The Dark Knight Where does most of TDK's critisism come from?

[Squaremaster316]

4 1/2 years later, The Dark Knight still stands tall as the greatest comic book film ever associated with the genre. An emotionally gripping drama, a flawless character study of a brilliant psychopath; a smartly constructed crime epic; a crisply shot, high octane, adrenaline-pumping action film; a thrilling adventure piece; a deep, spiritual, richly complex study of the nuanced intricacies of morality and what one must do to achieve what one perceives as the greater good. Combined with bits of witty, subtle and dark humor that never overstay their welcome.

All constructed within a film that is so Shakespearean, it even follows his classic 5 act tragedy structure. Truly a film that stands shoulder-to-shoulder with the absolute best works of Kurosawa, Kubrick and Hitchcock and the Bard himself.

​

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Holy Thread Bump, Batman!

 

[weezerspider]

I hate the 'its not a batman movie' crap. Yes, the first time you see the film, Joker steals the show, but after you've seen the film once, you should be able to watch the film and realize, Oh wow, this whole film revolves around Batman and Bruce/Batman has way more screen time than the Joker...also he's in his Batman persona for the last 40 minutes of the movie. The film is about Bruce learning what it means to be a hero, learning about the innocent bloodshed and learning that he has to continue to fight because thats what heroes do...I guess I just don't get it. I love Batman and have loved him way before I ever knew who Chris Nolan was, but The Dark Knight is a Batman story and a goddamn good one at that.

 

[Eggyman]

Question: Where does most of TDK's criticism come from?

Answer: People defending TDKR.

 

[OutRiddled]

People who hate Batman. People who hate Heath Ledger.
Purists.
Burton fans.
Kids.
Eyecandy seekers.
unsophisticatists.
Hollywood elitists.
People who think realism is boring.
People who think it’s conservative. (Controversial)
People who think all superhero movies should follow the same format.
It makes people feel special.
Other.

OMG. The Nolan fanboyism is strong in this thread.

 

[Rocketman]

I think if you took The Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole, and made it a comic book series, or a series of three graphic novels to make a comic trilogy, you'd have the greatest incarnation of Batman in comics. Or at least The Dark Knight alone would be perhaps the greatest Batman story published.

The Batman Begins comic adaptation obviously doesn't count - I'm talking a full graphic novel.

To me, that's what separates Nolan's trilogy more than other comic book films. I'd actually say this version is neck-and-neck with B:TAS as THE defining version of the character. That's a bold statement, but I feel Nolan/Bale just simply nailed it.

 

[BatLobster]

I think if you took The Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole, and made it a comic book series, or a series of three graphic novels to make a comic trilogy, you'd have the greatest incarnation of Batman in comics. Or at least The Dark Knight alone would be perhaps the greatest Batman story published.

The Batman Begins comic adaptation obviously doesn't count - I'm talking a full graphic novel.

To me, that's what separates Nolan's trilogy more than other comic book films. I'd actually say this version is neck-and-neck with B:TAS as THE defining version of the character. That's a bold statement, but I feel Nolan/Bale just simply nailed it.

I agree with this. To me The Dark Knight Trilogy is the greatest, most complete Batman tale ever told. BTAS is like something parallel to the comics itself, it's too vast to be considered "one" story, but it exists as a wholly definitive Bat-universe.

But in terms of story, TDK trilogy nails it. You could adapt the story of these three movies to any medium and I'd love it. A graphic novel like you said, a video game- heck, make an animated version of the trilogy in the Timm-verse. You really can't go wrong, it's just three really strong Batman stories that showcase a wide range of emotions, characters and genres, but in the end form a coherent whole.

 

[Rocketman]

I agree with this. To me The Dark Knight Trilogy is the greatest, most complete Batman tale ever told. BTAS is like something parallel to the comics itself, it's too vast to be considered "one" story, but it exists as a wholly definitive Bat-universe.

But in terms of story, TDK trilogy nails it. You could adapt the story of these three movies to any medium and I'd love it. A graphic novel like you said, a video game- heck, make an animated version of the trilogy in the Timm-verse. You really can't go wrong, it's just three really strong Batman stories that showcase a wide range of emotions, characters and genres, but in the end form a coherent whole.

And I think (and pardon me for being controversial here) the thing that made these three movies really work was that it seemed like Nolan/Nolan/Goyer's goal was to write three good stories first. Not good Batman stories, just good stories. And the icing on the cake was that they were Batman movies. I know this isn't a popular opinion, especially when we get into talk about TDK being an extended Law & Order episode with Batman/Joker randomly sandwiched in, or how it was trying to be a realistic crime drama that just happens to have a guy dressed like a bat in it.

It's just the opposite for me. I think these characters provide a massive, limitless canvas for epic, powerful storytelling, and Nolan initially stripped away and ignored the characters and said, "Okay, epic, powerful storytelling. Let's focus on that first, and then go back to the characters who make that possible."

In other words, it's the complete opposite of, say, Schumacher, who's approach is, "Let's just put together a 'Batman' movie real quick, and it'll have Batman, and Robin, and throw in Mr. Freeze, and, and, and Poison Ivy, and it'll be a 'Batman' movie." Yes, it's a 'Batman' movie... but that's all it is.

It's almost as if Nolan made the perfect Batman movies by purposely trying to NOT make Batman movies. I notice this every time I watch Batman Begins. All of a sudden, about an hour into the movie, there's Batman. I get so caught up in the damn story and how emotionally compelling it is, I forget that this guy is actually going to be Batman later on in the film. I feel like, "Whoa, wait a minute, this is a damn good film AND I get Batman in it?!"

This is the mark of true genius to me. And you won't see this in any other comic book movies, ever. Man of Steel looks like it has the potential of doing this, but I am cautiously optimistic until opening night.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to discount or speak poorly of every other comic book movie out there. I think what Nolan did for Batman could definitely be done to Spider-Man, Daredevil, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and so on. These are all fantastic characters who deserve the same treatment. I'm speaking purely of Nolan's talent. But I'm also aware of the fact that Batman is kind of a unique, singular character in the whole superhero roster.

Ah hell, I don't know what I'm saying.

 

[batfreakforever]

I don't care were the critisisms come from. I love this film, this trilogy. **** the people who hate this film, this trilogy. Nobody will sway me otherwise.

 

[zeroapoc]

What a ridiculous set of options for this poll.

 

[Shikamaru]

I agree with this. To me The Dark Knight Trilogy is the greatest, most complete Batman tale ever told. BTAS is like something parallel to the comics itself, it's too vast to be considered "one" story, but it exists as a wholly definitive Bat-universe.

But in terms of story, TDK trilogy nails it. You could adapt the story of these three movies to any medium and I'd love it. A graphic novel like you said, a video game- heck, make an animated version of the trilogy in the Timm-verse. You really can't go wrong, it's just three really strong Batman stories that showcase a wide range of emotions, characters and genres, but in the end form a coherent whole.

If you're talking about just Batman TAS, then you're right. If you're looking at the whole DCAU as a whole, then I disagree with you on that. I thought the DCAU from start to finish was the perfect life story of Batman, showcasing his origin to his days solo fighting mobsters to meeting Robin to encountering his rogues gallery to creating the Bat Family to meeting Superman to creating the JL and fighting global threats to his retirement to his revivement through Terry and finally, to his death (though we don't see him die or know when he will die but you get my point). I think that if you were to map out comic book Batman's entire life from start to finish, you would get something similar to the DCAU especially now since the Batman Beyond comic takes place in the mainstream DCU.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Question: Where does most of TDK's criticism come from?

Answer: People defending TDKR.

How wrong you are.

Bringing up TDK is just a way to show how things can go unnoticed in one film but not the other. Both films have their fair share of flaws, but I love them both. My two favorite CBMs.

 

[Shikamaru]

I agree with this. To me The Dark Knight Trilogy is the greatest, most complete Batman tale ever told. BTAS is like something parallel to the comics itself, it's too vast to be considered "one" story, but it exists as a wholly definitive Bat-universe.

But in terms of story, TDK trilogy nails it. You could adapt the story of these three movies to any medium and I'd love it. A graphic novel like you said, a video game- heck, make an animated version of the trilogy in the Timm-verse. You really can't go wrong, it's just three really strong Batman stories that showcase a wide range of emotions, characters and genres, but in the end form a coherent whole.

If you're talking about just Batman TAS, then you're right. If you're looking at the whole DCAU as a whole, then I disagree with you on that. I thought the DCAU from start to finish was the perfect life story of Batman, showcasing his origin to his days solo fighting mobsters to meeting Robin to encountering his rogues gallery to creating the Bat Family to meeting Superman to creating the JL and fighting global threats to his retirement to his revivement through Terry and finally, to his death (though we don't see him die or know when he will die but you get my point). I think that if you were to map out comic book Batman's entire life from start to finish, you would get something similar to the DCAU especially now since the Batman Beyond comic takes place in the mainstream DCU.

 

[BatLobster]

If you're talking about just Batman TAS, then you're right. If you're looking at the whole DCAU as a whole, then I disagree with you on that. I thought the DCAU from start to finish was the perfect life story of Batman, showcasing his origin to his days solo fighting mobsters to meeting Robin to encountering his rogues gallery to creating the Bat Family to meeting Superman to creating the JL and fighting global threats to his retirement to his revivement through Terry and finally, to his death (though we don't see him die or know when he will die but you get my point). I think that if you were to map out comic book Batman's entire life from start to finish, you would get something similar to the DCAU especially now since the Batman Beyond comic takes place in the mainstream DCU.

It's still hard for me to consider it "one story" due to its episodic nature. In the trilogy, there is a chain of causality where one event leads to another that runs between all the movies and there are constant thematic links, echos and mirrors. With the DCAU you have a lot of asides and one-off stories, just like any TV show does. That's what makes it more of a collection of stories to me with one very loose overarching one. Though I would agree if you're saying the DCAU is a more comic accurate representation of Batman's life for sure. I just think the trilogy is the most coherent telling of the story. I get the sense that Bruce has gone from point A to point B and is actually a changed man at the end.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'm not a huge fan of the DCAU, but I do have the main gist of the Batman part of that. Batman:TAS, Justice League and Batman Beyond. I love that Batman ended up getting this treatment that really followed his life. It's like what Nolan did, but instead of just following Bruce Wayne for 20 or so years within three films, we have a Batman that never retired until of old age.

 

[Shikamaru]

It's still hard for me to consider it "one story" due to its episodic nature. In the trilogy, there is a chain of causality where one event leads to another that runs between all the movies and there are constant thematic links, echos and mirrors. With the DCAU you have a lot of asides and one-off stories, just like any TV show does. That's what makes it more of a collection of stories to me with one very loose overarching one. Though I would agree if you're saying the DCAU is a more comic accurate representation of Batman's life for sure. I just think the trilogy is the most coherent telling of the story. I get the sense that Bruce has gone from point A to point B and is actually a changed man at the end.

I never said that the DCAU is a better "one story" for Batman than TDKT (even though I do think that). I just stated that I disagree with the notion that Batman TAS is just like the comics in the sense that the stories kept going when the whole DCAU as a whole is essentially just one part of Batman's life from start to finish.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I seriously feel that TDK was something else, a great movie and an actual new step in the superhero movie genre.

 

[BatLobster]

I never said that the DCAU is a better "one story" for Batman than TDKT (even though I do think that). I just stated that I disagree with the notion that Batman TAS is just like the comics in the sense that the stories kept going when the whole DCAU as a whole is essentially just one part of Batman's life from start to finish.

Okay, I see what you mean. But I still think it's more like the comics in that it is able to encompass far more of the Batman world by nature of there being hundreds of hours of content, similar to how there are thousands of issues of comics.

 

[Darkmania]

My only criticism of it is that it includes too much. The swarmy guy who think he has figured out Batman's identity is one small thing that could have easily been cut out.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I wouldn't have cut Coleman Reese out myself, but I would have had him killed. Bruce saves someone when he's not Batman only to witness him enter a police SUV and that blows up via the machinations of Joker and his "plan".

 

[Eggyman]

I wouldn't have cut Coleman Reese out myself, but I would have had him killed. Bruce saves someone when he's not Batman only to witness him enter a police SUV and that blows up via the machinations of Joker and his "plan".

Well it's been a strange day for me, so I shouldn't be surprised that I agree with you for once.

Let's hope it doesn't become a habit.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What's wrong with Coleman Reese? One of the underlying ideas propelling TDK was him inspiring people. We see the negatives of his influence with the fake batmen and the Joker, we see the positive influence with Harvey Dent. Coleman Reese was another one of his positive influences. A greedy opportunist becomes inspired to not be a greedy opportunist.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Well it's been a strange day for me, so I shouldn't be surprised that I agree with you for once.

Let's hope it doesn't become a habit.

Because I never have great ideas

What's wrong with Coleman Reese? One of the underlying ideas propelling TDK was him inspiring people. We see the negatives of his influence with the fake batmen and the Joker, we see the positive influence with Harvey Dent. Coleman Reese was another one of his positive influences. A greedy opportunist becomes inspired to not be a greedy opportunist.

I agree Reese serves a purpose, but I just thought it'd be suited better if he also just ended up dying in TDK as well.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Why must all the options in the poll be negative against the people who may have issues with the film? Maybe some people actually don't find this film to be the second coming of christ. Maybe people simply have problems with the film without having ulterior motives.

I have always found it slightly disappointing. I still greatly enjoy it, love it in fact. But it's the one I have the most serious quibbles with. I've just always found Bales performance stale and Bruce as a character is overshadowed by Harvey and Joker. I also feel the last act is incredibly rushed. The film was a masterclass of suspense until the hospital explosion then the narrative felt like it went into fast forward mode to compensate for all the cards Nolan layed on the table. Two-Faces story is sadly rushed imo. Eckharts performance helps save it some in my eyes though.

 

[zeroapoc]

OP might not be able to understand that some people legitimately have different opinions than him.