Which Green Lantern should be used? - Part 2

Are you willingly this dense...:shr: I love Hal's personality. He's so much more fun than John. That's what people like about Hal. I've said a million times he's a Han Solo/Kirk type and those types of characters are incredibly appealing.

We're arguing about opinions, things that can't be proven. It's so ****ing frustratingly obvious to me what I think is right, but you won't be convinced otherwise.


Hal Jordan would obviously be changed as much as Batman Begins and IM changed things. But you should know that both of those stories hewed very close to the comics. I'd expect GL to stay as close to the comics as those movies did.

The source material is there for a GL movie just like the source material was there for Batman Begins and IM. That source material features Hal Jordan as the lead. Any GL story worth taking inspiration from for film would feature Hal or Kyle as the lead.

John Stewart fans are....fools. sorry :shrug: I'll never be convinced that he's the right choice for the lead of a movie series. The story is right in front of your eyes. Sinestro/Atrocitus/Blackest Night. There's the movie series.

DC believes that Hal Jordan is the star, that's why he has all the great GL stories and why he's the coolest by far. Hal has become arguably the 4th biggest DC character.

If you can't see the truth that's right in front of you, then surely i won't be able to convince you.

What you call obvious, I call marketing.

Truth is never right in front of you. Truth requires digging, reflection and insight. It requires questioning what's shoved in front of you most often and asking why. The reason why Hal is the 4th biggest character is not because of who he is as a character. You said in no unclear terms that his best aspect was his stories. That's my point, and that point will always be true, which means Hal will never be a compelling character himself.

What Hal has is compelling stories with him in the center, and while that is enough for comic book readers, it is no longer enough for comic book movie audiences, nor has it been needed for some time. The truth that's not right in front of you is that DC is not making a GL movie. This is because you are right, they are dedicated to Hal, but Hal won't work so they just... won't make a GL movie. The deeper truth is that Hal doesn't work outside of being a less interesting Han/Kirk/Marverick type. He has their fun factor, but not their depth and nuance. Those types of characters without those things are incredibly cliche, not appealing. I know that you love that personality, but you admitted the truth you fear, that that's not his main selling point.

But you'd rather not examine the truth that Hal is not the main selling point of Hal. You'd rather go with the marketing that Hal is #1 and always be #1 and that's the way it should be because that's the way it's always been. And you'll say things that are untrue, or that you have no idea about, just to backup the story you haven't even bothered to examine, and have dedicated yourself to no matter what. And have the nerve to call marketing truth.

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I have no more words. Goodnight bro.
 
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It may seem like I dislike John Stewart, I don't. I don't always feel that things should be exactly like the source material but,

In the comics, Hal is the central GL, while Kyle, John and Guy are introduced later as the other main characters. That's the perfect way to do it for film too.

I'm open to the idea of John Stewart being used in the Justice League movie, and he and Hal could share the lead role in a GL spinoff with Sinestro as the villain

The way to make everyone happy is an HBO Green Lantern series that would prominently feature all the Earth Green Lanterns.

The idea should be for any live action GL series to build towards introducing the big 4 Earth GLs . Introducing Hal first just makes the most sense. Perhaps the best way to do Green Lantern is to not even focus heavily on the origins, they could jump right into it with Hal, John, Kyle and Guy already introduced.

Focusing on the corps aspect would be smart, and it'd be a nice way to contrast with Marvels Guardians of the Galaxy. Itd be DCs answer to a space team up movie like GOTG.
Hopefully it'd be more like Star Trek or Star Wars and less like GOTG or Galaxy Quest

GOTG is a great movie but that level of silliness in a GL film would be pretty disappointing..


I definitely think we're getting some GL news very soon. I think the most likely GL live action product will be Hal Jordan on Arrow or The Flash.

And we should be hearing about Snyders plans for GL soon, someone needs to ask him about that.

It doesn't really matter which GL is used for the JL movie as long as Hal and Sinestro get their due in a live action spinoff if there ever is one.
 
I do agree with you about the marketing, cosmic. Hal is pushed way harder than John, they could put more effort into John, and Geoff Johns did a bad job of establishing John because he was too busy making Hal look awesome. I've read most of the modern from 05 on Green Lantern Corps and I personally found it much less interesting than the main GL storyline, I think it suffered from having to serve as a companion to Geoff Johns work.

DC wants us to like Hal more so he's in the best stories. They've sold me on Hal, but they can focus more on the other GLs without taking anything away from Hal.

I guess Johns work on GL isn't for everyone but for me, it's the seminal Green Lantern work if you look at it as a whole.
 
While I'd like both characters, I don't think John wouldn't be able to lead a movie by himself, especially if they use some of of Hal's source material.

I think a retooled John could be more appealing than Hal.

Tony Stark was retooled for the Iron Man movies to make him more appealing. Batman was retooled in TDKT. Arrow is given a ton of Batman source material.

Tony Stark was given proper treatment by people who understood comics. With Warner Bumbles' track record, the prospect of them retooling John makes me shutter.

I do agree with you about the marketing, cosmic. Hal is pushed way harder than John, they could put more effort into John, and Geoff Johns did a bad job of establishing John because he was too busy making Hal look awesome. I've read most of the modern from 05 on Green Lantern Corps and I personally found it much less interesting than the main GL storyline, I think it suffered from having to serve as a companion to Geoff Johns work.

DC wants us to like Hal more so he's in the best stories. They've sold me on Hal, but they can focus more on the other GLs without taking anything away from Hal.

I guess Johns work on GL isn't for everyone but for me, it's the seminal Green Lantern work if you look at it as a whole.

Co-signed. There are plenty of good non-Johns GL/GLC stories, but Johns took GL to previously unknown heights of relevance. His work will remain the defining period of GL for decades to come.
 
Objecively lookin at it I think Johns and Hal have the same equal mainstream appeal.Hal as the Charming Daredevil appeal,John has the stoic Badass appeal.Neither charcter is better than the other.

HOWEVER!Hal has been heavily marketed and is at the centre of the most epic GL stories.So Hal should be the Green lantern of choice.

On the side note though Id be intrigued to see John stewart as the main lantern in the Earth one comics.

The premise could go something like this
A group of humans and other various Alien lifeforms have been abducted by an Insane Guardian to create a new world called Mosaic.Chaos reigns in this world everyday is a fight.But amongst the humans,one man refuses to give up-John stewart.He manages to get his hands on a GL ring and with this weapon swears to bring order to Mosaic
 
I come here to discuss Green Lantern with fans. You're a virtual noob that gets visibly pissed and heated about something you're just really not familiar with. If i wanted to discuss Green Lantern with uninformed casual fans like yourself, i would initiate discussions elsewhere, in a setting completely unlike this one. This place exists for real fans to discuss things that they actually know about.

Bruce Timm hasn't worked on John Stewart since the animated series, and Timm was one of the creators of GL TAS. Why would Timm work so heavily on GL TAS if he thought that John Stewart would work better as the lead...? It seems like that would be a waste of his time. You need to accept that John Stewart is always meant to be a supporting character. The main reason John was used on JL TAS was because they needed to diversify the team. That may be disappointing to you but it's the truth. Hal just works better as the lead character.

Get informed on the topic that you're arguing so hard about. You sound pretty damn ignorant. I find it next to impossible to believe that someone would EVER prefer a side character like John Stewart when they have read and watched the same things as me.

Your opinion should be completely disregarded now that we've established that you're not even really a fan of the mythology. A Green Lantern fan that doesn't appreciate Sinestro is not a GL fan, I'm glad that you've accepted that. I will never be able to take your GL opinion seriously. You don't like Sinestro. Damn. The Green Lantern universe is ****ing lost on you man.

If you don't really care about GL that much then why do you spend so much of your time talking **** on Hal (a character that you are clearly not familiar with)
This was lame the 1st time you tried it. It's just pathetic now. Do you think anybody cares why you came here? This thread isn't about what you want it to be about. So just stop w/the lameness. This thread is for anybody who wants to state who they think should be used. There's no "fanboys or hardcore fans" only policy. I remember you saying some old "I'm not gonna debate you until you've read more GL books" type crap. Of course you continued to debate me IMMEDIATELY after saying this, but I guess you don't care about not having any credibility. You think your hardcore fanboyism can make up for it. It can't.

I don't get pissed over comments about fictional characters. It's beneath me. I leave that kind of foolishness to fanboys like yourself. If you're not insulting me, I'm cool as a cucumber. You can pretend all you want, but your actions say that you honestly care waaay too much about my opinion. Otherwise you would never feel the need to tell me how much I annoy you or waste time posting lame insults. You're not impressing anybody w/this "I've read soooo many GL books! I know what's best" crap. You can stop now, unless you can somehow prove your amazing encyclopedic knowledge of all things GL means that you know what will translate to GA cashflow....you awesome amazing & special young man you :woot:

I think WB has the potential to pull off something great instead of wasting more money promoting something that remains unpopular despite them spending and losing a fortune on it. I'm here to post my opinion on the subject, same as everybody else here. If me "talking **** on Hal" (Lol. ******** much?) infuriates some of Hal's fanboys, perhaps they should go outside of their room & hug a parent. It may help them to realize there are far more important things in the world than Hal Jordan.


So you were just talking out of your ass (again) about Bruce Timm to make Hal look good. Pathetic, desperate & transparent as hell for everybody to see. Do better. Don't talk this "get informed" stuff & then make a lame assumption like that because you think it sounds good. What a waste of post space. You'll never have any credibility w/corny stunts like this.
(though really, if they wanted to, they could just take Hal's source material and give it to John. Kitty's material was given to Wolverine in DOFP after all. Stark is creating Ultron, etc).
Bingo. Studios take what they think is interesting & put it on characters who they think it'll have the most impact with. Thus far, neither Hal nor his source material have made the GA give a damn. Maybe that stuff can work w/a more interesting character.
Wow, well that's... extensive. My turn. *interlocks fingers and flips palms outwards in a stretch to crack knucles*

One thing I think it may be surprising to know is that John Stewart, when he headlines a comic has been more popular than Hal. Back when John Stewart had Green Lantern Mosaic, he was selling 200,000 copies an issue, while Hal wasn't doing half that. Even now, ever since John Stewart took over Green Lantern Corps, it's been getting closer and closer to overtaking the main Green Lantern book in sales.

The point made, that John Stewart has more mainstream appeal than Hal Jordan is solid. Even the dressed down JLU version is more beloved by the GA, and would have brought them out to a GL movie in larger numbers. This is to say nothing of the comic book character who is simply too deep to be boiled down to Han Solo/Maverick. Over and over again, John has shown if he is put in a lead position, he proves to just be a better character and make for better stories than Hal. Now you might disagree that these stories that are more appealing to more people are better, and that's fine, but anyone who describes John Stewart as a stoic who doesn't work as a lead character simply needs to read more comics.

Now, this is not because Hal is a bad character by the way, but the nature of Hal and other characters like him is to be an expy for uber-machoness, and that limits what he can do and be as a character, because he has to be perfect, he has to be right, he has to be justified. John Stewart isn't justified, he's human, and that's why the stories that star him connect with people on a deeper level than Hal's stories do, even though Hal is much cooler, because that is his purpose, to be cool, cool gets old. Cool gets tiring. Perhaps not for the hardest core of fans, but for the GA, we've seen cool before, lots of times, and better than what Hal has to offer. Cool won't cut it.

Now Ror is talking about the Green Lantern mythology and how it should be, and he has a point too, that the GL mythology is built with Hal at the forefront, no matter what, it finds a way to put him the center of the action and the decision making. It just seems like the more it does that, the more Hal is put up front and expected to be as beloved as he was by the children who first encountered him 30 years ago - and for the same reasons - the less he's actually liked. I think that might be a good lesson for the GL franchise to learn. John Stewart and his particular viewpoints were instrumental in making JLU what it was, but Hal Jordan really is along for the ride in his storylines. Anyone who was naturally the best GL ever could do that, and characters with real personalities would be more interesting doing so, and would actually drive the story with more than just their overwhelming abilities.

GLTAS was a great series, but the John Stewart episodes of the JL and JLU are still looked back upon fondly and with critical acclaim ten years later, they were not just more beloved than GLTAS (the entire JLTAS was), but they were among the most commercially and critically successful episodes of JLTAS. This kind of nuanced personal drama is exactly why John makes for a better lead, why the layered 'butchered' GL mythos was more appealing to the populace than the "proper" one from GLTAS/GL2011 and why I am now convinced, more than ever, after examining John's performance and reception as a lead that John Stewart is the Green Lantern to lead the franchise, and that every time he does, every bit of the GL franchise, Hal Jordan included, is better off for it.

But your point does matter going forward, because even though he's not as appealing, all things being equal, Hal is written to be the center of the GL universe. You do have to rewrite the mythos where Hal sort of becomes the Abin Sur, swept up into Parallax prompting them to recruit another human from earth, whom the secretly traitorous Sinestro makes it his personal responsibility to train, since, y'know, John is someone who actually receives training instead of blowing it off and being naturally the best GL of all time. Again, nuance, necessary interaction, real tension, makings of a great character and story. You take Carol Ferris and make her John's boss, she's the woman who finally gives him a job, a chance, and so when she gets all Sapphic, well... tough times are here again. This not only allows for these characters to be full characters beyond their servitude of the lead, making the mythos stronger, but it also eschews the tropes of 'damsel in distress' and 'by the book foil to the rogue is actually a true villain.' Not because these tropes are bad, but because they are, in concert, well played out.

So the actual advantages John offers are:

- Diversity of appearance - John doesn't look like every other superhero lead, on account of being black
- Diversity of personality - John is at times, stoic, reflective, angry, depressed, obscenely idealistic and cynically critical
- Diversity of storylines - Being the main GL, being a back up GL, running the GLC, being crippled, being a Darkstar, being a Marine Corps sniper, being an out of work architect, the Xanshi tragedy, organizing and holding the Mosaic world together, becoming a Guardian, losing a wife, rehabilitating a villain... if we look at John's actual storylines, he's done it all, and done it big.
- Diversity of constructs - as a military man and an engineer, John has the most grounded and interesting constructs around, not counting Kyle's cartoonish flights of fancy
- More commercial appeal
- More critical appeal
- Being more iconic to the GA
In short:
- Being able to do everything Hal can do
and
- Being able to do stuff Hal cannot do

Hal's selling points essentially boil down to:
- He's cooler
- He's the center of the GL mythos

So the question for the next filmmaker is, can we make Hal as appealing as John has proven to be, as diverse and layered and versatile and interesting as John has proven to be, can we make him as important culturally as John has proven to be... or is it easier if we just make John a bit cooler and put him the center of the mythos?

The choice is clear, the numbers speak for themselves, so why is it rarely chosen, or canceled when John is outselling Hal? Let's talk about what Hal really has going for him:
- He's white, meaning he's seen as more marketable, whether that's true or not
- Someone in power (Geoff Johns) wants him to be the lead

That's what Hal has going for him, and none of that is going away. Too bad, John Stewart has done wonders for the GL mythos in the past, he should be allowed to again.
Good post. I've said it before, there's really nothing good about Hal that another, better character didn't do way before or do waaay better. Somebody call me when he can outSolo Solo or outKirk Kirk. It's telling when you gotta always bring up how Hal is so much like *insert much better, much more popular character here* to justify Hal's existence.
I do agree with you about the marketing, cosmic. Hal is pushed way harder than John, they could put more effort into John, and Geoff Johns did a bad job of establishing John because he was too busy making Hal look awesome. I've read most of the modern from 05 on Green Lantern Corps and I personally found it much less interesting than the main GL storyline, I think it suffered from having to serve as a companion to Geoff Johns work.

DC wants us to like Hal more so he's in the best stories.
Bingo! We spoke on this before. It was one of the rare times when you didn't come off as the worst type of fanboy going into full-on defense/nonsense mode. You should open w/this kind of level headedness next time, broseph. It's a much better & more mature look.
 
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Brainchild I think most people already came to the conclusion that you're a noob with an opinion that shouldn't be taken into account due to the fact that you've proven and admitted how little you know about this subject.

You straight up said you don't care about Sinestro. No one should read or consider your opinion at this point, you have really bad ideas and you just truly don't know what you're talking about.

You're basically an uninformed troll in my eyes, with absolutely no grasp of the Green Lantern mythology whatsoever. I'd be better off asking my little sisters opinion of Green Lantern. She too saw JL TAS, so she knows about as much as you do about the topic.
 
Annnnnd now you're speaking for everyone, not just Bruce Timm. Lmfao You still don't get it. Lame insults won't change that your fanboy arguments are weak as hell and you make weak stuff up to poorly support them. Work on that, and stop trying to turn this into some kind of dick measuring contest based on how much GL you've read. Grow up or at the very least get some better material
 
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Good post. I've said it before, there's really nothing good about Hal that another, better character didn't do way before or do waaay better. Somebody call me when he can outSolo Solo or outKirk Kirk. It's telling when you gotta always bring up how Hal is so much like *insert much better, much more popular character here* to justify Hal's existence.

Thanks man. My thought is similar, just retroactive. There's little Hal has done that can't be done better by a deeper character. Sinestro with Hal is the guy who we should all be able to tell is a villain by his name. With a more human character, they could be selling "Sinestro was right" T-shirts right along with the Magneto ones.

To parse a bit, I don't think it's about "outsoloing" Solo per se, I think the issue is that sometimes Han Solo is not HAN SOLO!!! Sometimes he's just a jerk that shoots first. Sometimes he's the guy who takes the money and runs. Sometimes James T. Kirk gets the snot beat out of him by Spock because he's an idiot and he deserves it. Hal's defining personality trait is excessive willpower, which despite the handwaving, isn't an emotion by any means. His other defining trait is being without fear, that is, lacking a crucial motivator that makes people do things that are human.

Hal works as an expy though, like a Keanu Reeve or Sam Worthington character, he exists to be without emotion, to be bland and blank so that the audience can project themselves onto him. That's craaaazy.

EDIT: I would love LOOOVE Han Solo with a Green Lantern Ring. Captain Kirk with a Green Lantern ring would be just absolutely mind-blowing.
 
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Green Lantern is lost on you both.

the primary appeal is clearly the Sinestro/Hal conflict
 
Im a longtime GL fan, I love all the human GL's even Simon Baz, but I have to admit that Hal jordan is the most important, most iconic, and he has the best stories in the comics ever.

I'd be fine with Rayner or Stewart as the GL representative in the movies but only if we get a Hal Jordan movie or TV series. His rivalry with Sinestro, his relationship with Carol and the guardians, are too important to the GL mythos to dismiss.
 
Im a longtime GL fan, I love all the human GL's even Simon Baz, but I have to admit that Hal jordan is the most important, most iconic, and he has the best stories in the comics ever.

I'd be fine with Rayner or Stewart as the GL representative in the movies but only if we get a Hal Jordan movie or TV series. His rivalry with Sinestro, his relationship with Carol and the guardians, are too important to the GL mythos to dismiss.
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The premise could go something like this
A group of humans and other various Alien lifeforms have been abducted by an Insane Guardian to create a new world called Mosaic.Chaos reigns in this world everyday is a fight.But amongst the humans,one man refuses to give up-John stewart.He manages to get his hands on a GL ring and with this weapon swears to bring order to Mosaic

I forgot to note, that is a pretty bomb storyline. I really can't be mad at it at all.

I think another advantage that John Stewart has is that if you put the whole story in space, you don't lose his supporting cast, the GLC *is* his supporting cast. First Flight has the disadvantage of cutting Carol and Tom and the Jordan family and a lot of really important stuff, but if you launch John Stewart into space early on... you don't really lose anything. Even his comic book origin story where he bucks his trainer and uncovers can be done just as easily with Katma or Kilowog or Sinestro as it is with Hal. Also you don't have to show Hal as being an obtuse jerk like he was.

I think the type of story you want to tell should determine what character you use. If you're doing a purely plot-driven thing with a static character, Hal is the best choice. This could get you a Transformers-level franchise. If you're doing a sort of typical superhero coming of age arc as they come to grips with their powers and responsibilities, then Kyle is best for that, and Hal doesn't work for, as we saw in the GL2011 film when they gave him a Kyle-style arc. This can give you a Spider-Man type of film.

If you're trying to make a unique engaging take on the superhero/sci fi genre, John Stewart is definitely your best bet. This can get you a great film that won't be compared to being a lesser version of another film or character (except by Hal fanboys, of course). If you do it right people will be trying to copy your success, not the other way around. If you're doing an irreverent sort of send up or deconstruction of superhero films, then you had better have Guy Gardner in the lead. This can get you a Kick-Ass type appeal.

I haven't read much of Simon Baz, maybe someone can fill me in. All of them fight all of the Green Lantern villains, so that's not really much of a concern, but what story are you trying to tell.
 
The bias in here...sheesh.

The point made, that John Stewart has more mainstream appeal than Hal Jordan is solid. Even the dressed down JLU version is more beloved by the GA,and would have brought them out to a GL movie in larger numbers.

You don't know that, and cannot prove that. Opinion. Fans, and superhero fans, were likely going to see the movie regardless. And did, in large part.

This is to say nothing of the comic book character who is simply too deep to be boiled down to Han Solo/Maverick.

No, because when you boil down John Stewart, you get ex-military architect.

Nor should Hal Jordan be boiled down to that.

You can reduce anything. But there's much more to Jordan than that, just as there's more to Stewart.

Over and over again, John has shown if he is put in a lead position, he proves to just be a better character and make for better stories than Hal.

I don't know how you intend to measure this...its' basically an opinion.

Now you might disagree that these stories that are more appealing to more people are better, and that's fine, but anyone who describes John Stewart as a stoic who doesn't work as a lead character simply needs to read more comics.

Agreed.

Now, this is not because Hal is a bad character by the way, but the nature of Hal and other characters like him is to be an expy for uber-machoness, and that limits what he can do and be as a character, because he has to be perfect, he has to be right, he has to be justified.

...no.

Just no.

Hal is anything but perfect. That's not remotely what his character is about. And to say otherwise is to display a gross misunderstanding of how the character has been written for oh, 30 plus years.

You're talking about a character who has screwed up CONSTANTLY, been drummed out of the Corps about a dozen times, eventually murdered much of the Corps., became a supervillain, and later became The Spectre.

He is anything but "always right" or "perfect". Historically, Hal Jordan is probably one of DC's most conflict-ridden and troubled main characters.

John Stewart isn't justified, he's human, and that's why the stories that star him connect with people on a deeper level than Hal's stories do, even though Hal is much cooler, because that is his purpose, to be cool, cool gets old. Cool gets tiring. Perhaps not for the hardest core of fans, but for the GA, we've seen cool before, lots of times, and better than what Hal has to offer. Cool won't cut it.

Again, this sounds like an opinion, and is a gross misreading of Hal Jordan as a character, as "just cool".

GLTAS was a great series, but the John Stewart episodes of the JL and JLU are still looked back upon fondly and with critical acclaim ten years later, they were not just more beloved than GLTAS (the entire JLTAS was), but they were among the most commercially and critically successful episodes of JLTAS.

Which ultimately proves nothing about which Green Lantern is better in terms of the source material.

This kind of nuanced personal drama is exactly why John makes for a better lead, why the layered 'butchered' GL mythos was more appealing to the populace than the "proper" one from GLTAS/GL2011 and why I am now convinced, more than ever, after examining John's performance and reception as a lead that John Stewart is the Green Lantern to lead the franchise, and that every time he does, every bit of the GL franchise, Hal Jordan included, is better off for it.

Elaborate?

So the actual advantages John offers are:

- Diversity of appearance - John doesn't look like every other superhero lead, on account of being black

Fair enough. But to be fair, Green Lantern doesn't look like every other superhero already, on account of being green.

- Diversity of personality - John is at times, stoic, reflective, angry, depressed, obscenely idealistic and cynically critical

Hal has also been all those things and more. There's no limiting what emotions can be presented with a character.

- Diversity of storylines - Being the main GL, being a back up GL, running the GLC, being crippled, being a Darkstar, being a Marine Corps sniper, being an out of work architect, the Xanshi tragedy, organizing and holding the Mosaic world together, becoming a Guardian, losing a wife, rehabilitating a villain... if we look at John's actual storylines, he's done it all, and done it big.

So has Hal.

These are comic book characters. Diversity of storylines is not a problem.

Hal's been the main GL, a backup GL, been drummed out of the Corps, helped rebuild the Corps, led multiple Corps...was a test pilot, was military prior to this in some versions, turned on his own Corps, became a villain, was the earthly embodiment of God's wrath and redemption...

- Diversity of constructs - as a military man and an engineer, John has the most grounded and interesting constructs around, not counting Kyle's cartoonish flights of fancy

Again, there's no reason to limit the constructs a particular Green Lantern uses. John's constructs are more "structured". I wouldn't call them inherently more grounded or interesting. That's all relative.

- More commercial appeal

Arguable.

- More critical appeal

Irrelevant, really. The quality of the film a hero is in and the critical response to that is what matters, not the quality of other media featuring said hero.

- Being more iconic to the GA

Definitely arguable.

John Stewart was the GL of Justice League animated. He had a nice run in the comics for a few years.

However, before and after that, generations had grown up and gotten to know Hal Jordan in comics mythology, animated form throughout several shows and animated films, an animated series devoted specifically to his character and mythos, action figures, LEGO form, video games, and a major motion picture.

In short:
- Being able to do everything Hal can do
and

- Being able to do stuff Hal cannot do

That's also arguable, and not really relevant, as each character has their unique strengths, and there's no reason to limit what "Green Lantern" can and cannot do just because a particular character is utilized.

Hal's selling points essentially boil down to:
- He's cooler
- He's the center of the GL mythos

No.

You've basically just decided to reduce the character of Hal Jordan to suit your argument.

So the question for the next filmmaker is, can we make Hal as appealing as John has proven to be, as diverse and layered and versatile and interesting as John has proven to be, can we make him as important culturally as John has proven to be... or is it easier if we just make John a bit cooler and put him the center of the mythos?

Hals already been portrayed as diverse and layered and versatile and interesting as John has been in certain media. Just not in the major motion picture.

The choice is clear, the numbers speak for themselves, so why is it rarely chosen, or canceled when John is outselling Hal? Let's talk about what Hal really has going for him:

- He's white, meaning he's seen as more marketable, whether that's true or not
- Someone in power (Geoff Johns) wants him to be the lead

That's what Hal has going for him, and none of that is going away. Too bad, John Stewart has done wonders for the GL mythos in the past, he should be allowed to again.

And again, you're just reducing the character to suit your argument.
 
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Not everyone likes Hal in Johns' run, but how can you hate Hal in Green Lantern: First Flight or Green Lantern The Animated Series?

Both of those Hal appearances are arguably superior or equal to John Stewart's undisputed best adaptation in any media (JL TAS). There's nothing to complain about regarding Hal's personality in the animated movie or in the show.

(Blackest Night, Secret Origin, Sinestro Corps War, Emerald Twilight, Emerald Dawn)

A GL movie series should use the above stories for inspiration. The next movie has to be Sinestro vs Hal. The basic framework for that movie already exists in First Flight.

I can't be the only one that sees that Sinestro and Hal are the Joker and Batman equivalents of the Green Lantern universe.
 
The Lego Batman 3 game has a bunch of playable characters, and i think the roster would give a good idea of who WB would introduce in a GL movie series or tv show

the list includes Arkillo, Atrocitus, Bleez, Hal, John, Kilowog, Indigo 1, Larfleeze, Sinestro, Saint Walker, and Star Sapphire.

It's all the major players of Blackest Night. Like I've been saying, the best direction for a GL movie reboot is a streamlined Blackest Night storyline split into three parts.

Part 1 would introduce Hal Jordan. the Sinestro Corps and Kanjar Ro in a small role would be the primary threats. Ideally there would be a small role for a pre Red Lantern Atrocitus too.

Part 2 would introduce John Stewart and Saint Walker as new allies. The villains would be Manhunters (mostly in flashbacks), along with Atrocitus and the Red Lanterns. Larfleeze would have a small introductory role.

Part 3 would introduce Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner as new recruits. Carol Ferris would become a Star Sapphire, and we'd get an introduction to the other Star Sapphires and the Zamarons. William Hand and Nekron would be the villains. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet ultimately have to unite in order to defeat Nekron
 
The bias in here...sheesh.

You don't know that, and cannot prove that. Opinion. Fans, and superhero fans, were likely going to see the movie regardless. And did, in large part.

Just like you cannot prove that. But anecdotally, we know that many people were unpleasantly surprised it wasn't "That black guy from the cartoon." Those people were not equally likely to go see GL2011. It was, essentially, the first bad word of mouth on the film. But you're right, I can't prove that bad word of mouth hurt the film. I shouldn't have to though.

No, because when you boil down John Stewart, you get ex-military architect.

Nor should Hal Jordan be boiled down to that.

You can reduce anything. But there's much more to Jordan than that, just as there's more to Stewart.

Boiling John down to his occupations misses his persona entirely. You're not even describing the basics of the character, just labeling him. "Reducing" Hal to another character who is a fighter pilot who gets kicked out of stuff and has the same consequence-less flaws as Hal doesn't actually miss anything, except his Green Lantern powers.

I don't know how you intend to measure this...its' basically an opinion.

Comparing commercial and critical acclaim in similar circumstances. GL Mosaic vs GL vol 2. JLTAS GL vs GLTAS GL. It's not even close.

...no.

Just no.

Hal is anything but perfect. That's not remotely what his character is about. And to say otherwise is to display a gross misunderstanding of how the character has been written for oh, 30 plus years.

You're talking about a character who has screwed up CONSTANTLY, been drummed out of the Corps about a dozen times, eventually murdered much of the Corps., became a supervillain, and later became The Spectre.

He is anything but "always right" or "perfect". Historically, Hal Jordan is probably one of DC's most conflict-ridden and troubled main characters.

Again, this sounds like an opinion, and is a gross misreading of Hal Jordan as a character, as "just cool".

Ah, I see where you're coming from pre-Johns Hal. The more I learn about that guy, the more I like him. Unfortunately, in the modern era, much of what you're describing was not done by Hal, but by Parallax, a different character, the embodiment of fear. Hal couldn't do those things because Hal "doesn't do fear." Even his problems with the Guardians has been explained as the Oans being evil fascist megalomaniacs. There's a new non-drunk origin story too, iirc. The Hal you're talking about, who is not perfect and always right no longer exists.

Which ultimately proves nothing about which Green Lantern is better in terms of the source material.

We're not talking about better source material, we're talking about what GL should be used for a movie, which translates into a better or more successful film. My argument is that a richer more well received lead character will do that, even if they are infrequently a lead.

Elaborate?

Well, John Stewart being kinda awesome is what allowed Hal to be a character who could quit the Corps, and the book still continue. If they had a pseudo-Hal, as Guy originally was, or someone less awesome, the storyline would not have worked. Even in his origin, John Stewart allowed Hal to be a prejudiced *****ebag, and be proven wrong, making his character more well rounded and more relevant. John, and the 'controversy' about using him in JLTAS made the show more relevant than ever, and proved to be one of the deepest most dynamic characters on there, free to do things like date Hawkgirl, date his trainer, change his look to update the series, and generally just make GL one of the most dominant memorable things about a dominant memorable series. Because he was different. Because he wasn't tied down to the Superhero tropes (cliches?), further, they weren't even available to him or else he'd be a "black Hal." "Green Lantern" being known to this age group is crucial, for reasons you likely know.

Hal has also been all those things and more. There's no limiting what emotions can be presented with a character.

I'm not talking about emotions (idealistic isn't an emotion, for instance), I'm talking about characterizations, the core of the character. When Hal summarizes himself, he's basically the ultimate Green Lantern, in so many words. When John summarizes himself... you get something diverse.

So has Hal.

These are comic book characters. Diversity of storylines is not a problem.

Hal's been the main GL, a backup GL, been drummed out of the Corps, helped rebuild the Corps, led multiple Corps...was a test pilot, was military prior to this in some versions, turned on his own Corps, became a villain, was the earthly embodiment of God's wrath and redemption...

This is a good point. I don't consider it relevant because the modern Hal Jordan could never partake in most of these storylines, but you have raised a good point. Keep in mind that the most diverse of these storylines were taken up because Hal was becoming less and less popular, and that they are not part of the core of the character or what fans would expect or even accept from a Hal-centric trilogy.

Again, there's no reason to limit the constructs a particular Green Lantern uses. John's constructs are more "structured". I wouldn't call them inherently more grounded or interesting. That's all relative.

Yes there is. I think this is a key component of the discussion that you haven't seen yet. The nature/themes/core of a character inform the rest of the story. You can't just drop Clark Kent into Batman's story and Bruce Wayne into Superman's story, their themes are not compatible. The character informs everything else, including constructs, heroic arc and things of that nature.

Arguable.

Clearly. :oldrazz: Still, I've provided numbers and examples.

Irrelevant, really. The quality of the film a hero is in and the critical response to that is what matters, not the quality of other media featuring said hero.

Not at all, a character being received better, on the basis of the character's nature, in one media gives the next media a starting point that will be at least as well received by the same audience. This is the same reason why we have multiple movies with Lex Luthor and none with Ultra Humanite. The quality of a character before they get to the screenwriter is definitely relevant.

Definitely arguable.

John Stewart was the GL of Justice League animated. He had a nice run in the comics for a few years.

However, before and after that, generations had grown up and gotten to know Hal Jordan in comics mythology, animated form throughout several shows and animated films, an animated series devoted specifically to his character and mythos, action figures, LEGO form, video games, and a major motion picture.

I suppose that's more arguable now. I think any positive things that have come from the modern Hal push have been skewered by the negative reception of Green Lantern. So I suppose Hal is more iconic in a bad way.

That's also arguable, and not really relevant, as each character has their unique strengths, and there's no reason to limit what "Green Lantern" can and cannot do just because a particular character is utilized.

That's not how characters work. You can't do anything with any character, because character and story are in symbiosis.

No.

You've basically just decided to reduce the character of Hal Jordan to suit your argument.

It's not my fault his advantages can be summed up. Those are two very big issues, so all the examples of his advantages mentioned so far have fallen in those two categories.

Hals already been portrayed as diverse and layered and versatile and interesting as John has been in certain media. Just not in the major motion picture.

And much of that has been retconned, and would be out of character for the Geoff Johns GL. And again, based in our reality, any GL that comes out right now will be the Geoff Johns GL.

And again, you're just reducing the character to suit your argument.

That's what movie execs do in the board rooms, they reduce characters. Acting like they'll take 60 years of comics into account would be foolish. And even if I was doing it for me and not because of the reality of the movie business, that wouldn't make me wrong either.

Basically your argument reduces to: things that people making movies think about are irrelevant to making a movie and I'm summarizing everything too much... not incorrectly, just too much.

I see no evidence here that I don't have a very strong point. You have a point too, that Hal used to be an interesting character, but that doesn't actually conflict with my point at all, as much as you try to make it.
 
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Now that the reboot is a go and it's the last of the movies to come out, I'm getting the sense that it's going to be Hal.

They're pushing the movie out as far as possible to distance it chronologically from the 2011 one. They'll nearly be 10 years apart.

Two Justice League movies will come out before it premieres. They'll likely be used to "soften the beach" for the reboot's arrival by giving the character some time to settle well with audience's opinions of him.

For these reasons, it seems that they're trying to give Hal another go with his shot at big screen stardom. If they were planning to swap him out with John or Kyle, they probably wouldn't try to prime the audience so much with incremental exposure.

As far as the comic side goes, I'm not really keeping up with the New 52's rendition of the Green Lantern lore, but isn't Hal still being pushed as the central human Lantern in the DCnU? I don't see why DC would allow their movie exposure to undermine that (unless if they're planning a new direction with another Lantern at the forefront).
 
To be honest, I'd rather it strictly be about the Corps off world with maybe more than one Lantern. I jumped on board around the time Geoff Johns started his whole revamp of it, and that is definitely partly what made it great, the 4 lanterns in some combination
 
You're just so wrong DrCosmic. Sorry :shrug:

John Stewart sucks for a solo movie and you're just being a contrarian because everyone admits that John's stories suck and that Hal has by far the best stories.

They will base the reboot on Hal Jordan and his VASTLY ****ING SUPERIOR stories.

Cyborg is getting his own movie the same year that GL gets his reboot. Cyborg is already repping the diversity in the DCU. and IMO John's diversity is literally the only leg up that John has on Hal, so with that aspect pretty well covered in the DCU, there's less reason for John to be used.

PLUS, Cyborg makes more sense to promote than John Stewart. John will always be in the shadow of a superior character. Cyborg isn't a side kick or supporting character, he stands on his own, unlike John.


I really truly believe it will be Hal. Just hell no to that idea of the movie reboot being a Mosaic adaptation. WTF. I don't even understand that suggestion at all.............i swear that's on some clear contrarian sh**. Keep clinging to that dream...

the reboot is going to be part 1 of a Blackest Night saga, starting with the Sinestro Corps as the villains
 
Now that the reboot is a go and it's the last of the movies to come out, I'm getting the sense that it's going to be Hal.

They're pushing the movie out as far as possible to distance it chronologically from the 2011 one. They'll nearly be 10 years apart.

Two Justice League movies will come out before it premieres. They'll likely be used to "soften the beach" for the reboot's arrival by giving the character some time to settle well with audience's opinions of him.

For these reasons, it seems that they're trying to give Hal another go with his shot at big screen stardom. If they were planning to swap him out with John or Kyle, they probably wouldn't try to prime the audience so much with incremental exposure.

As far as the comic side goes, I'm not really keeping up with the New 52's rendition of the Green Lantern lore, but isn't Hal still being pushed as the central human Lantern in the DCnU? I don't see why DC would allow their movie exposure to undermine that (unless if they're planning a new direction with another Lantern at the forefront).


I totally agree with you 100%

Now I'm just waiting on the Hal casting announcement, along with Brainchild and Cosmic's tears
 
Lol. Very mature. I won't cry if Hal's announced. I didn't cry last time. I knew he would fail & patiently waited for it to happen. If they're not using Flash like a crutch to prop Hal's lame ass up(Hal would probably have just dragged Barry down w/him anyway), I don't see big things for another Hal solo flick. He doesn't stand well on his own. We've got plenty of time for WB/DC to come to their senses tho.
Thanks man. My thought is similar, just retroactive. There's little Hal has done that can't be done better by a deeper character. Sinestro with Hal is the guy who we should all be able to tell is a villain by his name. With a more human character, they could be selling "Sinestro was right" T-shirts right along with the Magneto ones.
Pretty much. It's hard for a villain to really become megapopular when the hero he's up against doesn't have much going for him. It's like if Darth Vader always fought Jar Jar Binks.
To parse a bit, I don't think it's about "outsoloing" Solo per se, I think the issue is that sometimes Han Solo is not HAN SOLO!!! Sometimes he's just a jerk that shoots first. Sometimes he's the guy who takes the money and runs. Sometimes James T. Kirk gets the snot beat out of him by Spock because he's an idiot and he deserves it. Hal's defining personality trait is excessive willpower, which despite the handwaving, isn't an emotion by any means. His other defining trait is being without fear, that is, lacking a crucial motivator that makes people do things that are human.

EDIT: I would love LOOOVE Han Solo with a Green Lantern Ring. Captain Kirk with a Green Lantern ring would be just absolutely mind-blowing.
Han or Kirk would be ****ing AWESOME w/a power ring!!
Green Lantern is lost on you both.

the primary appeal is clearly the Sinestro/Hal conflict
I think it's one of those "to each his own" type of things that fanboys don't seem to get. The appeal to me is the corps aspect.
Totally. As long as Geoff Johns has weight it's always going to be Hal.
Pretty much. It'd be awesome if WB cut him out of the picture because they want to actually MAKE money this time instead of losing lots &lots of it
 
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