whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

[DarknessOfDeath]

Fox is mainly to blame and the writers are partly to blame, as for ratner, he was just the director doing his job.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Ratner seems to be somebody who wants to do BOOM everything he touches. He wins my vote.

 

[ntcrawler]

Ratner seems to be somebody who wants to do BOOM everything he touches. He wins my vote.

Yeah I'd have to agree with here. The criitial selling points touted by the first two films were their characters, their relationships, and how they develop. That was Singer's style and that's also what appealed to the cast. Ratner prefers to have everyone fight and make things go BOOM.

Jean: "Scott, I need someone to talk to. Something's troubling me and I'm scared."

Scott: "Not now Jean, we need to take part in a humongous street battle with lots of flames and explosions"

 

[Mdizzle]

You know what? I watched X1 a couple days ago, reliving the experience, and I'm definitely going to change my vote towards the writing. X1 had a lot of snappy moments: Logan's many exchanges with Scott, which really stand out in my mind.
"I'm not the one who gave the train station a new sunroof"
"Yeah well you're the reason she left in the first place."
"Well why don't you take your little mission and shove it up your–"
Storm bursts in at choice moment: "Senator Kelly is dead."

Or even: "Someone's here...I just can't see 'em. Keep your eye open" (to Cyke)

The dialogue, to me, seemed wayyy more characteristic of Wolverine, or of a wolvie/scott exchange.

Also, Magneto's speeches carry more weight in the 1st, for sure, and I'm a big Mags fan as it is .

Too bad the writing in the first didn't translate into that of the third.

 

[Mdizzle]

^^sorry, a bit off topic of what you guys were talking about. But yeah, I agree with what's been said about Singer's developed style vs. Ratner's crash bang boom. That's prolly why x3 felt so rushed...and like he just crammed a million characters and ideas in. There was a lot more smooth progression between the first and the second. Especially in terms of JEan and the other notable characters, plus the development of the Jean/logan relationship was way more believable too. All of a sudden however, it goes to X3 where, "omg i'll do anything for you, I love you, even though I've only really known you for a few weeks maybe (don't quote me on that one)". I think someone mentioned that in another thread...Wolverine dying for Jean and doing all that seemed wayyy out of place for where there relationship had previously been and grown to the previous movies...a huge jump, just didnt really seem credible IMO.

 

[Theweepeople]

^^I think someone mentioned that in another thread...Wolverine dying for Jean and doing all that seemed wayyy out of place for where there relationship had previously been and grown to the previous movies...a huge jump, just didnt really seem credible IMO.

What I found to be even more incredible was Wolverine's statement to Jean before he kills her? "I would die for you" right before he sticks his claws into her. That has to be one of the most hokey lines of dialogue I've heard in a comic book film.

 

[ms.vix]

What I found to be even more incredible was Wolverine's statement to Jean before he kills her? "I would die for you" right before he sticks his claws into her. That has to be one of the most hokey lines of dialogue I've heard in a comic book film.

LoL

Especially considering the fact that he killed her rather die himself, the Phoenix has got to appreciate the irony! It should have gone like this;

Phoenix: You would die for them?
Wolverine: No, not for them, and sure as hell not for you, lady! (snikt)

PS. not true, Logan risked his life to save Rogue. To tell her that he was only willing to die for her is a bit...off. In my opinion of course

 

[CapBeerCino]

PS. not true, Logan risked his life to save Rogue.

Haha! I wonder if they ever watched the first two films.

(or even the third one for that matter- Mags love/hate for Charles was inconsistent from one scene to the other. While the first two established mutual respect, here we get "he did more for mutants than any other" followed by his quip "Charles always wanted to built bridges")

 

[ms.vix]

Haha! I wonder if they ever watched the first two films.

(or even the third one for that matter- Mags love/hate for Charles was inconsistent from one scene to the other. While the first two established mutual respect, here we get "he did more for mutants than any other" followed by his quip "Charles always wanted to built bridges")

ugh... yeah.

Although, in X-2 Erik was willing to sacrifice Charles, (even said a heart felt "goodbye" to his old friend), but it still showed that there was a history of friendship between them, not completely lost.

Looking at X-3, you'd think Charles and Erik had been mortal enemies since the beginning! Completely done all wrong.

 

[Majik1387]

ugh... yeah.

Although, in X-2 Erik was willing to sacrifice Charles, (even said a heart felt "goodbye" to his old friend), but it still showed that there was a history of friendship between them, not completely lost.

Looking at X-3, you'd think Charles and Erik had been mortal enemies since the beginning! Completely done all wrong.

In X-2, Magneto didn't know the base would end up getting submerged or torn apart so he wasn't willing to sacrifice Charles. The "goodbye" was most probably for Erik not helping him but using him to get his way.

I agree about X-3.

 

[ms.vix]

oops!

that's good to know, thanks Majik!

 

[CapBeerCino]

In X-2, Magneto didn't know the base would end up getting submerged or torn apart so he wasn't willing to sacrifice Charles. The "goodbye" was most probably for Erik not helping him but using him to get his way.

I never thought of that... Makes me wanna watch x-2 again.

 

[Majik1387]

^My work here is almost done.

 

[Spirit4ever]

I just hope lessons are learned and that they can combine the in depth characterization and authenticiy of the first two X-Men with some of the clever use of action, minus the moving of the bridge, which was the stupidest and most ridiculous part of that film, in the next movies. If creators wanted to, given the stories and characters they have to work with, can make an exhilerating movie that could appeal to all viewers.

 

[Mdizzle]

In X-2, Magneto didn't know the base would end up getting submerged or torn apart so he wasn't willing to sacrifice Charles. The "goodbye" was most probably for Erik not helping him but using him to get his way.

True. I think Mags/Charles' relationship is one of the most interesting one throughout the films. You wonder what would happen were they to go head to head...and yet, with opposing standpoints and attitudes about mutant liberty and empowerment and all that, still they never deem it appropriate to put a direct attempt on each other's life or really really harm each other (at least in the first 2 movies, I'm not commenting on X3). "Mutual respect" many of you have said, and I agree. I'll also say a thousand times, concerning Mags and the Brotherhood, "honour among thieves"...the brotherhood in a way was missing this sort of "loyalty" i believe in X3.

 

[Neto Magnus]

You know what? I watched X1 a couple days ago, reliving the experience, and I'm definitely going to change my vote towards the writing. X1 had a lot of snappy moments: Logan's many exchanges with Scott, which really stand out in my mind.
"I'm not the one who gave the train station a new sunroof"
"Yeah well you're the reason she left in the first place."
"Well why don't you take your little mission and shove it up your–"
Storm bursts in at choice moment: "Senator Kelly is dead."

Or even: "Someone's here...I just can't see 'em. Keep your eye open" (to Cyke)

The dialogue, to me, seemed wayyy more characteristic of Wolverine, or of a wolvie/scott exchange.

Also, Magneto's speeches carry more weight in the 1st, for sure, and I'm a big Mags fan as it is .

Too bad the writing in the first didn't translate into that of the third.

you said it, brother. I have a more appreciation for the first film after seeing the third. Not that i didn't like the first one. I mean we all know it had some problems but they all seem like nothing now.

 

[Mdizzle]

^^ yeah it's definitely more apparent now. Everything was more meaningful in terms of writing....bahh. I'll have to quote some more in the morning when I've had more sleep

 

[Mdizzle]

The writing was just generally more fluid. There were alot of almost comic moments, as mentioned above. mostly everything that came out in X3 appeared corny. Loved the tension b.w Scott and Logan in the 1st and even the 2nd as well. Mostly the 1st tho, oh yeah I just remembered:

"Wait! Guys, it's me. Let me prove it...you're a dick."
Cyke: "....Ok."

Great lines. Made me laugh.

 

[ntcrawler]

"Wait! Guys, it's me. Let me prove it...you're a dick."
Cyke: "....Ok."

It would be either that or "You know Jean still wants to take my shirt off", hehe

But you're right! Some really great lines and they fit in a whole lot better. Man, I miss those lines.

 

[La_She-Beast]

^Great lines and great scenes... the Nightcrawler attack against the President (w/ Mozart music ) was AMAZING as well as when Stryker attacks the school. And they have a meaning/intention to it. It's not just **** going around... *coughs*like the Golden Gate scene*coughs*. Or the Leech/Beast scene. It's an intro to Beast's desire of turning into a human again (if he ever has been one) but WTF? Where's the development?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Development in X3? You must be kidding. Even though i hold Fox mostly responsible for X-Men: The Last (and only) Disaster i do think Ratner and the writers are somewhat responsible as well. This was a collaberative ****-up IMO.

I knew when Ratner did an interview about four months before release saying he had a short attention span and he wanted the movie under two hours that he was gonna **** it up.

 

[Neto Magnus]

hey, onDgrind, can you put this in your first post?

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

has anyone sent that poster to Fox? someone should

 

[Neto Magnus]

I would print it out, frame it and mail it to the devil himself. But i don't have his address.

 

[onDgrind]

hey, onDgrind, can you put this in your first post?

how do i put that