The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

  • Exactly like the comics in movie 2

  • Exactly like the comics in movie 3

  • Different from the comics in movie 2

  • Different from the comics in movie 3

  • Never, she shouldn't die

  • Exactly like the comics in movie 2

  • Exactly like the comics in movie 3

  • Different from the comics in movie 2

  • Different from the comics in movie 3

  • Never, she shouldn't die


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Marc gave alot of sorely needed heart to spidey... Im all for his return. And his music tracks are great. The whole scene where gwen and peter mention going on a date which transitions into the skateboarding/power discovering scene. All beautifully script, acted, shot, and easily marc Webb 's staple with music and cinematography.
I knew going in the music and just the general look of the action scenes would be entertaining. Marc Webb did a ton of music videos before this movie and we could see how colorful and nice looking the action parts were going to be from the trailers and clips.
 
Ok, I went with 'exactly like the comics in movie 2'.
But here's what I think about it in detail:

First of all, it has to be exactly like the comics. It's just too much of an iconic moment to change anything about it and it never has been cinematically depicted before. So here's their chance to do this right. If there's anything that must remain faithful to the source material, that one's it.

Beyond that, it's not an easy question to answer.
Sony will have to weigh it all carefully and decide what is it they really wana do with Gwen.
- At first glace this is setting up to be a story about Peter's origin, about his parents, as opposed to Raimi's take on it, which was all 'about a girl'.
So to avoid making any love interest into the love interest, they would have to kill her off in the upcoming sequel. Otherwise they risk not only making the average movie goers too attached to her but us fans and comic book geeks as well. Because, if you ask me, right from the start these two looked much better together than Tobey and Kirsten ever did, by a whole lot.
No matter how many sequels we'll get, if she lives beyond two films, we might never be able to let her go and if she does die in the 3rd one this might turn out to be a very depressing and alienating move. People would never accept MJ as a replacement at that point. There wouldn't even be any demand for her. She would just be a forced substitute.
- Likewise, it would depend on the next film's length and pacing, to determine whether it would be best for Gwen to die in the middle or as a cliffhanger.
- Another thing to consider is what tone do they want the franchise to take. With a well done next installment, they could very well establish something similar to a Nolan-esque superhero saga. They have that potential. But do they really want that? If not, if they don't feel like they would be able to accomplish such a feat, then perhaps it would be best to keep Gwen alive and well for the entire length of the series. I would be perfectly ok with that.
- There is a possibility that she could die at the beginning or in the middle of movie 3 but then it would work best if they make two films back to back ( either 2&3 or 3&4) released in less than a year away from each other...buuut I'm rambling at this point.

Anyway, that's just my own stream of consciousness on the matter.

PS: If Gwen is to die, I think it would be best for MJ to be cast in the second film...if at all. It depends on how much time this franchise has to develop...
 
^ I agree with most of that post. I think that if Mary Jane is to be included at all in this series, she should be introduced in the beginning of movie two (Same movie Gwen should die) as a party girl, then at the very end of the last movie, Peter and MJ start dating. That way it won't seem rushed as much from Gwen's death to MJ being the new love interest. She could comfort Peter after Gwen's death.
EDIT: crap I didn't see your edit lol.
 
So what are you suggesting, let other people die? Let other families suffer because you don't like the thought that there is a chance that you will fail? Is that your idea of right?
That's not what I said at all. Please pay attention to the point of the statements. Like I said, I don't begrudge them. They didn't do anything wrong. BUT, if you're going to place this cross of causality onto Peter, then everyone else must bear it as well. If Peter's responsible for Uncle Ben's death, then Ben is responsible for Aunt May and Peter's pain, and Captain Stacy is responsible for the pain of his family. It's all equal.
So you are saying that it is perfectly acceptable to change the core of the character. Please, do not make Spider-Man movies. How is wrong btw? If you have the ability to help people then it is your responsibility to do so. I see nothing wrong with that. If he didn't feel responsible for letting an armed robber get away when he could have easily stopped him, then he would just end up being a grumpy selfish *****ebag who isn't close to being heroic or mature.
Or maybe he would become an actual hero, inspired by the heroism of his Uncle Ben, and not driven by self-blame and self-loathing, and guilt. Like I said, he should feel guilty at first, it's human TO feel guilty, any of us would, BUT, we let it go, if we don't then it can tear us apart inside and destroy us. Peter needs to come to grips with the fact that it wasn't his fault, because it wasn't, if he can't then it'll just do nothing but eat away at him. He needs to let it go, it's healthy to let it go, it's good for him. Why don't you want that? Ya know, for people who claim to love Peter, you sure as hell don't seem to care about his emotional or mental well-being, you just want him to suffer, and feel constant guilt, and be in pain. That's a messed up kind of love.

Oh, and no, I don't think they should change the "core" of the character, because I don't percieve Peter to be defined by one aspect of his personality, and therefore, it ISN'T his core, it's a character cliche. I see Peter as more than that, as having the potential to be better than that. I see Peter as someone with the ability to rise above the tragedy that he has been dealt, and become better. The tragedy is a catalyst, not a drive, it prompts the beginning of Peter becoming hero, but it doesn't dictate it. Peter is more that the some of his parts, he is more than his failures, he is more mistakes. And it's actually quite insulting to his character to percieve his guilt as being all there is that is important, it's minute compared to everything else.

I really hope they're going the path of Peter not letting guilt rule his existence. Because in the film you can really see that glimmer of heroism when he saves that boy, a heroism that's born out the need to do what's right and not the obligation. I feel like he's inspired in that moment, and realizes that he doesn't need to hold onto his revenge and lets it go. He becomes more in that moment, a real hero, and in the next scene with Gwen we see that, when she says "That's not your job." and he says, "Maybe it is." If that was in the movie, I get the film and trailers mixed up sometimes.:doh: :lol:
Where exactly does it show that Norman Osborn knows Spider-Man's identity? How is letting Gwen know his secret identity make her safer than if he kept it a secret from everyone and there was no chance that people would know that he is Spider-man? Peter put his entire school in danger because the Lizard found out he was Spider-man. No matter how you look at it, Peter is doing a pretty bad job keeping his identity a secret. The whole point of secret identities is to keep the ones you care about safe. I am guessing he might learn that when Gwen dies.
The Osborn thing is just a personal perception of the post-credits scene, as the way he (who we can assume either is, or works for Norman Osborn) talks about "the boy" it seems he knows all about Peter. But, like I said, it "seems" that way, it MIGHT not be though.

And personally, I'm hilariously flabbergasted that anyone could somehow think keeping such a secret from someone their involved with could ever end well. A situation which Peter's mask gets taken off against his will by a villain could spell disaster if Gwen didn't know what was going on. Her knowing makes her aware of the danger, gives her a choice in the matter, which every woman deserves, if she doesn't want this life, she can choose to not be with him, if she does want it, then, it's her choice. It's either that, or he's never with any girl, EVER. This Gwen knows what she's getting into, as opposed to her comics counter-part, who also died. Damn. According to you, she does know: She dies. She doesn't: She dies. She just can't cut a break now, can she? :dry:

The Lizard finding out is yet another perception issue. I don't really view it as Peter's fault that the Lizard found out. The situation was really kind of out of his control.
 
I guess you could make her you're Rachel Dawes with her dying in the second movie and Spidey having to overcome his mistake of getting her involved in his crime fighting in the third.

If there is no Green Goblin who is to kill her though? Kraven the Hunter, Electro?
 
It has to be Green Goblin who kills her, I accept no one else. And I don't want to see another Goblin until the third film of this series. Just pieces and bits of Norman Osborn in the beginning, and maybe a good portion of him close towards the end.
 
Ok, I went with 'exactly like the comics in movie 2'.
But here's what I think about it in detail:

First of all, it has to be exactly like the comics. It's just too much of an iconic moment to change anything about it and it never has been cinematically depicted before. So here's their chance to do this right. If there's anything that must remain faithful to the source material, that one's it.

Beyond that, it's not an easy question to answer.
Sony will have to weigh it all carefully and decide what is it they really wana do with Gwen.
- At first glace this is setting up to be a story about Peter's origin, about his parents, as opposed to Raimi's take on it, which was all 'about a girl'.
So to avoid making any love interest into the love interest, they would have to kill her off in the upcoming sequel. Otherwise they risk not only making the average movie goers too attached to her but us fans and comic book geeks as well. Because, if you ask me, right from the start these two looked much better together than Tobey and Kirsten ever did, by a whole lot.
No matter how many sequels we'll get, if she lives beyond two films, we might never be able to let her go and if she does die in the 3rd one this might turn out to be a very depressing and alienating move. People would never accept MJ as a replacement at that point. There wouldn't even be any demand for her. She would just be a forced substitute.
- Likewise, it would depend on the next film's length and pacing, to determine whether it would be best for Gwen to die in the middle or as a cliffhanger.
- Another thing to consider is what tone do they want the franchise to take. With a well done next installment, they could very well establish something similar to a Nolan-esque superhero saga. They have that potential. But do they really want that? If not, if they don't feel like they would be able to accomplish such a feat, then perhaps it would be best to keep Gwen alive and well for the entire length of the series. I would be perfectly ok with that.
- There is a possibility that she could die at the beginning or in the middle of movie 3 but then it would work best if they make two films back to back ( either 2&3 or 3&4) released in less than a year away from each other...buuut I'm rambling at this point.

Anyway, that's just my own stream of consciousness on the matter.

PS: If Gwen is to die, I think it would be best for MJ to be cast in the second film...if at all. It depends on how much time this franchise has to develop...

Actually, there is a way for Gwen Stacy to be killed off and still allow viewers to let her go and not hate on Mary Jane as her replacement.

How do you do it? Introduce MJ at the end of the very last Spider-Man movie, possibly even in the stinger itself and have her be played by [blackout]Emma Stone as well[/blackout], and have it work out along the lines of this suggestionhttp://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=23994587&postcount=68. This is a common gimmick used in stories to turn a bittersweet ending into a happy one.
 
Gwen shouldn't die. You know why? Because first of all, there are too many great Spider-Man stories with so much cinematic potential to just pass them up for a storyline which is only remembered because they killed of a character in a comic book for good and because it was the "end of the Silver Age of Comics". That's not going to help out the sequel in the least and to be honest, if Goblin were to try to go after Parker's family, which'd be unlikely, he'd probably go after Aunt May. And besides, I don't think any actress they get will have the chemistry with Garfield that Stone has with him, you know, considering they're actually in a relationship.
 
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Green Goblin HAS to be the murderer of Gwen. Either that, or don't kill her at all.

Oh, and I've always thought the idea of having Emma play both Gwen and MJ is a little silly :P
 
That's not what I said at all. Please pay attention to the point of the statements. Like I said, I don't begrudge them. They didn't do anything wrong. BUT, if you're going to place this cross of causality onto Peter, then everyone else must bear it as well. If Peter's responsible for Uncle Ben's death, then Ben is responsible for Aunt May and Peter's pain, and Captain Stacy is responsible for the pain of his family. It's all equal.
Yes, you said that if Peter is at all to blame then so is Uncle Ben blah blah blah, then I said the difference was that Peter was being selfish while the others were being selfless with their actions. It's not equal at all, because Peter was somewhat responsible for Uncle Ben's death AND his pain/ Aunt May's pain. I'm not saying Peter is completely to blame, the thief is the one who is truly at fault for everyone's pain and Ben's death, but it would be ridiculous to say Peter isn't responsible at all.
Or maybe he would become an actual hero, inspired by the heroism of his Uncle Ben, and not driven by self-blame and self-loathing, and guilt. Like I said, he should feel guilty at first, it's human TO feel guilty, any of us would, BUT, we let it go, if we don't then it can tear us apart inside and destroy us. Peter needs to come to grips with the fact that it wasn't his fault, because it wasn't, if he can't then it'll just do nothing but eat away at him.
Umm, no, he wouldn't become a hero if he did not realize that his actions have consequences. It was partly his fault. Not entirely, but his careless actions definitely had some bad consequences. He needs to remember that. For him to think that it wasn't his fault would mean that he is just lying to himself to make him feel better. Obviously he will grow and realize that nothing will bring Uncle Ben back, if that is what you are saying then I agree with that, but he must always remember that many people can get hurt if he doesn't use his powers to do the right thing.

He needs to let it go, it's healthy to let it go, it's good for him. Why don't you want that? Ya know, for people who claim to love Peter, you sure as hell don't seem to care about his emotional or mental well-being, you just want him to suffer, and feel constant guilt, and be in pain. That's a messed up kind of love.
Peter isn't real. There is no caring about his mental well-being. He doesn't exist.
Oh, and no, I don't think they should change the "core" of the character, because I don't percieve Peter to be defined by one aspect of his personality, and therefore, it ISN'T his core, it's a character cliche. I see Peter as more than that, as having the potential to be better than that. I see Peter as someone with the ability to rise above the tragedy that he has been dealt, and become better. The tragedy is a catalyst, not a drive, it prompts the beginning of Peter becoming hero, but it doesn't dictate it. Peter is more that the some of his parts, he is more than his failures, he is more mistakes. And it's actually quite insulting to his character to percieve his guilt as being all there is that is important, it's minute compared to everything else.
Well I guess we see Spider-man differently. To me, the fact that he feels responsible for his Uncle's death, the fact that he feels guilty that he made a fatal mistake, is crucial to the way I view the character. I see his guilt being a driving force that reminds him that if he doesn't act responsibly someone will be hurt. His mistakes define him, because he learns from them. He learned from letting the thief go didn't he? His guilt is what makes him a hero. It is what makes him responsible.
I really hope they're going the path of Peter not letting guilt rule his existence. Because in the film you can really see that glimmer of heroism when he saves that boy, a heroism that's born out the need to do what's right and not the obligation.
I'm not sure if this is a typo or something but they pretty much mean the same thing. Obligation is just a synonym of necessity and need.
I feel like he's inspired in that moment, and realizes that he doesn't need to hold onto his revenge and lets it go. He becomes more in that moment, a real hero, and in the next scene with Gwen we see that, when she says "That's not your job." and he says, "Maybe it is." If that was in the movie, I get the film and trailers mixed up sometimes.:doh: :lol:
I feel like I am agreeing with you here. I am not saying that he should be guilty in the way that he shouldn't let go of his revenge. He already has, when Captain Stacy said that Spider-Man was a criminal at the dinner table. I mean that he should remember that everyone that he chooses not to save could be someone's Uncle - ahhh you get the point lol. (I've repeated that like 5 times in this post alone haha)
The Osborn thing is just a personal perception of the post-credits scene, as the way he (who we can assume either is, or works for Norman Osborn) talks about "the boy" it seems he knows all about Peter. But, like I said, it "seems" that way, it MIGHT not be though.
Oh I understand. Rhys Ifans said that the man in the shadows was not Norman but someone that works for him. The way I see it is that Osborn knows what happened to Peter's parents and had a part in their death, but doesn't know that he is Spider-man. I wouldn't mind if he knew from the beginning though.

And personally, I'm hilariously flabbergasted that anyone could somehow think keeping such a secret from someone their involved with could ever end well. A situation which Peter's mask gets taken off against his will by a villain could spell disaster if Gwen didn't know what was going on. Her knowing makes her aware of the danger, gives her a choice in the matter, which every woman deserves, if she doesn't want this life, she can choose to not be with him, if she does want it, then, it's her choice. It's either that, or he's never with any girl, EVER. This Gwen knows what she's getting into, as opposed to her comics counter-part, who also died. Damn. According to you, she does know: She dies. She doesn't: She dies. She just can't cut a break now, can she? :dry:
Yes it is important to be open in a relationship but Gwen might get too involved in Peter's super villain business and get hurt in the process. Also, I don't care if she knows, if she doesn't know, or if she doesn't care, I want to see her die. She is probably most known by her departure and I just want to see that moment on screen.
The Lizard finding out is yet another perception issue. I don't really view it as Peter's fault that the Lizard found out. The situation was really kind of out of his control.
He really should not be putting his name on things he will be carrying as Spider-Man. Put a random mark on it or something, just don't get a label maker and put your name on it in nice big white letters. It was definitely in his control.
EDIT: holy long post! haha
 
I voted for exactly like the comics in movie 3. The great thing about Norman/GG is that he is a package of two villains compressed into one. There are stories where he fights Spidey as GG and there are stories where he fights him by just being Norman Osborn (similar to Superman's conflicts with Luthor). I would introduce Norman Osborn in the second film and have him be behind the creation of a villain just like in Ultimate (haven't decided which villain yet). The first film already foreshadowed that he is corrupt and willing to do anything to get what he wants. The second movie would continue that but this time with Osborn on screen and being more involved in the story. Then in the third film, he becomes the Green Goblin and kills Gwen just like in the comics.

Kinda off-topic but killing Gwen in the third film would also bring in the opportunity to have the symbiote and the black suit in movie 4. After Gwen's death, have Peter be depressed, feel anger, and guilt for not keeping his promise to Captain Stacy. The symbiote feeds on emotions and thoughts such as those. That causes him to bond with the symbiote, as a way of him dealing with all of the anger inside him. And when he tries to separate himself from the symbiote at the end of the fourth film, have the symbiote remind him that he needs him and, that he is nothing without him, and remind him of the death of both Uncle Ben and Gwen to crush Peter's spirit even further so that Peter can keep him.

What do ya think? :/
 
I voted for exactly like the comics in movie 3. The great thing about Norman/GG is that he is a package of two villains compressed into one. There are stories where he fights Spidey as GG and there are stories where he fights him by just being Norman Osborn (similar to Superman's conflicts with Luthor). I would introduce Norman Osborn in the second film and have him be behind the creation of a villain just like in Ultimate (haven't decided which villain yet). The first film already foreshadowed that he is corrupt and willing to do anything to get what he wants. The second movie would continue that but this time with Osborn on screen and being more involved in the story. Then in the third film, he becomes the Green Goblin and kills Gwen just like in the comics.

Kinda off-topic but killing Gwen in the third film would also bring in the opportunity to have the symbiote and the black suit in movie 4. After Gwen's death, have Peter be depressed, feel anger, and guilt for not keeping his promise to Captain Stacy. The symbiote feeds on emotions and thoughts such as those. That causes him to bond with the symbiote, as a way of him dealing with all of the anger inside him. And when he tries to separate himself from the symbiote at the end of the fourth film, have the symbiote remind him that he needs him and, that he is nothing without him, and remind him of the death of both Uncle Ben and Gwen to crush Peter's spirit even further so that Peter can keep him.

What do ya think? :/
I actually like this plan. About the Venom thing, It would be pretty cool if it was like Spectacular Spider-man where they show Peter having an internal battle with the symbiote. Maybe have the symbiote bring memories of when he let people down and stuff ex: when Uncle Ben yelled at him, when Ben died, when Captain Stacy died, etc., then have Peter fight off the negativity by having memories of his family and friends to show that he isn't weak without the symbiote, ex: Uncle Ben's speech... That's all I could think of. Yeah it isn't one of my best ideas. Honestly, even though it was a bit cartoony and probably wouldn't work on film, TSSM did the creation of Venom the best I have seen.
 
Norman Osbourne better be a genetic mutant similar to the physical design of the ultimate Green Goblin and not in a rubber suit with a cloak. That's the only one I would accept. If Harry is in this series too I would prefer that too and that the mutation kills him eventually.

Otherwise Gwen can be killed T-1000 style by someone like Carnage for all I care.
 
Norman Osbourne better be a genetic mutant similar to the physical design of the ultimate Green Goblin and not in a rubber suit with a cloak. That's the only one I would accept. If Harry is in this series too I would prefer that too and that the mutation kills him eventually.

Otherwise Gwen can be killed T-1000 style by someone like Carnage for all I care.
I disagree I prefer the classic suit. Not sure why, but it is just my preference. I feel like now that we already had the Lizard, having goblin transform would be too similar to the Lizard. I would however, be 100% perfectly ok with Norman gaining mass and getting more built the more he takes the Goblin serum. I think It would be pretty cool if they showed Harry having a drug addiction in one movie out of the trilogy.
 
I voted for exactly like the comics in movie 3. The great thing about Norman/GG is that he is a package of two villains compressed into one. There are stories where he fights Spidey as GG and there are stories where he fights him by just being Norman Osborn (similar to Superman's conflicts with Luthor). I would introduce Norman Osborn in the second film and have him be behind the creation of a villain just like in Ultimate (haven't decided which villain yet). The first film already foreshadowed that he is corrupt and willing to do anything to get what he wants. The second movie would continue that but this time with Osborn on screen and being more involved in the story. Then in the third film, he becomes the Green Goblin and kills Gwen just like in the comics.

Kinda off-topic but killing Gwen in the third film would also bring in the opportunity to have the symbiote and the black suit in movie 4. After Gwen's death, have Peter be depressed, feel anger, and guilt for not keeping his promise to Captain Stacy. The symbiote feeds on emotions and thoughts such as those. That causes him to bond with the symbiote, as a way of him dealing with all of the anger inside him. And when he tries to separate himself from the symbiote at the end of the fourth film, have the symbiote remind him that he needs him and, that he is nothing without him, and remind him of the death of both Uncle Ben and Gwen to crush Peter's spirit even further so that Peter can keep him.

What do ya think? :/

Get out of my brain! Lol I've been thinking the same thing.
 
Actually, I disagree. I want this to be a solid pentalogy, hexalogy, heptalogy...

:highfive:
 
There actually were/are people here (yes, even in the Spidey boards) who wanted/want this film (and probably this entire trilogy) to fail. Though, those wouldn't really be Spidey fans anyway.
 
There actually were/are people here (yes, even in the Spidey boards) who wanted/want this film (and probably this entire trilogy) to fail. Though, those wouldn't really be Spidey fans anyway.

Outrageous. Not only are more Spidey films ALWAYS welcome in my eyes, the series needed a reboot.

And now X-Men desperately needs a reboot. Its such a cluster****.
 
Outrageous. Not only are more Spidey films ALWAYS welcome in my eyes, the series needed a reboot.

And now X-Men desperately needs a reboot. Its such a cluster****.

Yeah it's really annoying to see people go "I hope this film fails". Sure, they probably want the rights to go to Marvel but if we get great Spider-Man films from Sony, then why not?

X-Men needs a reboot? Didn't you enjoy First Class?
 
X-Men needs a reboot because the whole franchise has become a mess. We have no idea what is canon and what's not canon, what's a reboot and what's a prequel, etc.

X-Men Origins: Wolverine contradicted a lot of stuff about Wolverine that was established in the first 3 films about Wolverine and the Weapon X program and should be a reboot, yet Fox still keeps saying it's a prequel. Then First Class, despite it being really good, contradicted even more. It didn't just contradict a certain part about the first 3 films like Wolverine did. It contradicted almost EVERYTHING and yet it's still somehow a prequel as opposed to a reboot.

Some people have argued that First Class is a complete reboot. That makes no sense since they're doing a sequel to Wolverine, which is a prequel. Some have argued Wolverine is a reboot and First Class is a prequel to the original trilogy or that Wolverine is a prequel but First Class isn't. That makes no sense either because the 1) Either way, you get left with 1 movie that contradicts the original trilogy and 2) It's highly unlikely Fox would have 2 separate X-Men continuities at the same time (both Wolverine and First Class will continue to get sequels). Others have argued both Wolverine and First Class aren't canon to the original trilogy - both being reboots of the franchise that take place in the same universe. That doesn't make sense since there are some stuff in First Class that contradict Wolverine (Emma Stone's age and Professor X walking).

Nothing make sense anymore and a reboot is necessary to straighten things out. This sadly won't happen unless Fox gives the rights back to Marvel or if Marvel buys them back, and both probably won't happen for a while :(.
 
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X-men isn't "in need" of a reboot persay... but i'd welcome one. hopefully one that actually works on the team's characterizations better.... rather than it always being Xavier/Magneto and one where those team members are done correctly
 
I don't know about you guys, but I want this to be a solid trilogy
Me too, and that is with a satisfying ending, instead of a deeply depressing one with Gwen's death. I don't think SM3 ended on a happy note and they were planning to do a fourth movie.
 
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