whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

[Majik1387]

I believe I read yours, that's why I mentioned it here. Having seen the rest of the teams half-hearted attempt to search and find out what happened to Scott, it's nice to know he has a brother who doesn't give up so easily

I don't see how, it's not online.
At least not yet.

Yeah that's the reason I want him in X4.

 

[ntcrawler]

I don't see how, it's not online.
At least not yet.

Yeah that's the reason I want him in X4.

I have special powers I might be thinking of Bishop2's fanfic then, he sees events happening along a similar line, aka Havoc's involvement.

 

[ms.vix]

I've been looking for some good X-Movieverse fanfic, I've been to XMFF and a couple others, but they haven't been updated in awhile. Can any of you give me some sites you frequent?

 

[ms.vix]

thanks for the compliment, Majik1387. I thot my little fic there was lame, but I had a point, at least

post your fic online! I wanna see!

 

[ntcrawler]

... I knew he wasn't dead! haha. Do you think they'll bring her back if they have an X4? I don't know how well things would go, it would be like X3 all over again, what with another resurrection.

It's not impossible. The question is if there is an X4, would they want to do this badly enough. No doubt the cast members would be thrilled about the idea. James and Famke both seemed a bit disappointed to have their chars "killed off" without getting a chance to explore them further.
The trick and challenge would be to do it in a way that's convincing and not cheesy. Something that the audience would look forward to and not be disappointed with (again). so you wouldn't want to do it too early in the film. Obviously Scott's predicament is easier to work out. With Jean it depends on how you handle the nature of her powers and of the Phoenix. You want it to be both believable and dramatic. If it's just POOF she's back, it would be weak and turn the franchise into an 80's B-film. If she keeps reappearing every time she's killed, then it takes away the whole meaning of what death and resurrection are supposed to be. X-Men is supposed to be intense and suspenseful, letting you feel the same danger and tension as the characters. So you want to do it right. Unfortunately, the way the events in X3 are portrayed, that won't make it easy. Not impossible though, just not easy.

 

[ntcrawler]

Clearly there was some sarcasm in that. Understand, I'm not a Storm or Wolverine hater, just a frustrated X-Men fan.

Ms Vix, that's some great dialogue here. Silly or not, it gets the point across beautifully

I like your idea of a flashback, ntcrawler, Scott and Jean meeting for the first time would have given us something personal, not to mention show how Cyclops' death was a BIG deal.

That's "death", not death . It's just weird how they set up everyone's reaction to Scott's death. The lack of mourning, acceptance, etc seems like they were in denial. Which would be understandable. Not so much "I can't believe he's dead", but more like "How could he possibly have died?". But of course, they don't follow up with it or make any attempt to look for him or follow up on it. Wasn't the dialogue with Jean something like this?

Logan: "Jean, what happened to Scott?"
Jean: "Scott... oh God.... [starts withdrawing and becoming hysterical]

That's just too vague IMHO. I can see why Jean would react like that, but for them to come to that conclusion just isn't right. No body + Jean being confused = clear evidence that Scott's dead, that obviously she vaporized him. I just can't accept that.

There's a lot of people who don't like Scott because he's a tight-ass, a man in control. Wolverine is a loose cannon, and nowadays that's the "in-thing", which is fine.

Someone doesn't have to be a lovable nice guy to be the leader, just good at what he does. The ability to get everyone out alive from a tight situation is more important than being a nice guy. It works in the military, and I can see his teammates realizing that. After all, Charles didn't choose Scott by drawing straws.
And that's this part about Cyclops that makes him more interesting. During quiet times he can be a bit geeky and insecure, but when the crap hits the fat he flips the switch to Combat Mode and takes on a whole new persona. The opposite of Jean. During normal times she's the competent, confident physician and scientist, but during Combat she turns to Cyclops for guidance. It's beautiful how they complement each other like that.

PS Arclight being a man joke was really funny. Kudos to ya!

That is one... strange looking woman.

 

[ms.vix]

ntcrawler
Ms Vix, that's some great dialogue here. Silly or not, it gets the point across beautifully

Thanks (ego is swelling)

Sorry, I forgot in this case "death" is not death. He's out there
somewhere...

I like what you said about Jean and Scott complementing each other. I noticed in battle she is unsure of herself, like Xavier said in X-2; "she always felt like she was, in someway, left behind" (or something to the effect), and she really did lean on Scott.

My interpertation of the Phoenix is Jean's desire to excel and be useful to the team, and that using Cerebro unlocked her concealed power. Mentally, she couldn't fight it, and knew that it was better to die at Alkali Lake then to lose complete control. I know there are hundreds of interperations which are better than that, but it's all I got for now

Scott was the key to brining her back, so he should have been the key to ending it all (and not by killing her).

What the writers were going for was; "Scott can't do the dirty deed, but Wolverine can". sigh.



Mdizzle^^ having that last scene with Mags and the chess pieces was good I think. You get a sense of his vulnerability as a human, and it also sets things up nicely, seeing as he still has some magnetic control. Curing Jean would be interesting too, at that time she would really be able to reflect on what's happened, and really mourn the loss of Scott ("oh god what have I done?"), etc.



That is a highlight, thanks for the ray of sunshine
Mags has realized what he's done, and is ready to turn over a new leaf. It would be cool to see him as an ally to the X-Men then just always portrayed as the bad guy. In the end he's a fragile old man

Mags is good, way--way--way deep down inside...somewhere....

 

[tonytr1687]

Why do ppl keep thinking it was Cerebro that broke the mind blocks? Singer said it himself that it was Magneto's machine.

 

[ms.vix]

Why do ppl keep thinking it was Cerebro that broke the mind blocks? Singer said it himself that it was Magneto's machine.

hmm... i would not agree with Singer on this. All Jean did was use her tek to lift Logan up to the statue's torch, that might be a strain, but nothing I can see as bringing out her little Phoenix persona.

Cerebro makes more sense in the long run. From the way she responded after using it, it looked like her mind had been brutally assaulted. She looked dazed and confused, not to mention wounded. something wasn't right with her.

Another thing to consider; why make a big deal out of Jean not being able to use Cerebro? Why was it important to present to the audience that it was dangerous to use it? It would seem silly to me to just throw that in there without purpose, if in fact her "mental blocks" did only beginn to fail as a result of her lifting somebody into the air.

Nah, even if the director said that, I still don't buy it.

 

[Mdizzle]

Mags, oh don't even get me started . I watched X1 yesterday and yeah...in his own way he sees himself as a sort of noble badguy...he seemed genuinely surprised when Storm told him Senator kelly died dued to the effects of his machine (which would indicate that his intent wasn't to necessarily KILL people...but of course to make them mutants).

I liked the scene with Jean not being able to use Cerebro...to me it was an indication of her control of her powers; at that point in X1, she had "limited" control over her powers as opposed to X3 where the beast is unleashed. X1, she was pretty limited as to fighting back against Toad (cmon, if i had TK, I'd be tossing sh** at him, or even tossing HIM around). X2, the professor even indicated that Jean had always been tentative about her powers...and during the xjet scene with the missiles, you can see that she's just sort of beginning to grow into her powers. I think the scene with Cerebro was just a way of demonstrating where the limits she'd placed in terms of her powers ("I'm telekinetic...I can move things...all sort of things. I also have some telepathic abilities...although no where near as powerful as the professor.")

 

[ms.vix]

Mags, oh don't even get me started . I watched X1 yesterday and yeah...in his own way he sees himself as a sort of noble badguy...he seemed genuinely surprised when Storm told him Senator kelly died dued to the effects of his machine (which would indicate that his intent wasn't to necessarily KILL people...but of course to make them mutants).

I liked the scene with Jean not being able to use Cerebro...to me it was an indication of her control of her powers; at that point in X1, she had "limited" control over her powers as opposed to X3 where the beast is unleashed. X1, she was pretty limited as to fighting back against Toad (cmon, if i had TK, I'd be tossing sh** at him, or even tossing HIM around). X2, the professor even indicated that Jean had always been tentative about her powers...and during the xjet scene with the missiles, you can see that she's just sort of beginning to grow into her powers. I think the scene with Cerebro was just a way of demonstrating where the limits she'd placed in terms of her powers ("I'm telekinetic...I can move things...all sort of things. I also have some telepathic abilities...although no where near as powerful as the professor.")

In our new movie we're going to match up Jean Grey and Toad again, this time she'll make Toad b**ch slap himself, putting her tek to some use

And Storm and Sabretooth also get a re-match! Only this time Storm will ask the Big Kitty to scream for her. twisted.

Yeah, Mags looked almost alarmed (almost) when Storm told him Kelly was dead. He honestly didn't want that to be true, but hardened himself to believe in his "own little reality". But the meanie was still going to kill Rogue!

 

[borinquenknight]

Gender isn't important. After all, they got a man to play Arclight

LOL! Thanks atleast I wasn't the only one to notice.

 

[tonytr1687]

hmm... i would not agree with Singer on this. All Jean did was use her tek to lift Logan up to the statue's torch, that might be a strain, but nothing I can see as bringing out her little Phoenix persona.

Cerebro makes more sense in the long run. From the way she responded after using it, it looked like her mind had been brutally assaulted. She looked dazed and confused, not to mention wounded. something wasn't right with her.

Another thing to consider; why make a big deal out of Jean not being able to use Cerebro? Why was it important to present to the audience that it was dangerous to use it? It would seem silly to me to just throw that in there without purpose, if in fact her "mental blocks" did only beginn to fail as a result of her lifting somebody into the air.

Nah, even if the director said that, I still don't buy it.

Theres no agreeing or disagreeing. Singer intended that it was the energy from Magneto's machine which broken the barriers in Jean's mind and gradually unleashed the Phoenix. Cerebro may have helped, but Singer's intention was that Magneto's machine was the cause. There was even a line in X2 where Cyclops says to her "ever since Liberty Island you've been different." There is no interpretation. It's practically stated as a fact in the overall arc through the three movies, or at least in the first two since X3 doesnt really follow up on it.

 

[ntcrawler]

The title of X3 was deceptive, or at least executed wrong. The heroes shouldn't have made their Last Stand so much against Magneto, as it should have been a Last Stand FOR Jean.

 

[chaseter]

^Cause he ditched the masterpiece he started. Singer should be on the list. Had he not jumped ships to SR...X3 would have went on as planned and been a masterpiece.

 

[ntcrawler]

^Cause he ditched the masterpiece he started. Singer should be on the list. Had he not jumped ships to SR...X3 would have went on as planned and been a masterpiece.

Seems he didn't have much choice though. How long can you as a director afford to wait for a studio to sign you up? He waited over a year. The release date was already set, but production didn't stand. They were twiddling their thumbs and giving him the runaround. SONY didn't wait to make arrangements with Sam Raimi for the next installment. NewLine cinema signed up Peter Jackson for all 3 films at once. The guy has to eat, he has to work, he wants to direct, he needs to direct something.

 

[chaseter]

Seems he didn't have much choice though. How long can you as a director afford to wait for a studio to sign you up? He waited over a year. The release date was already set, but production didn't stand. They were twiddling their thumbs and giving him the runaround. SONY didn't wait to make arrangements with Sam Raimi for the next installment. NewLine cinema signed up Peter Jackson for all 3 films at once. The guy has to eat, he has to work, he wants to direct, he needs to direct something.

I am not saying it is all Singer's fault...It unltimately lies with Fox and I am pissed at Fox for this. But Singer should take part of the blame.

 

[ms.vix]

Singer wanted to direct X-3, I can't blame him for Fox's politics.

I will blame Fox for hiring X-3's writers and yes, Brett Ratner.

I wonder how Matthew Vaughn would have handled it? I was upset when I heard he left the film. At least this guy has experience with directing a crap load of characters on screen.

Didn't Josh Whedon also want the job?

But my only point is; I'm sad Singer left, but I don't hate him for it.

 

[Hulkster]

The blame goes on Fox.

 

[borinquenknight]

Singer wanted to direct X-3, I can't blame him for Fox's politics.

I will blame Fox for hiring X-3's writers and yes, Brett Ratner.

I wonder how Matthew Vaughn would have handled it? I was upset when I heard he left the film. At least this guy has experience with directing a crap load of characters on screen.



Didn't Josh Whedon also want the job?

But my only point is; I'm sad Singer left, but I don't hate him for it.

I know what you mean. I kind of feel like Superman Returns benefitted from the quality X3 should've received. And yet Superman fans are ripping Singer apart. Not all of them but their boards are being brutal.

 

[WorthyStevens]

I know what you mean. I kind of feel like Superman Returns benefitted from the quality X3 should've received. And yet Superman fans are ripping Singer apart. Not all of them but their boards are being brutal.

What's funny is that most of them would agree that X1 and X2 were amazing. But when Singer takes over Superman...

 

[borinquenknight]

What's funny is that most of them would agree that X1 and X2 were amazing. But when Singer takes over Superman...

I know. Its not cool at all. Now what are we supposed to espect? So then WB could probably justify the same team that spit out X3 for Superman Returns Again...

 

[ntcrawler]

There's something else that's been bothering me. i'm not quite sure who to blame so I'll let you guys decide:

Going back to X1, if you watch the cast and crew interviews they repeatedly talk about that the most important selling points behind a series like the X-men are not the action and special effects (although there will be plenty and they'll look awsome) but it's the character dramas. That X-men's most endearing quality is the characters, their relationships, their backgrounds, how they interact with each other. It's in fact one of the main reasons why the cast got hooked on this, and that just seeing these characters brought to life will be one of the best parts about this film.

Agreed?

Well then something must have taken a nosedive by the time we get to X3, because in alot of printed material and articles promoting the film, the most important selling point I keep seeing is not the suspense and drama of love, sacrifice and redemption that the Phoenix saga is, but instead it's the "really cool effects you'll see us do with the Golden Gate Bridge".



This is supposed to be one of their main selling points? Cool CGI effects in one scene? What the hell?

 

[flavio_lebeau]

that ggb scene had no purpose at all...they should make jean telekinetically send everyone to alcatraz, thus saving LOTS of money for phoenix effects, etc...the movie should be at least 30 minutes longer too.
Its a good movie, but the "what if" factor kills me inside...
i still remember the happy days in this board until the fatidical "the movie is 103 minutes" rumor. It went downhill since, and the worst part is that all the fears got confirmed

 

[Cho Chang]

FOX for hiring the writers and rushing production