Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 3

[harryoscop]

Oh, he could definitely be a veteran. Perhaps he's a veteran engineer, who made a lot of ground-breaking technology and accomplishments in his youth only to get 'em stolen by the company he worked for (Oscorp, maybe?) long after he retired. That, coupled with the fact that his name is forgotten and he's a tad-bit nuts (like believing youth to be the problem as it never did him any good), makes him do things irrationally and for himself. There could even be some similarity with Spider-Man and Vulture in that regard. Peter's young, so maybe he's a bit reckless? And Vulture could easily be just as reckless with wanting to endanger innocent people to get what he feels is owed to him.

Money? Petty theft.
Fame? Expose Osborn as a fraud (by any means necessary) to get his name recognized properly.

All of that could be accomplished with Vulture while keeping him at a low level. Bits and pieces throughout the film (amass everything Peter is dealing with) would do the trick in my mind. Other suggestions I've seen (among these boards) are having Toomes being a teacher or principal to Peter or having him be the original inventor of Falcon's technology (an easy way to incorporate the larger Universe in).

Tons of options, lol.

Edit: As spideyboy pointed out:



And a great challenge but not necessarily a threat. I'd keep the true threats for later on.

You lost me on that one. Are you saying that Vulture shouldn't be a physical threat to Spidey? eh.. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[AvegningSpider]

You lost me on that one. Are you saying that Vulture shouldn't be a physical threat to Spidey? eh.. I'm not sure what you mean.

I think he meant the possibilities of having Vulture as the villain, the ways they could go with his character.

 

[harryoscop]

I think he meant the possibilities of having Vulture as the villain, the ways they could go with his character.

No, i'm talking about the last paragraph. He mentions that Vulture should be a challenge but not a threat.

 

[AvegningSpider]

No, i'm talking about the last paragraph. He mentions that Vulture should be a challenge but not a threat.

Challenge, eh i would say is due to him challenging Spidey in way no one did as of then, not being necesserillly a BIG THREAT that terrorizes the city and his loved ones.

 

[harryoscop]

Challenge, eh i would say is due to him challenging Spidey in way no one did as of then, not being necesserillly a BIG THREAT that terrorizes the city and his loved ones.

Oh, if that's what he meant, then awesome. I LOVE the idea of the villains getting progressively more dangerous throughout the trilogy. Basically, as Peter grows up and matures, so does his villains.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Oh, if that's what he meant, then awesome. I LOVE the idea of the villains getting progressively more dangerous throughout the trilogy. Basically, as Peter grows up and matures, so does his villains.

Me too really, probably that isn't that Pete said but i really like it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You lost me on that one. Are you saying that Vulture shouldn't be a physical threat to Spidey? eh.. I'm not sure what you mean.

I think he means "big threat" vulture can be a physical threat but hes not a "major" threat in terms of rogues

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Dude, is a Batman movie, people are going to see it, and plus as i said, if they made him more of a character like a serial killer, someone who is actually scary, or they made the movie about Bat's as a detective during the mystery of the Calendar Man, not have him be a big villain but more of a villain that you actually remember and like, it could really work.

Yeah... no.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Yeah... no.

Then let's agree to disagree.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'm not getting into the big name villain debate again, it's just stupid, however...

I still fail to see how Vulture can carry a whole movie. He wants to frame/expose Norman? This is a prime example that villains can simply be TOO small scale.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not getting into the big name villain debate again, it's just stupid, however...

I still fail to see how Vulture can carry a whole movie. He wants to frame/expose Norman? This is a prime example that villains can simply be TOO small scale.

I do agree.

Which is why i preffer to see him tied into others....

I still say.....

Spencer Smythe and Adrian Toomes were buisness partners owning a robotics company, Spencer is on his deathbed and Adrian his son is wanting to take over the buisness and have it all to himself . He frames toomes has him sent to jail, claiming all ownership to his ideas.

While in prison jameson comes to alistair about funding an anti-spiderman campaign post civil war.. wanting the menace vigilante stopped.

Peter deals with robotic spider-slayers while toomes goes all ironman and builds his levitation harness in prison out of scraps

Alistair uses jamesons money to eventually merge tech with man, and create scorpion... jameson is invited to the unvieling unaware of what smythe has done, scorpion is born and views jameson as one of his creators and targets him for turning him into a monster.

Meanwhile toomes breaks out of prison, and dons his vulture suit. First breaking into a bank in attempt to bankrupt smythes corporation where he meets spidey.

Eventually gargan and toomes run into eachother and realize they have a common enemy in smythe... and team up to destroy him

Spidey is basically caught in the middle

I think it works very nicely

 

[PeterBenParker]

You lost me on that one. Are you saying that Vulture shouldn't be a physical threat to Spidey? eh.. I'm not sure what you mean.

I think he means "big threat" vulture can be a physical threat but hes not a "major" threat in terms of rogues

Challenge, eh i would say is due to him challenging Spidey in way no one did as of then, not being necesserillly a BIG THREAT that terrorizes the city and his loved ones.

Thanks for clarifying, guys. I would've myself but I forgot.

But yeah, Harry -- Vulture would still technically be a threat, but nowhere near on the level of a Gobby, Ock, etc. He'd challenge Peter more in terms of his smarts and speed as opposed to physical strength. Keep in mind, Vulture has a plethora of weapons/equipment he can use against him whilst in battle, but physical strength isn't one of 'em to me (considering Adrian's age).

Oh, if that's what he meant, then awesome. I LOVE the idea of the villains getting progressively more dangerous throughout the trilogy. Basically, as Peter grows up and matures, so does his villains.

Yep, as I stated here:

I mostly just want the first film to really set up Spidey/Peter's life, ya know? Hence why I suggested a small villain to start out with because my focus wouldn't be on the villain as much as previous films. In sequels though is where I'd have the villains become bigger and more of a challenge, because as Spidey gets more experienced and comfortable in his role, so should the villains.

I still fail to see how Vulture can carry a whole movie. He wants to frame/expose Norman? This is a prime example that villains can simply be TOO small scale.

Vulture wouldn't be carrying the whole movie. Peter/Spidey is THE plot of the movie, essentially. Vulture is just one of the problems Peter/Spidey encounters.

What was so great about Ferris Bueller? Sure, you can say it was Ferris vs. Rooney but there were also a lot of moments where Ferris was just being a kid, such as faking illness to get out of school, the rivalry with his sister, his friendship with Cameron and relationship with Sloane. That all composed one movie.

Now translate that to Spider-Man. Spider-Man has Spidey (responsibilities as a hero, being a likable and quirky wise-cracker), Peter (and his infamous Parker Luck), his click of friends (Harry, MJ, etc.), the Bugle (and all of that crew), Aunt May (bills, health, worry of Peter, etc.), and the larger world known as the MCU (Avengers).

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Vulture can be a problem, absolutely, but I'm not saying he should be THE problem. THE problem should be the dual life of Peter/Spidey, and that's it. That's why I suggest Vulture not because he's not able to hold his own (unless drastically changed), but because he just adds to the overall bigger picture I envision in my head.

As I said:

I get that it's an unpopular decision to advocate for a smaller villain when a lot of the MCU villains have been kind of weak, but I've always been far more interested in Spidey's world more than his rogue gallery -- aside from the four I mentioned in an earlier post (Gobby, Ock, Venom and Lizard) -- and I think the solo film would benefit greatly just by reintroducing us to a character we all wanna get excited about and what goes on with this iconic character before we get down to the biggies later on. I just wanna have fun first before things buckle down, personally.

Now whether you agree or disagree with that approach is completely up to you, but I was trying to balance my own personal wants and some info we've been given:

"It's not The Dark Knight. One of the special things about what we're going to try and create is that you're going to see the biggest independent film ever. It's not going to be an epic thing; it's going to be a film surrounded by these incredible things, but that follows this boy and his life. Peter Parker is a favorite of many because everyone can relate to him, and we're going to try to make everyone relate to our Peter Parker. And John Hughes is a perfect example of what we're going to try and do." -- Tom Holland

“I love the idea of making a coming-of-age high school movie. We’re really going to see Peter Parker in high school and get deeper into that side of it. He’s just 15 now.” -- Jon Watts

 

[PeterBenParker]

Also... the people hating on Vulture are [removed]

The personal attack was unnecessary, dude.

Obviously, he's not the best of Spidey's rogues gallery, but the last Spider-Man is proof that it doesn't matter how bad the source material is, but rather, it's more important how well the actor and director translate the guys to the screen. Same goes with Forrest Gump; the book was nowhere near as good as the film. There's every chance in the world for a director and John Malkovich to improve on the traditional mythology for Vulture. Open up your minds and quit being close minded.

All that matters for Vulture is that he has a good actor with a significant role and people will be pleased. I've been suggesting Jonathan Banks, myself.

Spoiler

 

[CaptainWagner]

I just don't think they're ever going to make a movie where the most prominent villain is nothing but a side plot.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I just don't think they're ever going to make a movie where the most prominent villain is nothing but a side plot.

Vulture has never really been a prominent villain, if that's what you mean. If you're referring in general, then probably not but I do think something like that could be a possibility if the info is anything to go off of.

Ah well, I digress.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Ugh no at using Lizard again

And I still think they should use 2 villains per movie, henchmen villains don't need much development and characters like Shocker and Scorpion would be perfect for that. I assume they might want to do a Sinister Six in the future so this would also help to have several villains to make the team, I wouldn't want them to be so obvious about it like the TASM movies were though.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Ugh no at using Lizard again

And I still think they should use 2 villains per movie, henchmen villains don't need much development and characters like Shocker and Scorpion would be perfect for that. I assume they might want to do a Sinister Six in the future so this would also help to have several villains to make the team, I wouldn't want them to be so obvious about it like the TASM movies were though.

First of, when did they mention Lizard?
And second, yes, have two villains per movie but have it so that one is actually important to the plot and the other either cameos, has a mini role or Post Credits.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Vulture has never really been a prominent villain, if that's what you mean. If you're referring in general, then probably not but I do think something like that could be a possibility if the info is anything to go off of.

Ah well, I digress.

I was referencing you and several others thinking they would make the villain not central to the plot. I really don't think that has any chance of happening (Of course, I'm biased, since I personally don't care for the idea at all)

 

[ernesth100]

I like seeing debates. Fun to watch. Not so fun to be a part of...depending on who your debating with.

 

[AvegningSpider]

I like seeing debates. Fun to watch. Not so fun to be a part of...depending on who your debating with.

Like for example, it's fun to see Harry and Spideyboy debate and argue but if it is you against one of them or both, you are dead.
Know what, scratch that, you prepare for trouble.

 

[ernesth100]

I think the real villain of this film will be the fans.

 

[I'm Batman.]

The personal attack was unnecessary, dude.

There are no personal attacks there.

 

[Webhead2006]

they likely will be going smaller to bigger threats. As kevin did mention that awhile ago about supporting players and wanting to film feel more smaller scale like antman did. Then oh nyc is getting blown up once again by x baddie of the week. So going from the normal street thugs, to slightly powered guys, to the bigger more world threats is likely how they are going to go about things. I still curious to see how the villains will play into the hs plot and so forth.

As for villains yes almost all top lists for spidey put the osborns, ock, and venom as the top 3. Does that mean they are the only worthy guys no. He has plently of other a and b listers who be great in film too. As for the c/d list guys i still say i would love to see a few used here and there in the films as a minor montage action scene and spidey taking them out and we have more then just 1 or 2 foes he takes out over the course of the films and be oh spidey only has delt with these guys only. So you know we are building his world and hero career more and what not.

 

[AvegningSpider]

they likely will be going smaller to bigger threats. As kevin did mention that awhile ago about supporting players and wanting to film feel more smaller scale like antman did. Then oh nyc is getting blown up once again by x baddie of the week. So going from the normal street thugs, to slightly powered guys, to the bigger more world threats is likely how they are going to go about things. I still curious to see how the villains will play into the hs plot and so forth.

As for villains yes almost all top lists for spidey put the osborns, ock, and venom as the top 3. Does that mean they are the only worthy guys no. He has plently of other a and b listers who be great in film too. As for the c/d list guys i still say i would love to see a few used here and there in the films as a minor montage action scene and spidey taking them out and we have more then just 1 or 2 foes he takes out over the course of the films and be oh spidey only has delt with these guys only. So you know we are building his world and hero career more and what not.

I never got why the fascination about Venom or Carnage, they are cool but besides that i found them really meh.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Like for example, it's fun to see Harry and Spideyboy debate and argue but if it is you against one of them or both, you are dead.
Know what, scratch that, you prepare for trouble.

Ill take that as a complament lol