Which Green Lantern should be used? - Part 2

[Rorschach2012]

Well that's why I said use both characters in a GL movie.

(though really, they could just take Hal's source material and give it to John).

Damn right. John is such a weak lead character, even the people that want him to be the lead admit that Hal would have to have a supporting role or that John would have to be a Hal/John amalgamation.

Nobody really believes in John Stewart because he just doesn't work as well as Hal as a lead character.

Quite the pissing contest we've got going on.
Just want to make this clear, either character (Hal Jordan vs Jon Stewart) could work. There isn't a right or wrong answer, or a character which is innately "superior". They could use either one and make it work with the right writers behind it.
Btw, telling someone their opinion is "completely wrong" is a tool move.

They are not equal. Hal Jordan is vastly superior. John Stewart is an underdeveloped supporting character. how familiar you are with Green Lantern? The vast majority of John Stewart fans have only seen JL TAS. I wouldn't be surprised if you fell into that category.

any GL fan would recognize that the Hal/Sinestro relationship is the reason another GL movie should be made.

 

[Flint Marko]

Quite the pissing contest we've got going on.
Just want to make this clear, either character (Hal Jordan vs Jon Stewart) could work. There isn't a right or wrong answer, or a character which is innately "superior". They could use either one and make it work with the right writers behind it.
Btw, telling someone their opinion is "completely wrong" is a tool move.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Mark my words. If John ever leads a Green Lantern movie series, Hal will be involved, or he will be a Hal/John amalgamation. John doesn't work as a lead without major changes. He's not a strong enough character as is.

They'll steal from Hal to make John work because he just doesn't work well as a lead without a MAJOR overhaul.

If John is used, he'll basically be a black Hal Jordan named John Stewart.

 

[DrCosmic]

Wow, well that's... extensive. My turn. *interlocks fingers and flips palms outwards in a stretch to crack knucles*

One thing I think it may be surprising to know is that John Stewart, when he headlines a comic has been more popular than Hal. Back when John Stewart had Green Lantern Mosaic, he was selling 200,000 copies an issue, while Hal wasn't doing half that. Even now, ever since John Stewart took over Green Lantern Corps, it's been getting closer and closer to overtaking the main Green Lantern book in sales.

The point made, that John Stewart has more mainstream appeal than Hal Jordan is solid. Even the dressed down JLU version is more beloved by the GA, and would have brought them out to a GL movie in larger numbers. This is to say nothing of the comic book character who is simply too deep to be boiled down to Han Solo/Maverick. Over and over again, John has shown if he is put in a lead position, he proves to just be a better character and make for better stories than Hal. Now you might disagree that these stories that are more appealing to more people are better, and that's fine, but anyone who describes John Stewart as a stoic who doesn't work as a lead character simply needs to read more comics.

Now, this is not because Hal is a bad character by the way, but the nature of Hal and other characters like him is to be an expy for uber-machoness, and that limits what he can do and be as a character, because he has to be perfect, he has to be right, he has to be justified. John Stewart isn't justified, he's human, and that's why the stories that star him connect with people on a deeper level than Hal's stories do, even though Hal is much cooler, because that is his purpose, to be cool, cool gets old. Cool gets tiring. Perhaps not for the hardest core of fans, but for the GA, we've seen cool before, lots of times, and better than what Hal has to offer. Cool won't cut it.

Now Ror is talking about the Green Lantern mythology and how it should be, and he has a point too, that the GL mythology is built with Hal at the forefront, no matter what, it finds a way to put him the center of the action and the decision making. It just seems like the more it does that, the more Hal is put up front and expected to be as beloved as he was by the children who first encountered him 30 years ago - and for the same reasons - the less he's actually liked. I think that might be a good lesson for the GL franchise to learn. John Stewart and his particular viewpoints were instrumental in making JLU what it was, but Hal Jordan really is along for the ride in his storylines. Anyone who was naturally the best GL ever could do that, and characters with real personalities would be more interesting doing so, and would actually drive the story with more than just their overwhelming abilities.

GLTAS was a great series, but the John Stewart episodes of the JL and JLU are still looked back upon fondly and with critical acclaim ten years later, they were not just more beloved than GLTAS (the entire JLTAS was), but they were among the most commercially and critically successful episodes of JLTAS. This kind of nuanced personal drama is exactly why John makes for a better lead, why the layered 'butchered' GL mythos was more appealing to the populace than the "proper" one from GLTAS/GL2011 and why I am now convinced, more than ever, after examining John's performance and reception as a lead that John Stewart is the Green Lantern to lead the franchise, and that every time he does, every bit of the GL franchise, Hal Jordan included, is better off for it.

But your point does matter going forward, because even though he's not as appealing, all things being equal, Hal is written to be the center of the GL universe. You do have to rewrite the mythos where Hal sort of becomes the Abin Sur, swept up into Parallax prompting them to recruit another human from earth, whom the secretly traitorous Sinestro makes it his personal responsibility to train, since, y'know, John is someone who actually receives training instead of blowing it off and being naturally the best GL of all time. Again, nuance, necessary interaction, real tension, makings of a great character and story. You take Carol Ferris and make her John's boss, she's the woman who finally gives him a job, a chance, and so when she gets all Sapphic, well... tough times are here again. This not only allows for these characters to be full characters beyond their servitude of the lead, making the mythos stronger, but it also eschews the tropes of 'damsel in distress' and 'by the book foil to the rogue is actually a true villain.' Not because these tropes are bad, but because they are, in concert, well played out.

So the actual advantages John offers are:

- Diversity of appearance - John doesn't look like every other superhero lead, on account of being black
- Diversity of personality - John is at times, stoic, reflective, angry, depressed, obscenely idealistic and cynically critical
- Diversity of storylines - Being the main GL, being a back up GL, running the GLC, being crippled, being a Darkstar, being a Marine Corps sniper, being an out of work architect, the Xanshi tragedy, organizing and holding the Mosaic world together, becoming a Guardian, losing a wife, rehabilitating a villain... if we look at John's actual storylines, he's done it all, and done it big.
- Diversity of constructs - as a military man and an engineer, John has the most grounded and interesting constructs around, not counting Kyle's cartoonish flights of fancy
- More commercial appeal
- More critical appeal
- Being more iconic to the GA
In short:
- Being able to do everything Hal can do
and
- Being able to do stuff Hal cannot do

Hal's selling points essentially boil down to:
- He's cooler
- He's the center of the GL mythos

So the question for the next filmmaker is, can we make Hal as appealing as John has proven to be, as diverse and layered and versatile and interesting as John has proven to be, can we make him as important culturally as John has proven to be... or is it easier if we just make John a bit cooler and put him the center of the mythos?

The choice is clear, the numbers speak for themselves, so why is it rarely chosen, or canceled when John is outselling Hal? Let's talk about what Hal really has going for him:
- He's white, meaning he's seen as more marketable, whether that's true or not
- Someone in power (Geoff Johns) wants him to be the lead

That's what Hal has going for him, and none of that is going away. Too bad, John Stewart has done wonders for the GL mythos in the past, he should be allowed to again.

 

[Rorschach2012]

John Stewart fans like yourself are so desperate to make their character work that they're willing to make him John Stewart in name only to support their bs reasoning that he works as a lead.

Hal requires no changes to work.

On one hand we have a character that REQUIRES rewriting and retooling VS a character that works perfectly as is. The choice is so obvious.

For the record, the Xanshi and Mosaic storylines are both storylines that I am familiar with, and i don't think either of them would be compelling or interesting onscreen. Even hardcore John Stewart fans admit that Hal Jordan's storylines absolutely crush John's.

EDIT: I will say this, you clearly sound informed Dr. Cosmic. You actually know what you're talking about. That's refreshing after the discussion I just had

 

[Heretic]

Hal requires no changes to work...but they changed him anyway...

In my opinion, if you invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a movie and then tell the world to go see it, then stand behind it. Green Lantern HAPPENED....and it should be part of the DC Universe going forward. However, THIS Hal Jordan does NOT deserve a franchise. He sucks. Personally, I would take a HUGE risk with the franchise...really go full out with something the general audience would not expect. The go-to storyline is obvious, but a risk for the general audience.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Damn right. John is such a weak lead character, even the people that want him to be the lead admit that Hal would have to have a supporting role or that John would have to be a Hal/John amalgamation.

Nobody really believes in John Stewart because he just doesn't work as well as Hal as a lead character.

While I'd like both characters, I don't think John wouldn't be able to lead a movie by himself, especially if they use some of of Hal's source material.

I think a retooled John could be more appealing than Hal.

Tony Stark was retooled for the Iron Man movies to make him more appealing. Batman was retooled in TDKT. Arrow is given a ton of Batman source material.

 

[Rorschach2012]

While I'd like both characters, I don't think John wouldn't be able to lead a movie by himself, especially if they use some of of Hal's source material.

I think a retooled John could be more appealing than Hal.

Tony Stark was retooled for the Iron Man movies to make him more appealing. Batman was retooled in TDKT.

What you're saying is that John Stewart has to be retooled to be more interesting than Hal, and that amalgamating him with Hal would make him more interesting ?

Damn, nobody believes in John Stewart. As is, he is a ****** character to lead a franchise. Everyone trying to hype John Stewart keeps saying that they'd depend on a movie writer to improve the character. Everyone ****ing admits that he needs to be improved or amalgamated with Hal.

The belief in John is not there because people can't really believe that John works as is. He requires extensive changes or an amalgamation.

He's really just not a strong character if all of you keep depending on a writer to vastly improve the character. That's stupid and unrealistic to expect that.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I believe in a retooled John Stewart

 

[Rorschach2012]

I like you feed, but it's pretty stupid to have blind faith in a hypothetical Hollywood writer to vastly improve a character who just isn't that great as is.

 

[DrCosmic]

There's nothing desperate about pointing out John is a proven lead and works as is. All he needs is a lead on a book and he works. As an origin story, he may need some chronology moved around, but the character doesn't need to be touched, he's one of the best and most unsung awesomeness in comics, and again, numbers back this up. I'm not sure why you call supplying numerical proof 'desperate.' That sounds like you respond to facts with namecalling. Also, John working for Ferris (who later murders his wife, if you recall) is straight out of the comics.

John works as a character. Hal does not. Hal is the one who needs retooling or an awesome storyline to hide the fact that the character himself isn't really much of a character. At least Han Solo has a face heel turn. Han shoots first. He's not perfect, he's not the most powerful guy in his story either. It makes him interesting. Hal doesn't have that. All he has is a big bright story pushing him.

Now, imagine if you took a character that works even without the best stories, and actually gave him the lead. No, don't imagine, just go and look at what happens when John is the lead. Awesomeness. Everytime. We can't say the same for Hal.

Edit: Xanshi and Mosaic would be uber awesome subplots. Blowing up a planet has never been uninteresting. Patchwork world has never been done, so not likely to be uninteresting. And again, a strength of the character, he has stories that define him. Its easy to get a story with a big bad villain who wants to destroy the universe, but something that means something to the character, and thus the audience, a little harder to come by. Stewart has that.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I like you feed, but it's pretty stupid to have blind faith in a hypothetical Hollywood writer to vastly improve a character who just isn't that great as is.

I think the character is appealing. He just hasn't done much. Johns let Hal do everything.

and I like you too Rorschach2012, even if you have become the KevinSmith of Hal Jordan

 

[DrCosmic]

What you're saying is that John Stewart has to be retooled to be more interesting than Hal, and that amalgamating him with Hal would make him more interesting ?

Damn, nobody believes in John Stewart. As is, he is a ****** character to lead a franchise. Everyone trying to hype John Stewart keeps saying that they'd depend on a movie writer to improve the character. Everyone ****ing admits that he needs to be improved or amalgamated with Hal.

The belief in John is not there because people can't really believe that John works as is. He requires extensive changes or an amalgamation.

He's really just not a strong character if all of you keep depending on a writer to vastly improve the character. That's stupid and unrealistic to expect that.

John works as is. Don't confuse shuffling the world to show off how well he works with changing even one single iota about the character itself. Don't confuse using Hal's stories with amalgamating him with Hal. Hal's stories don't define him. He is the best ever when the story starts, and the best when it ends. He simply rides the story, it's not part of who he is. There are some stories that have defined Hal, like Emerald Dawn, Emerald Twilight, Rebirth and the Secret Origin of Hal Jordan. No one is saying John should get those.

Edit: I think part of the problem with Hal is that one of his defining characteristics is being at the center of the GL mythos - as though that's a character trait. And so someone else at that position is seen as being Hal Jordan-like even though they have no more in common than Grover Cleveland and Bill Clinton, they've just occupied the same position.

 

[Rorschach2012]

There's nothing desperate about pointing out John is a proven lead and works as is. All he needs is a lead on a book and he works. As an origin story, he may need some chronology moved around, but the character doesn't need to be touched, he's one of the best and most unsung awesomeness in comics, and again, numbers back this up. I'm not sure why you call supplying numerical proof 'desperate.' That sounds like you respond to facts with namecalling. Also, John working for Ferris (who later murders his wife, if you recall) is straight out of the comics.

John works as a character. Hal does not. Hal is the one who needs retooling or an awesome storyline to hide the fact that the character himself isn't really much of a character. At least Han Solo has a face heel turn. Han shoots first. He's not perfect, he's not the most powerful guy in his story either. It makes him interesting. Hal doesn't have that. All he has is a big bright story pushing him.

Now, imagine if you took a character that works even without the best stories, and actually gave him the lead. No, don't imagine, just go and look at what happens when John is the lead. Awesomeness. Everytime. We can't say the same for Hal.

You're desperate to make him work because you're willing to accept Hal's relationships being stolen by John Stewart. You're fine with taking Hal's stories and putting John in his place. That's lame. Hal doesn't have to steal from another character to work. He just works. Accepting that a Hal/John amalgamation is necessary for John to work suggests that Hal is just the stronger character with the more interesting relationships and storylines.

I don't think John Stewart's personality is interesting. You do. Hal is just more up my alley, those types of characters have always been my bag, John Stewart is more of a generic character. He's pretty much defined by his military past. That doesn't connect with me whatsoever. He's a bore that's only ever involved in boring stories that have virtually no impact on the greater Green Lantern universe.

Hal doesn't work as a character? Okay. Geoff Johns Green Lantern run is laughing at you. That run revolutionized the character and mythology.

Thank god Geoff Johns has a say in the DCCU. I can't wait til we get Hal Jordan and Barry Allen in the Snyder movies.

 

[Rorschach2012]

John works as is. Don't confuse shuffling the world to show off how well he works with changing even one single iota about the character itself. Don't confuse using Hal's stories with amalgamating him with Hal. Hal's stories don't define him. He is the best ever when the story starts, and the best when it ends. He simply rides the story, it's not part of who he is. There are some stories that have defined Hal, like Emerald Dawn, Emerald Twilight, Rebirth and the Secret Origin of Hal Jordan. No one is saying John should get those.

Edit: I think part of the problem with Hal is that one of his defining characteristics is being at the center of the GL mythos - as though that's a character trait. And so someone else at that position is seen as being Hal Jordan-like even though they have no more in common than Grover Cleveland and Bill Clinton, they've just occupied the same position.

Some John fan you are if you're willing to have him steal all of the best aspects of Hal Jordan.
So lame and you're really reaching to make it work. John Stewart literally has to steal Hal's relationships and stories to work. You have to change so much **** up to make him work. It is desperation.

 

[DrCosmic]

You have it all wrong, Rorschach. The reason I'm not fine with taking Hal's stories and putting John in his place is because, as I said, because Hal rides his stories and John's stories define him, he has a nuanced personal connection. When Hal interacts with Carol she is his damsel in distress love interest or perhaps his psycho ex. Cliche, and has no affect on who Hal is and who he becomes. When John interacts with Carol she becomes the boss that gave him a chance when no one else would, and his wife's murderer. Not cliche, and much more interesting. That's not taking Hal's place in the story, but that's the kind of more interesting things that happen when you put John in Hal's place in the universe. John is still nothing like Hal, so calling it an amalgamation is simply incorrect. They don't have anything in common, so what's been amalgamated? Similar things happen with Sinestro, it becomes training day instead of yet another evil rival. John still has nothing in common with Hal, but when John interacts with Sinestro for an origin story, it's just more interesting and without cliches we've seen so so many times.

And if you think John is defined by his military past, a relatively new and non-dominant aspect to his personality then I'm not sure whether you find it interesting is relevant. You don't know what you're talking about.

I think the reason why you are afraid of these truths is because you like simple perfect Hal Jordan, and that fulfills the fantasies that you have. That's good. And I am aware that the Geoff Johns GL run is laughing at me, and I just look at it and shake my head as I watch John Stewart, with inferior stories and a lesser known writer slowly gain on that book because John is just a better deeper character, pound for pound. If Geoff Johns had poured that much energy into John Stewart, we'd have a billion dollar GL franchise instead of another shot at trying to get the general audience to fall in love with a character, Hal, who is nothing more than a male power fantasy. Nothing more at all. He'll continue to drag down and limit the GL franchise and the DCCU indefinitely. It's too bad, the fans deserve better, but change is scary.

 

[DrCosmic]

Some John fan you are if you're willing to have him steal all of the best aspects of Hal Jordan.
So lame and you're really reaching to make it work. John Stewart literally has to steal Hal's relationships and stories to work. You have to change so much **** up to make him work. It is desperation.

We agree then, the best aspects of Hal Jordan have nothing to do with who Hal Jordan is as a person, nothing to do with his personality, mindset, values, even abilities and talents. The best aspects of Hal Jordan are that he's at the center of the GL universe. That is his main redeeming quality. That is my point, nothing about who Hal is is worth much.

I'm reaching no further than my comic collection (and maybe a Wizard magazine). John would not be Sinestro's friend, Hal would. John would not be Carol's man, Hal would, I haven't suggested stealing anything at all. So it looks like you're the one who's really reaching to prove your point. Didn't you misquote Bruce Timm earlier, just made some **** up to sound right?

That's the smell of desperation, not going to my comic collection (and posts) and pointing out stuff that you haven't bothered to read. Or maybe you have read it and you know you're wrong and you're desperate to make your cool favorite seem like something more than just cool, so you're pretending you don't know the difference between position in the universe and place in the story, or that John Stewart is the best philosopher this side of Vertigo and has always been an architect before he was a soldier.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I feel bad for you that Hal Jordan is lost on you. He is an A list DC character with some of the all time greatest stories in the business. I'm sorry but you have very poor taste, It's argued that John's best story is Mosaic, and that was borderline unreadable compared to Johns' work.

I maintain that the only advantage John has over Hal is his diversity, and we're in an age where everyone is rightfully obsessed with race in comic book movies, so if he's chosen to be in movies, it'll be mostly due to his race since he has done virtually nothing of note in the comics, and is clearly a secondary character who lives in the shadow of a superior character.

Stealing Hal's relationship with Sinestro and using his stories is a Hal/John amalgamation. If he replaces Hal Jordan in Hal's stories, I consider that an amalgamation. But we're arguing semantics.

Amalgamation is the action, process, or result of combining or uniting. So naturally, combining Hal's stories and relationships with John's character is an amalgamation.

This all comes down to opinion though. Hal Jordan's stories and personality are preferable to me. It seems so clear that Hal Jordan is superior though.

Having to steal from another character in order to work is proof enough. Hal Jordan is the clear choice.

You John Stewart fans are just weakening your cases the more you type. You're all admitting that in order for him to work best, he has to be a Hal amalgamation. If he was such a great character, he wouldn't require all this extensive rewriting and amalgamation.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'm sorry but these arguments are complete ****. Everyone's saying that John would be combined with Hal to work. Whatta joke, quit ignoring the obvious. Hal is THE Green Lantern. We all know this. All the GL stories worth telling on film are Hal or Kyle stories.

No John Stewart story is worthy of a movie adaptation.

Base the movie series around Blackest Night. Film 1 would be the Sinestro Corps, film 2 is Red Lanterns, film 3 is the War of Light. That'd be ****ing epic and along the lines of Star Wars.

Dr.Cosmic came up with a John solo GL storyline and it was pretty weak and small in scale compared to the potential of a Blackest Night centric storyline with Hal in the lead.

You basically have to completely come up with a John Stewart story from scratch to make it work. That's a lot of blind stupid faith to put into the writers. John fans are basically counting on Hollywood writers to make John a better character than he ever has been.

One day, you'll all come to your senses and realize that Hal's the only choice for the lead of a movie series.

 

[DrCosmic]

Again, you pretending I don't like Hal or his stories is desperation. You equating amalgamating stories with amalgamating characters is desperation, goal post moving. It's not semantic when your point is that the character is weak, in this case using your argument for story in place of character is not just semantic, it's crucial to your point, and thus desperate. You then posit that great characters don't need rewriting or amalgamation and I feel like you either haven't seen Iron Man and Batman Begins, or are simply feigning ignorance in hopes that the wholly disproven falsity of the point will be lost somehow.

We agree then that the best thing about Hal is his stories, not who he is. We agree that John brings diversity, as I said: diversity of thought, action, appearance, stories, constructs, pretty much everything, race included. Hal doesn't bring diversity, he's very same old same old. You prefer same old same old, I prefer new and interesting. I get that, that's okay.

The question is, what appeals more, Hal Jordan the vanilla male power fantasy with the ultimate weapon, or John Stewart, the guy so diverse in nature as to be almost unable to be summed up, y'know, like a real person. You seem to suggest, since we have to craft a new relationship with Sinestro (which you repeatedly falsely refer to as "stealing" Hal's relationship), that somehow audiences will like the vanilla hero more than the interesting one, because it takes less work to make the vanilla hero. In reality though, the character with more work poured into them is the better character. Someone who can't be improved (Hal can't, btw) is a bad thing from a narrative perspective.

Or another way, if the best part about Hal is his stories, then the worst part is Hal as a character. So if we are improving Hal, the first thing we do is get rid of Hal as a character.

It should be really damning that we cannot make a statement like this about any other A-list character.

 

[DrCosmic]

Wait, Ror... you said you don't like John Stewart's personality... but you don't even know his personality, so does that really count?

Dr.Cosmic came up with a John solo GL storyline and it was pretty weak and small in scale compared to the potential of a Blackest Night centric storyline with Hal in the lead.

Wrong again. Not only did I not come up with any of that, but a couple relationships is not a storyline. That's part of Hal's problem. I came up with a couple subplots, minor details, but in the world of Hal Jordan, that kind of light abstract thought counts as a story pitch.

I'm sorry but these arguments are complete ****. Everyone's saying that John would be combined with Hal to work. Whatta joke, quit ignoring the obvious. Hal is THE Green Lantern. We all know this. All the GL stories worth telling on film are Hal or Kyle stories.

No John Stewart story is worthy of a movie adaptation.

Base the movie series around Blackest Night. Film 1 would be the Sinestro Corps, film 2 is Red Lanterns, film 3 is the War of Light. That'd be ****ing epic and along the lines of Star Wars.

You basically have to completely come up with a John Stewart story from scratch to make it work. That's a lot of blind stupid faith to put into the writers. John fans are basically counting on Hollywood writers to make John a better character than he ever has been.

One day, you'll all come to your senses and realize that Hal's the only choice for the lead of a movie series.

Wait... John Stewart was in all of those stories. Since he's a better character apart from his stories, and you're using John Stewart stories, just use the more diverse John Stewart in stories John Stewart is in. You call this being stupid and making stuff from scratch, that means you don't even read the comics you're talking about.

You started this discussion claiming that others didn't know what they were talking about and dismissing their opinions. I think it's time you had some of your own medicine. Are you sure your opinion is at all valuable to anyone in determining what should be done, or that your opinion has anything at all to do with reality?

 

[Rorschach2012]

Again, you pretending I don't like Hal or his stories is desperation. You equating amalgamating stories with amalgamating characters is desperation, goal post moving. It's not semantic when your point is that the character is weak, in this case using your argument for story in place of character is not just semantic, it's crucial to your point, and thus desperate. You then posit that great characters don't need rewriting or amalgamation and I feel like you either haven't seen Iron Man and Batman Begins, or are simply feigning ignorance in hopes that the wholly disproven falsity of the point will be lost somehow.

We agree then that the best thing about Hal is his stories, not who he is. We agree that John brings diversity, as I said: diversity of thought, action, appearance, stories, constructs, pretty much everything, race included. Hal doesn't bring diversity, he's very same old same old. You prefer same old same old, I prefer new and interesting. I get that, that's okay.

The question is, what appeals more, Hal Jordan the vanilla male power fantasy with the ultimate weapon, or John Stewart, the guy so diverse in nature as to be almost unable to be summed up, y'know, like a real person. You seem to suggest, since we have to craft a new relationship with Sinestro (which you repeatedly falsely refer to as "stealing" Hal's relationship), that somehow audiences will like the vanilla hero more than the interesting one, because it takes less work to make the vanilla hero.

Or another way, if the best part about Hal is his stories, then the worst part is Hal as a character. So if we are improving Hal, the first thing we do is get rid of Hal as a character.

It should be really damning that we cannot make a statement like this about any other A-list character.

Are you willingly this dense... I love Hal's personality. He's so much more fun than John. That's what people like about Hal. I've said a million times he's a Han Solo/Kirk type and those types of characters are incredibly appealing.

We're arguing about opinions, things that can't be proven. It's so ****ing frustratingly obvious to me what I think is right, but you won't be convinced otherwise.


Hal Jordan would obviously be changed as much as Batman Begins and IM changed things. But you should know that both of those stories hewed very close to the comics. I'd expect GL to stay as close to the comics as those movies did.

The source material is there for a GL movie just like the source material was there for Batman Begins and IM. That source material features Hal Jordan as the lead. Any GL story worth taking inspiration from for film would feature Hal or Kyle as the lead.

John Stewart fans are....fools. sorry I'll never be convinced that he's the right choice for the lead of a movie series. The story is right in front of your eyes. Sinestro/Atrocitus/Blackest Night. There's the movie series.

DC believes that Hal Jordan is the star, that's why he has all the great GL stories and why he's the coolest by far. Hal has become arguably the 4th biggest DC character.

If you can't see the truth that's right in front of you, then surely i won't be able to convince you.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Wait, Ror... you said you don't like John Stewart's personality... but you don't even know his personality, so does that really count?



Wrong again. Not only did I not come up with any of that, but a couple relationships is not a storyline. That's part of Hal's problem. I came up with a couple subplots, minor details, but in the world of Hal Jordan, that kind of light abstract thought counts as a story pitch.





Wait... John Stewart was in all of those stories. Since he's a better character apart from his stories, and you're using John Stewart stories, just use the more diverse John Stewart in stories John Stewart is in. You call this being stupid and making stuff from scratch, that means you don't even read the comics you're talking about.

You started this discussion claiming that others didn't know what they were talking about and dismissing their opinions. I think it's time you had some of your own medicine. Are you sure your opinion is at all valuable to anyone in determining what should be done, or that your opinion has anything at all to do with reality?

Yeah you did come up with a storyline. It was s****y Sorry and it featured Mongul as the villain. Too small in scale and it had very little to do with any of the great GL stories that deserve to be adapted. It just proves that you have to completely craft a John Stewart story from scratch in order for it to work. There's not much quality material to draw from for a movie. While a Hal Jordan movie series writes itself. A Blackest Night movie series would be DC's Star Wars

Oh yeah and John Stewart can be left out of those mentioned stories and it... wouldn't. even. matter...


in fact, John Stewart could be left out of the entire DC universe and it wouldn't even change ANYTHING. He hasn't made his mark on the DCU, he's useless as a solo character and belongs by Hal Jordan's side, out of the spotlight.

People REALLY want John Stewart to work because he's one of the first black superhero, but the problem is that he's been in a better character's shadow since his inception. **** that, DC needs strong black characters that don't linger in the shadow of another better character.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Channing Tatum for John Stewart

 

[Rorschach2012]

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