Who would be the villain

[regwec]

I would challenge whichever suffrage deemed Deathstroke the fourth most favoured DC villain. I suspect they are more familiar with the DCU in TV and videogames than they are with its richer history.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I would challenge whichever suffrage deemed Deathstroke the fourth most favoured DC villain. I suspect they are more familiar with the DCU in TV and videogames than they are with its richer history.

Popularity is exactly what it implies. I'm not measuring quality (though Deathstroke might get one of the best runs in comics starting this week) or history in the source material. It's that people know who he is (thanks to Teen Titans, Arkham Origins, Arrow, Son of Batman, the Arkham Assassin fan film, ect) and they think he's cool.

And no lie.

1)Joker
2)Lex Luthor
3)Darkseid
4)Deathstroke
5)Black Adam
6)Sinestro

Were the finalists of a 32+ double bracketed popularity tournament voted on by some 300+ comic book readers.

 

[regwec]

That's embarrassing. It's like Titus Andronicus being voted Shakespeare's fourth best play.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

That's embarrassing. It's like Titus Andronicus being voted Shakespeare's fourth best play.

That's your opinion though. And you're coming off as a little pretentious. As if your opinion is the only that should matter to DC fans everywhere. I think that's more embarassing.

 

[regwec]

Oh, sorry. In my eleven years here I have consistently presumed that each of us were, unless stating otherwise, expressing our own opinion. If you are articulating someone else's opinion other than your own, please make that clear.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Building off that, how about The Good, the Mad, and the Ugly?

Bruce figures out that Hugo Strange is running a new Arkham in a dangerous way (maybe Luthor or Intergang is acting as a patron for Monster Men), and grows worried for his friend, Harvey "Two-Face" Dent, as well as other, more sympathetic inmates (like a more sadly deranged Mad Hatter, etc.) Maybe Hugo's experimenting on Harvey and creating a Judge/Janus style hit-man or aggravating Harvey's split personality, encouraging Mad Hatter's delusions and brainwashing others to form a Wonderland Gang, trying to duplicate powers and psychosis with guys like Alexander Stirk for Scarecrow, or make "upgraded" versions like Magpie for Catwoman, you get the idea.

So, Batman enters Arkham's upgraded facility (or maybe he hired Catwoman to investigate, and how's after her when she gets locked inside), and finds himself allying with some of his villains against others. And maybe, to illustrate his compassion some more, he figures out that patient Vic Sage isn't really a paranoid schizophrenic, or isn't anymore, because he is uncovering a conspiracy...

I agree with the notion of Two-Face being presented as an ally, perhaps somewhat reformed. In BVS Batman talked about former allies who didn't stay good and mentioning having friends in Arkham, so I'd like to think aren't already exists as Two-Face in DCEU canon. I think it'd be cool to maybe have Batman and a cluster of friendly characters - Gordon, some Arkham employees - trying to fight out of the Asylum, and Two-Face is helping them. But only because the coin is telling him too. At various key points he flips again, so whether or not he'll turn on them is a source of constant tension.

 

[Omegabat]

That's your opinion though. And you're coming off as a little pretentious. As if your opinion is the only that should matter to DC fans everywhere. I think that's more embarassing.

Didn't see any point in arguing when someone thinks flipping Penguin has more psychological depth than fricking Deathstroke lol. It took Oswald half a century to get a decent story in the comics. For that reason alone I have no clue why Shakespeare is being dragged in to this.

I will reiterate, Penguin isn't a bad character and he has potential but he's that villain that writers and creators have to truly go "out there" with to make him a believable and compelling villain. Burton did it and Telltale seems to be doing it, a fat ass mobster who runs a club isn't going to cut it, there's no depth to that, nor is there any depth to giving him bullies to grind and carve. The staple Penguin offers nothing to Batman on any level, not psychological, not mental, certainly not intellectual or physical or even ideological. He's a safe villain that can be counted to be there all the time but never truly involved.

 

[Omegabat]

I would challenge whichever suffrage deemed Deathstroke the fourth most favoured DC villain. I suspect they are more familiar with the DCU in TV and videogames than they are with its richer history.

Deathstroke has more history than Penguin too, he's got acclaimed Teen Titan runs by Wolfman and Johns . He's about to get Priest, Penguin has one story by Hurwitz that the writer then tried to copy on to Scarecrow and Mad Hatter and Clayface.

Even Deadshot has well regarded runs by Ostrander, Simone and Gage.

 

[regwec]

Deathstroke has more history than Penguin

No, he doesn't.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Not taking sides, as I love Penguin and have nothing against Deathstroke either, but surely it must be considered objectively wrong to say a character created in 1980 has more history than a character created in 1941.

 

[TheRedWraith]

I still want a utrh story so I think they could combine UTRH with the stuck in arkham concept to make a pretty good story.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Not taking sides, as I love Penguin and have nothing against Deathstroke either, but surely it must be considered objectively wrong to say a character created in 1980 has more history than a character created in 1941.

He has more noteworthy story arcs.

For example Judas Contract was a big deal. What has Penguin ever done in the source material that shook up the universe?

 

[Musashi]

I'd like a Batman with these 3 villains:

Joker/Harley Quinn

Deadshot

The Penguin

I understand we already had 2 movies with The Joker, but it's all about demand. I love the character and i don't mind to see new adaptations of him. We don't get Batman movies every year, so if i'm gonna have to wait, at least i would like to watch those villains that really mean something to me.

 

[Omegabat]

No, he doesn't.

His backstory,past,character, supporting characters are much more fleshed out, so yes he does.

 

[Omegabat]

Not taking sides, as I love Penguin and have nothing against Deathstroke either, but surely it must be considered objectively wrong to say a character created in 1980 has more history than a character created in 1941.

Well according to comicvine, Deathstroke has 851 appearances to Penguins 1051 despite the 40 year gap between them. Slade will surpass him with in 5 years at his current rate imo. For the in universe history see my preceding post.

 

[The Joker]

Well according to comicvine, Deathstroke has 851 appearances to Penguins 1051 despite the 40 year gap between them. Slade will surpass him with in 5 years at his current rate imo. For the in universe history see my preceding post.

Actually its a 1098, and its about quality not quantity. According to Comicvine Two Face only appears in 1025 issues. Deathstroke's history with Batman is not half as significant as Penguin's and Two Face's is.

It also says Killer Croc appears in 654 issues, and Bane in 616. Does that mean Croc's history is more important with Batman than Bane's?

 

[Omegabat]

Actually its a 1098, and its about quality not quantity. According to Comicvine Two Face only appears in 1025 issues. Deathstroke's history with Batman is not half as significant as Penguin's and Two Face's is.

It also says Killer Croc appears in 654 issues, and Bane in 616. Does that mean Croc's history is more important with Batman than Bane's?

Two-Face obviously no, not even close, I'm in agreement. Penguin though, I'm not sure what history he can boast of, maybe one of constant humiliation from Batman and the rest of his rogues. I was also referring to general history in the DC universe not specifically Batman as Regwec was questioning Deathstroke's place in the larger DC universe.

Croc cant be compared with Bane , Bane means something to Batman, Croc is just a guy to be punched. With Deathstroke they can play the inverted Batman angle without making it so explicit or hokey like Killer Moth, Catman, Owlman etc. That's his appeal to me, I however cant see the appeal in Penguin being a main villain as he is consistently depicted in the comics. That character is a dead end and DC knows it, it's why they keep pushing Black Mask as the face of Gotham's underworld.

 

[The Joker]

Two-Face obviously no, not even close, I'm in agreement. Penguin though, I'm not sure what history he can boast of, maybe one of constant humiliation from Batman and the rest of his rogues. I was also referring to general history in the DC universe not specifically Batman as Regwec was questioning Deathstroke's place in the larger DC universe.

Croc cant be compared with Bane , Bane means something to Batman, Croc is just a guy to be punched. With Deathstroke they can play the inverted Batman angle without making it so explicit or hokey like Killer Moth, Catman, Owlman etc. That's his appeal to me, I however cant see the appeal in Penguin being a main villain as he is consistently depicted in the comics. That character is a dead end and DC knows it, it's why they keep pushing Black Mask as the face of Gotham's underworld.

That's all your own opinion. I'm addressing your argument of number of appearances meaning something. Which I've just proven doesn't. You seem to essentially agree with that.

Good.

 

[Omegabat]

That's all your own opinion. I'm addressing your argument of number of appearances meaning something. Which I've just proven doesn't. You seem to essentially agree with that.

Good.

The number of appearances were given with reference to general DC history.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

DC has gone out and said that Deathstroke is the anti-Batman starting with Rebirth. If he goes up against a character with prep time especially characters under his weight class THEY ARE GOING TO DIE. No debating or discussing. They're dead. That's a pretty big deal. DC wants to make Deathstroke live up to his reputation as one of their premier villains despite his ambiguous morality and fence straddling.

What has DC said about Penguin recently?

 

[Wildcard]

Has Penguin even had any truly relevant stories over the last few years?

 

[regwec]

No idea- I have no interest in DC's latest total reorganisation of its whole universe. I shall see you in six weeks, when Jervis Tetch will no doubt be Dick Grayson and Amanda Waller's love child.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Has Penguin even had any truly relevant stories over the last few years?

Nope.

 

[The Joker]

The number of appearances were given with reference to general DC history.

Which we have just established means zilch. Quantity doesn't equal quality.

DC has gone out and said that Deathstroke is the anti-Batman starting with Rebirth. If he goes up against a character with prep time especially characters under his weight class THEY ARE GOING TO DIE. No debating or discussing. They're dead. That's a pretty big deal. DC wants to make Deathstroke live up to his reputation as one of their premier villains despite his ambiguous morality and fence straddling.

What has DC said about Penguin recently?

DC has said a lot of BS about plans for characters in the past. They called Jason Todd the Anti Batman, too.

Has Penguin even had any truly relevant stories over the last few years?

Yes. He's been a part of several major DC related storylines in the last few years.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

DC has said a lot of BS about plans for characters in the past. They called Jason Todd the Anti Batman, too.

They also brought a legendary comic book writer out of retirment to write for Deathstroke's ongoing.

They didn't do that for Jason.