Homecoming Which Sony elements/influences should be retained for this movie

[XtremelyBaneful]

They're not 'shutting Spidey out of the MCU' by not directly involving Feige/MS in their plans beyond the 2017 film.

The only way they'd be 'shutting Spidey out of the MCU' is if they ended the deal they've made, which I don't see happening.

that's what I meant, not keeping spidey around in the mcu

 

[DigificWriter]

^ The place where you and I seem to differ is in our views on whether or not Sony has to allow Feige and MS a continued creative say in their post-2017 plans in order for the deal they've struck to remain intact. I don't believe that they do, at least based on the parameters of the deal as we've seen them outlined.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Sony won't be the ones ending this deal because it benefits them immensely to keep it going.

They keep full control of their license - even though they feel like they need to rebrand it - and get help from MS if/when they want it without having to actually share any of the tangible rewards generated by choosing if/when to let MS help them out.

They're letting MS help them NOW because they feel like they need that help, but the way the deal is structured, they're not obligated to let MS help them if they feel like they've got things under control. All they have to do to keep the deal going is to let MS occasionally 'borrow' their licensed characters, while they get the benefits associated with 'holding all the cards' relative to how they choose to use their licensed characters themselves - and whether to directly accept help from MS in doing so.

I'm just going to save this and get back to you in a few years.

That's a deal you can count on.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

^ The place where you and I seem to differ is in our views on whether or not Sony has to allow Feige and MS a continued creative say in their post-2017 plans in order for the deal they've struck to remain intact. I don't believe that they do, at least based on the parameters of the deal as we've seen them outlined.

"has to allow" isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying they will allow.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Okay.

I don't know whether they will or not, but they could decide not to and it wouldn't affect the validity of this deal one iota.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

^ Okay.

I don't know whether they will or not, but they could decide not to and it wouldn't affect the validity of this deal one iota.

bro, it took them shaking the mouse's hand to move forward with spiderman on the big screen. that means they knew working with marvel was the best thing to do - they recognize their achievements and talents. they could decide not to, but what I (and pretty much everyone else) have been trying to tell you is that they most likely will. hence the deal, it would not make sense for them not to.

 

[DigificWriter]

Whether they let MS have some creative say in things post-2017 or not, they still reap the full benefits afforded by this arrangement so long as they fulfill their part of it. I acknowledge that they recognize the success of what MS has done and, as you say, will probably give them at least some creative say in things, but they also have the freedom within the context of this arrangement to do what they want without having to give MS creative say in their plans, especially if they feel like they can build on what MS helps them out with by themselves.

They gave up virtually nothing and basically got everything.

 

[BarryAllen]

In all honesty, I'd like to see organic webbing again. I know web shooters are how it works in the comics, but I personally think organic webs make more sense. Since we've already seen web shooters in the TASM duology, I wouldn't mind a return to organic. I know some people may disagree though.

Yup.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

In all honesty, I'd like to see organic webbing again. I know web shooters are how it works in the comics, but I personally think organic webs make more sense. Since we've already seen web shooters in the TASM duology, I wouldn't mind a return to organic. I know some people may disagree though.

in a world in which this is scientifically possibl,e how would it make sense for the web shooters to be organic coming out of his wrists?

 

[Morbius]

Spidey did have organic webbing that came from his wrists for a brief period in the comics

 

[HanShotFirst]

Spidey did have organic webbing that came from his wrists for a brief period in the comics

You mean The Other story arc? I thought organic webbing was influenced by Raimi's movies.

 

[Spider2099]

I think he was given organic webbing briefly to keep up with the Raimi films but he just went back to mechanical web shooters.

 

[Raphi]

Honestly, now that Garfield, Stone and DeHaan are all gone (God, what a colossal waste of the latter), I can't think of anything I want them to keep.

And I'm glad the ASM2 costume is gone. Never liked it.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Web swinging effects company and costume.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Slightly tweaked TASM2 suit. That's about it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Keep the costume from ASM2.

For everything else, use the comics.

 

[SuperiorHero]

Well, since Sony was responsible for TSSM, and this movie is supposedly focusing on a younger Peter Parker dealing with high school and superhero-ing, I suggest that everyone working on the new film takes some hints from that.

On a more serious note, I say keep the ''mask on'' thing that TASM and TASM 2 had going on and keep the CGI Sony. I really liked the textures on the Lizard in TASM and I enjoyed all of the CGI in TASM 2 (although some of Electro's effects were a little over the top). Also, keep Zimmer please.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

In all honesty, I'd like to see organic webbing again. I know web shooters are how it works in the comics, but I personally think organic webs make more sense. Since we've already seen web shooters in the TASM duology, I wouldn't mind a return to organic. I know some people may disagree though.

So finally Peter Parker's nerdiness is useful to being Spider-man and you want to go back to the sad moment in history when Spidey's webbing is body fluid and Spider-man literally half spider internally.

How about no.

Mechanical webshooters and synthetic webbing are two things the ASM series (and 50 years of comics) did right.

Peter Parker needs to be a nerdy scientist to fully be Spider-man. Being a nerd actually becomes essential for Spider-man's heroics. He doesn't have spider hairs and spider physiology. That's just creepy and disgusting not to mention a lazy interpretation of the character.

I guess if they ever introduce Spider-Girl she should lay eggs. That makes more sense since she has spider abilities, right?

Mechanical webshooters and synthetic webbing are one of the coolest superhero gadgets in history. They are also one of Spider-man's greatest and most useful scientific inventions.

A four year old could come up with organics, there's nothing special or unique about them and they add nothing to Peter Parker other than make him less human and make his intelligence/nerdiness less essential.

 

[Spider2099]

Look at how beautiful the CGI is in this shot.

 

[harryoscop]

Keep: Spidey's fighting style
Don't keep: TASM2 costume, the web swinging, Zimmerman and the cheese.

 

[Spider2099]

I hate the tonal inconsistencies in the TASM films. It goes from super cheesy to really dark in a matter of seconds.

 

[fixxxer]

Thematically, I think Sony has always been (more or less) on the right track. Yes, Raimi's trilogy has been a little too "mopey" at times and Webb's take (especially TASM2) has lacked cohesion.

However, the major issues for me have been a bunch of confounding decisions that were just objectively dumb at a visceral, obvious level. The major offenders being SM3 and TASM2, of course.

* WHAT THE **** were Giamatti and Foxx doing? The former was called "The World's Best Character Actor" by Time and has been nominated for an Oscar. The latter has won an Oscar and has been nominated for another. That these gentlemen can act is indisputable. What instructions/direction could have resulted in the performances they gave is one of the world's great mysteries. On the basis of this alone, I would deeply mistrust Webb's directorial instincts.

* Crowds reacting to machine gun fire like it was some better-than-average impromptu street theater performance? No one in the production went, "um, machine guns are being fired wantonly at no one in particular... are we sure that the RATHER LARGE crowd is just going to stand around for about 10-15 minutes?" No one?

* Whatever was happening with the neighbor girl and Parker. That stuff was creepy as hell, pointless and kept going on forever. I remember waiting for her to "wear Peter's head for a few days" or something to that effect. What do you want... I was really into Silence Of The Lambs at the time.

* Tobey Macguire overacting whenever he had to portray "sadness".

* The ****ing dance montage. I literally couldn't believe what I was watching as I was watching it. That entire thing was straight-up embarrassing film-making.

* Venom. I mean, there were some aspects I liked... but for the most part, gods it was terrible. This has been discussed many times in these parts though so I won't belabor this point.

I mean, I could go on... but I think I got my point across. My overall issue isn't that they ****ed up Spidey. They didn't. Yea, I didn't agree with some of the stuff they did with the character, but those are somewhat minor quibbles. My problem is that they made way too many bizarre, stupid, indefensible decisions from a Film-making 101 perspective.

 

[MrSpyder]

I enjoyed some of Sony's EFX, but if they collaborate with another company it should work

 

[Dark Raven]

Sony's special effects for Spider-Man were, on the whole, fine and perfectly acceptable, especially for Spider-Man himself and his web swinging and web shooting. They can just improve upon that. No need to toss all of that out and get someone to try to reinvent it from scratch.

Where Marvel's main input will come in will probably be in the story and characterisation. Even if Sony kept all their effects exactly the same and didn't improve at all, but Marvel's hand could be clearly seen in making a dramatic improvement for the story and the way the characters are portrayed, that would be more than acceptable. Of course, one would hope they would improve on the effects, but even if they didn't, that is hardly the most offending part of the previous films.

 

[Zarex]

Whether they let MS have some creative say in things post-2017 or not, they still reap the full benefits afforded by this arrangement so long as they fulfill their part of it. I acknowledge that they recognize the success of what MS has done and, as you say, will probably give them at least some creative say in things, but they also have the freedom within the context of this arrangement to do what they want without having to give MS creative say in their plans, especially if they feel like they can build on what MS helps them out with by themselves.

They gave up virtually nothing and basically got everything.

With Sony taking Marvel out to the woodshed on this deal, you wonder why they couldn't reach the same agreement back before Webb's ASM reboot in 2012. Perhaps Marvel was negotiating from a position of weakness after their awful BO results in 2014?

Sony made a desperation deal, and is giving up considerable control over Spidey by having "Kevin Feige and his expert team" take over the franchise along with Ms. Pascal. Though it appears Sony could technically break away from Marvel Studios and the MCU after 2017, in reality they are stuck. Spidey's not going anywhere, which is why Sony explored creating a stand alone "Spidey-verse" before conceding.

I think everybody wins with this arrangement, but let's not pretend that having another studio's expert team in key decision making positions for your franchise is "virtually nothing"