Which Green Lantern should be used? - Part 2

If they'd used Hal it wouldn't have been as good or as memorable. Hal has been used countless times before & it never amounted to anything.

A John movie being as terrible as what we got seems very unlikely. Unless they basically made him a black Hal, some of the bad things about the film automatically change for the better. The whole "whitewashing" bad buzz wouldn't have existed and the generation that grew up watching JLU(and was now all grown up w/disposable income) would have been interested. The main character would have looked cool instead of silly/stupid, which does matter in this genre. No boring earthly love interest since John likes to bang alien chicks. A John film would very likely have made more money. How much more is the question. A bad John film would likely make more than a bad Hal film just on the character being better and having more "curb appeal". I get different answers on this all the time from Hal fans: Did the film at least get Hal Jordan right?

This comment literally makes no sense. First, why would Hal not have been memorable on the show? He has the biggest amount of signature stories, villains and supporting characters for them to use, because he happens to be the protagonist of the GL franchise. Again, there was some great people handling that show, they would've utilized Hal in the best way possible, much better than WB and Greg Berlanti did(which also gives you my opinion on whether they got Hal right in the movie). The character and his stories can be adapted in a great way and just because you don't like him and think John is "better", doesn't mean he wouldn't have been memorable, that's some pretty wild guess there. Furthermore, Hal doesn't work because he is boring and stupid? You realize that you can introduce a character who fulfills the cocky hero type and make him "cool", without turning him into a moron? Did the general audience not respond to Star-Lord? I think they did more than well. And if they want to depict a more serious Hal they can do it just as easy. If Hal is introduced into the movie universe, he is not going to be used as some comedic relief that butts heads with Batman every two seconds, he is going to be a character that properly fits the story they try to tell. You saw what they did with Superman, you think they can't have a "serious" Hal? Like I mentioned with Guardians of the Galaxy, the idea that superheroes who fulfill the cocky womanizing stereotype can't connect to the audience, makes no sense and has been proven wrong time and time again(boy they sure as hell seem to hate Iron Man). In short, no, a bad John movie would not have been more successful than a bad Hal movie for the simple fact that people don't like bad movies.


This'll make me look like a bad guy to some of Hal's fans, but I gotta be honest. I don't want Hal in John's movie because I don't want anything there that can possibly hold the film back. I don't want people to be thinking about Hal's mess of a film. Hal got a chance on his own & John deserves a chance on his own. I'd rather see John by himself or John and Guy. They've tried for over half a century to make Hal "happen" and for whatever reason(s), it hasn't. I've heard that when you want something you've never had before, sometimes you gotta do something you've never done before. Change the "face" of the franchise if you want GL to really mean something outside of comics. Get fully behind somebody else like they have w/Hal & see what happens. Let's use that great corps aspect that GL can have over any other franchise & let somebody else shine. They also say absence makes the heart grow fonder. Give Hal a rest until his haters start to miss him. There was a time when I had nothing but apathy for Hal. You have no idea how much I miss those days.Many of these DC related media happened before his 2011 film. I honestly don't see signs of any impact they made because people still complained of whitewashing when his 2011 film was about to come out.

If the movie is good, people are not going to think of the previous one, which by that time would be almost a decade old. They didn't think of Batman & Robin when they saw Batman Begins. Just so I'm clear, I don't compare Hal to Batman in terms of main stream appeal, I'm saying that if audiences could forget that a movie about an icon like Batman was so atrocious, because the new version delivered, they can do the same thing with a lesser known character like Hal. To me having more GLs in the movie is always a plus and there won't be more needless origin stories that people are so over it. And like I said before, the notion that Hal must be replaced for the franchise to "mean something" is nothing short of ignorant. DC is a company that aims to make profit, I suspect that if Hal Jordan was as toxic of a character as you make him out to be, they would've retired him a long time ago.


I find that VERY hard to believe. Maybe some, but just as many? Nah.

I've seen more than my fair share of it. When you have different characters carrying the same superhero name with a passionate fanbase, that's what usually tends to happen. And it does on both sides, on a frequent basis. One of my main reasons to dislike the Hal/John arguments as much as I do.
 
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Supes, Bats, and Wondy....as always. Part of the strategy for season 3, when it became Unlimited, was to push John, Wally, and Marty from the spotlight to make time for new characters. The show found a balance for the other 3 members of the Big 5, but sadly not GL or Flash.

John's high point came on episode 4 and 5 (In Blackest Night), which was outstanding, but the show never focused on him like that again. The closest he got to center stage after that was "Hearts and Minds", but the show didn't delve into his pre-GL life or origin.

I respect Hawkgirl and Vixen's respective places in DC's mythos, but John could have done so much more in seasons 3 and 4 than stand in the background and decide between the two of them. John was the *Master Builder* who once wielded the power of a Guardian and was in charge of his own society. The JL 'Toon could have done so much more with him than a love triangle.
It was a damn good triangle tho. He got more development than anybody else on the show. He's the one who took on the big bad in both JL season finales, not one of the big 3. They didn't really do much for the big 3 because they didn't really need to. The show didn't "make" them like it did John. They're icons. The stuff you're saying is good stuff, but would have been better saved for a John series, which we might have gotten if they'd made JL:Mortal or chose him for the 2011 film. The show got John out there for the world to see &admire, which is more than the folks running DC have ever done for him before or since.
I don't mind which one they use except for the Guy Gardner one.....hell, even have one of the aliens co star.
Damn. Guy gets no love. I think he's awesome. I was happy as hell to see him get used in a Lego game. It's messed up how much of a surprise it is when a Lantern not named Hal gets to shine.
This comment literally makes no sense. First, why would Hal not have been memorable on the show? He has the biggest amount of signature stories, villains and supporting characters for them to use, because he happens to be the protagonist of the GL franchise. Again, there was some great people handling that show, they would've utilized Hal in the best way possible, much better than WB and Greg Berlanti did(which also gives you my opinion on whether they got Hal right in the movie). The character and his stories can be adapted in a great way and just because you don't like him and think John is "better", doesn't mean he wouldn't have been memorable, that's some pretty wild guess there. Furthermore, Hal doesn't work because he is boring and stupid? You realize that you can introduce a character who fulfills the cocky hero type and make him "cool", without turning him into a moron? Did the general audience not respond to Star-Lord? I think they did more than well. And if they want to depict a more serious Hal they can do it just as easy. If Hal is introduced into the movie universe, he is not going to be used as some comedic relief that butts heads with Batman every two seconds, he is going to be a character that properly fits the story they try to tell. You saw what they did with Superman, you think they can't have a "serious" Hal? Like I mentioned with Guardians of the Galaxy, the idea that superheroes who fulfill the cocky womanizing stereotype can't connect to the audience, makes no sense and has been proven wrong time and time again(boy they sure as hell seem to hate Iron Man). In short, no, a bad John movie would not have been more successful than a bad Hal movie for the simple fact that people don't like bad movies.
One bad movie can be more successful than another. Both FF movies made more than Hal's film.

I didn't say Hal was boring & stupid(just now anyway). I said he looked stupid(he did) & his love interest was boring(she was). Lol. This is why I try to avoid posting negatively as much as I used to. People see negatives that aren't even there now. I didn't say he wouldn't have been memorable. I said he wouldn't have been as memorable as John. This is of course all speculation. Neither of us know what may have been. John was like a clean slate they could do anything with, which allowed a lot of room for creativity.


What did get Hal right? Was he right in JL:War to you?
If the movie is good, people are not going to think of the previous one, which by that time would be almost a decade old. They didn't think of Batman & Robin when they saw Batman Begins. Just so I'm clear, I don't compare Hal to Batman in terms of main stream appeal, I'm saying that if audiences could forget that a movie about an icon like Batman was so atrocious, because the new version delivered, they can do the same thing with a lesser known character like Hal. To me having more GLs in the movie is always a plus and there won't be more needless origin stories that people are so over it. And like I said before, the notion that Hal must be replaced for the franchise to "mean something" is nothing short of ignorant. DC is a company that aims to make profit, I suspect that if Hal Jordan was as toxic of a character as you make him out to be, they would've retired him a long time ago.
I'm not saying it's impossible for the franchise to mean something w/him as the "face", I'm just saying it's unlikely considering what we've seen so far. He's got a looooong history of meaning nothing outside of comics. They've got nothing to lose by trying something new and I want them to. It's wasteful to have all these other options & not take advantage of them.


I've seen more than my fair share of it. When you have different characters carrying the same superhero name with a passionate fanbase, that's what usually tends to happen. And it does on both sides, on a frequent basis. One of my main reasons to dislike the Hal/John arguments as much as I do.
That's messed up. People gotta realize this ain't life or death type stuff. Fictional characters here.
 
I didn't say Hal was boring & stupid(just now anyway). I said he looked stupid(he did) & his love interest was boring(she was). Lol. This is why I try to avoid posting negatively as much as I used to. People see negatives that aren't even there now. I didn't say he wouldn't have been memorable. I said he wouldn't have been as memorable as John. This is of course all speculation. Neither of us know what may have been. John was like a clean slate they could do anything with, which allowed a lot of room for creativity.

Of course we're only speculating. I'm just against your claim that no matter how well Hal would've been portrayed, John would still be more memorable than him. Who knows what would've happened. Hal's character is good enough, his origin is interesting enough and his dynamic with the other Leaguers is compelling enough, who is to say that he wouldn't have been a breakout star on the show if he was chosen to be on the main cast.


What did get Hal right? Was he right in JL:War to you?

So far the best portrayals I've seen of him in other media are in GL: TAS and Justice League: Doom. Not surprising since the show was produced by Bruce Timm and Doom was written by Dwayne McDuffie. That gives me a good indication that Hal would've been in capable hands had he been featured on JLU, besides the cameo he made during the time-warp event.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the franchise to mean something w/him as the "face", I'm just saying it's unlikely considering what we've seen so far. He's got a looooong history of meaning nothing outside of comics. They've got nothing to lose by trying something new and I want them to. It's wasteful to have all these other options & not take advantage of them.

If he is handled by capable people(which he rarely has), he can mean a lot and then some. I'm not against them putting the spotlight on others, like I said I would always rather see multiple GLs, than just one "main" GL. The more, the merrier. I just disagree that the GL franchise can't take off with Hal, just because he has been mistreated in the past. It sure can, let someone who actually knows what they are doing handle him and it's going to be just fine.

That's messed up. People gotta realize this ain't life or death type stuff. Fictional characters here.

lol I'm well aware it's only fiction. The fan wars can just be annoying, that's all.
 
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I think it's obvious it's going to be Hal. I'd prefer John, but it doesn't really matter to me at the end of the day.
 
Nah, it's gonna be John. Everything seems to be about diversity nowadays, and WB/DC is more known for running away from their former mistakes, instead of trying to fix them. Stewart is simply the easiest choice for them. And I think it's no coincidence that the Cyborg and GL movies come out almost simultaneously. We've never had movies about two black superheroes in the same year, so the release date seems to be a strategic move. With that being said, Hal is a character that they've invested a lot in over the years, so I'm not sure they would completely put him on the back burner, but who knows.
 
Corporate synergy is very important to DC these days, so I'd be very surprised if it isn't Hal. Besides: Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman are all being played by minorities. No one is going to accuse the Justice League of not being diverse enough.
 
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You have a point. I guess when it comes to Hal Jordan, I simply distrust WB. They treated that character like garbage before, I'm not sure they even know how to treat him well.
 
Corporate synergy is very important to DC these days, so I'd be very surprised if it isn't Hal. Besides: Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman are all being played by minorities. No one is going to accuse the Justice League of not being diverse enough.

There's also nothing about Hal's character that mandates him as Caucasian. Given that the GLC has been composed of beings that range from a fly-like alien to a sentient planet, a change in the tone of a GL's hide is irrelevant.
 
You have a point. I guess when it comes to Hal Jordan, I simply distrust WB. They treated that character like garbage before, I'm not sure they even know how to treat him well.
they should know how to do the character properly , all they have to do is look at the comics/animated appearances from the character. Especially First Flight. It should've been the blueprint for the 2011 movie
 
they should know how to do the character properly , all they have to do is look at the comics/animated appearances from the character. Especially First Flight. It should've been the blueprint for the 2011 movie

No doubt.
 
There's also nothing about Hal's character that mandates him as Caucasian. Given that the GLC has been composed of beings that range from a fly-like alien to a sentient planet, a change in the tone of a GL's hide is irrelevant.
I totally agree with this.

I already know he's such a cliched choice for GL now, but Idris Elba would be amazing as either John Stewart or Hal Jordan. Preferably Hal. Hal has the nemesis, the supporting cast, the personality (he is DC's Captain Kirk or Han Solo), and most importantly, the stories.

Like Boy Scout said, "synergy". WB has used Hal in almost all media outside of the comics. He has been well established as THE Green Lantern over the past decade or so.

It'd be counterproductive for WB not to use Hal at this point.

The John vs Hal debate is comparable to a number of other legacy characters. Wally vs Barry, Terry or Dick Grayson vs Bruce, Miles vs Peter, my choice for all of these is always going to be the original.
 
Black Hal wouldn't be right nor synergy. He's been white in everything they've TRIED to establish him in. They'd also have to change comic Hal black for synergy. It would also be flat out awful to turn a white GL black when they already have a black one that people want to see. The last time DC tried something like that, they ****ed up royally and ruined Wally West.
 
Black Hal wouldn't be right nor synergy. He's been white in everything they've TRIED to establish him in. They'd also have to change comic Hal black for synergy. It would also be flat out awful to turn a white GL black when they already have a black one that people want to see. The last time DC tried something like that, they ****ed up royally and ruined Wally West.
racebended Hal Jordan>John Stewart. every time. Hal is just a better character in every way. End of story. He defines the character, he has the stories, the nemesis, the supporting cast, the name, the origin, EVERYTHING. It really is exactly the same as the Miles/Peter, Dick/Bruce, Wally/Barry debate.

Like you've said, John Stewart is a blank slate. No acclaimed stories, no frickin nemesis. What kind of worthwhile comic book hero doesn't have a nemesis? I don't need to answer that one.....In this case, being a blank slate is a negative thing. I want the filmmakers to have ample material to draw from for the movies, and John Stewart in the comics is really uninteresting. And yes, i've read/attempted to read Mosaic, it really wasn't for me. Geoff Johns' GL run is the best comics run the GL has ever had. The only time John has ever been interesting was in an animated series where he shared the spotlight with six other characters, and then later on he shared the spotlight with sixty other characters.

The only way John will ever be anywhere near as interesting as Kyle or Hal is if he steals elements of those characters.

If you were doing a quick recap of all the most important events in the GL mythos, John wouldn't even need to be mentioned. Kyle and Hal are really the only necessary characters for a GL franchise. John and Guy would be nice additions for sure though.

I'm all for more diversity on the Justice League, i love the way they've cast the League so far. If Jason Momoa can play frickin' Aquaman, then they can do a black/latino/asian/whatever Hal Jordan.
 
Black Hal wouldn't be right nor synergy. He's been white in everything they've TRIED to establish him in. They'd also have to change comic Hal black for synergy. It would also be flat out awful to turn a white GL black when they already have a black one that people want to see. The last time DC tried something like that, they ****ed up royally and ruined Wally West.

It has nothing to do with synergy, just choosing the best actor available. Dean Cain, whose birth name was Tanaka, played one of DC's Big 5 despite Superman never having been depicted as Asian. Barry Allen, another one of DC's Big 5, is currently on TV with a love interest (and likely a wife, eventually) who was first Caucasian in the comics but is now played by an African-American actress. The DCCU will feature an Aquaman who has both Samoan and Native American blood. This can be done because skin tone has rarely been a focal point of comic book characters. It's about as relevant and eye or hair color, except in rare cases like T'Challa or Martian Manhunter.

20 years ago, Will Smith would have made a great young Hal Jordan. In fact, his character in Independence Day was very Hal-like. As long as WB gets the *important* aspects of Hal correct (skills, personality, attitude, setting, ring powers), he could be played by a gay, Jewish Korean.
 
Making Hal black just so they can hire Idris Elba would be silly.
 
The point was that Jordan's ethnicity doesn't define him. Which is true, because it doesn't. There's nothing about Hal's origin story that says he "should" be Caucasian. I think it sounds silly to some people, simply because the Green Lantern line is diversified enough as it is. Pretty much the only "white guys" are Alan, Hal and Guy. John, Kyle, Simon and Jessica are all minorities.
 
I can't stand race bending characters. Just use one of the other Green Lanterns that's already a minority if you have to force diversity into the equation as a deciding factor. No point in making Hal black when you already have John Stewart established as a black character, just use John.

I'm still holding out hope that they use Hal for the Justice League movies and introduce John, Kyle and Guy in the 2020 movie. Then everyone gets their favorite Lantern for the main Green Lantern movie. Make it Green Lantern Corps movie, basically just have Hal, John, Kyle, Guy, Jade, Kilowog and Tomar-Re be the Lantern version of the Guardians of the Galaxy. Just more of a space-drama-action movie instead of a space-comedy-action movie.
 
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My main problem with this GL mess is the release date of the reboot. 2020 seems way too far away, imo. I don't see the point of getting into the GL world so many years after the major events of Man of Steel and not one but TWO Justice League movies.

If the GL reboot was slated for 2016 or 2017, WB could have used a rookie John Stewart as the lead, in order to distance themselves from the 2011 mess, make the DCAU fans happy, gain some good press (the first black led CBM of this era !) and bring something new to the audience (instead of a repeat ala ASM or a lose reboot/sequel).

In that reboot, Hal Jordan could have been reintroduced as a badass GL in his prime and a secondary but key character, in order to quietly redeem him, build the GL mythos in the background (Roscharch2012 is right, you kinda need Hal for that) and make the audience wanna see more of him this time.

Then, Hal could have been a founding member of the JL in 2017 with John popping up as a secondary but key character or in a super cool cameo.

Finally, WB could have used the two as members of the league in JL2 and co-leads of the GL sequels (while introducing Kyle and Guy).

Ugh, if only...

But with the actual release plan, even though I would like to see John way more, I think that WB will just use Hal first (again...) in JL1 and/or JL2 and make John and maaaaaaybe Kyle and Guy appear as secondary characters in the 2020 solo movie...
 
They are waiting until 2020 because the first film was a notorious flop. You don't rush reboots for notorious flops.
 
They are waiting until 2020 because the first film was a notorious flop. You don't rush reboots for notorious flops.

True, but I believe there is another reason as well for his late introduction. Green Lantern is definitely the toughest character to tackle out of all leaguers, due to his powers and the universe (quite literally so in this case) he belongs in. At this stage they are gradually building DCCU and going from more grounded to more fantastical aspects of it. Once when they introduce Green Lantern, that universe will explode with bunch of other possibilities, because he opens the door to other species, planets, potential alien threats, strange alien technology, etc.

Not to mention that, despite him seemingly belonging to SF genre, his powers and their manifestation appear more fantastical than with other leaguers. Introduction of Green Lantern and the vast universe alongside him is basically the peak point of expanding DCCU. They have to build gradually toward that point.
 
The point was that Jordan's ethnicity doesn't define him. Which is true, because it doesn't. There's nothing about Hal's origin story that says he "should" be Caucasian.

That's the case with 99 out of every 100 comic book characters. Unless a character has ethnicity specifically woven into their character, it's an irrelevant characteristic.

My main problem with this GL mess is the release date of the reboot. 2020 seems way too far away, imo. I don't see the point of getting into the GL world so many years after the major events of Man of Steel and not one but TWO Justice League movies.
.

I agree on that point, but it seems like Hal is coming to either Arrow or Flash--perhaps both. WB isn't going to completely shelve one of the Big 5 for 9 years when heroes are so hot in pop culture right now, but the 2011 movie taught them that the GL universe can't be entered into using the blueprints from other super hero films. Perhaps the extended time period will give the comic-ignorant studio execs at WB (and I'm guessing there are many) time to acquaint themselves with the complex workings of the GL mythos.
 
racebended Hal Jordan>John Stewart. every time. Hal is just a better character in every way. End of story. He defines the character, he has the stories, the nemesis, the supporting cast, the name, the origin, EVERYTHING. It really is exactly the same as the Miles/Peter, Dick/Bruce, Wally/Barry debate.

Like you've said, John Stewart is a blank slate. No acclaimed stories, no frickin nemesis. What kind of worthwhile comic book hero doesn't have a nemesis? I don't need to answer that one.....In this case, being a blank slate is a negative thing. I want the filmmakers to have ample material to draw from for the movies, and John Stewart in the comics is really uninteresting. And yes, i've read/attempted to read Mosaic, it really wasn't for me. Geoff Johns' GL run is the best comics run the GL has ever had. The only time John has ever been interesting was in an animated series where he shared the spotlight with six other characters, and then later on he shared the spotlight with sixty other characters.

The only way John will ever be anywhere near as interesting as Kyle or Hal is if he steals elements of those characters.

If you were doing a quick recap of all the most important events in the GL mythos, John wouldn't even need to be mentioned. Kyle and Hal are really the only necessary characters for a GL franchise. John and Guy would be nice additions for sure though.

I'm all for more diversity on the Justice League, i love the way they've cast the League so far. If Jason Momoa can play frickin' Aquaman, then they can do a black/latino/asian/whatever Hal Jordan.
You THINK Hal's a better character & I'm fine w/you thinking that. It's none of my concern really. I think we've had this discussion before a couple of times now. In that 1 time you say John's been interesting(which automatically puts him 1 up on Hal, who still hasn't pulled off such a feat :) ), he didn't take anything from Hal. I said he was like a blank slate because it was his 1st time being used outside of books, just like Kyle was on S:TAS. They had freedom to do whatever they felt like with him. He's damn sure not a blank slate at all after that series. Also, comic sales went up when John was being used instead of Hal back in the day a couple of times and each time the powers-that-be put an end to it. So John's been plenty interesting. DC just finds a way not to capitalize on it. Hal's just not interesting to me. Most of these "super important" story elements he has are just that. Story elements, not things that are intrinsic parts of who Hal is. Kyle had a very similar origin on S:TAS w/no problem. Any of these story elements Hal has can easily be used on a better character to increase the chance it'll finally catch on.

Also, you can downplay John's importance to JL/JLU all you want, but that show had people around the world going "WTF? Why is GL white?". It arguably carries more weight than the comics since the GA doesn't care about them. If JL/JLU John didn't matter, this debate wouldn't exist. Instead, people keep demanding John. He seems to win by a large margin in polls more often than not. Even when he loses, it's by a small margin. Kyle on the other hand is always a non-factor in this, even though DC has focused on him in the books waaaaay more than John. Why? It damn sure ain't because DC been showing John love because those fools wanted to off him. That show was a game-changer that they had all the reason in the world to take advantage of, but didn't.

It's also not like those debates because all those other legacy-starting characters mean something outside of comics. Miles isn't going against some silly looking nobody he's already successfully replaced outside of comics, he's going up against an icon named Peter Parker.
 
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You THINK Hal's a better character & I'm fine w/you thinking that. It's none of my concern really. I think we've had this discussion before a couple of times now. In that 1 time you say John's been interesting(which automatically puts him 1 up on Hal, who still hasn't pulled off such a feat :) ), he didn't take anything from Hal. I said he was like a blank slate because it was his 1st time being used outside of books, just like Kyle was on S:TAS. They had freedom to do whatever they felt like with him. He's damn sure not a blank slate at all after that series. Also, comic sales went up when John was being used instead of Hal back in the day a couple of times and each time the powers-that-be put an end to it. So John's been plenty interesting. DC just finds a way not to capitalize on it. Hal's just not interesting to me. Most of these "super important" story elements he has are just that. Story elements, not things that are intrinsic parts of who Hal is. Kyle had a very similar origin on S:TAS w/no problem. Any of these story elements Hal has can easily be used on a better character to increase the chance it'll finally catch on.

Also, you can downplay John's importance to JL/JLU all you want, but that show had people around the world going "WTF? Why is GL white?". It arguably carries more weight than the comics since the GA doesn't care about them. If JL/JLU John didn't matter, this debate wouldn't exist. Instead, people keep demanding John. He seems to win by a large margin in polls more often than not. Even when he loses, it's by a small margin. Kyle on the other hand is always a non-factor in this, even though DC has focused on him in the books waaaaay more than John. Why? It damn sure ain't because DC been showing John love because those fools wanted to off him. That show was a game-changer that they had all the reason in the world to take advantage of, but didn't
I can discredit you with a sentence.

John Stewart lacks a nemesis, therefore he is worthless as the lead Green Lantern.
 
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