and you might be happier watching or investing in a different franchize.

As I've said, I understand the character perfectly, and that's the problem. The choice he makes in OMD is not the act of a man, it's the act of a child, the act of a coward, any mature adult would tell you the same. Instead of facing death and accepting it like a man, he makes a deal with the devil. That's the action of a Spider-Boy, not a Spider-Man. May was ready to die, she'd told Peter that, he had a wife, a life, multiple people who needed him to be a hero, but instead of respecting May's wishes, of accepting death like a man, OF BEING RESPONSIBLE, he throws what can only be described as the hissy fit of petulant child whose not ready to lose his mommy figure. And all these deaths that you claim taught Peter a lesson, and made him a hero, and responsible, and all that ********, didn't do any of it, it made him into the type of person that makes THAT decision.

He's a superhero but he's very flawed. The idea is he's learning but he has no one to guide him and sometimes he makes mistakes. This is a story and it's there to teach you something, that good deeds and pushing through hard times will be rewarded.

By death? And selling your marriage to the devil? That's not the way the world works. Good actions don't bring good things, bad actions don't bring bad things, there is no karma, no universal force punishing and rewarding people. IT'S. ALL. RANDOM. Good happens to the bad, bad happens to the good, good happens to the good, bad happens to the bad, it's all variety, a mix. That's just the way it is.

Gwen's death is more of a metaphor for the loss you feel when you lose your first love and how helpless you feel. The fact that the Goblin took her away, but it was Peters actions that killed her, almost represent the way people question if their actions were what made their lover leave.

Ya know, it's funny because, back in the early times when Spider-Man actually WAS relatable, there was no need for nonexistent metaphors that the writers had no intention of depicting for fanboys to read into. Peter was just relatable. If they wanted to display a depiction of a break-up you know what they'd do? HAVE THEM ACTUALLY BREAK-UP.

Theoretically, Peter isn't with Mary Jane in the comics right now, and I'd be just as happy if he gets with Mary Jane in Amazing 3 but doesn't want her to end up like Gwen and leaves her. You don't realize that we don't want Gwen to die because it happened in the comics or because we like Mary Jane, but because we like the story.

Because it happened in the comics. If it hadn't this wouldn't even be a discussion. You're a fear of change fanboy. I said this already. I never said YOU were P/MJ shipper. You have no concept of thought beyond what the comics have given, to you there is nothing other than that. I, however, am a TRUE fan, and respect the source material enough to let it be and stay where it is, as a classic story. I have an open mind to the possibilities. You have no such imagination.

It was obvious foreshadowing. He didn't say keep her out of your heroics he said "you'll make enemies" implying people are going to come after him and his loved ones (like the Lizard did) and that he was there dying in the place of who could have been Gwen.

That's exactly what I said, that he came in her place, and that he was telling him to keep her out of his heroics.

Also if the Lizard wasn't Connors and saw Gwen helping Spider-Man like that, she would have died and there were several times in the movie she almost did. Also Peter directly said he was breaking his promise by being with her. There wasn't any interpretation there.

Just because Peter interpreted it one way doesn't mean that's how the Captain meant it.

Also no I was 10 and never read a comic book when I saw the movie and no one is going to be screaming "KILL HER!" because no one will want her to die. If it's an effective death it won't be a fangasm, it will be something that hard for everyone to watch a real tear jerker. A place we feel for Peter and his pain. If it's going to work no one is going to "want it" it's just something that should happen.

No, it shouldn't. You want it to, otherwise you wouldn't be having this argument with me. You'd be resigned that most likely it would happen, but you wouldn't be trying ramble on about all the nonexistent reason why it should. And it's funny how you don't answer my initial question. If it was MJ in the situation that Gwen is in this movie, would you be her right now, arguing with me about why it should happen? No. You wouldn't. Because that's not the way it happened in the comics. And that's all it really comes down to, isn't it? Unimaginative, uncreative, close-minded fanboyism.

 

[Dagenspear]

Again, sorry to butt into your conversation (I can't help it lol), but wouldn't that make Gwen's death not matter and go against what you argued? I said the same thing to you and you still said that Peter shouldn't get with MJ because it makes Gwen's death pointless (which I don't agree with). If you have changed your stance, then I am glad we could agree on something finally. I swear sometimes it feels like its a war zone in this place.

Black Cat can live in Peter's world without the danger.

 

[Web face]

Black Cat can live in Peter's world without the danger.

True, true. But I am talking more about MJ, because everything you stated like innocence, hope, and love. He would be completely miserable if he chose to never be with any other girl (that is just a civilian) if Black Cat isn't included. Also, MJ is a little more grounded so that is a plus to using MJ, because with the tone TASM had, Black Cat probably wouldn't be like Cat Woman was in TDKR.

 

[MarvelKnight]

I'd like to see it in the next movie.. However, I'm sure they'll wait to do it in the third, if they do it at all. I know Emma Stone has stated in interviews she wants to do 'Death of Gwen Stacy' TASM may have been heavily influenced by Ultimate Spider-Man, but it's my hope we get an epic Gwen Death.

And if they are setting up Green Goblin for the third movie (whichever version) it makes perfect sense to do it then.

 

[Rogue Kira]

As I've said, I understand the character perfectly, and that's the problem. The choice he makes in OMD is not the act of a man, it's the act of a child, the act of a coward, any mature adult would tell you the same. Instead of facing death and accepting it like a man, he makes a deal with the devil. That's the action of a Spider-Boy, not a Spider-Man. May was ready to die, she'd told Peter that, he had a wife, a life, multiple people who needed him to be a hero, but instead of respecting May's wishes, of accepting death like a man, OF BEING RESPONSIBLE, he throws what can only be described as the hissy fit of petulant child whose not ready to lose his mommy figure. And all these deaths that you claim taught Peter a lesson, and made him a hero, and responsible, and all that ********, didn't do any of it, it made him into the type of person that makes THAT decision.By death? And selling your marriage to the devil? That's not the way the world works. Good actions don't bring good things, bad actions don't bring bad things, there is no karma, no universal force punishing and rewarding people. IT'S. ALL. RANDOM. Good happens to the bad, bad happens to the good, good happens to the good, bad happens to the bad, it's all variety, a mix. That's just the way it is.Ya know, it's funny because, back in the early times when Spider-Man actually WAS relatable, there was no need for nonexistent metaphors that the writers had no intention of depicting for fanboys to read into. Peter was just relatable. If they wanted to display a depiction of a break-up you know what they'd do? HAVE THEM ACTUALLY BREAK-UP.Because it happened in the comics. If it hadn't this wouldn't even be a discussion. You're a fear of change fanboy. I said this already. I never said YOU were P/MJ shipper. You have no concept of thought beyond what the comics have given, to you there is nothing other than that. I, however, am a TRUE fan, and respect the source material enough to let it be and stay where it is, as a classic story. I have an open mind to the possibilities. You have no such imagination.That's exactly what I said, that he came in her place, and that he was telling him to keep her out of his heroics.Just because Peter interpreted it one way doesn't mean that's how the Captain meant it.No, it shouldn't. You want it to, otherwise you wouldn't be having this argument with me. You'd be resigned that most likely it would happen, but you wouldn't be trying ramble on about all the nonexistent reason why it should. And it's funny how you don't answer my initial question. If it was MJ in the situation that Gwen is in this movie, would you be her right now, arguing with me about why it should happen? No. You wouldn't. Because that's not the way it happened in the comics. And that's all it really comes down to, isn't it? Unimaginative, uncreative, close-minded fanboyism.

Do we need to get a mod in here ?
Its one thing to state your opinion it's another to insult someone. This thread is getting off topic perhaps we take this conversation about whether or not Gwen should die to another thread that is asking the same question.And not have in a thread that is asking when and how she should die.

 

[Dagenspear]

True, true. But I am talking more about MJ, because everything you stated like innocence, hope, and love. He would be completely miserable if he chose to never be with any other girl (that is just a civilian) if Black Cat isn't included. Also, MJ is a little more grounded so that is a plus to using MJ, because with the tone TASM had, Black Cat probably wouldn't be like Cat Woman was in TDKR.

There's two ways Gwen's death can go.

1. She dies because of Peter's actions. LA says because Peter didn't keep his promise to Captain Stacy, which, ya know, is pretty lame, to punish Gwen for Peter's screw up. Not to mention, it treats Gwen as if she doesn't deserve a choice in the matter, as if she's the damsel in distress to be coddled and protected, and that Peter being the big strapping Man-Hero is, has the right to make her choices for her, and that he made the wrong one, when, in fact, Gwen made a choice too, that was what she wanted, she welcomed the danger, along with everything else Peter had to offer, she made the choice. You say because Peter doesn't keep a tight enough lid on his identity, which, I mean, come on, is totally reaching. It's like Peter can't catch a break anymore. He messes up once. Isn't that, like, apart of his charm. He has flaws. Seriously, if Peter makes this EXACT SAME MISTAKE again in TASM 2, then I really don't think Gwen's the one who needs to be thrown off a bridge. And makes Peter into a tool for getting with someone after.

2. Gwen dies because she gets too involved in Peter's heroics. This makes Gwen seem incompetent, like she doesn't know her limitations, and comes off as "HA! Stupid girl, trying to think for yourself, and be strong! Women aren't capable of such things! THIS IS WHAT YOU GET!" *SNAP* "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

 

[Troy_Parker]

He's been right about a lot of things though.

I was interested until I found out it was a video by spiderman2o29...

This guy supposedly had insider info about the reboot, yet said things like "What if the webshooters aren't mechanical, what if they're a hybrid...? They'll definitely be mechanical, hybrids or organics."... isn't it obvious that it's going to be one of the three?

This guy's been wrong about a lot of things and the things he has been right about could easily have been deduced. Are they really going to make another Spidey franchise with MJ as the main love interest and a Spidey who's quiet all the time?

I mean maybe there was a point when he had insider info, but I definitely doubt anything this guy says now.

 

[mr. peasant]

There's two ways Gwen's death can go.

1. She dies because of Peter's actions. LA says because Peter didn't keep his promise to Captain Stacy, which, ya know, is pretty lame, to punish Gwen for Peter's screw up. Not to mention, it treats Gwen as if she doesn't deserve a choice in the matter, as if she's the damsel in distress to be coddled and protected, and that Peter being the big strapping Man-Hero is, has the right to make her choices for her, and that he made the wrong one, when, in fact, Gwen made a choice too, that was what she wanted, she welcomed the danger, along with everything else Peter had to offer, she made the choice. You say because Peter doesn't keep a tight enough lid on his identity, which, I mean, come on, is totally reaching. It's like Peter can't catch a break anymore. He messes up once. Isn't that, like, apart of his charm. He has flaws. Seriously, if Peter makes this EXACT SAME MISTAKE again in TASM 2, then I really don't think Gwen's the one who needs to be thrown off a bridge. And makes Peter into a tool for getting with someone after.

2. Gwen dies because she gets too involved in Peter's heroics. This makes Gwen seem incompetent, like she doesn't know her limitations, and comes off as "HA! Stupid girl, trying to think for yourself, and be strong! Women aren't capable of such things! THIS IS WHAT YOU GET!" *SNAP* "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Sure. But it would be just as sexist to single Gwen's fate out for such scrutiny based purely on her gender. Any character's death, regardless of gender, given that the character is aware of the protagonist's secret identity and chooses to get involved/assist in it, carries such implications. Which is why I'm of the view that Gwen shouldn't be killed in this continuity - unlike the original Spider-Man comics, Gwen here is both, aware of Peter's identity and wants to be with him anyway.

Of course, there is Option 3, in which Gwen chooses death in order to protect Peter or in order to achieve some plot-related goal.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Sure. But it would be just as sexist to single Gwen's fate out for such scrutiny based purely on her gender. Any character's death, regardless of gender, given that the character is aware of the protagonist's secret identity and chooses to get involved/assist in it, carries such implications. Which is why I'm of the view that Gwen shouldn't be killed in this continuity - unlike the original Spider-Man comics, Gwen here is both, aware of Peter's identity and wants to be with him anyway.

Of course, there is Option 3, in which Gwen chooses death in order to protect Peter or in order to achieve some plot-related goal.

What in the hell does this even mean? You're just rambling on about nothing.

 

[Dagenspear]

Sure. But it would be just as sexist to single Gwen's fate out for such scrutiny based purely on her gender. Any character's death, regardless of gender, given that the character is aware of the protagonist's secret identity and chooses to get involved/assist in it, carries such implications. Which is why I'm of the view that Gwen shouldn't be killed in this continuity - unlike the original Spider-Man comics, Gwen here is both, aware of Peter's identity and wants to be with him anyway.

Of course, there is Option 3, in which Gwen chooses death in order to protect Peter or in order to achieve some plot-related goal.

I don't particularly disagree on either point. My issue isn't really gender-related, I just can't seem figure out the "Why?" behind this, ya know? I mean, why kill Gwen at all? Especially if this is how it comes off? To spend 2-3 films on a relationship that doesn't go anywhere? It doesn't really make much sense for a film series.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't particularly disagree on either point. My issue isn't really gender-related, I just can't seem figure out the "Why?" behind this, ya know? I mean, why kill Gwen at all? Especially if this is how it comes off? To spend 2-3 films on a relationship that doesn't go anywhere? It doesn't really make much sense for a film series.

It is important to kill Gwen because it is something that shapes Peter as a character. Much like how Batman is still reflects on Jason's death and believes it to be his greatest mistake, Peter still reflects on the death of George and Gwen Stacy. Gwen's death forever shaped him as a character and it would be a huge waste to not give Peter that same level of depth and character development in the movies. The Death of Gwen Stacy is one of the greatest Spidey stories ever told and if adapted properly onto the big screen, it would be a movie on the same level of quality as The Dark Knight, perhaps even better. That and they're already setting up Gwen's death with Peter not keeping her father's promise. So much wasted potential if they don't do it IMO.

Who says the franchise will end with a trilogy? Sony said they want *at least* 3 movies but this doesn't mean they'll end it after 3. Movie franchises follow this pattern all the time. First they make a movie. If the movie does well, they plan a trilogy. If the trilogy does well, they plan another 3 movies. That is how all studios work. 6 or 7 movies aren't all green-lit at once. If the next 2 movies do just as well as TASM did or better, you can bet they'll be continuing the franchise and bring in new love interests such as MJ and/or Black Cat. Thus the argument his love life doesn't go anywhere after Gwen's death wouldn't be applicable anymore. Gwen's death would even bring in the possibilities of telling even greater Spider-Man stories. For example, you can do a story where Peter is unsure if he should hook up with MJ because he wouldn't want to bring anyone too close and have them die like Gwen did. This would also be the perfect time to bring in stuff like Black Cat and the symbiote. Black Cat can come in and Peter can hook up with her due to being "emotionally unavailable" due to Gwen's death. The symbiote is known for feeding on its user's anger and grief. It can come in while Peter is in a state of darkness due to Gwen's death and feed on that. Peter would bond with it to make himself feel better. Then while he is trying to separate himself from the symbiote, you can have him not only face his "dark side" but also face the fact that he is responsible for the deaths of people like Ben, George Stacy, and Gwen. Doing the death of Gwen Stacy isn't just a chance to give Spidey a movie that has potential to challenge films like TDK in terms of quality but it is also a chance to open the doors for many more great ideas to be used in future Spider-Man films.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't know if anyone brought this up yet but Sony and Marvel Studios made an agreement to have the OsCorp Tower from TASM appear in The Avengers during the big battle in New York (in the background) but that didn't happen because the design of the tower wasn't finished by the time they started shooting the third act of Avengers. However, since Sony allowed Marvel to do this, I guess this means TASM is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know if anyone brought this up yet but Sony and Marvel Studios made an agreement to have the OsCorp Tower from TASM appear in The Avengers during the big battle in New York (in the background) but that didn't happen because the design of the tower wasn't finished by the time they started shooting the third act of Avengers. However, since Sony allowed Marvel to do this, I guess this means TASM is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

it wont be official till it happens. but what it does show is that marvel and sony are indeed willing to work together. which... is great news

 

[Dagenspear]

It is important to kill Gwen because it is something that shapes Peter as a character. Much like how Batman is still reflects on Jason's death and believes it to be his greatest mistake, Peter still reflects on the death of George and Gwen Stacy. Gwen's death forever shaped him as a character and it would be a huge waste to not give Peter that same level of depth and character development in the movies.

Gwen's death doesn't do a damn thing that's neccesary. Please, explain to me this mythical character development that's so vital. Batman was Batman before Jason Todd's death. Just like Spider-Man was Spider-Man before Gwen's. The only "development" it offers is eating away at their souls, degrading them until they become the type of people who sell their marriage and unborn baby to the devil. You want that too? It's a big part of his character. Jason's death, like Gwen's, is NOT neccesary. And would ya look at that? There's 2 film franchises and a cartoon series to back me up.

 

[mr. peasant]

It is important to kill Gwen because it is something that shapes Peter as a character. Much like how Batman is still reflects on Jason's death and believes it to be his greatest mistake, Peter still reflects on the death of George and Gwen Stacy. Gwen's death forever shaped him as a character and it would be a huge waste to not give Peter that same level of depth and character development in the movies. The Death of Gwen Stacy is one of the greatest Spidey stories ever told and if adapted properly onto the big screen, it would be a movie on the same level of quality as The Dark Knight, perhaps even better. That and they're already setting up Gwen's death with Peter not keeping her father's promise. So much wasted potential if they don't do it IMO.

Except, let's look at the track record of this seemingly 'important' event that 'shapes Peter as a character':

1. Did it happen in Raimi's Spider-Man, or anything similar to it? No
2. Did it happen in Spectacular Spider-Man, or were there plans for it to happen? No
3. Did it happen in the original Spider-Man, TAS from the 1990s? No
4. Is it likely to happen in the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series? No, because she's not there.

For such a seemingly character-defining moment, it sure isn't translated often, is it?


Likewise, let's consider a couple major moments in Batman's history:

1. The death of Todd/any Robin: Hasn't been translated in any major adaptation.
2. The very introduction of Robin or any partner/mentee figure: Not every adaptation has one.


Yes, all of this can be used to make the argument that Gwen should then be killed in this adaptation as it would be something 'fresh' and 'different' but that's a far cry from being a necessary element to include.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Except, let's look at the track record of this seemingly 'important' event that 'shapes Peter as a character':

1. Did it happen in Raimi's Spider-Man, or anything similar to it? No
2. Did it happen in Spectacular Spider-Man, or were there plans for it to happen? No
3. Did it happen in the original Spider-Man, TAS from the 1990s? No
4. Is it likely to happen in the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series? No, because she's not there.

For such a seemingly character-defining moment, it sure isn't translated often, is it?

This is a terrible argument considering half of your examples were canceled prior to anything resembling a finale, the one episode starring Gwen in TAS does in fact deal with her mortality in an alternate universe, and Ultimate Spider-Man isn't even Peter Parker anymore, nor is the series over (Gwen could very well make an appearance still... heh).

Saying the moment isn't translated often means nothing, except that Spider-Man has yet to be accurately portrayed in any other mediums.

 

[Oscorp]

Except, let's look at the track record of this seemingly 'important' event that 'shapes Peter as a character':

1. Did it happen in Raimi's Spider-Man, or anything similar to it? No
2. Did it happen in Spectacular Spider-Man, or were there plans for it to happen? No
3. Did it happen in the original Spider-Man, TAS from the 1990s? No
4. Is it likely to happen in the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series? No, because she's not there.

For such a seemingly character-defining moment, it sure isn't translated often, is it?


Likewise, let's consider a couple major moments in Batman's history:

1. The death of Todd/any Robin: Hasn't been translated in any major adaptation.
2. The very introduction of Robin or any partner/mentee figure: Not every adaptation has one.


Yes, all of this can be used to make the argument that Gwen should then be killed in this adaptation as it would be something 'fresh' and 'different' but that's a far cry from being a necessary element to include.

Stupid points there!

There not much to say here, The Death of Gwen Stacy IS considered an important event that shapes Peter. That's part of why its so loved and well known.

1. Whether Raimi did it or not doesn't change the fact that it's an important arc. First of all, Raimi focused on MJ instead of Gwen. Secondly, it's not as if his choice or his path is the definite and best one. Why do you think that? It's not Raimi that has the last word on whether or not Gwen's death is an important event. Also, his films were aimed more for kids. While Norman's death was pretty bloody, I really don't think Raimi would want to show Gwen's neck get snapped.

2. TSSM got cancelled prematurely.

3. That show was heavily censored. Sure, some characters died in it, but there would be no way to Gwen's death accurately with that censorship. Instead they made MJ get trapped in another dimension...

4. I'm not that much into the Ultimate series, but I feel that many changes there are changes for the sake of it, just to make it different (the reason I don't like those comics). Green Goblin's costume, mask etc. are extremely important to the character, yet he's a big wannabe Hulk throwing fire balls.