Who could take the Maestro?

[Fading]

I wish the phrase 'bad writing' could be taken out of a who would win argument...seriously. If you hate Wolverine fine, but to say just because on paper Spiderman's faster that no one should EVER tag him is ******ed...seriously...******ed. Let's face reality folks, the worlds fastest runner doesn't win every race, he may get a cramp, he may get some wind in his eye drying it out, he may be sick that morning. Pick that apart if you want, but just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean Spiderman is always in top condition, unharmed, ready for each and every attack and so on.

Fact is you say one backhand from spiderman should knock wolverines head off...so why hasn't harder hulk hits knocked his head off? You wanna say 'bad writing' well how about how Hulks weakest hit -should- be harder than spiderman's hardest hit and then some. So if a class 100+ and basically limitless strength hulk be able to hit wolverine hard and wolverine get back up, but Super duper spiderman can apparently smack wolverines head off with ease....ya. There's being a fan boy and sticking up for your char, then there's going overboard, Hulk fanboys are bad enough with "Hulk won't lose he smash, strongest there is", but don't bring down spiderman with "Well spiderman would snap x's head off with ease".

Plus what's with all the web then leave crap? What kind of comic win is that? A true showdown in comics is fight til knock out or death, or one admits defeat. Since you can't deny Wolverine's taken harder hits than Spiderman can deal period, no denying unless your saying an enraged hulk hits far less than Spiderman..., and Wolverine gotten right back up, then spiderman just can't knock him out. Wolverine can wait spiderman out. Spiderman may control the fight, but Wolverine can take spidermans best hits, he's taken harder hits and not been knocked out many many times. So if we've come to the conclusion Hulk angry hit > Spiderman hits, and Hulk hitting wolverine and wolverine getting back up and more than good to go...but Spiderman hit knocks wolverines head off?

One slip, one bad landing, one bug in spidermans eye, taking his eyes off of Wolverine and Wolverine takes advantage, one tag fights over. Spiderman on the other hand has an opponent he'd break his hand on in reality if he punched too hard on (super strength, non superman or hulk lvl invunlerability vs. hardest metal = broken fist as when Sabertooth with superstrength did fighting wolverine in the past).

I kinda get tired of hand holding on this lol, Spiderman is my second favorite, I really like the character but some of you hype him so much. He can't hit like the hulk who has hit wolverine, he's not super speed, I think it was what 40x speed, so he's fast but no quicksilver which Wolverine has hit before if memory servers as well as other quick opponents. So one last time, Wolverine's taken >harder< hits than spiderman can do if his strength was doubled and gotten right back up, no head being knocked off. If Wolverine can take a Hulk hit, grin and jump right back in the fight enjoying it he should be able to take a spiderman hit and then some and enjoy it.

Hulk doesn't hold his hits. Hulk doesn't transform unless he's ticked. Wolverine taking a hulk hit isn't Hulk holding back, especially Hulk in ticked off I'm gonna kill you because I enjoy it Grey Hulk, or Green Hulk modes. So no more bad writing stuff, if Wolverine has taken many many many Hulk and other superstrength hits....maybe it's part of his character. Maybe it's not just 100's of isolated incidents of him taking superstrength hits, but maybe he's meant too. Healing factor starts healing on impact, the way his hand heals WHILE his claws unsheath. This means second and while spidey hits him it's already healed and healing, meaning by the time spiderman's fist leaves his face wolverine's in good shape. I mean he let that juggler dude stab and slash him repeatedly and said "I can do this all day, you can't" meaning he can heal all day, and meaning his ability to fight without going tired means spiderman can punch all day and wear down, and Wolverine be fresh hours later. We've all seen Spiderman give punishment, but it's been proven time and time again none superspeed ppl can tag spiderman.

On paper Spiderman may be 'untaggable' but why do ppl doc ock speed lvl tag spiderman constantly? I'm willing to bet Wolverine's fast as many of Spidey's villains who have tagged him, Wolverine's healing factor means Olympic+ body, no wearing down, can take hulk hits, tagged fast guys before, unbreakable skeleton, gone 60 hours fighting and getting hit by Omega Red and showed no slowing down, been knocked into orbit by someone stronger and spiderman and didn't lose his head...but ya one spiderman flick removes his head. BTW I'm figuring his head isn't removed by -HULK- lvl hits let alone 15-20 class guys like spiderman because the second any ripping in muscle occurs it's instantly healed.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Wolverine's not exactly as fast as Doc Ock's arms, which are what hit Spiderman.

And Hulk, being the absolute brute he is, probably wouldn't hit Wolverine's head all that well with that big ol' broad backhand he delivers him. Not that I'm saying Spiderman's going for this sort of damage. I'm just saying that hitting broad body hits where Wolverine's body could fully support the blow with that nice unbreakable skeleton.

And Wolverine has been shown to bleed. So his healing isn't instantaneous.

Plus, bad writing, as you so solemnly want to toss aside, would have Spider Man, who loves doing this, just webbing up Wolverine in place. And that webbing has held stronger foes than Wolverine.

And hell, if we wanted Spider Man to get deadly violent. Webbing, plus pier, plus lightpole. Just throw Wolverine into the water, and let him drown. For someone of Spiderman's constant abilities, it shouldn't really be all that hard.

The Spiderman precog thing works really well. A second off of Wolverine probably wouldn't kill Spiderman. Someone did mention about Spiderman dodging a lightning bolt once. Those usually come without warnings. Bullets, explosions, and sneak attacks. Even if a bug gets on his lens, which probably wouldn't even distract Spiderman when attacking Wolverine. And even then, I doubt a snarling, howling sluggish attacker would be enough to overtake Spiderman.

So if they just decide to not write Spiderman utilizing abilities that he normally does, one would call it bad writing.

 

[Tropico]

I wish the phrase 'bad writing' could be taken out of a who would win argument...>snip<

Wolverine has taken hits from normal people and been ko'd.
If his healing factor is immediate why does he announce so many times healing factor is STARTING to kick in after a couple of hits?
If it's so instantaneous and fast why did he let his claws in and out a few times a day so the exit wound wouldn't seal up and he didn't bleed every tiem he popped them out, kinda like an "earring hole"? I mean, it was during his bone claw phase where his healing factor was stronger.
People say Wolverine has bested people stronger than Spidey, well we can certainly say that Spidey has beaten stronger foes than Wolverine, couldn't we?

 

[Horrorfan]

Wolverine has taken hits from normal people and been ko'd.
If his healing factor is immediate why does he announce so many times healing factor is STARTING to kick in after a couple of hits?
If it's so instantaneous and fast why did he let his claws in and out a few times a day so the exit wound wouldn't seal up and he didn't bleed every tiem he popped them out, kinda like an &quot;earring hole&quot;? I mean, it was during his bone claw phase where his healing factor was stronger.
People say Wolverine has bested people stronger than Spidey, well we can certainly say that Spidey has beaten stronger foes than Wolverine, couldn't we?

Spiderman has also lost to Stiltman and Ringmaster. A feat I'm not sure Wolverine has managed to accomplish yet


But yeah the bad writing excuse is getting LAME. Its the fall back of fanboys who can't stand to see their favourite loose.


I also count what if's because if spidey fanboys didn't ***** so much then that's how it would really go . I think he takes out spidey and someone else at more or less the same time. I am pretty sure he takes out spidey in one of the 'what if's' where he was lord of the vampires too, but can't quite remember....but yeah spidey would be already dead if it wasn't up to fan support. Spidey is basically only still alive because wolverine let him live in the versus special. And I don't buy that spidey being knocked out was part of the other, even iron man said he was out cold due to blood loss....so Wolverine knocked his ass da ***** out



LOL wolverine vs spiderman was NOT a draw. It was CLEARLY implied wolverine would have spiked spiderman in the time it took mr fasty to decide if he should kill wolverine or not (and thats ASSUMING he could break adamantium, which he probably couldn't). Hell wolverine delivers the ultimate in smack talk, giving a MONOLOGUE about how he could kill him if he wished before spidey ever made up his mind. If he could deliver a monologue he could sure pop his claws. Basically, spidey is still alive only due to the grace of wolverine in that issue. Im surprised even spidey fan boys can't see that was a loss. Besides, if spiderman did kill wolverine, it wouldnt be spidey any more. even I know that.



LOL I swear some of you would say spiderman is faster than flash, superman and quicksilver combined.

 

[kiuju2k]

wow this thread is still going on.. oops i bumped this one too. Damnit.

 

[Tropico]

People are right! Spidey can't win against Logan. Now, if Spidey had a rifle butt to hit him with, Logan goes down like a biatch!!!!

 

[gildea]

LOL wolverine vs spiderman was NOT a draw. It was CLEARLY implied wolverine would have spiked spiderman in the time it took mr fasty to decide if he should kill wolverine or not

If wolverine was going to the spider-sense would kick in and wolverine would instantly be regretting it.

 

[gildea]

. Since you can't deny Wolverine's taken harder hits than Spiderman can deal period, no denying unless your saying an enraged hulk hits far less than Spiderman..., and Wolverine gotten right back up, then spiderman just can't knock him out. Wolverine can wait spiderman out. Spiderman may control the fight, but Wolverine can take spidermans best hits, he's taken harder hits and not been knocked out many many times.

This is why bad writing arises in these debates. Wolverine has taken harder hits but he's also been beaten by weaker hits. Ie Daredevil took him down with one throat punch in the punisher, Cap took him down with one shield punch in wolverine, sasquatch took him down by slamming him into a wall a few times (anywhere near as hard as sasquatch is capable of as the wall was undamaged). Spidey is more than capable of bettering these so can easily knock him out.

You have a very selective memory.

 

[XFanTim]

I wish the phrase 'bad writing' could be taken out of a who would win argument...seriously. If you hate Wolverine fine, but to say just because on paper Spiderman's faster that no one should EVER tag him is ******ed...seriously...******ed. Let's face reality folks, the worlds fastest runner doesn't win every race, he may get a cramp, he may get some wind in his eye drying it out, he may be sick that morning. Pick that apart if you want, but just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean Spiderman is always in top condition, unharmed, ready for each and every attack and so on.

Fact is you say one backhand from spiderman should knock wolverines head off...so why hasn't harder hulk hits knocked his head off? You wanna say 'bad writing' well how about how Hulks weakest hit -should- be harder than spiderman's hardest hit and then some. So if a class 100+ and basically limitless strength hulk be able to hit wolverine hard and wolverine get back up, but Super duper spiderman can apparently smack wolverines head off with ease....ya. There's being a fan boy and sticking up for your char, then there's going overboard, Hulk fanboys are bad enough with "Hulk won't lose he smash, strongest there is", but don't bring down spiderman with "Well spiderman would snap x's head off with ease".

Plus what's with all the web then leave crap? What kind of comic win is that? A true showdown in comics is fight til knock out or death, or one admits defeat. Since you can't deny Wolverine's taken harder hits than Spiderman can deal period, no denying unless your saying an enraged hulk hits far less than Spiderman..., and Wolverine gotten right back up, then spiderman just can't knock him out. Wolverine can wait spiderman out. Spiderman may control the fight, but Wolverine can take spidermans best hits, he's taken harder hits and not been knocked out many many times. So if we've come to the conclusion Hulk angry hit > Spiderman hits, and Hulk hitting wolverine and wolverine getting back up and more than good to go...but Spiderman hit knocks wolverines head off?

One slip, one bad landing, one bug in spidermans eye, taking his eyes off of Wolverine and Wolverine takes advantage, one tag fights over. Spiderman on the other hand has an opponent he'd break his hand on in reality if he punched too hard on (super strength, non superman or hulk lvl invunlerability vs. hardest metal = broken fist as when Sabertooth with superstrength did fighting wolverine in the past).

I kinda get tired of hand holding on this lol, Spiderman is my second favorite, I really like the character but some of you hype him so much. He can't hit like the hulk who has hit wolverine, he's not super speed, I think it was what 40x speed, so he's fast but no quicksilver which Wolverine has hit before if memory servers as well as other quick opponents. So one last time, Wolverine's taken >harder< hits than spiderman can do if his strength was doubled and gotten right back up, no head being knocked off. If Wolverine can take a Hulk hit, grin and jump right back in the fight enjoying it he should be able to take a spiderman hit and then some and enjoy it.

Hulk doesn't hold his hits. Hulk doesn't transform unless he's ticked. Wolverine taking a hulk hit isn't Hulk holding back, especially Hulk in ticked off I'm gonna kill you because I enjoy it Grey Hulk, or Green Hulk modes. So no more bad writing stuff, if Wolverine has taken many many many Hulk and other superstrength hits....maybe it's part of his character. Maybe it's not just 100's of isolated incidents of him taking superstrength hits, but maybe he's meant too. Healing factor starts healing on impact, the way his hand heals WHILE his claws unsheath. This means second and while spidey hits him it's already healed and healing, meaning by the time spiderman's fist leaves his face wolverine's in good shape. I mean he let that juggler dude stab and slash him repeatedly and said "I can do this all day, you can't" meaning he can heal all day, and meaning his ability to fight without going tired means spiderman can punch all day and wear down, and Wolverine be fresh hours later. We've all seen Spiderman give punishment, but it's been proven time and time again none superspeed ppl can tag spiderman.

On paper Spiderman may be 'untaggable' but why do ppl doc ock speed lvl tag spiderman constantly? I'm willing to bet Wolverine's fast as many of Spidey's villains who have tagged him, Wolverine's healing factor means Olympic+ body, no wearing down, can take hulk hits, tagged fast guys before, unbreakable skeleton, gone 60 hours fighting and getting hit by Omega Red and showed no slowing down, been knocked into orbit by someone stronger and spiderman and didn't lose his head...but ya one spiderman flick removes his head. BTW I'm figuring his head isn't removed by -HULK- lvl hits let alone 15-20 class guys like spiderman because the second any ripping in muscle occurs it's instantly healed.

I'm too lazy to answer every point in this pointless argument, but there's a couple of things I just can't ignore.

First, the analogy to the world's fastest man still losing some races fails utterly, for one simple reason: the World's Fastest Man is competing against other world-class runners, who are only slightly slower than him. If he were competing against an ordinary joe like me, he would win every race. Spidey, on the other hand, is many times faster than Wolverine. (It's important to note that in comics the difference between some characters' levels of speed is far greater than for any two people in real life, because superhuman comic book characters can go far beyond the limits of normal human beings.)

Second, sometimes it is bad writing. Otherwise, you have to say that Wolverine could survive a nuke, pants intact, just because someone was dumb enough to write it. To expect us to ignore the fact that certain stories contradict both common sense and other published stories is just ridiculous.

As for Wolverine surviving Hulk's punches, don't ask me to explain that -- as far as I can tell, many comic book writers don't understand the concept of a concussion. One punch from the Hulk to Wolverine's head ought to slam his brain against his adamantium skull so hard that it leaves nothing but mush. Maybe Wolvie could still heal, but he should never be able to stand back up right after it. It also contradicts the numerous times Wolvie has been knocked out by people who are weaker than Spidey.

But yeah the bad writing excuse is getting LAME. Its the fall back of fanboys who can't stand to see their favourite loose.

Let's get one thing straight. Wolverine is the character who got me into comics. I've been a regular reader of his book, and the various X-Men books (which feature him heavily) for over 15 years. I've never been a regular reader of any Spider-man book. I probably own 50 comics featuring Wolverine for every 1 that I own which features Spider-Man.

So if I have any fanboy bias, it's in favor of Logan, not Spidey. However, unlike some comic fans, I can see past my biases to objectively assess two characters abilities, and form a reasoned conclusion on which would win. And if a writer ignores the established powerlevels of the two characters to write a story that contradicts all common sense, I'm going to call it what it is: bad writing.

The real fanboys are the ones who are willing to take one issue (say, one where Logan is fast enough to keep up with Spidey) and trumpet it over the many decades of comics in which Spidey has displayed a far greater level of speed than Wolverine. You're picking and choosing which portrayals you want to believe; I'm acknowledging that Spider-man is normally much faster than Logan, and the stories that ignore this to give them a good head-to-head match are clearly bull****.

 

[XFanTim]

This is why bad writing arises in these debates. Wolverine has taken harder hits but he's also been beaten by weaker hits. Ie Daredevil took him down with one throat punch in the punisher, Cap took him down with one shield punch in wolverine, sasquatch took him down by slamming him into a wall a few times (anywhere near as hard as sasquatch is capable of as the wall was undamaged). Spidey is more than capable of bettering these so can easily knock him out.

You have a very selective memory.

, , a thousand times

If all comic writers were consistent, there would be no need to decide which is bad writing and which is good. But they aren't. So if we want to discuss these matters, then it's up to us as the fans to determine which portrayals are the most consistent with what we know about the characters and their powers. Selectively citing a bunch of examples that make Wolverine look like he could take Spidey, even though there are lots of reasons to think these stories aren't consistent with the characters' usual power levels, is disingenuous.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The reality is many fights are based on the current popularity of the character and the comic book it is in.

Very few follow actual logic or you would never have any lobsided battles as you do.

 

[Tropico]

I still say Umar would take the Maestro or any other Hulk version easily!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Only because you're a perv.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I dont know if the Sentry would "trash him"... and im one of the few who digs the Sentry. Id say he has about a good a chance as SS or Thor would.. well depending how his day is going.

sentry is really built up as the most powerful thing ever. his mental problems are his only weakness. sentry wins, hands down.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

"Built up as" and "shown as" are two very different things, though. Sentry's shown as no more powerful than the average heavy-hitter like Thor or the Hulk or the Silver Surfer these days.

 

[Horrorfan]

No wolverine wouldn't have regretted it, because his claw would be through spidey's brain just as his spider sense kicked in. Spidey may be faster, but as you saw, wolverine slowed him down with a special technique.



Like I say, you want to say wolvie got knocked out by a rifel butt? That means, because stiltman beat spiderman, spidey is worse than one of the lamest villains out there, by your own logic

wolvie won their only big knock down drag out, knocked spidey out fairly recently, and has killed him in several what ifs. Deal with it, fanboys.

 

[Horrorfan]

and also, there is a difference between bad writing on an obviously stupid thing (ie wolvie surviving a nuke with little or no damage) , and calling 'bad writing!' EVERY time your favourite gets beaten by someone YOU don't agree should win.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I wish I could remember the issue it was (Millar's Wolverine run maybe?) where it opens with Wolverine all webbed up between two buildings with his fists right up against his head, so that if he popped his claws they'd go into his skull.
That was a good pic.

And I still say The Fury would take Maestro down.

could someone tell me that issue number?? i ant that comic. wolverine pisses me off, and i collected his comics for a while so i'd love to see that

proof right there that it all matters on the book and the writer. in theory spider-man is fast enough to web down wolvies throat and kill him. but he wouldnt. wolverine could get a "lucky" hit in - just one - and kill spider-man. but whatever else you guys are arguing about spider-man IS faster and stronger than wolverine so there isnt much argument. like hulk vs spider-man everyone would say hulk. the only way spider-man would win is by outsmarting and even then he'd need some kick-ass tech to back him up. BUT saying the hulk would beat spider-man is also different. he wouldnt and hasnt been able to land a good blow on him.

therefore going by this sort of logic i believe wolverine would never be able to get spider-man, but there's not much spider-man could do to hurt wolvie. it would essentially be a draw. but thats easy to say when one of the characters has a danger sense and the other one has a healing factor, isnt it??

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's the first issue of the new Marvel Team-Up series.

 

[Horrorfan]

And it wasn't exactly a fight- I don't think wolvie was looking for , nor expecting, spiderman to do that or act agressivly.


So basically, when the issue suits you, its great and dandy, but when it doesn't it's bad writing? Talk about hypocritical.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

And it wasn't exactly a fight- I don't think wolvie was looking for , nor expecting, spiderman to do that or act agressivly.


So basically, when the issue suits you, its great and dandy, but when it doesn't it's bad writing? Talk about hypocritical.

Are you talking to me?

 

[gildea]

could someone tell me that issue number?? i ant that comic. wolverine pisses me off, and i collected his comics for a while so i'd love to see that

It was marvel team up issue 1 i think.

 

[gildea]

wolvie won their only big knock down drag out, knocked spidey out fairly recently, and has killed him in several what ifs. Deal with it, fanboys.

Wolverine didn't knock out spidey, his illness did. And if you look at that fight wolverine was getting his butt kicked up until then. He also done nothing when spidey threw him out a window recently.

 

[Tropico]

No wolverine wouldn't have regretted it, because his claw would be through spidey's brain just as his spider sense kicked in. Spidey may be faster, but as you saw, wolverine slowed him down with a special technique.



Like I say, you want to say wolvie got knocked out by a rifel butt? That means, because stiltman beat spiderman, spidey is worse than one of the lamest villains out there, by your own logic

wolvie won their only big knock down drag out, knocked spidey out fairly recently, and has killed him in several what ifs. Deal with it, fanboys.

ZOMG! Teh Wovereean jest got hit by zome1 weeker thun Spideyr an it stuggered him!!

up:

 

[Horrorfan]

Wolverine didn't knock out spidey, his illness did. And if you look at that fight wolverine was getting his butt kicked up until then. He also done nothing when spidey threw him out a window recently.

Actually wolverine wasnt fighting back, saying he 'deserved it'. and wolverine did knock him out, even iron man said from blood loss (caused by wolverine). I dont believe, even if it was an illness, the blood loss didnt contribute to the KO. A clear knock out for wolvie