whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

[ms.vix]

NAH, you'd only sound like a creepy old man if you asked what kind of underwear I'm wearing (or is it just clothes? sari, don't have much experience talking to creepy old men )

Didn't James Marsden say something in an interview once about his death taking place off screen? And that he thought it left him open to do another X-Movie?

Not that it would matter. He missed out on his spot light with Phoenix... I'm crying again darnnit!!

Darn you to heck writers of X-3 and Brett Ratner and Fox! I don't like you anymore!

 

[ntcrawler]

They're too dependent on Wolverine. No matter what the threat, no matter how powerful the mutant or his doomsday machine, no matter what powers he has, you know you can always rely on a team member that has.... claws. Cyclops' ability to blow off the side of a building, Storm's ability to create massive hurricanes and tidal waves, Xavier's ability to mentally rape a whole town, and Magneto's ability to move bridges doesn't compare to.... ahem, claws.

 

[ms.vix]

YEAH! and exactly how did Xavier and Storm react???

If you're gonna kill Cyclops, (whose been there since the beginning) show some EMOTION!

That's what really sinks by battleship...

 

[ntcrawler]

NAH, you'd only sound like a creepy old man if you asked what kind of underwear I'm wearing (or is it just clothes? sari, don't have much experience talking to creepy old men )

Didn't James Marsden say something in an interview once about his death taking place off screen? And that he thought it left him open to do another X-Movie?

Not that it would matter. He missed out on his spot light with Phoenix... I'm crying again darnnit!!

Darn you to heck writers of X-3 and Brett Ratner and Fox! I don't like you anymore!

Yeah pretty much. Marsden admitted that the outcome of the scene was left vague to make it possible for him to return. His thoughts on what happened to Cyclops? Probably stuck in a telekinetic healing cocoon a la Jean. There's a reason why we all like him.

Yes you're right, he missed out to woo Phoenix at the big party going down at SF. But maybe just maybe with a little creative writing, they can still work things out. After all, if she survived millions of tons of water because something inside her wanted to live more than she did conciously, then surely she could survive being skewered by Wolverine. After all, Mystique did! Would it be acussed of being weak writing? Probably, but at this point, who cares! Enough damage has already been done that you might as well bring back the chars and give them a 2nd chance. Hell, those two deserve it alot more than Charles does!

 

[Mdizzle]

Haha, love the bit about Kitty and the first snow. Sooo true. People definitely did not react enough.

Cykes role was diminished over the course of the movies I believe...X2 he was less of a leader (yeah, he was abducted, but I guess there was the directorial decision there to keep him out a bit), and X3, well we all know what happens...booo.

Even the decision to have Xav suggest Storm in place of Scott as headmaster? Definitely pushing Scott out.

 

[Mdizzle]

Amen ntcrawler.

 

[ms.vix]

i'd like to mention also:

why not give cyclops a background story in this movie, since, y'know, it's the last the audience will see of him? it would not have justified what happened to him, but it would have numbed the pain.... a little....

btw on the official site it says Scott has a brother with similar powers. i mean, that's a nice mention of family on his part, but they don't do anything with it.

not saying havok should be in this, but a flashback with his brother would have been nice

 

[Mdizzle]

I think any expansion on Cykes would have been great. He was such a crucial character, yet one of the most underdeveloped, IMO.

Anyways, it's 3:53 here, I'm off to bed finally :P. Tonight was 10 million posts night.

I'm adding you both to my buddies list. Have a good nite you two!

 

[ntcrawler]

Haha, love the bit about Kitty and the first snow. Sooo true. People definitely did not react enough.

Cykes role was diminished over the course of the movies I believe...X2 he was less of a leader (yeah, he was abducted, but I guess there was the directorial decision there to keep him out a bit), and X3, well we all know what happens...booo.

Even the decision to have Xav suggest Storm in place of Scott as headmaster? Definitely pushing Scott out.

In X2 he was a victim. They had all the characters draw straws to see who would get kidnapped and brainwashed, and Cyclops drew the short straw for that ep. It's only fair, just like Jean got to be the one slimed by Toad in X1. But if you're gonna use the PHoenix storyline, then what batter way to give a character like Cyclops the chance to shine? And once again show his leadership in directing a battle? After all, You can't have Juliet without her Romeo. Er, yes you can. In this version, Juliet kills Romeo during the balcony scene and then Mercutio takes his place.

X3 is bad because it also negates alot of the foreshadowing set up in the first 2 films. For example, that scene between Charles and Eric towards the end:

1. "The War is coming Charles"
"And I intend to be there, old friend"

Whoops! Sorry Charles, you got killed off and had to miss this one

2. The exchanges between Scott and Charles, Scott looking over a comatose Charles, and Charles talking about Cyclops' role, that if something should ever happen to him, Cyclops would be the heir apparent. Whoops! But Scott was the first to go. So there goes that idea

3. The whole concept behind the Phoenix. Even that last scene where Charles suddenly looks out the window as if something is calling him and comments that "oh, I think everything's going to be all right". Implying that Jean will be back and that things are most likely going to be good again.

Um no that didn't work out either. How does Charles react to Jean's resurrection? You can sum it up as follows: "OMG we're all doomed! We're all going to die!!!".

The first two movies further imply that something happened to Jean when she first used Cerebro. Most likely either that started bringing down the mental blocks, or something entered her that wasn't there before. The fires in her eyes and the flames effect further hint at the nature of how the Phoenix's power works. The power fully manifests itself when she heorically sacrifices herself to save everyone, and in that moment of her death as the panic sets in she unleashes all her power, which in turn is what saves her. Yet in X3 it turns out to be just an alternate persona put down by years of mental blocks and it just happened to call itself the Phoenix for no reason. The same person that sacrificed heself to save everyone now has pent up issues and secret desires, which basically involves levelling whole towns and killing everyone, starting with the person she loves and trusts the most...

[shakes head]

 

[ms.vix]

Haha, love the bit about Kitty and the first snow. Sooo true. People definitely did not react enough.

Cykes role was diminished over the course of the movies I believe...X2 he was less of a leader (yeah, he was abducted, but I guess there was the directorial decision there to keep him out a bit), and X3, well we all know what happens...booo.

Even the decision to have Xav suggest Storm in place of Scott as headmaster? Definitely pushing Scott out.

the first thing I thot of when I heard X-3 was being produced (honest to everything holy), I thought; "WOW! Phoenix! Cool!" and I was happy that Cyclops would get to shine! At least Storm had something to do in X2, she had a forming relationship with nightcralwer and even saved the darn day! (for which I am glad)

X-3 is for Cyclops and Jean!

Charles, I'm disappointed in you for giving up on your student, your son!

The whole movie was set up from beginning to end, that part where xavier told storm he wanted her to run the school? I knew then the fates of Cyclops and Xavier. Such a giveaway.

 

[ntcrawler]

I think any expansion on Cykes would have been great. He was such a crucial character, yet one of the most underdeveloped, IMO.

Anyways, it's 3:53 here, I'm off to bed finally :P. Tonight was 10 million posts night.

I'm adding you both to my buddies list. Have a good nite you two!

ONe flashback I'd start out with would be a quick scene showing how Scott was first introduced to Jean, whether a group lunch, shaking hands with his new lab partner, or catching her rummaging for ice cream at 3 AM. Use that on top of the scene where we learn how Charles first meets her.

Don't lose all hope though, you never know what the future holds. After all, there wasn't supposed to be a sequel to X1 but we got that.

Nice chatting with you all, have a good evil-free night!

 

[ntcrawler]

The whole movie was set up from beginning to end, that part where xavier told storm he wanted her to run the school? I knew then the fates of Cyclops and Xavier. Such a giveaway.

It was but I think you're downplaying it just a bit. The whole movie was set up from the start to have those characters killed off, no matter what. That is why the movie took up this feeling, of impending, unavoidable doom. 1/2 the situations presented there could have been avoided or were completely ridiculous to begin with, but were kept there for the sake of completing the plot, which again was there so that certain characters would be killed off. It's like reading a mystery novel backwards. Or in this case, writing it backwards. You want so and so to die, so you arrange for the rest of the film to lead up to their deaths, no matter how preposterous or impossible the scenario. This is NOT an example of good storytelling! This is an example of killing of chars for the heck of it to boost audience shock.

 

[ms.vix]

ntcrawler, Mdizzle, you two are best!

Like you said, Xavier looked out the window in X2 and smiled...

Jean should have come back her "normal" self, and only begin to remember the trauma and thus become slightly--more "off her rocker" than usual.

I'm Christian, resurrection in my faith is a BIG deal, I don't feel like Xavier, Storm, or Logan understands that. It was more of a "How???" and then a "Well, okay!".

now i feel like I'm just nit-picking.

But you're right, Brett said he followed Singer's route (at least I think he did), but then he breached away from all the points that Singer was building up.

All of it went back to X-1, when Jean used Cerebro, and if Singer would have in fact killed off Xavier in X-3, he would have given leadership to Scott.

ALSO: NEVER DO TWO MAJOR THEMES IN ONE SHORT MOVIE!!! why couldn't they hold off on the cure for X-4? trilogies are overated anyway, X-4 should have been the Cure theme, not X-3. It took away too much from the legendary Phoenix saga.

 

[Mdizzle]

Yeah, there wasn't enough emphasis on holy snickies, she's ALIVE. She DIED in X2.

X3 deviated a lot from what Singer set up, as you both mentioned. Charles' exchange with Magneto....there's a lot of elements.

I remember reading somewhere where they said that "the Phoenix saga will not be the focus of X3". Hmm, righhtt. It's difficult to really give it the explanation and the credit it deserves if it's overshadowed by this race to the final battle, introducing a bunch of random mutants with half-a-liner, and also this cure business that must be dealt with.

Ack. Once again, I'm Kitty. Instead of "thinking of the first snow", I'm lamenting Scott, the Professor, and if not Jean. Maybe in the course of my mourning I discover that we are all so vulnerable, and find the urge to have someone by my side...as Scott had waited for Jean. So now I lean towards Bobby, and for some other reasons than I haven't seen the snow and wanna go skating, I try and put the moves on him.

Like I said before, I phase into his room, then I phase out of my clothes.
Simple like that.

 

[ms.vix]

you hit the kitty thing right on the dot! That's a great reason why she'd turn to Bobby, (poor Colossus ain't gettin' no action in this movie ). I'm rooting for you Mdizzle, you'll make a kick-ass Kitty!

Did you like the whole element of having the "Big War" on Alcatraz?

Even in the novel, Claremont pointed out the fact that Alcatraz was not only historic for its inmates, but also for movie producers who want the "best scenery" for which to film their movie. (I'm still wondering if Chris was making fun of them for it or not)

I feel like Brett or the writers (or both), got it into their heads that Magneto moving the Golden Gate Bridge would be really cool, (which to be fair, was ), and so they took the pains to find out a way how they could fit that in. That's choppy writing.

Moving the scene from NY and Alkali Lake ALL the way over to the West Coast was weird.

Also; Wolverine, Beast, Storm, Kitty, Colossus and Iceman facing off with hundreds (I'm guessing) of mutants was kind of sad in my book. Can't even count Angel!

Sorry this post is taking long, but I have ONE more thing to say about Rogue:

Why didn't the writers use their imaginations and include Rogue in the final battle? People say she's helpless because she has to be up close to someone to use her ability. This would have been a perfect moment for her and Kitty to team up and patch their relationship-- let bygones be bygones! It would also have been a great moment to show how the X-Men team up with each other, even if they don't particularly like each another.

I can't remember Rogue or Kitty speaking to each other at all! Remind me if they did, please

 

[javon]

I say blame the writers...

 

[ntcrawler]

I feel like Brett or the writers (or both), got it into their heads that Magneto moving the Golden Gate Bridge would be really cool, (which to be fair, was ), and so they took the pains to find out a way how they could fit that in. That's choppy writing.

Moving the scene from NY and Alkali Lake ALL the way over to the West Coast was weird.

Also; Wolverine, Beast, Storm, Kitty, Colossus and Iceman facing off with hundreds (I'm guessing) of mutants was kind of sad in my book. Can't even count Angel!

Sorry this post is taking long, but I have ONE more thing to say about Rogue:

Why didn't the writers use their imaginations and include Rogue in the final battle? People say she's helpless because she has to be up close to someone to use her ability. This would have been a perfect moment for her and Kitty to team up and patch their relationship-- let bygones be bygones! It would also have been a great moment to show how the X-Men team up with each other, even if they don't particularly like each another.

I can't remember Rogue or Kitty speaking to each other at all! Remind me if they did, please

1. Regarding the Golden Gate Bridge: that would have been a very effective psychological tactice. Aka the "holy s**T!" tactic. when the Worthington Labs garrison realizes they're facing off against someone who just moved an entire bridge, that would certainly make them pee in their pants and run away. Until you realize one slight flaw: the Golden Gate bridge's span between towers is about 0.8 miles, and from land to land it's about 1.1 miles. Alcatraz on the other hand, is 1.2 miles from shore. Can you say "d'oh!!!"? Also, being a suspension bridge, the roadway cannot support itself. that's why you have towers and all those cables. Just dropping it like that would make it collapse upon its own weight and into the sea. Another Homer Simpson "d'oh!" moment, but I suppose these are just little nitpicks

2. Regarding Alkali Lake: It turns out that Alkali Lake is actually on the west coast and not the east coast. It's supposed to border with Alberta, and not Ontario. Which actually makes things both interesting and complicated. For one thing, Scott's gotta be pretty dedicated to ride cross country like that after his girl and to arrive there looking as clean (and his bike so shiny and free of road grime and bugs) as it is. It also seems that the team is able to cross that distance pretty quickly. Yes I know their blackbird is supersonic, but a 3000 mile journey shouldn't be treated as a drive around the block.

3. It was a pretty heroic stand. 6 against hundreds. But also kinda sad at the same time. They seemed to be really scraping the bottom of the barrel for this fight. Not that those present weren't talented, but don't the X-Men have any other allies at their disposal?

4. The whole concept behind the Cure, and about Leach. To be honest, I'm surprised it was that big of a deal to have Magneto get his hands on Leech. If he had killed Leach it almost would have made things simpler for everyone, instead of letting the government militarize the serum and then force its injection on everyone.
After all, while this is going on the X-Menhave an all-powerful telepath who's gone psycho on them and running loose. If Jean was as big of a threat as she was made out to me, I'd just as soon go after her instead. What's a cure compared to a woman who can potentially level entire cities? It just seems like they overblew the importance of the cure. Yes it had strong moral and political ramifications, but nowhere was it as big of a threat as the Phoenix was.

 

[ntcrawler]

I say blame the writers...

I would too, except with this movie it's clear that studio politics actually managed to interfere with the film's plot.

 

[CapBeerCino]

I think the reason I hate that confrontation is because it was too much like Sue Storm and Dr. Doom.
DD: "Sue, let's not fight."
IW: "No; Let's." grunts.

There was a lot of:

"I was passing through"
"So pass through!"

"You don't want to be here!"
"No you don't want to be here" (or what-ever that was)

I had more but (thank god) I'm beginning to forget x-3

Anyhoo - what was up with the dialogue? When the actors failed to deliver lines with grace didn't Ratner get a clue?

 

[MaleRogue]

Three are responsible..
Fox
Writers
And that stupid daughter of ... (forgot his name)

 

[ntcrawler]

Three are responsible..
Fox
Writers
And that stupid daughter of ... (forgot his name)

What? Rothman? What did the chairman's daughter have to do with the outcome of this film? SPEAK!

 

[MaleRogue]

She did not want the kissing scene's of Bobby/Kitty and Rogue in it...
That is why we did not have the big love triangel thing

 

[ms.vix]

Originally posted by ntcrawler:
2. Regarding Alkali Lake: It turns out that Alkali Lake is actually on the west coast and not the east coast. It's supposed to border with Alberta, and not Ontario.

oops, I'm blushing . Well, teaches me for not getting my facts straight. I was always under the impression that if you head north from NY, Alkali Lake was somewhere up in Canada.

Two major plot lines like the Cure and the Phoenix should not be put into one movie, they're both too important!

I'd agree, Magneto's got nothing on Phoenix, she's the primary threat. He can manipulate the matter metal, she can manipulate the matter of everything.

Magneto is a killer, the two stories established that before with Rogue and Xavier. But with X-3, I think Magneto's intelligence took a dive when he witnessed Jean Grey kill his "old friend" and still wanted to strike up a friendship with her. Duh! Didn't he start getting a clue that Jeannie was slightly "off" when she toyed with him in the forest with the cure darts? Mags! If you're gonna be evil, at least be smart about it!!

If Storm, and Wolverine are so against the Cure, why did these hypocrites end up using it on another mutant? That was out of place, I was sorely disappointed with this. It's not that I'm mad that Magneto was cured, I'm mad that the X-Men would fall from their own outstanding moral statements and choose to use the means which they despise beyond hate, and end up using the cure on a fellow mutant.

Sorry for nitpicking again...

I'll say something positive now. hm... uh... the special effects were good. yeah, that's it. 'cept I don't go to watch a movie for special effects. darn.

 

[CapBeerCino]

I'm Christian, resurrection in my faith is a BIG deal, I don't feel like Xavier, Storm, or Logan understands that. It was more of a "How???" and then a "Well, okay!".

now i feel like I'm just nit-picking.

No you're not!

It was: white light, Jean Grey standing on a rock, "Scott?", "Jean?", take off glasses (like Scott would ever risk that - most oc writing eva!) kiss, death.

You call that resurrection!?

People waited 3 years to see her rise and how would the team react!
Spent your $210 wisely and make "Phoenix rising" as memorable as NightCrawler at the white house, or Spiderman kissing MJ up side down!

It just kills me- Jean rise from the dead after making the noble choice of sacrificing herself to save the team- only to kill two x-men then be killed herself?

Why was x-3 made? x-2 wrapped up the story 10 times better!

ntcrawler, Mdizzle, ms.vix - I had such a good time reading you guys! I just watched Halle Berry on Dave Letterman and came on-line cause I was really pissed, but reading you helped!

 

[ms.vix]

I don't have a dirty mind so don't take this the wrong way; but how is it that Jean died and came back wearing a spankin' brand new X-Uniform without even cuts or tears? (this has been broght up numerous times, I know)
She resurrected in style, baby! (sarcasm)
But then if she can put her own molecules back together to come back from the dead, then I'm sure she can do it for her uniform also. so fudge my first thought....

Singer had Jean's eyes glowing red with a fiery effect, we even see it when she's about to be consumed by a ton of lake water, there was a fire like substance surrounding her! And not to mention the Phoenix effect gliding over the lake!

Where did that Phoenix go? Cuz in X-3 all I saw was Satan's baby girl!

BTW, Ratner's budget was only so big before he gave it all to Mags, Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, Arclight, Callisto, Quill etc... forget the rising of the Phoenix effects! We're moving the Golden Gate Bridge ladies and gents! LoL!