When its all said and done

Kane said:
This is really the answer to Tony's thread. Theres not much more that needs to be said.

Youre a Smallville fan, youll continue to remember the series as something you enjoyed, you'll probably continue posting on these Smallville boards long after the show's demise.....when it's all said and done, thats all that really matters.

Its like that for any television series.

Well, I'm glad that you were able to answer the question for everyone, Kane, and I appreciate you telling me exactly what I will remember and appreciate.

With that, I will sign off (and get some sleep) and leave the "real debates" to people like you.

Thanks, again.
 
Max said:
I'll take a shot at this question.

First of all I don't read comics. I don't like them, and I don't say that to offend the many fans who enjoy them. I just don't enjoy trying to read dialogue trapped in bubbles over well drawn pictures. Why? Because there's no drama for me. I'd rather read a book. However, a drama that can be watched and viewed - even better.

Sorry if this is nit picky, but I've got to ask. Why is there no drama? How is it any different from reading a book?

Max said:
What's my point regarding the thread? Since I've never read a comic about Superman, and I have no clue about the history or "facts" about Superman, except for the basics: Alien, Krypton, green rock is bad, he flies, he's strong, and he wears primary colors - I knew nothing about Superman's life before becoming Superman - until Smallville.

Well, to tell you the truth, Smallville deviates from the character history in alot of ways.

Max said:
What does Smallville give me and what will I take away from it? The following questions about Superman were answered by watching Smallville:

How does Superman find out about his powers? Does he automatically have them from the moment he arrives on earth? Yes and no, but I learn that some of Clark's abilities (strength/speed) he had from the very beginning, but the other abilities: fire from his eyes, hearing, and flying developed later as he came into puberty. Makes sense to me. It was wonderful to watch Clark's horror at the initial onslaught of his abilities - especially the fire from his eyes. Watching Clark desperately avoiding his father's gaze for fear of hurting him was so well done. His father was not horrified or frightened. His son was different so I have to teach him to embrace his differences, and he did. Wonderful stuff.

Now, that was (basically) how it happened in the comics.

Max said:
Why EXACTLY is Superman such a good guy? I mean, what exactly did his parents teach him to make him so good? Watching how Jonathan and Martha Kent loved, fought, cried, and sacrificed their lives for Clark on SV was a true eye-opener as to why this man IS Superman. You can't get that from comics, and I certainly didn't get it from The Adventures of Superman or Lois and Clark.

Okay, again, I've got to ask. Why can't you get that from comics? I'e gotten that from the comics. Many many times.

Max said:
I have watched Clark struggle with his desires to be normal and to have "things" that other kids have, including materialistic things, and to become the man that he desperately wants his parents to be proud of in the end. I watched him make stupid and juvenile decisions, I watched him disappoint his parents, and I watched him redeem himself and learn. Basically, I've watched Clark grow from the shy awkward teenager who was unsure of himself to a more confident, courageous man who is screaming Superman to me. (I have no doubt I will see the full transformation before the series end)

Basically how it happened in the Superman mythos.

Max said:
Why does Lex Luther become evil? What a great backstory to create for those of us who don't read the comics to see what could happen to a very wealthy young man with a good heart, but with an absolutely evil and black-hearted father who strives every day to corrupt his son. The constant battle of trying to be good against always losing against his father begins to harden Lex and destroy his trust in humanity. I think it was genius to introduce the friendship of Lex and Clark in Smallville prior to the Superman story. What a contrast in lives. Both men, with good hearts, being raised under very different circumstances. It's a true lesson that children do become the products of their parents. SV did this whole "rise of Clark and fallof Lex" beautifully.

True. But just so you know, Lionel was a character created for the show. He never apeared in the comics. Lex's "evilness" is something very unique to him. He's not completely self serving and he hasn't lost faith in humanity. In fact, he's got more faith in humanity than most. He really wants to make the world a better place. It's just that his ideas of how to acomplish this are very twisted. Lex, in the comics, wasn't born rich. He grew up in the slums. Saw humanity's darkness firsthand. Saw that the world wasn't going to change unless humanity rose up and made it change. That's also why he hates Superman. He thinks that us putting our trust and security in the hands of some mysterious space man with powers only hinders our progression as a society.

Max said:
How does Clark become involved in reporting? SV showed that by hanging out with Chloe at the Torch in high school. He has no interest in reporting at first, but her insatiable appetite for news and the truth pulls Clark into her world, if for nothing else than to keep her safe from her "stories." However, he does get bitten by the bug. From there, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to The Daily Planet. Very clever.

I actually don't recall how he got into reporting in the comics. I think he just started working at small newspapers during his college years because he needed money and found he had a knack for writing.

Max said:
How does Clark know he's allergic to Kryptonite? How does he know that it has a deadly affect on him? I don't recall it being in the ship with him when he blasted off of Krypton. So how does he know? Again, brilliant job on SV's part. Let the remnants of the exploded planet follow the ship all the way to earth in a hail of meteor shower that spews the lethal rocks all over the landscape where Clark Kent will be living. Not only does it educate him to its deadly affects to him, but it also morphs into other forms of kryptonite (I'd guess by entering the earth's atmosphere) that affect Clark and others. This gives Clark a training ground to fight "super human" beings that he will confront in the future. That was very smart.

Well, why wouldn't he know that Kryptonite is harmful? He gets near the stuff, he gets really sick, and thus decides to try and not get near the stuff again. Also, I must say, I personally am not a huge fan of the "freaks of the week" from kryptonite. It works for the show, but in the comics, kryptonite doesn't give you powers. It gives you cancer.

Max said:
Why is Lexx Luther bald anyway? SV tells me why. Lexx was with his father the day of the meteor shower and gets caught in the path of a streaming rock. The radiation renders him permanently bald and a fascination with "things" from outer space. Hmmmmmm.

Again, that's different from how it happened in the comics. Lex was already suffering from male pattern baldness. He then, due to over exposure to Kryptonite, got cancer. The chemo therapy caused the rest of his hair to fall out.

Max said:
How does Jonathan Kent develop his heart condition? I always figured he had a gene and inherited heart disease from his parents. Nope. Not in Smallville. In this show, the writers thought up such a great way to incorporate Jonathan's heart problems into the story. He makes a deal with Clark's biological father, after Clark makes a devastating mistake and leaves town. Jonathan is told that the risks to his physical health would be in peril if he agreed to Jor-el's "gift." Jonathan didn't care. All he knew was that his son was in trouble and that he would do anything to save him. As quick as you can say "Zap it to me," Jonathan is imbued with superpowers, which enables him to bring back his son and restore Clark to his "old self." The consequences to Jonathan Kent, however, will be dire. How can you not love that stuff? Great idea.

Actually, Jonathan having a heart condition was for the movie. In the comics, Clark's dad is alive and well.

Max said:
These are some of the things that came into my head when I read your post, Tony. Some people can dismiss Smallville as an affront to the Superman mythos or that it is guilty of destroying the "facts" about Superman lore.

Oh, I personally have nothing against Smallville. It's a decent show, and the changes it made work for the show. Personally, I would have handled the show differently and a little more true to the comics, but the show's still fine the way it is. Although, I've found the most recent season rather lacking.

Max said:
That's bupkus! If anything, Smallville intrigues me to watch FUTURE Superman movies and shows. The legacy that Smallville leaves for me that I would pass on to other people who asked is: If you want to learn about Superman BEFORE he becomes Superman, just watch Smallville. I would honestly tell them to forget the comic books because what I got from Smallville filled in so many holes and answered lots of questions I didn't even realize I had about the guy. Who knew!

Reading the comics would also fill in such holes.

Max said:
Some people will live and die by the written word of what came before Smallville (in comics and shows). Not for me. Smallville is, without a doubt, the best compilation of stories and events of Superman's youth and boyhood, prior to him becoming Superman, that I've seen thus far. In other words, it completely satisfies me, as a viewer and a fan. It answers all my questions, and it truly makes me adore these characters that become the legend. That's the legacy it has left for me, and which I will pass on to people who may want to learn more about Superman. People need and want the backstory of a character, and Smallville delivers in spades. :up:

So do many of the comics. And, personally, I think the comics do it better. I'd read Superman: Man of Steel and Superman: For All Seasons over watching Smallville any day. But then, that's me.
 
Kane said:
Bruce Timm's stuff did that before SV.

where talking about mainstream america, not comic nerds. Most people in the "general public" couldnt tell you who Bruce Timm was if they had a revolver pointed at their temple
 
He mentioned children...and kids (in mainstream america) watched those cartoons.

They were definately as popular as the X-men and Spiderman cartoons of the 90s as well and reached out to alot.

The whole thing wouldnt have lasted 13/14 years if it wasnt.
 
I still dont understand how an afternoon cartoon has any of the same effect a live action TV show would, but I'm not arguing with you on it, as you'll never give SV credit for anything.
 
The Incredible Hulk said:
I still dont understand how an afternoon cartoon has any of the same effect a live action TV show would, but I'm not arguing with you on it, as you'll never give SV credit for anything.


Smallville will get plenty of credit when it's said and done, I promise you that. :o
 
The Incredible Hulk said:
I still dont understand how an afternoon cartoon has any of the same effect a live action TV show would, but I'm not arguing with you on it, as you'll never give SV credit for anything.

For kids, the cartoon has the same effect, possibly more. For teenagers; Smallville would definately reel them in, especially those that watch the other types of teen oriented programming on the WB.

I was a kid during the Superman TAS/DCAU days and a teen during the Smallville days, both did what they were meant to do.
 
You know, I always see all this hate for the new Supergirl and The New Avengers on messageboards, but I've never come face to face with any of it in real life. Everytime I buy a new issue or TPB, I always end up having to have a fifteen minute conversation with the person at the register. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

And it's not as black and white as you people make it out to be. You CAN enjoy multiple incarnations and it IS possible for anybody to take that one as their main source of lore.
 
Max said:
I acknowledge that the comics are an important part of the Superman mythos for some, but not everyone READS all the endless articles, comics, books of Superman. Does that mean that I'm not a fan? The thread asked what the legacy will be of Smallville for people, and I explained the legacy that it leaves for me. There are plenty of people who have never read a comic book in their lives, but does that mean they have no say in the Superman stories? Are you saying that Superman can have absolutely no impact on how I view it because I haven't read EVERYTHING. That's absurd. I shouldn't say that I'm closed minded to the idea of comics, but I don't read them - too many to have to read to get up to speed, frankly.

Maybe the thread was meant only for the fanboys or the most devout, learned Superman fans. If that's the case, then you're right, my post would be moot. However, MANY fans of Superman become fans by watching Smallville, and I doubt they run out and buy every conceivable written word on the subject of Superman. Therefore, I guess we can never have a say in these debates.

Smallville's legacy is very simple to me: It answers all the questions I have about Superman in a very clever, dramatic and effective way. It has made me LOVE the character. If that's not relevant to the thread, then I guess the rest of the posters will tell me, but for the record, Superman does not belong ONLY to the fanboys who know the history of Superman, chapter and verse. Otherwise, what's the point of making new films in the first place? You think children and teenagers are going to go out and read up on all the Superman literature? No. They will watch what's available to them.

I agree with everything you said and I too dont read comic books for the same reason as you.

Is one medium any more real than the other. Its a choice and that's why there are so many choices out there.

Unfortunately some comic book readers view us as ignorant but I view them as arrogant.
 
Oh, I don't veiw comics as a better medium. I just think that, while Smallville is pretty good, some of the comics are better.
 
Max said:
I'll take a shot at this question.

First of all I don't read comics. ...

Some people will live and die by the written word of what came before Smallville (in comics and shows). Not for me. Smallville is, without a doubt, the best compilation of stories and events of Superman's youth and boyhood, prior to him becoming Superman, that I've seen thus far. In other words, it completely satisfies me, as a viewer and a fan. ...

People need and want the backstory of a character, and Smallville delivers in spades. :up:

Well Max, I do read (some) comics, and I do agree with everything you very well said..
Good to have you here :up:

And try not to get "bullied away" by the arrogance of our "resident comic nerds" .. :)
 
BaK said:
Well Max, I do read (some) comics, and I do agree with everything you very well said..
Good to have you here :up:

And try not to get "bullied away" by the arogance of our "resident comic nerds" .. :)



I'm not bullying anyone. I'm simply saying that the comics deliver the same deal as Smaillville, and I personally think some do it better.
 
The Question said:
I'm not bullying anyone. I'm simply saying that the comics deliver the same deal as Smaillville, and I personally think some do it better.
was not "reffering" to you, but don't worry, they'll recognize themselves..
 
BaK said:
And try not to get "bullied away" by the arrogance of our "resident comic nerds" .. :)

:rolleyes: Go back to your shipper threads for your teen soap.

Hey Question, now that youre here, what do you think about the trailer in my SIG? :supes:

It screened with X3.
 
Looks very cool. I kind of like how they seem to be going with the "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" characterization for Lex. He wants to make the world a better place, but he's the type who'd be willing to kill three million people if he thought it would bring about world peace. Always liked that version of Lex. Seems more real, I guess.
 
You should go back to the kid and to that love triangle.

Just leave, you wanna get banned again for the 10th time? lol.
 
Love triangles...seem so familiar...I know I've seen them before done immaturely on a WB soap that plays thursday nights.

KalKai said:
Just leave, you wanna get banned again for the 10th time? lol.

This time I wont, I didnt insult your alternative sexual orientation like before.

I kept it clean, so lets leave it at that.
 
With all do respect Kal Kai, Kane kept it pretty clean. I came cruising in here and it seems as if your baiting him into something because of his past.

I don't even like Kane truthfully, but all the evidence is in the thread. Let's move on.
 
Ya Kai, dont get your panties in a twist over this.

I really meant nothing bad and I only asked Question's opinion on that cause I rarely see him in any other thread. Next time I'll jus PM him.

Vic Sage is quite the mysterious lurker :)
 
dont worry, not everyone who reads the comics is a pompous jackass. I've been reading them since 1979, and dont think less of those who enjoy the character without reading them. If Smallville got you into the character that's cool, if it made you pickup a comic for the first time in 10 years (like me), even better, if not, no big deal. frankly, for the major part of the past 15 years the Superman comics have been terrible anyway, with a few decent exceptions, so it's not like you've been missing out on much.
 
I wonder about the number of comic readers vs. the number of tv viewers (granted with some overlap). My gut says that TV viewers probably FAR outweigh the former.. but I guess I could be mistaken.

Nice points, Max. :up:

FWIW, I was a pretty big comics fan as a kid, but the superhero comics were only a small part of what I read. Comic love faded, the Superman movie came out, and CR's Superman was definitive for me until Smallville. The show inspired me to start buying a few of the Superman TPBs (as well as a few others) again, but I still find that the show excites me more. Although I do think it's unfair, and not really possible to compare the two mediums.

The arrogance of comic fanboys crosses the line for me when they are so insecure in their own interests, that they feel the need to put down others. I love SV to death, but that doesn't mean I don't have a healthy respect for the depth and history of comic book canon. Why that so rarely works in reverse is beyond me.
 
Oh believe me, it works the reverse.

If it didnt, I wouldnt be anticipating the new Superman film so much.
 

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